PVB the new DVC?

[WilsonFlyer]

This is just a theory:

Suppose you are Disney and wanted to build some enticing hotel rooms in the form of bungalows on the lake and rent them at a steep price. However, the cost of building them is high as is the cost of maintaing them since they are right in the water. How do you arrange it it so you can get back all your building costs and have someone else pay all the maintenance while you rent the units out for a profit?

You create the Poly timeshare with almost all studios so that your usual target audience will be able to buy enough points for the studios even though it still is on the expensive side for those purchasers. That target audience cannot afford to buy the points needed for the bungalows but that is the point, or shall we say points because Disney can sell all those additonal points applicable to the bungalows to purchasers who can afford to buy and use only the studios. The result: despite there being 360 studios, you will ultimately have higher demand for them than supply because you will have sold all those points for both the studios and the bungalows to purchasers who can afford only studios. As Disney, you recapture in sales all your building costs for both the studios and the bungalows. And since few of the timeshare purchasers will be able to reserve the bungalows on points, you as Disney will get to rent them much of the time for your own profit after a small percentage of the "breakage" income is given back to the association to offset some of the dues (only 2.5% of the dues). That asking rental price for the bungalows may be steep but of course when renting you as Disney may offer bargains, add in tickets, and even for a a little extra amount provide concierge service to the renters who stay there. Not only will you get to rent them most of the time for your own profit but all of the maintenance and repair costs, and real estate taxes, for the bungalows will be paid for by the dues charged to all those purchasers who can buy only enough points to get studios. Thus, even if your rentals are slow, it is all still profit for Disney without the usual costs of maintenance.

Of course, that is just a theory.

1400+ points for a bungalow during premier season?

Am I the only one here that thinks this is nothing more than DVD using DVC to finance the building of cash rooms for the hotel side?

Not quite as elegantly explained and stated but that's exactly what I Was trying to say in another thread a couple of days ago.

I agree.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Uh, at 115-227 points per night... Not so much.

Sorry, but that made me .

 

[beer dave]

I also don't think there's a single DVC where a 2BR requires the points of 3 studios. So with PVB more points to sell too.

There are some seasons where it is, but mostly a bit under. Oddly enough the 1 bedrooms are usually a bit over twice the studio...... with less or equal occupancy.......

 

[Judique]

Oh yes, they could.

Hmmmm - if it does well enough maybe Poly will become the first monorail resort that is all DVC. No convention center that would mean giving up convention revenue like the CR or GF.

While I was looking at past and present plans, it looked to me as if the Poly was just that - a future all DVC resort. And the way to capitalize and increase the rooms and revenue would be to stick a tower in the background somewhere. Access to monorail, walking path to GF and it's amenities such as the Spa, close to Golf at SOG - walking distance, all the water/lake activities - sammie duvall water sports, all just a monorail stop away, 2 parks very close by, the Monorail loop has a lot to offer and some things that Epcot area does not have.

People always recommend a monorail resort for those with kids. The adult options here are also pretty amazing!

It will be interesting to see what the future does hold.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I'm glad everybody's so excited about the Poly. Admittedly, I was also, to begin with, but the whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth and sales haven't even started yet.

It's overpriced, dollar-wise and point-wise. Short of the fireworks over the castle (almost 1/2 mile away, BTW), when I look at the value I can get at AKK compared to, it's just a hard pill for me to swallow. It's going to be a beautiful resort. No doubt, but it's just too rich for my blood. I hope y'all enjoy it. I wish I could but my points are just too valuable to me in other places.

VGF got me here. I feel exactly the same about it, but I almost bit the bullet and bought points until I realized exactly how many it would take for me to have any real value given when we like to travel. PVB just pushed me over the edge.

It's over my head. I'm resale from here on out, and will just expand my portfolio of points as I need to there, where I feel the real value is now.

So much potential overshadowed by so much greed. Welcome to the new DVD/Disney.

 

[beer dave]

I'm glad everybody's so excited about the Poly. Admittedly, I was also, to begin with, but the whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth and sales haven't even started yet.

It's overpriced, dollar-wise and point-wise. Short of the fireworks over the castle (almost 1/2 mile away, BTW), when I look at the value I can get at AKK compared to, it's just a hard pill for me to swallow. It's going to be a beautiful resort. No doubt, but it's just too rich for my blood. I hope y'all enjoy it. I wish I could but my points are just too valuable to me in other places.

VGF got me here. I feel exactly the same about it, but I almost bit the bullet and bought points until I realized exactly how many it would take for me to have any real value given when we like to travel. PVB just pushed me over the edge.

It's over my head. I'm resale from here on out, and will just expand my portfolio of points as I need to there, where I feel the real value is now.

So much potential overshadowed by so much greed. Welcome to the new DVD/Disney.

