PVB Tower Charts, Sales Date and more!!!

[mkatsy]

That would be one type, yes. They could decide not to rebuild a resort, or a section of the resort. Instead, take the instance payout, and owners of those units would get their share and not longer be owners.

But that would be better for all of us. Imagine if one of the costal properties experienced catastrophic flooding and had to be ripped down to the studs. During the (probably extensive) time that the property was out of commission, all of those points would shift to the other resorts without the ability to absorb any points. Better to pay out those owners and take the points out of circulation.

 

[Sandisw]

But that would be better for all of us. Imagine if one of the costal properties experienced catastrophic flooding and had to be ripped down to the studs. During the (probably extensive) time that the property was out of commission, all of those points would shift to the other resorts without the ability to absorb any points. Better to pay out those owners and take the points out of circulation.

There are specifics in the contract on ways to handle it when there are more points than rooms.

One example listed is they could allow owners of impacted units to use points at cash resorts instead and the cost is then issued to owners at that resort as a special fee…something like that.

But, the info just helps owners to understand things can happen that impacts ability to trade points into certain resorts.

 

[hockeydad21]

In this hypo, they're just going to flip the resorts and resell them as new contracts expiring in like 2092?

Yes, I would expect the points charts to be very much the same. Disney will capture their price increase because by then they'll be selling contracts for $400 per point. DVC inflation comes from price-per-point much more than points-per-night.

DVC doesn't work if the points charts are out of whack with one another. If "points charts inflation" were a thing, then we would be seeing loads of availability for Grand Floridian at 7 months and none for Old Key West and Saratoga Springs. The older resorts aren't cheaper because they're older, they're cheaper because they're less desirable.

ETA: I mentioned recently in another thread, there are some outliers. Boardwalk Standard View is too cheap. Old Key West is too cheap. The Bungalows are probably too expensive. But a Poly studio relative to a Saratoga Springs studio, for example, is in line with demand.

I think you’re missing the point. No one here is expecting OKW/SSR/BWV style points charts. Every resorts’ points charts make sense (for the most part) except for the new poly tower. Whether it’s location, year built, amenities, overall beauty of the resort/rooms, etc. we can all understand why certain resorts are priced the way they are with the points chart. PVB’s point chart is just pure greed.

Let’s look at VGF’s points chart since it’s very comparable to poly given the location and desirability - the lake view rooms are roughly only a 20% upcharge from the standard view rooms.

Same goes for the savannah views at AKL - a roughly 20%-25% upcharge from a standard view. Completely understandable.

Now consider the PVB theme park view rooms are roughly a 40%-48% up charge on points compared to the standard views! That’s a WILD increase. I feel like anyone paying that many points for theme park views, then it should come with club concierge access. Now compare the Moorea 2nd and 3rd floor lake/premier views (also theme park views but not listed that way) compared to the theme park view studios in the tower, and the points chart really starts to not make sense.

Maybe I’ll be wrong in all of this, but I just see this blowing up in DVC’s face with really upset PVB owners in a few years.

 

[CastAStone]

Now consider the PVB theme park view rooms are roughly a 40%-48% up charge on points compared to the standard views! That’s a WILD increase

The worst part is that when those rooms inevitably become some of the most common breakage on property, they’re only going to charge 5%-10% more in cash rates than they do for standard view.

 

[mkatsy]

I think you’re missing the point. No one here is expecting OKW/SSR/BWV style points charts. Every resorts’ points charts make sense (for the most part) except for the new poly tower. Whether it’s location, year built, amenities, overall beauty of the resort/rooms, etc. we can all understand why certain resorts are priced the way they are with the points chart. PVB’s point chart is just pure greed.

Let’s look at VGF’s points chart since it’s very comparable to poly given the location and desirability - the lake view rooms are roughly only a 20% upcharge from the standard view rooms.

Same goes for the savannah views at AKL - a roughly 20%-25% upcharge from a standard view. Completely understandable.

Now consider the PVB theme park view rooms are roughly a 40%-48% up charge on points compared to the standard views! That’s a WILD increase. I feel like anyone paying that many points for theme park views, then it should come with club concierge access. Now compare the Moorea 2nd and 3rd floor lake/premier views (also theme park views but not listed that way) compared to the theme park view studios in the tower, and the points chart really starts to not make sense.

Maybe I’ll be wrong in all of this, but I just see this blowing up in DVC’s face with really upset PVB owners in a few years.

The point chart would be a bit more palatable if you got priority seating at all of the dining and Trader Sam’s. Imagine paying all these points and then not getting a spot at the pool.

 

[Mouseforward]

At the end of the day, the longhouses are why I bought some at poly and they are the same points so I will hopefully be able to just ignore the tower and enjoy as usual.

 

[New Mouse]

The worst part is that when those rooms inevitably become some of the most common breakage on property, they’re only going to charge 5%-10% more in cash rates than they do for standard view.

That's part of the overall DVC strategy. Creating more breakage is a good thing for them. It's free money.

 

[New Mouse]

The point chart would be a bit more palatable if you got priority seating at all of the dining and Trader Sam’s. Imagine paying all these points and then not getting a spot at the pool.

And an hour long line for the monorail.

 

[New Mouse]

At the end of the day, the longhouses are why I bought some at poly and they are the same points so I will hopefully be able to just ignore the tower and enjoy as usual.

Other than that boatload of new priority points who are going to realize the tower is a ripoff.

 

[hockeydad21]

The point chart would be a bit more palatable if you got priority seating at all of the dining and Trader Sam’s. Imagine paying all these points and then not getting a spot at the pool.

Exactly! Give the people a little something to make it worthwhile other than just the view!

