PPO BOG did not cause Early Morning Magic

[leebee]

Disney has known for years that people will pay to be in MK before it officially opens. Folks used to make PPO ADRs at CRT and CP with no intention of eating; they just wanted to be deep within MK, at the backside of the Castle, when rope drop occurred, to get a jump on the crowds headed for Dumbo. Part of me thinks that they've allowed the PPO situation with BOG and 7DMT to create the mindset that you can eat and ride before park opening. Now that people expect to have that opportunity, it's not surprising that Disney is going to capitalize on it via the new, pre-paid event. I am not sure that eventually this will be offered every morning, as it would negate EMH and much of the reason to be willing to pay Disney hotel prices, but it wouldn't surprise me if it becomes available 3-4 mornings a week. I am pretty sure that there'll be a steady clientele for this opportunity; people pay a premium to eat breakfast and meet characters, so why not eat breakfast and experience FantasyLand without the crowds? In the long run, my guess is that BOG will become the venue for this breakfast party, and there will no longer be breakfast QS offered there- it'll become a prix fixe meal and a few PPO attraction opportunities in FantasyLand.

 

[dkrauss]

.......... But this is all about charging for something where they saw an opportunity.

You answer the argument with the line above. Disney saw an opportunity...........how? Because patrons showed it to them..........by giving those patrons that opportunity. If Disney is anything.......they're observant.

Doug

 

[knewton64]

Disney has known for years that people will pay to be in MK before it officially opens. Folks used to make PPO ADRs at CRT and CP with no intention of eating; they just wanted to be deep within MK, at the backside of the Castle, when rope drop occurred, to get a jump on the crowds headed for Dumbo. Part of me thinks that they've allowed the PPO situation with BOG and 7DMT to create the mindset that you can eat and ride before park opening. Now that people expect to have that opportunity, it's not surprising that Disney is going to capitalize on it via the new, pre-paid event. I am not sure that eventually this will be offered every morning, as it would negate EMH and much of the reason to be willing to pay Disney hotel prices, but it wouldn't surprise me if it becomes available 3-4 mornings a week. I am pretty sure that there'll be a steady clientele for this opportunity; people pay a premium to eat breakfast and meet characters, so why not eat breakfast and experience FantasyLand without the crowds? In the long run, my guess is that BOG will become the venue for this breakfast party, and there will no longer be breakfast QS offered there- it'll become a prix fixe meal and a few PPO attraction opportunities in FantasyLand.

I work in the hotel industy and have to admit its sad and quite a joke to see some "No-showed" Guests who book a room with no intention of showing up (to cheat on their Spouse but prove they were "here" at our Hotel, etc) and now this???

I seriosuly had to clue some people do this at MK - aka 'abuse the system.'


SAD -




T.T.F.N.
&
CHEERS Y'ALL

 

[hoopics]

I don't believe it's an "abuse" of any sort. Disney has well developed rules and policies. One says, the cost to Disney of not using a reservation is $10 a person. They could make that $25. Or full cost of a meal. Or forfeiture of ticket. Or $0. They picked $10. That allows me as a guest to decide what I value most: the meal, or the $10, or something the $10 buys me. For our family of four, staying off site, that $10 a person (for a CP table we opted not to use) bought us access to MK at minute zero of a morning EMH. Which got us four extra rides with no wait prior to regular park open, and three more in short order before the crowds made it back to the Barnstormer. So 4-7 rides for four people for $40. I was happy to pay that premium.

I followed every rule Disney's legal and marketing departments drafted, and paid their penalty fair and square. What exactly did I abuse?

 

[mummabear]

I don't believe it's an "abuse" of any sort. Disney has well developed rules and policies. One says, the cost to Disney of not using a reservation is $10 a person. They could make that $25. Or full cost of a meal. Or forfeiture of ticket. Or $0. They picked $10. That allows me as a guest to decide what I value most: the meal, or the $10, or something the $10 buys me. For our family of four, staying off site, that $10 a person (for a CP table we opted not to use) bought us access to MK at minute zero of a morning EMH. Which got us four extra rides with no wait prior to regular park open, and three more in short order before the crowds made it back to the Barnstormer. So 4-7 rides for four people for $40. I was happy to pay that premium.

I followed every rule Disney's legal and marketing departments drafted, and paid their penalty fair and square. What exactly did I abuse?

You may have followed the letter of the "law"but certainly not the spirit of it. It was because of people like you that we have a $10 no show penalty now (who used to make multiple ADRs so they had a choice of which one to show up to)
What it comes down to is that this was a dining reservation not a "pay to get to fantasyland before the crowds" pass.
And again you are taking away those reservation from people who want to legitimately use them.

