'Pregnant' man stuns medical profession

[SandraVB79]

??? So, what is the criteria to determine gender, then?

Certainly not only the organs, since a woman without uterus and/or ovaries and / or breasts is still a woman.

 

[SandraVB79]

(OK, breasts are not organs...)

 

[poohandwendy]

Certainly not only the organs, since a woman without uterus and/or ovaries and / or breasts is still a woman.

Do you classify your unborn baby (or your other children's) gender? Or do you call them 'unclassified'?

 

[poohandwendy]

(OK, breasts are not organs...)

Actually, they are.

 

[SandraVB79]

Actually, they are.

According to the Dutch wikipedia http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgaan as well as other Dutch websites I quickly consulted, they are not.

And since I don't understand what you mean by classifying unborn babies, I can't answer that question.

 

[poohandwendy]

According to the Dutch wikipedia http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgaan as well as other Dutch websites I quickly consulted, they are not.

And since I don't understand what you mean by classifying unborn babies, I can't answer that question.

If someone were to ask the gender of your unborn baby, would you respond a boy or a girl? Are your children boys or girls? Is there a gray area? How did you come to those conclusions?

Female sex/reproductive organs:
breasts, ******, vulva, uterus, fallopian tubes, cervix, ovaries.

 

[SandraVB79]

If someone were to ask the gender of your unborn baby, would you respond a boy or a girl? Are your children boys or girls? Is there a gray area? How did you come to those conclusions?

Female sex/reproductive organs:
breasts, ******, vulva, uterus, fallopian tubes, cervix, ovaries.

I still don't understand your question. I think I must be stupid.

 

[poohandwendy]

I still don't understand your question. I think I must be stupid.

Sandra, what is the gender of the baby you are carrying?

 

[poohandwendy]

People seem to think we determine male or female by looking at body parts. So, if you change the appearance of their 'parts', they are a different sex. That isn't true at all. We can determine if someone was male or female from a drop of blood. They could have had all of their reproductive parts removed at some point and their gender is still absolutely clear in their DNA. When it is not clear, it's a genetic anomaly. It's that simple.

I couldn't care less if someone wants to change their gender identity. But they are only doing that. They are not really changing their DNA, they are not really changing their sex. A man who feels like a woman is a man who feels like a woman...he cannot become an actual woman, even through surgery or with hormone therapy. He is then a man who feels like a woman and had surgery/took hormones to look more like a woman.

 

[SandraVB79]

Sandra, what is the gender of the baby you are carrying?

You must know more than I do, because as far as I know, I am not carrying any child

A friend of mine is pregnant, as is another student at culinary school as is our chef, and they are all talking about "the baby".

Quite actually, I don't understand why you are asking ME all these questions.

 

[poohandwendy]

You must know more than I do, because as far as I know, I am not carrying any child

A friend of mine is pregnant, as is another student at culinary school as is our chef, and they are all talking about "the baby".

Quite actually, I don't understand why you are asking ME all these questions.

My apologies, I had you mistaken for another poster who is pregnant. Now I can understand why my questions seemed confusing!

My point is that when women are pregnant, they often find out the gender of their baby ahead of time. How do we know their gender if it isn't black and white? Gender is classified by sex. (I am talking to you because you brought up the point that having sexual organs doesn't make someone a specific gender)

So I ask you, how is gender determined, in your opinion?

 

[SandraVB79]

In most cases, gender is determined by the chromosomes, and when we are born, doctors focus on the sexual organs to say "it's a boy" or "it's a girl". However, I don't think at that very moment the baby is born, they will know whether the girl really has a uterus or ovaries, they will "judge" based on whether she has a ****** and not a *****.

But in cases where people whose soul/ spirit is one gender are "trapped" in the body of the other gender, it isn't that simple anymore.

Are we able to deny them happiness by not making them switch gender? There is nothing we can do about their chromosomes, but should they be unhappy for the rest of their lives because of that?
Live and let live. If my neighbour, who is born a woman but feels like a man, is much happier being a man, who am I to deny him that? If he switches gender, does this affect ME? Nope.
There are way worse things in this world than people changing gender, being happy and having children.

A child is better off being wanted and having two loving/ caring parents, whether they are same gender, different gender or switched gender, than being unwanted/ abused/ whatever in a "normal" family.
For the record: Most "normal" families treat their children well, and my neighbour isn't transgender.

 

[SandraVB79]

the *-ed out words are the V-word used for female sexual organs and the p-word used for male sexual organs.

 

[Charade]

As a matter of fact, I think of the Western countries, the US is very discriminating towards gay people. For this reason, my brother, who is gay, is still not sure whether he will accompany us on our next vacation or not.

This is totally unfounded. Just what do you fear will happen to him? Does he plan to get married here? Otherwise, most people wouldn't even know, or care.

 

[poohandwendy]

If my neighbour, who is born a woman but feels like a man, is much happier being a man, who am I to deny him that?

