Potential Buyer, Availability (sorry for the length)

[CarolynFH]

To put some numbers on this:

In Marriott's pure trust product, '22 MFs are about 62.8 cents per point. A 2BR oceanfront at Barony Beach Club on Hilton Head in peak summer is 5,400 points. That makes a total fees cost of just about $3,400. A 2BR at DVC's HHI in peak summer is 337 points. Dues at HHI are $10.07. The total cost? Just about $3,400. (Marriott point charts are here.)

Buying those Marriott points, on the resale market, would cost you something around $6.50/pt total. (Fidelity is listing Marriott points at about $3.50, plus Marriott's $3 junk fee). So, the 5,400 points cost about $36,000. Buying those DVC points, on the resale market, would cost about $80/pt, or $27,000. That's a real difference, but the HHI points are less versatile.

You can probably get HHI at seven months if you are diligent, which would let you spend a little less using points with cheaper dues. If you used RIV points for it, the dues are $8.38, for a total cost of $2,800. But you'd have to buy RIV points from the developer to use them at HHI--much much more expensive. Maybe a better choice is SSR. Those points have dues of $7.33, for a total cost of about $2,500 for the week. But you'd have to pay about $120 or so for them, for a bit more than $40K.

But the DVC location is much less desirable than the Marriott. The Marriott resort is oceanfront. The DVC resort is on the interior of the island. It's on Broad Creek, but it's not the beach. If you wanted one of the "lesser" rooms at Barony (as in: still an easy walk from the beach but a garden view), it would only be 3,725 points, or about $2,400 in dues and a purchase price of just over $24,000--cheaper dues than using SSR points at HHI, and a cheaper buy-in than buying Hilton Head directly. And, it's still a better location.

If you want a more comparable location, consider Marriott Sunset Pointe. It's just down Broad Creek from Disney's resort. Peak-summer point values for a 2BR there are much lower: 1,400 points. In the pure trust product, that means annual fees are only $900. You can buy those points for less than $10,000.

Edited to add: Looking at these makes me wonder why I haven't bought Marriott. I don't need another timeshare. I don't need another timeshare. I don't need...

Thanks for the actual figures. I didn’t realize Marriott was so close in cost to DVC. I just remembered that years ago, when my parents visited with a DVC guide, they said they didn’t buy because the MFs were so much higher than their Marriott MFs. That was before Marriott created their points trust, however, so their MFs were for 3 deeded weeks.

Signed: Enablers-R-Us.

Enough said.

 

[Ozznato]

You mean preposterously low for Marriott, right? DVC has some of the highest maintenance fees among points-based TS.

Something I failed to realize when I posted that was that I was comparing apples and oranges, comparing the maintenance fees on enough points in Marriott to go every year vs. the fees to go 3/6 years to RIV.

 

[RoseGold]

I know others feel differently but I would NEVER buy DVC to go to Aulani, Vero, or Hilton Head. There are way to many other places to go that are of similar or better quality, similar or better locations, and similar or less expensive.

I completely agree. The Aulani people come out hunting the beast when you say this, but it's totally true. If I were going to spend Aulani prices, I'd go somewhere nicer.

I did book a couple nights for a local at VB and, well, they were politely thankful and will never go back.

I don't know much about HH other than there are a lot of hotels on the block, so they actually have to compete.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

I completely agree. The Aulani people come out hunting the beast when you say this, but it's totally true. If I were going to spend Aulani prices, I'd go somewhere nicer.

I did book a couple nights for a local at VB and, well, they were politely thankful and will never go back.

I don't know much about HH other than there are a lot of hotels on the block, so they actually have to compete.

HHI is very nice. I like the location of shipyard better but definitely like the DVC resort best over there

 

[Brian Noble]

Aulani gets a lot of things right. They seemed to be respectful of island culture during planning and design, and tried to integrate it into the resort as well as they could. That respect is interwoven in the spaces and storytelling of the resort, and it shows in ways that it often doesn’t in many other resorts on the islands.

And, while Oahu is fourth of four in my “favorite major Hawaiian islands” list, it isn’t necessarily there for everyone. The access is a little easier to HNL than the other airports. And, I’ve not really explored much of the North Shore, which my wife insists would change my opinion of Oahu. It might not move it up the list, but it would help.