 

[Nancyg56]

I don't believe it's an "abuse" of any sort. Disney has well developed rules and policies. One says, the cost to Disney of not using a reservation is $10 a person. They could make that $25. Or full cost of a meal. Or forfeiture of ticket. Or $0. They picked $10. That allows me as a guest to decide what I value most: the meal, or the $10, or something the $10 buys me. For our family of four, staying off site, that $10 a person (for a CP table we opted not to use) bought us access to MK at minute zero of a morning EMH. Which got us four extra rides with no wait prior to regular park open, and three more in short order before the crowds made it back to the Barnstormer. So 4-7 rides for four people for $40. I was happy to pay that premium.

I followed every rule Disney's legal and marketing departments drafted, and paid their penalty fair and square. What exactly did I abuse?

YOu get to decide how to spend your money, but I must say that there are families who would have loved that table you tosses away so lightly. Yes, you followed the rules and you got what you wanted, but I cannot say that I think what you did was okay. What makes it worse is that you probaby are not alone in this practice. Hmmmmm.... consider the no show fee an early entry fee. And hit a few attractions. Who cares that the behavior left others without an ADR that they actually would have used?

And if and when EMH go away are there is a fee assessed for them.....who is at fault????? The people who trained Disney to believe that folks are willing to pay money for EMH, doing exactly what you did.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

We have an 8 am reservation at BOG. There are 6 of us and we will probably get at least 4 meals (it's a waste of money to order for my 2 DGDs). What we had gotten the ressie for was to be able to get into the park early in order to enjoy a stroll through a nearly empty park, get a few castle pictures without a mob behind us. A "plus" would be for 4 members of our party to be able to line up early for 7DMT. We have fps for 9:10 for Peter Pan, and 10:10 fps for 7DMT. If we were able to get on 7DMT then we could drop the fps for something else. If not, no harm, no foul. One thing about planning a Disney vacation; expect the unexpected and plan accordingly. Personally (for me) if they offer the EMH pay for event, it would please me. I am not an early riser, and it would not break my heart to cancel the BOG ressie. We are covered for the rides, and can get there at 9:30 or so and carry on.
ETA: We got the 7DMT fps because I feel even though we have PPO reservations, it's really up to the CMs if they open the ride early or not. An early am reservation does not guarantee anyone several PPO rides on anything.

 

[Ariel Wanna-be]

I followed every rule Disney's legal and marketing departments drafted, and paid their penalty fair and square. What exactly did I abuse?

You didn't "abuse" anything...as another poster said, you followed the letter of the law, if not the spirit. I do not agree with your choice to do this, but it is hard for me to get mad at you, when it is Disney that has created the opportunity for you to use that tactic.

It would be so easy to prevent this, so it makes me wonder why Disney doesn't do something about it. I think it's because Disney wants people like you to do exactly what you did. Why? I'm sure there is some complicated formula that tells them the percentage of people who will made the ADR with the intention of never using it, and then they turn around and allow the bookings of that many more tables. This way, they are making money from a full restaurant of meals, plus making money for "paid-early-entry" people. Win-win for them, since the PEE people cost Disney absolutely nothing. Zip. Zero. Pure profit.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

I work in the hotel industy and have to admit its sad and quite a joke to see some "No-showed" Guests who book a room with no intention of showing up (to cheat on their Spouse but prove they were "here" at our Hotel, etc) and now this???

I seriosuly had to clue some people do this at MK - aka 'abuse the system.'


SAD -




T.T.F.N.
&
CHEERS Y'ALL

Oh yes, there's a very long thread about "Throwaway Rooms" that people reserve in order to get the jump on ADRs, fps, MBs, free parking, etc. While I will admit the practice gets a little under my skin, to each his own. The only thing that makes me sad is that the favorite target is the Fort Wilderness, and my friend had a horrible time trying to get a campsite on her last visit. I highly suspect a couple of the days she was not able to book, there were empty sites she could have used. Maybe the "Throwaway" people could start a thread advertising their space for rent, lol.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

Oh yes, there's a very long thread about "Throwaway Rooms" that people reserve in order to get the jump on ADRs, fps, MBs, free parking, etc. While I will admit the practice gets a little under my skin, to each his own. The only thing that makes me sad is that the favorite target is the Fort Wilderness, and my friend had a horrible time trying to get a campsite on her last visit. I highly suspect a couple of the days she was not able to book, there were empty sites she could have used. Maybe the "Throwaway" people could start a thread advertising their space for rent, lol.

ETA: I say kudos to those who come in after the fact and cancel, once they get their perks.