My first three were direct. Now I am waiting on my first resale to clear-- I felt I needed to buy before things start to escalate form what is going to happen with the Poly. It's going to be almost like when they built SSR... I know many love it, and that is great.... but SSR flooded the members population with many who had no interest in staying there ( me). I bought for the low intro price and longer term on the contract. Itended to sell my BCV as a trade off, but ended up keeping it all ( good decision imo). For several years the booking became difficult all around at 7 mos, until AKV and BLT eased the draw on BC and BW. Now Poly with 1,000,000 points a year selling for the bungalows, which I think no one will stay in, will flood the studio market in the lower point resorts once the new Poly members find that they cannot book at their home resort due to it being "over sold" on studios. Give me one person who will buy 1400 points for a week in a bungalow--- just one... and I might feel differently. People who have that much in their vacation fund will not put it in a Disney time share.

 

[Judique]

I'm glad everybody's so excited about the Poly. Admittedly, I was also, to begin with, but the whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth and sales haven't even started yet.

It's overpriced, dollar-wise and point-wise. Short of the fireworks over the castle (almost 1/2 mile away, BTW), when I look at the value I can get at AKK compared to, it's just a hard pill for me to swallow. It's going to be a beautiful resort. No doubt, but it's just too rich for my blood. I hope y'all enjoy it. I wish I could but my points are just too valuable to me in other places.

VGF got me here. I feel exactly the same about it, but I almost bit the bullet and bought points until I realized exactly how many it would take for me to have any real value given when we like to travel. PVB just pushed me over the edge.

It's over my head. I'm resale from here on out, and will just expand my portfolio of points as I need to there, where I feel the real value is now.

So much potential overshadowed by so much greed. Welcome to the new DVD/Disney.

It's all about the price you pay for what you want.

I love Animal Kingdom Villas, but only for 2-3 nights tops. I'm going to pay to stay at the Poly because I like it there.

It's business. Business is all about greed and stockholders and what will sell and how to maximize profits. Supply and demand, etc.

You have to take Walt out of the equation. Walt came up with what the people wanted. Disney is now about what makes money.

They sell and you buy based on your emotional connection to the product - makes you forget that they just want your money. That's okay with me so long as I keep myself in touch with reality. Reality is I'll never spend a week in a bungalow - or the King Kamehamea Suite (sp), but I will spend 3-4 nights in a studio on a split stay - love my split stays!

 

[beer dave]

It's all about the price you pay for what you want.

I love Animal Kingdom Villas, but only for 2-3 nights tops. I'm going to pay to stay at the Poly because I like it there.

It's business. Business is all about greed and stockholders and what will sell and how to maximize profits. Supply and demand, etc.

You have to take Walt out of the equation. Walt came up with what the people wanted. Disney is now about what makes money.

They sell and you buy based on your emotional connection to the product - makes you forget that they just want your money. That's okay with me so long as I keep myself in touch with reality. Reality is I'll never spend a week in a bungalow - or the King Kamehamea Suite (sp), but I will spend 3-4 nights in a studio on a split stay - love my split stays!

I agree with all of this. My purchases are quite emotion driven with a check point of reality. As in my above post-- what will you do ( i guess walk reservations) when you can't book at 11 months at your home resort because it is oversold due to everyone having the same view as you about the bungalows? Those 20 buildings represent about 25% of the total points for the resort.... that means 1 out of 4 owners will not get a studio each year. Forget the busy times. If they give you the option, buy a fixed week. otherwise, Ding, round one.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Give me one person who will buy 1400 points for a week in a bungalow--- just one... and I might feel differently. People who have that much in their vacation fund will not put it in a Disney time share.

I thought the same thing when I reviewed the point chart. If someone can afford $15,000 - $20,000 for a 7-night stay in a bungalow, then I doubt that individual would be concerned about saving 40% or more on a lifetime of memories year after year.

 

[beer dave]

And now that there are a surplus million points added to the DVC pool, with out any rooms to use them in, all the resorts will feel the availability hit..... at 7 months... starting with BLT since all the new owners are thinking monorail loop.... get ready to be up at the opening minute on your 7 month window for a BLT studio if you are not an owner..... so if you are thinking of buying resale... get your BLT quick before it starts going up....... or before Disney starts to ROFR all sales.

 

[CarolMN]

This is just a theory:

Suppose you are Disney and wanted to build some enticing hotel rooms in the form of bungalows on the lake and rent them at a steep price. However, the cost of building them is high as is the cost of maintaing them since they are right in the water. How do you arrange it it so you can get back all your building costs and have someone else pay all the maintenance while you rent the units out for a profit?