I don't have to subscribe to the same theories to agree with that.

My point was that the discussion went into a direction where people seemed to be suggesting there really is no scientific determination for sex and that is simply not true. We can tell sex from chromosomes, and when it is unclear it's considered a genetic abnormality. We classify gender by sex.

A woman can dress like a man and she will be a woman who dresses like a man. A woman can take hormones (or have surgery) to become a man but she is still a woman who took hormones/had surgery to become a man. A woman can have all of her reproductive organs removed and she is still a woman. Our sex cannot be altered. We can, however, live the way we want to and assume an identity we choose.

 

[raysnkaysmom]

In most cases, gender is determined by the chromosomes, and when we are born, doctors focus on the sexual organs to say "it's a boy" or "it's a girl". However, I don't think at that very moment the baby is born, they will know whether the girl really has a uterus or ovaries, they will "judge" based on whether she has a ****** and not a *****.

But in cases where people whose soul/ spirit is one gender are "trapped" in the body of the other gender, it isn't that simple anymore.

Are we able to deny them happiness by not making them switch gender? There is nothing we can do about their chromosomes, but should they be unhappy for the rest of their lives because of that?
Live and let live. If my neighbour, who is born a woman but feels like a man, is much happier being a man, who am I to deny him that? If he switches gender, does this affect ME? Nope.
There are way worse things in this world than people changing gender, being happy and having children.

A child is better off being wanted and having two loving/ caring parents, whether they are same gender, different gender or switched gender, than being unwanted/ abused/ whatever in a "normal" family.
For the record: Most "normal" families treat their children well, and my neighbour isn't transgender.

100% aggreeance..

Just had to laugh (in a sad sorta way) that you had to throw the
'FOR THE RECORD' in there....just to avoid someone jumpin on it...

 

[Disney1fan2002]

What I don't understand, is why the media is making this sound like it is a medical miracle, paving the way for men to actually BE pregnant.

That is what the news did last night. "Coming up in the 6:00 hour, a MAN claims to be 6 months pregnant. Medical miracle, or hoax?"

So, I watch it, and find the "man" is actually a transgendered "female" that still has some of her parts.

So,"he" stops taking the hormones "he" was taking to be a man, and now we have a female that is pregnant.

Not so much a miracle to me. What is the big deal?

 

[Buckalew11]

What I don't understand, is why the media is making this sound like it is a medical miracle, paving the way for men to actually BE pregnant.

That is what the news did last night. "Coming up in the 6:00 hour, a MAN claims to be 6 months pregnant. Medical miracle, or hoax?"

So, I watch it, and find the "man" is actually a transgendered "female" that still has some of her parts.

So,"he" stops taking the hormones "he" was taking to be a man, and now we have a female that is pregnant.

Not so much a miracle to me. What is the big deal?

Me too. I just don't see what the hoopla is. Now if a real man was having a baby, that would be something to hear about. Where would a man carry the baby? That would be the story to have headlines. This is a woman in all reality.

 

[Heidict]

What I don't understand, is why the media is making this sound like it is a medical miracle, paving the way for men to actually BE pregnant.

That is what the news did last night. "Coming up in the 6:00 hour, a MAN claims to be 6 months pregnant. Medical miracle, or hoax?"

So, I watch it, and find the "man" is actually a transgendered "female" that still has some of her parts.

So,"he" stops taking the hormones "he" was taking to be a man, and now we have a female that is pregnant.

Not so much a miracle to me. What is the big deal?

That is what I'm trying to figure out also. I understand that he has been taking hormones and is legally a man, however, all the working female parts are still present so the fact that there is a pregnancy is not astounding nor a medical miracle.



What really saddens me is the fact that they have been laughed at by people in the medical community. Smartestnumber5 said "(it's) very common for transgender folks to get substandard medical care and ridicule from supposed medical professionals."

That just absolutely sickens and angers me. What is wrong with people? I work in the medical profession. I have worked in labs, in clinics, in doctors offices along with a score of other settings. I can't imagine ever doing that to a patient. As a professional I don't care if you are a man, a woman, a man who used to be a woman, a man pretending to be a woman, whatever. A person is a person and they all deserve the same care and respect regardless of what clothes they are wearing.

To all the of those within the GLBT community who have had to endure something like that I'm sorry. It's an embarassment to me. Please know that not everyone in the medical community would treat you so horribly and unprofessionaly.

 

[mjkacmom]

The article states that "he" is legally a man. What does it take to become that if this person still has important female parts? Because essentially here we have two women who are married. How is this allowed but not gay marriage?

There is a big difference between being gay, and being transgendered. A gay women is attracted to other women, but still feels like a woman. A transgendered woman is attracted to other women, but feels like a man. I have no problem with this couple, and their efforts to have a child. Even though he feels that he is a man, if his body is able to produce a child, and his wife's body is not, they should be able to have a baby.