 

[pavicich]

I understand why people are disappointed-but trying to justify that it is ok because it is not technically "breaking a rule" to order a cupcake instead of an actual meal at a restaurant that is there to generate money is a huge stretch. It isn't about a rule really.

When I used to wait tables there was a performance target and metric that was a specific dollar amount per head expected to take in. There was also a targeted average table turn time. I don't work at Disney but know that these metrics are in place at many other eateries-It isn't unusual at all.

Guests that justify there is nothing wrong with being counted as negative data against performance targets (ie ordering a $5 cupcake when they very easily could have gotten that cupcake literally anywhere else without taking away a reso from the sit down restaurant) are very aware of what they are doing and are knowingly providing negative metrics. The magic band bean counter that tracks every move and spending habit all while classifying that data for research purposes about them reports this data and we all then EVENTUALLY get to deal with the consequences.

I heard a while back that California Grill was considering prix fix pricing due to all those that justified taking a window seat during wishes and ordered an appetizer for their table vs eating dinner cause they just weren't hungry for a full meal. It hasn't happened yet but based on the track record I will not be surprised and as long as it continues neither should anyone else.

 

[Nancyg56]

I understand why people are disappointed-but trying to justify that it is ok because it is not technically "breaking a rule" to order a cupcake instead of an actual meal at a restaurant that is there to generate money is a huge stretch. It isn't about a rule really.

When I used to wait tables there was a performance target and metric that was a specific dollar amount per head expected to take in. There was also a targeted average table turn time. I don't work at Disney but know that these metrics are in place at many other eateries-It isn't unusual at all.

Guests that justify there is nothing wrong with being counted as negative data against performance targets (ie ordering a $5 cupcake when they very easily could have gotten that cupcake literally anywhere else without taking away a reso from the sit down restaurant) are very aware of what they are doing and are knowingly providing negative metrics. The magic band bean counter that tracks every move and spending habit all while classifying that data for research purposes about them reports this data and we all then EVENTUALLY get to deal with the consequences.

I heard a while back that California Grill was considering prix fix pricing due to all those that justified taking a window seat during wishes and ordered an appetizer for their table vs eating dinner cause they just weren't hungry for a full meal. It hasn't happened yet but based on the track record I will not be surprised and as long as it continues neither should anyone else.

I think your situation and this are apples and oranges. BOG is NOT a TS restaurant. It is the only CS restaurant tha takes ADR's, but it still is indeed a CS restaurant. DIsney had plenty of time to attempt to control this, yet instead they offered an ALA Carte cupcake, and allow fols to order it. No one is financial penalized for the order.....it is a cafeteria.

As to CG, if Disney wants to implement a minimum order, it will not affect those who order meals. It will impact the dessert and coffee folks. Personally, I think it is a terrible idea, but if CG determines they will benefit, who am I to say. WHat is next though? By your own analogy, splitting entrees is bad form becuase the lack of two full meals impacts the sever. I waited table for many many years. I think people should be able to order what they want to eat If the restaurant wants to charge a cover, they will, but until ttthat happens, not one of us is entitles to tell guests they must change how they order.

 

[goofy4tink]

I haven't read the entire thread...no need to, I pretty much know what's being said. So, having said that? If Disney wanted to stop the practice of guests making ADRs at BoG in order to get a jump on the SDMT attraction? They would just do what they used to do.....guests weren't allowed to move past the restaurant. There was no moving about the unopened park! Once the park opened, the rope came down and you got a bit of a jump on those just entering. Obviously, Disney doesn't care. They could close up a number of 'loopholes' but they choose to look the other way. Used to be that you could buy your child a child's AP and book a room with it in order to get the AP discount. Can't do that anymore...they closed that loophole.
Each person should do what they feel is right for their family. Us? We won't be booking throw away rooms in order to get addtl perks, or booking BoG ADRs for early access to the line. It's just not that big a deal. But, that's my family...yours may be completely different.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

I think your situation and this are apples and oranges. BOG is NOT a TS restaurant. It is the only CS restaurant tha takes ADR's, but it still is indeed a CS restaurant. DIsney had plenty of time to attempt to control this, yet instead they offered an ALA Carte cupcake, and allow fols to order it. No one is financial penalized for the order.....it is a cafeteria.

As to CG, if Disney wants to implement a minimum order, it will not affect those who order meals. It will impact the dessert and coffee folks. Personally, I think it is a terrible idea, but if CG determines they will benefit, who am I to say. WHat is next though? By your own analogy, splitting entrees is bad form becuase the lack of two full meals impacts the sever. I waited table for many many years. I think people should be able to order what they want to eat If the restaurant wants to charge a cover, they will, but until ttthat happens, not one of us is entitles to tell guests they must change how they order.