You create the Poly timeshare with almost all studios so that your usual target audience will be able to buy enough points for the studios even though it still is on the expensive side for those purchasers. That target audience cannot afford to buy the points needed for the bungalows but that is the point, or shall we say points because Disney can sell all those additonal points applicable to the bungalows to purchasers who can afford to buy and use only the studios. The result: despite there being 360 studios, you will ultimately have higher demand for them than supply because you will have sold all those points for both the studios and the bungalows to purchasers who can afford only studios. As Disney, you recapture in sales all your building costs for both the studios and the bungalows. And since few of the timeshare purchasers will be able to reserve the bungalows on points, you as Disney will get to rent them much of the time for your own profit after a small percentage of the "breakage" income is given back to the association to offset some of the dues (only 2.5% of the dues). That asking rental price for the bungalows may be steep but of course when renting you as Disney may offer bargains, add in tickets, and even for a a little extra amount provide concierge service to the renters who stay there. Not only will you get to rent them most of the time for your own profit but all of the maintenance and repair costs, and real estate taxes, for the bungalows will be paid for by the dues charged to all those purchasers who can buy only enough points to get studios. Thus, even if your rentals are slow, it is all still profit for Disney without the usual costs of maintenance.

Of course, that is just a theory.

How does this theory account for the DVC's duty to manage DVC in the best interest of the membership? If only a very few bungalow nights get reserved with points, wouldn't it be DVC's duty to reallocate until the demand between the studios and the bungalows equalize? I think members would reserve the bungalows if the cost was at least perceived to be more reasonable.

Of course, even if they do reallocate, Disney did get members to pay for the construction and the upkeep, as well as a significant proportion of the cost of the total resort's shared amenities.

 

[beer dave]

How does this theory account for the DVC's duty to manage DVC in the best interest of the membership? If only a very few bungalow nights get reserved with points, wouldn't it be DVC's duty to reallocate until the demand between the studios and the bungalows equalize? I think members would reserve the bungalows if the cost was at least perceived to be more reasonable.

Of course, even if they do reallocate, Disney did get members to pay for the construction and the upkeep, as well as a significant proportion of the cost of the total resort's shared amenities.

I think they are going to have to re allocate---- If they are going to keep them occupied....Then all the people who bought only enough Poly points for a week in a studio will have to look to the other resorts for their week...

 

[drusba]

How does this theory account for the DVC's duty to manage DVC in the best interest of the membership? If only a very few bungalow nights get reserved with points, wouldn't it be DVC's duty to reallocate until the demand between the studios and the bungalows equalize? I think members would reserve the bungalows if the cost was at least perceived to be more reasonable.

Of course, even if they do reallocate, Disney did get members to pay for the construction and the upkeep, as well as a significant proportion of the cost of the total resort's shared amenities.

Any reallocation would require increasing the points needed for the studios. DVD has a signifiicant degree of discretion as to whether a change in point allocations should be done (if it had little discretion, someone could easily claim DVD has long been acting unlawfully by not raising points needed for the first two weeks of Dec at WDW resorts). The only real test they need to meet is that they are acting in the best interests of the members as a whole. They could easily conclude that despite low demand for the bungalows it would not be in the best interests of the members as a whole to raise points needed for studios. That kind of change occurred at SSR with the treehouses but DVD could just as easily have decided not to do that one and it would still be deemed to have been acting in the best interests of the members as a whole.

As long as the bungalows have some demand, and it is likely there will be periods where members will actually have some significant demand for them such as the first two weeks of Dec, early Jan, July 4 and Thanskgiving time, and possibly Sep, DVD will be able to sit and do nothing about reallocating points and doing nothing to change the allocation of the points is almost always a position that is defensible as acting properly.

 

[CarolMN]

Any reallocation would require increasing the points needed for the studios. DVD has a signifiicant degree of discretion as to whether a change in point allocations should be done (if it had little discretion, someone could easily claim DVD has long been acting unlawfully by not raising points needed for the first two weeks of Dec at WDW resorts). The only real test they need to meet is that they are acting in the best interests of the members as a whole. They could easily conclude that despite low demand for the bungalows it would not be in the best interests of the members as a whole to raise points needed for studios. That kind of change occurred at SSR with the treehouses but DVD could just as easily have decided not to do that one and it would still be deemed to have been acting in the best interests of the members as a whole.

As long as the bungalows have some demand, and it is likely there will be periods where members will actually have some significant demand for them such as the first two weeks of Dec, early Jan, July 4 and Thanskgiving time, and possibly Sep, DVD will be able to sit and do nothing about reallocating points and doing nothing to change the allocation of the points is almost always a position that is defensible as acting properly.

And now I am wondering how the bungalows were declared. If they are their own UNITS, DVCMC may not even be able to reallocate points from the bungalows to the studios, even if they wanted to do so.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

How does this theory account for the DVC's duty to manage DVC in the best interest of the membership? If only a very few bungalow nights get reserved with points, wouldn't it be DVC's duty to reallocate until the demand between the studios and the bungalows equalize? I think members would reserve the bungalows if the cost was at least perceived to be more reasonable.