But, the basic fact of Aulani’s existence flies in the face of the respect they tried to interweave. It’s built on a bunch of man-made lagoons. The snorkeling “reef” is entirely isolated from the ocean (and an up charge!). The vibe strikes me as very self-contained and inward looking, as though this is a “better” (or at least “more Disney”) version of Hawaii. Disney is rather famous for ersatz copies of real environments that feel pretty close if you don’t look carefully, but aren’t really. For example, I can’t visit POFQ without seeing it as a faded, boring, and lifeless copy of the French Quarter.

I wonder if Aulani is just a more convincing example of the same idea. But, it’s also possible that I’m just weird.

 

[Brian Noble]

For example

Another one that comes to mind: Biergarten. I like Biergarten. It’s one of my short-listed Epcot restaurants. I probably visit every few trips to WDW.

But, I’ve also been to the Augustiner-Keller biergarten in Munich. The night I happened to be there was also the night that Bayern beat Valencia on PKs in the Champions League final, and they wheeled out this small television on a long extension cord for people to watch. Granted, this was an exceptional night (the U-bahn back into the city was literally rocking back and forth on its wheels as people were singing after the match) but still: Epcot’s Biergarten is a nice buffet restaurant with a band. It’s not a German biergarten.

 

[DonMacGregor]

And, while Oahu is fourth of four in my “favorite major Hawaiian islands” list, it isn’t necessarily there for everyone. The access is a little easier to HNL than the other airports. And, I’ve not really explored much of the North Shore, which my wife insists would change my opinion of Oahu. It might not move it up the list, but it would help.

100%. That's why I have no desire to stay at Aulani. Ko'Olina and the whole Ewa (leeward) side of the island does nothing for me. I can do hot beaches and dry brown vegetation right here in So Cal. The windward side (North Shore, Haleiwa) and all the way around to La'ie and down to Kaneohe and Kailua are the only place to be on Oahu. Trade winds and lots of rain make it a landscape of rain forests, majestic mountains, waterfalls, and beautiful, quiet beaches. I'll stay in a Waikiki resort, just so long as I can get on the H2 or H3 and head up Kamahameha Hwy and I'm good. That part of the island, what the kama'aina call the "country", is spectacular, rural, and as good as anything you'll find on the other islands (except volcanoes obviously).

 

[CaliAdventurer]

As an owner at Aulani and HHI, I can say that our habits have certainly changed in recent years with more off park resorts vacays. Our kids who are tweens, love Aulani best of all and found HHI to be magic (and they are not even water kids). We can and do travel to some of the best hotels out there and still find the larger DVC villas to be wonderful. When we go to Aulani we spend a week there and then a few days at another resort. We dont compare apples to oranges and love them all.

Should the OP choose an offsite location? Nah. Let the parents do what they want as they want with what's theirs If it's not to his or his wife's liking when it comes time to inherit, sell it.

 

[SLThomas318]

For an every 3 years trip, your parents should just rent points. Then they can stay at RIV without the huge capital outlay, the maintenance dues, etc. Your wife will be happier too without the yearly Disney trip.

I agree with this point. Do the math on 3 years worth of dues for however many points you are looking at and consider what type of accommodations you could get for that money... 100 pts at $8.38 is $838 for the year, but $2514 if you are using 3 years worth of points (would fluctuate a little since we don't know what dues will be the following years). Then you have to consider that this doesn't even take into account the initial buy-in...

 

[CaliAdventurer]

I agree with this point. Do the math on 3 years worth of dues for however many points you are looking at and consider what type of accommodations you could get for that money... 100 pts at $8.38 is $838 for the year, but $2514 if you are using 3 years worth of points (would fluctuate a little since we don't know what dues will be the following years). Then you have to consider that this doesn't even take into account the initial buy-in...

Only problem is that they need to rent 300 pts not 100 for any kind of meaningful stay at RIV.

 

[crisi]

Aulani gets a lot of things right. They seemed to be respectful of island culture during planning and design, and tried to integrate it into the resort as well as they could. That respect is interwoven in the spaces and storytelling of the resort, and it shows in ways that it often doesn’t in many other resorts on the islands.

