PVB Tower Charts, Sales Date and more!!!

[WinterSolider]

Isn’t the point of a business to maximize profit for shareholders? Charge as much as the market will bear? And any executive that won’t will eventually lose their job to one that will….

Why would we expect anything different?

Maximizing shareholder wealth in the long term is often different than maximizing profit in the short term.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Pigs get slaughtered.

I’ve seen this crap over and over. A business cuts too many corners or raises a price too high and it’s not that the market won’t bear it on paper, or even that there aren’t enough customers willing to pay, it’s that they lose the trust of their customers, and they start to see them as a bad partner to do business with.

Maximum profit extraction, in other words, can only work as a strategy for a period of time. It virtually never keeps working forever.

That’s what I mean by greedy. It’s fine to price high. It’s foolish to price to the point where your customers will eventually be upset when they’re continuously stuck with crappy overpriced TPV rooms.

Unless the rooms aren’t “crappy” and just expensive…. we shall see…

 

[AstroBlasters]

Maximizing shareholder wealth in the long term is often different than maximizing profit in the short term.

Agreed, but my experience has shown me that managers work based on this bonus cycle’s KPIs.

Do we really think points won’t sell because the TPV rooms are expensive?

 

[WinterSolider]

Agreed, but my experience has shown me that managers work based on this bonus cycle’s KPIs.

Without getting too deep into the details, I think you're over-estimating the sophistication of Disney's incentive comp structure.

Do we really think points won’t sell because the TPV rooms are expensive?

I think they'll sell to people thinking they'll be able to get the cheap rooms, and then people will get angry when they realize they can't.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Agreed, but my experience has shown me that managers work based on this bonus cycle’s KPIs.

Do we really think points won’t sell because the TPV rooms are expensive?

• These points will sell and will sell out, just like every other DVC resort eventually does.
• The TPV rooms will fill up, either with points or cash reservations.
• DVC operates on a zero-sum basis. The number of points in the system matches the availability of allocated space.
• Rooms requiring fewer points per night will always fill up first, and the pressure from professional renters will continue to increase as DVC makes "studios" more expensive.
• Increasing room point requirements increases the resort's overall points and, thus, profits to DVC. However, it also distributes operating costs (dues) across more points, which hopefully, to an extent, helps owners.
• Higher point charts are not a trend likely to stop with poly towers. If Reflections is built, I would expect similar point charts.

Edited to add: Hotels have often played fast and loose with room view designations, and Disney is no different. Room view categories are way overblown, and customers have placed too much emphasis on them, which hoteliers have used to their advantage in pricing.

 

[DVCsloth]

Yeah, I keep trying to talk myself into liking riveria. But I hate the location. It feels like a DVC expansion to a main resort without the main resort. And it’s right next to the moderate and value resorts feeling out of place.

Most of the other DVC resorts are part of a full fledged deluxe resort with fantastic amenities and top notch location with walking or monorail
to MK. The ones that don’t like OKW are built as vacation homes with a different feel but it’s also why I don’t stay there.

I’m sure if they ever build a restricted resort attached or walkable to a park it will sell very well

Resale restrictions are the biggest negative for Riviera for me. I think the resort and location are excellent. Ten-minute ride to Epcot Fifteen to HS. We have great access to BCV/BWV for restaurants as well as all of them at Epcot.

 

[snystedt]

Quick question, I have been traveling over the last week and am trying to catch up skimming through this thread.

When bookings start on the 15th can you do this online or will you need to call MS?

Thank you.

 

[WinterSolider]

Higher point charts are not a trend likely to stop with poly towers. If Reflections is built, I would expect similar point charts.

This has been debunked a million times.

There is no points chart inflation. Points chart differences across resorts are entirely explained by comparable cash price differences across resorts.

More recent properties have tended to be more expensive than older properties because they've been monorail and Skyliner, not because newer points charts are higher as a rule.

If Reflections is a "normal" DVC property with Studios, 1BR, 2BR, and 3BRGV, its points chart is going to look like Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge, not Poly.

 

[New Mouse]

If Reflections is a "normal" DVC property with Studios, 1BR, 2BR, and 3BRGV, its points chart is going to look like Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge, not Poly.

It would be a new resort with no cash equivalent. I'm not sure why you think it wouldn't be touted as the next Grand.

 

[hockeydad21]

I’m a big golf fan and if I had a room with a view of a course whether people are playing it or not would not be what it’s all about for me at all, unless we’re talking about overlooking a pro tournament which is clearly not the case here!

I’d enjoy the fact I can see something that gives me pleasure, even if I’ve never played the course but could relate to playing with family or friends, some of whom may no longer be here. In fact I’d probably spend most of my time looking at the course when most golfers aren’t even playing ie sunrise or sunset and then can just fully appreciate the beauty of them.

I’m with you, I’d love a golf course view too, but this one comes with a parking lot and busy road view to compliment it. Not exactly like it’s sitting on a golf course like many of the rooms at OKW.

 

[BeachClub2014]

This has been debunked a million times.

There is no points chart inflation. Points chart differences across resorts are entirely explained by comparable cash price differences across resorts.