Of course, even if they do reallocate, Disney did get members to pay for the construction and the upkeep, as well as a significant proportion of the cost of the total resort's shared amenities.

It's DVC's job but certainly not DVD's. Beginning (sales) v. end (ownership).

To me, that's the difference.

 

[Judique]

I agree with all of this. My purchases are quite emotion driven with a check point of reality. As in my above post-- what will you do ( i guess walk reservations) when you can't book at 11 months at your home resort because it is oversold due to everyone having the same view as you about the bungalows? Those 20 buildings represent about 25% of the total points for the resort.... that means 1 out of 4 owners will not get a studio each year. Forget the busy times. If they give you the option, buy a fixed week. otherwise, Ding, round one.

I've owned since 2000.

I understand planning at 11 months.
I'm on the website at 8am on the day and I get what I want. Usually. I've never walked a reservation.

I now own at 4 resorts. BWV, BCV, HH, Vero.

The only one that has ever given me an issue that I can remember is trying to get my time at HH in summer and that is because I was either looking for a one bedroom or a studio - two bedrooms never a problem. They only have 21 studios and 21 one bedrooms. I had to book a cash night in the middle. I like one bedrooms at HH.

Now, I've cancelled those 11 month trips and have had to rebook. That is when I end up at AKV, OKW, SSR and for me, the dreaded WLV (only cause I've gotten the dumpster room twice!)

I had to rebook my food and wine trip from this past November to last week of Jan/first week of Feb. So, I now have a split stay - AKV Jambo club studio, then off to BLT and the rest of my two weeks at BWV. I'm okay with this, except for the fact that the Food and Wine Festival is over.

I have forgotten the busy times. I had to follow that dang school calendar forever and I'm finally free of it! So I have that advantage.
And I've already booked BWV and BCV for 2015 Food and Wine.....

When you all talk about the millions of points, you seem to think that people will actually use all of them at WDW. I'm guessing 20-25% of them never get used at WDW or even at all - even without a single Poly point sold. That's right - I think a nice percentage just go to waste.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I've owned since 2000.

I understand planning at 11 months.
I'm on the website at 8am on the day and I get what I want. Usually. I've never walked a reservation.

I now own at 4 resorts. BWV, BCV, HH, Vero.

The only one that has ever given me an issue that I can remember is trying to get my time at HH in summer and that is because I was either looking for a one bedroom or a studio - two bedrooms never a problem. They only have 21 studios and 21 one bedrooms. I had to book a cash night in the middle. I like one bedrooms at HH.

Now, I've cancelled those 11 month trips and have had to rebook. That is when I end up at AKV, OKW, SSR and for me, the dreaded WLV (only cause I've gotten the dumpster room twice!)

I had to rebook my food and wine trip from this past November to last week of Jan/first week of Feb. So, I now have a split stay - AKV Jambo club studio, then off to BLT and the rest of my two weeks at BWV. I'm okay with this, except for the fact that the Food and Wine Festival is over.

I have forgotten the busy times. I had to follow that dang school calendar forever and I'm finally free of it! So I have that advantage.
And I've already booked BWV and BCV for 2015 Food and Wine.....

When you all talk about the millions of points, you seem to think that people will actually use all of them at WDW. I'm guessing 20-25% of them never get used at WDW or even at all - even without a single Poly point sold. That's right - I think a nice percentage just go to waste.

I think you're right. I also think that there is no check and balance on the accounting of rooms traded and sold for cash and then the ones not sold being thrown back at membership. There are a LOT of things I question. Disney owns enough of the timeshare to control the board and the annual meeting. That has always griped me.

We really have NO voice at all. The only vote we really have is buying and selling. Period. That's part of what we accept in membership (in hindsight)..

 

[beer dave]

I think you're right. I also think that there is no check and balance on the accounting of rooms traded and sold for cash and then the ones not sold being thrown back at membership. There are a LOT of things I question. Disney owns enough of the timeshare to control the board and the annual meeting. That has always griped me.

We really have NO voice at all. The only vote we really have is buying and selling. Period. That's part of what we accept in membership (in hindsight)..

well I hope the two of you are right. My bookings go fine on the 7 month mark, but I only have rented 1 and 2 beds. Hoping it stays that way.

 

[thebigman65]

I'm staying at VWL for the first time.......what is the "dumpster room"?.....

 

[DebbieB]

The bungalows are not an exclusive product. The are part of the PVB product but they are the same as the studios.

What I meant by "exclusive" is there isn't anything like it. Maybe exclusive isn't the right word, maybe "unique" would be better. Separate buildings, right on the water, facing the magic kingdom, outside "tub". I think there will be a draw to stay there, mostly by people who don't worry about money. Similar to people paying millions to build a home at Golden Oak.