And, while Oahu is fourth of four in my “favorite major Hawaiian islands” list, it isn’t necessarily there for everyone. The access is a little easier to HNL than the other airports. And, I’ve not really explored much of the North Shore, which my wife insists would change my opinion of Oahu. It might not move it up the list, but it would help.

But, the basic fact of Aulani’s existence flies in the face of the respect they tried to interweave. It’s built on a bunch of man-made lagoons. The snorkeling “reef” is entirely isolated from the ocean (and an up charge!). The vibe strikes me as very self-contained and inward looking, as though this is a “better” (or at least “more Disney”) version of Hawaii. Disney is rather famous for ersatz copies of real environments that feel pretty close if you don’t look carefully, but aren’t really. For example, I can’t visit POFQ without seeing it as a faded, boring, and lifeless copy of the French Quarter.

I wonder if Aulani is just a more convincing example of the same idea. But, it’s also possible that I’m just weird.

You aren't just weird, or if you are, I'm weird in the same way. Disney does an awesome job of creating a family friendly fantasy version of different places - sometimes not even real places. But it isn't a Biergarten in Munich. It isn't a real African safari. It isn't a pub in the UK or pastry shop in Paris (and it really isn't the real Eiffel tower). It certainly isn't the real French Quarter - which is way dirtier and has a lot more drunks and strippers (but the food is WAY better). Aulani is really the strangest - its a fantasy version of Hawaii IN Hawaii. And I get that a lot of Disney fans love Disney BECAUSE its the clean family friendly version of seeing the world that creates a comfortable experience - but you have to decide if that is all you want - because the real French Quarter, a real safari, a real biergarten, real snorkeling - those are awesome experiences that the fantasy version doesn't stand up to - if those things are within your comfort zone. And with Disney's ever escalating price structure, a week in London or Germany or Africa is actually pretty price competitive.

And there is a ton of the world that doesn't even get represented. Did you know Lima, Peru is one of the world's great culinary destinations? We were there last year - the whole thing was amazing - from the Amazon to Machu Pichu...but the food in Lima....

The biggest benefit to DVC is that it enforces regular vacations - the biggest downside in my opinion - it encourages you to spend a lot of those vacations within the Disney bubble

 

[Nursemanit]

I agree with the sentiments on non-WDW DVC locations - and I even feel the same about VGC. Not worth buying points when it is more of a one-and-done. Especially when you can either get a good rate for a cash stay (DL) or there are better options (Aulani).

I am, however, happy to eat my words if DCL designs an Aulani land/sea combo cruise that hits the big four and maybe another South Pacific Island along with a 3-day stay @ Aulani.

 

[Brian Noble]

And with Disney's ever escalating price structure, a week in London or Germany or Africa is actually pretty price competitive.

My daughter just spent six weeks in South Africa doing field work. The last few days were in a big five game preserve. I get the sense the real deal is cheaper, and by a lot. You can do it expensively, but only if you insist.

 

[crisi]

My daughter just spent six weeks in South Africa doing field work. The last few days were in a big five game preserve. I get the sense the real deal is cheaper, and by a lot. You can do it expensively, but only if you insist.

We did Tanzania in 2019 and are going again next year - this time bringing the adult kids. Costco has a deal that includes airfare (from NYC) for about $5k a person for 10 days. Its the deal we did last time, and its a very nice trip in nice hotels with decent food (buffet, but as good as Disney). Ten days in Peru was about $4k a person, excluding airfare to Peru (but all of the intercountry stuff - we started in Lima, spent a few days at at ecoresort on the Amazon, then went up to the Sacred Valley/Machu Picchu/Cuzco, so a number of in country flights) - we did pick up a some of our own meals on that one, although food wasn't expensive except at the very high end places. I've been looking at India - its my next priority (but isn't my travel groups next priority, so we will see), and that is downright cheap once you pay for airfare. Before Covid, I would spend a week in London while my husband did conferences. I stayed with him, so the expensive hotel near Westminster bridge was covered, but if you are willing to stay a bit out on a Tube line, you can get fairly reasonable accommodations (I've stayed in Premier Inns, which are every bit as good as a Disney Value) - and a lot of London's museums are free.