 

[Tatebeck]

It would be pretty nice if you got some sort of dining/lounge reservation availability advantage when staying at any of your home resorts

 

[Royal Consort]

Pigs get slaughtered.

I’ve seen this crap over and over. A business cuts too many corners or raises a price too high and it’s not that the market won’t bear it on paper, or even that there aren’t enough customers willing to pay, it’s that they lose the trust of their customers, and they start to see them as a bad partner to do business with.

Maximum profit extraction, in other words, can only work as a strategy for a period of time. It virtually never keeps working forever.

That’s what I mean by greedy. It’s fine to price high. It’s foolish to price to the point where your customers will eventually be upset when they’re continuously stuck with crappy overpriced TPV rooms.

A while ago I posted a thread about the Trust Thermocline model whereby a business continues to make anti-consumer decisions and then all of a sudden, customers precipitously abandon the product. I think Disney as a company is on this trajectory.

My personal gripe is less to do with the points and more to do with the Association. When we purchased Riviera it was explained to us that the DVC system was changing and restricted resorts were the future. We accepted this on good faith. I do not believe the company has acted in good faith to Riviera owners by a. Gaslighting and b. Not rescinding restrictions after opening 2 non-restriced products. Fool me once.

 

[Cabius]

The simplest explanation--and therefore IMO the most likely--is that the point values for studios in two of the views had already been determined, because they were rolling into an existing association. Once those values are set, the rest just sort of falls out using their "normal" point-allocation scheme.

That's mostly true, but there's a good bit of variance as well, and some notable exceptions in the PVB chart.

Compared to same-view Studio rates, PIT 1BRs are actually discounted relative to most DVC resorts.

A 1BR is usually a bit more than 2x the price of a studio. It varies by season, resort, and view -- some offer a better deal than PIT -- but the ratio of points needed to book a 1BR vs Studio is normally about 107%-109%. (BLT and AKV are outliers on the low end, and seasons 6 and 7 charge much lower premiums for 1BR vs Studio for whatever reason).

At PIT, 1BRs hover right around the 100% mark, which is within the normal range, but definitely on the lower end. But for TPV in particular, a 1BR is abnormally "cheap" compared to a Studio. If we were just looking at TPV rooms, it would be the cheapest upgrade from Studio to 1BR on property, edging out BLT.



On the other hand, 2BRs are priced just above average compared to Studios, which makes them abnormally expensive compared to 1BRs.

To take a concrete example from season 2:

• Upgrading from a TPV Studio to a TPV 1BR would cost you 80% more points, making it (I think) the cheapest S to 1BR upgrade in DVC.
• Upgrading from a TPV 1BR to a TPV 2BR would cost you another 52% more points, making it by far the most expensive 1BR to 2BR upgrade (excluding special units like the Cascade Cabins) -- the normal is about 33%.
• Upgrading from a TPV Studio to a TPV 2BR would cost 175% more points, which is basically average across DVC resorts. It's really just that 1BRs -- and especially TPV 1BRs -- are relatively discounted.

 

[Tatebeck]

That's mostly true, but there's a good bit of variance as well, and some notable exceptions in the PVB chart.

Compared to same-view Studio rates, PIT 1BRs are actually discounted relative to most DVC resorts.

I don't think it's so much that the 1BRs are getting a discount per se, it's just that they LOOK discounted compared to the overpriced PIT studios (especially TP view)

The Poly tower 1BRs bounce between the most or second most expensive (with VGF) for the standard and preferred views, but the added theme park views vs VGF will make the average point cost for a 1BR (as well as studios and 2BRs) easily the highest of any property.

They are just pricing the average cost for studios and 2BRs EVEN HIGHER compared to the 1BR because those rooms typically book faster. They are most likely finally noticing that the 1BRs are the last to book most of the time, so they are shifting points to the studios and 2BR to make their bookings more even. Which in general does make sense, as some of the other resorts' 1BRs do seem like they are priced to high. But in combination with the high starting point of Poly charts and how many "partial" views of things are going to push what should probably be standard/preferred views into preferred/theme park views to sell more points, it's not that great.

I would be much more excited if the 1BRs didn't average out to be the most expensive on property and they were just shifting points a bit into the studios and 2BRs, instead of them shifting the average much higher just because of "views"

 

[maui22]

Exactly! Give the people a little something to make it worthwhile other than just the view!

What is really bizarre to me is the pocket gardens apparently give everyone staying at the tower a theme park view an elevator and steps away. Similarly, everyone with theme park view can go to the pocket gardens on the monorail side to see the golfers and highway.

 

[AstroBlasters]

The best VGF villa view will probably be worse than the worst Poly villa TP view….

 

[hockeydad21]

The best VGF villa view will probably be worse than the worst Poly villa TP view….

While true, you're paying about 25%-30% more points to stay at PVB theme park view instead of the VGF lake view room where you may still have a view of the fireworks...

And comparing that to BLT's theme park view, it'll cost you about 47% more points to stay at a PVB theme park view vs the BLT theme park view....I hate BLT, but that points chart is looking really attractive right about now

 

[BrianLo]

I oddly had an obstructed theme park view from a standard resort studio at VGF.

Another fun fact, the PIT is perhaps the first resort that a standard 150p contract gets shut out of. Assuming the standard views are as rare as we think they are. They even get shut out of Duo Studios premium quite rapidly. They really need to push people towards 200 points (perhaps the goal with selling existing owners at least another 50-150 points).

I support that owner breakage will be quite high, in off seasons.

 

[New Mouse]

One other point about the TPV from a distance....as they go more and more towards projections, a TPV loses a l9t of its value to many guests.

 

[MyDogTink]

So, is the better investment to buy cheaper SAP (SSV) and book TP at tower than buy direct to participate in the PIT Hunger Games for SV at 11 months?