More recent properties have tended to be more expensive than older properties because they've been monorail and Skyliner, not because newer points charts are higher as a rule.

If Reflections is a "normal" DVC property with Studios, 1BR, 2BR, and 3BRGV, its points chart is going to look like Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge, not Poly.

Well, you're certainly entitled to this opinion, and I definitely don't have the same million instances to argue my point as you do to debunk it. A million debunking instances is a lot.

Time will tell what the point charts for Reflections (assuming it gets built) look like, but I would be shocked if it's demonstrably lower than the more recent builds.

 

[WinterSolider]

It would be a new resort with no cash equivalent. I'm not sure why you think it wouldn't be touted as the next Grand.

Copper Creek opened 17 years after Boulder Ridge and the points charts are almost identical.

Points charts vary on location and transportation more than anything else. We know what "boat to Magic Kingdom but not on the monorail" points charts look like.

 

[WinterSolider]

Time will tell what the point charts for Reflections (assuming it gets built) look like, but I would be shocked if it's demonstrably lower than the more recent builds.

The most recent build is the cheapest 1 bedroom in the entire portfolio.

But I'm sure the cabins "don't count" right? They don't fit the narrative so they must be excluded.

 

[BeachClub2014]

The most recent build is the cheapest 1 bedroom in the entire portfolio.

But I'm sure the cabins "don't count" right? They don't fit the narrative so they must be excluded.

(without looking it up) Isn't OKW the cheapest 1-bedroom in the entire portfolio?

 

[MonkeyKnifeFight]

Copper Creek opened 17 years after Boulder Ridge and the points charts are almost identical.

Points charts vary on location and transportation more than anything else. We know what "boat to Magic Kingdom but not on the monorail" points charts look like.

But bay lake tower is a lot cheaper than both grand and poly. So it’s not just location. Copper creek couldn’t have higher points for rooms than boulder ridge since they were in the same resort most likely. I don’t know all the reasons they do points the way they are.

I feel like something changed between BLT and grand Floridian opening and DVD got the idea they could jack up point charts a lot

 

[BeachClub2014]

Copper Creek opened 17 years after Boulder Ridge and the points charts are almost identical.

Points charts vary on location and transportation more than anything else. We know what "boat to Magic Kingdom but not on the monorail" points charts look like.

So, hypothetically, in 2043, when DVC repurposes both BWV and BCV, do you think their respective point charts will remain the same as they are today? Their location and transportation won't change.

 

[WinterSolider]

(without looking it up) Isn't OKW the cheapest 1-bedroom in the entire portfolio?

No. The cabins are significantly cheaper.

But bay lake tower is a lot cheaper than both grand and poly. So it’s not just location.

I didn't say it was "just location," I said "location and transportation more than anything else."

Copper creek couldn’t have higher points for rooms than boulder ridge since they were in the same resort most likely.

That is not correct. They have nothing to do with one another.

I feel like something range dbeyeeen BLT and grand Floridian and DVD got the idea they could jack up point charts a lot

The only thing they "got the idea" about is that the Skyliner would be as attractive to people as the monorail, which is why Riviera got priced like a flagship property.

 

[WinterSolider]

So, hypothetically, in 2043, when DVC repurposes both BWV and BCV, do you think their respective point charts will remain the same as they are today? Their location and transportation won't change.

In this hypo, they're just going to flip the resorts and resell them as new contracts expiring in like 2092?

Yes, I would expect the points charts to be very much the same. Disney will capture their price increase because by then they'll be selling contracts for $400 per point. DVC inflation comes from price-per-point much more than points-per-night.

DVC doesn't work if the points charts are out of whack with one another. If "points charts inflation" were a thing, then we would be seeing loads of availability for Grand Floridian at 7 months and none for Old Key West and Saratoga Springs. The older resorts aren't cheaper because they're older, they're cheaper because they're less desirable.

ETA: I mentioned recently in another thread, there are some outliers. Boardwalk Standard View is too cheap. Old Key West is too cheap. The Bungalows are probably too expensive. But a Poly studio relative to a Saratoga Springs studio, for example, is in line with demand.

 

[hockeydad21]

Pigs get slaughtered.

I’ve seen this crap over and over. A business cuts too many corners or raises a price too high and it’s not that the market won’t bear it on paper, or even that there aren’t enough customers willing to pay, it’s that they lose the trust of their customers, and they start to see them as a bad partner to do business with.

Maximum profit extraction, in other words, can only work as a strategy for a period of time. It virtually never keeps working forever.

That’s what I mean by greedy. It’s fine to price high. It’s foolish to price to the point where your customers will eventually be upset when they’re continuously stuck with crappy overpriced TPV rooms.

^This! They really run the risk of damaging the DVC brand long term if they make this poly points chart mistake with the next 2 builds. I have zero doubts there are going to be a lot of annoyed PVB owners in the next 5 years when all that’s left at the 10 month mark are theme park view rooms with a 60% points surcharge. It’s bad for 95% of your customers.

 

[BeachClub2014]

No. The cabins are significantly cheaper.

Which "cabins" are you referring to?

I thought we were comparing 1-bedrooms against 1-bedrooms?