I don't think the PP was telling people how to order. I took it that he was explaining how stats for certain restaurants work. He never implied that is how BOG does it, just that if there is an impact that Disney doesn't like then they may implement charges or paid EMH.

 

[Nancyg56]

I don't think the PP was telling people how to order. I took it that he was explaining how stats for certain restaurants work. He never implied that is how BOG does it, just that if there is an impact that Disney doesn't like then they may implement charges or paid EMH.

I understood what the PP was saying, and I understand how metrics work in regards to any kind of sales. BOG does not have that taken into consideration because it is CS. It is kind of relevant here, once the cupcake is mentioned.

 

[pavicich]

I don't think the PP was telling people how to order. I took it that he was explaining how stats for certain restaurants work. He never implied that is how BOG does it, just that if there is an impact that Disney doesn't like then they may implement charges or paid EMH.

Yes-my intent was to introduce the metric piece of the discussion. I think it actually is relevant in this situation because while technically it is a CS, it is a CS that requires a reso and often is difficult for others to book.

The guest who is prevented from eating a full meal in the restaurant by the guest who makes a reso to eat a cupcake is therefore lost money to the metric.

 

[Nancyg56]

Yes-my intent was to introduce the metric piece of the discussion. I think it actually is relevant in this situation because while technically it is a CS, it is a CS that requires a reso and often is difficult for others to book.

The guest who is prevented from eating a full meal in the restaurant by the guest who makes a reso to eat a cupcake is therefore lost money to the metric.

I would agree if Disney had not added that option long after they opened. I still do not understand why a Disney did nto stick to the price per seat that BOG looked like it was supposed to be, but they did not. If they were no okay with the situation. Why add the cupcake?

I do understand metrics, even in a restaurant situation. If a company is worried about dollars per seat, they do nto offer a cupcake when they can get $25 per head.

 

[snayak]

I would agree if Disney had not added that option long after they opened. I still do not understand why a Disney did nto stick to the price per seat that BOG looked like it was supposed to be, but they did not. If they were no okay with the situation. Why add the cupcake?

I do understand metrics, even in a restaurant situation. If a company is worried about dollars per seat, they do nto offer a cupcake when they can get $25 per head.

Early Morning Magic is a huge win for Disney. Not only do they get to keep their PPO ADRs (and offer a "budget" meal at BOG by keeping it CS) but they ensure the parks will be packed from 8am onwards and nobody gets a head start without paying $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

So, if you booked BOG, or CRT or whatever pre-park opening you get exactly what you paid for - a meal, maybe some characters, and then lines...just like everybody else - should have ponied up the $70/each...

 

[malarky]

I am new on these boards and I don't know what are EMH, PPO, BOG, or CS. I tried searching on disneyworld.com and definitely can't find anywhere to book these things. I tried reading all four pages of this topic it just sounds like people are mad.

This trip is very expensive and I feel like I need some kind of college degree just to go to Disney World. I booked a trip in August with my girlfriend and I am here to learn what to do next. But everyone seems so frustrated and stressed out about their trips. Now I am telling her, look, I think it's all a mistake to go to Disney because see how unhappy everyone is.

Maybe I should just cancel. Good think we didn't buy plane tickets yet.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

I understood what the PP was saying, and I understand how metrics work in regards to any kind of sales. BOG does not have that taken into consideration because it is CS. It is kind of relevant here, once the cupcake is mentioned.

Early Morning Magic is a huge win for Disney. Not only do they get to keep their PPO ADRs (and offer a "budget" meal at BOG by keeping it CS) but they ensure the parks will be packed from 8am onwards and nobody gets a head start without paying $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

So, if you booked BOG, or CRT or whatever pre-park opening you get exactly what you paid for - a meal, maybe some characters, and then lines...just like everybody else - should have ponied up the $70/each...

I am new on these boards and I don't know what are EMH, PPO, BOG, or CS. I tried searching on disneyworld.com and definitely can't find anywhere to book these things. I tried reading all four pages of this topic it just sounds like people are mad.

This trip is very expensive and I feel like I need some kind of college degree just to go to Disney World. I booked a trip in August with my girlfriend and I am here to learn what to do next. But everyone seems so frustrated and stressed out about their trips. Now I am telling her, look, I think it's all a mistake to go to Disney because see how unhappy everyone is.

Maybe I should just cancel. Good think we didn't buy plane tickets yet.

You are reading the wrong thread. Everyone here is debating a new event and as always there are those who love it and those who don't. You would be better off to start your own topic and ask the questions you want to know and there are a lot of people here on this board who are very helpful.