Now, I wouldn't do any of this travel with pre-tween kids. And I didn't. When my kids were little it was Disney. And DCL. And Adventures by Disney. And a beach in Hawaii (Aulani wasn't built yet, but Aulani would have been AWESOME when they were in elementary school), and some other trips that were more kid friendly.

 

[limace]

You all saying this better than I ever could. Now, I know airfares were cheap early this year, but we paid for a family of five to go from the West coast to Italy for about $5k for airfare and ten nights of lovely 2 bedroom apartments in amazing locations.

Going to Disneyland in November on DVC points-and our four day tickets alone are almost half the cost of our Italy trip.

 

[NVDISFamily]

I agree with the sentiments on non-WDW DVC locations - and I even feel the same about VGC. Not worth buying points when it is more of a one-and-done. Especially when you can either get a good rate for a cash stay (DL) or there are better options (Aulani).

I am, however, happy to eat my words if DCL designs an Aulani land/sea combo cruise that hits the big four and maybe another South Pacific Island along with a 3-day stay @ Aulani.

Hey! There are some of us crazy DVC people on the "west coast"

For us, VGC will be our "home base" that we will visit more often (2 to 3 times a year) and WDW will be our crazy fun visits every other year where we go all out and stay in the GV or get multiple rooms for family fun.

I did like the suggestion on the latest version of the DVC Fan YouTube video of a DVC resort in the Caribbean. They said that would be awesome, but transport could/would be an option. Could they do something where it's a all included package where you get transport to the island and a few nights in a premium resort for a fixed number of points? Could they build something on Castaway Cay and make part of it DVC? And I guess that point chart would take our breath away.

 

[Ozznato]

Hello everyone! Thank you all for all of these responses! I am glad I was able to start a robust discussion. I have a question for this crew on process. Let's say I want to book a non-home resort at the 7 month mark. Is the process the same as any other hotel reservation - log in, if I have the points I can make the reservation, etc? Is there any quirk to the process? Thanks!

 

[CarolMN]

Hello everyone! Thank you all for all of these responses! I am glad I was able to start a robust discussion. I have a question for this crew on process. Let's say I want to book a non-home resort at the 7 month mark. Is the process the same as any other hotel reservation - log in, if I have the points I can make the reservation, etc? Is there any quirk to the process? Thanks!

Basically yes, if you have enough points that are/would be valid for the desired stay. Of course there must still be availability for what you want.

 

[crisi]

Hello everyone! Thank you all for all of these responses! I am glad I was able to start a robust discussion. I have a question for this crew on process. Let's say I want to book a non-home resort at the 7 month mark. Is the process the same as any other hotel reservation - log in, if I have the points I can make the reservation, etc? Is there any quirk to the process? Thanks!

The quirk is availability. Very popular resorts and room types (usually the smaller resorts) don't tend to have a lot of availability at seven months - or to put it in my favorite way "no one bought BCV at a premium with a shorter expiration date so they could stay somewhere else most of the time." Its VERY HARD to get Grand Californian at seven months. Its nearly impossible to get any sort of value accommodations at seven months (BLT or BWV for instance). AND there is a big difference between seven months and "I didn't get around to looking until six months" - once that window opens any remaining availability can go fast. One bedrooms are easiest to get at seven months - studios hardest. October through mid-January have traditionally been the most difficult to book.

The common recommendation here is "buy where you don't mind ending up" - then book that at eleven months. If you want to try something else, log in at seven and see what is available to switch to. What doesn't work is telling the party you are traveling with that you will get three studios at VGF for sure at seven months and not booking anything until then. There have been years where by five months out, things are really booked up and you end up with a trip that is a night here and two nights there, and a night in a bigger room (using more points) that you wanted.

If you are flexible, you'll be able to "sleep around" Flexible might mean moving a trip, or switching resorts during your stay, or booking a different room size, or having a list of four resorts that you want to try rather than "BCV or bust."

But yeah, assuming there is availability, you just log in (or call) and book the room like you would book your home resort.

 

[Ozznato]

Hello all! Thanks to everyone here, I have had a lot of productive discussions. My next question at this point is if anyone has any recommendations for an agency to help with a resale purchase? Are there any other personnel (title agent, lawyer, etc) anyone would recommend?

Thanks!