Poly Tower Speculation

[ehh]

The deluxe studio is indeed a room category because there a resorts in which there are dedicated studios.

Of course, at PVB there are all studios and defined that way. Adding a 5th sleeping space under TV doesn’t change the nature of the studio.

So, whatever they do to the current PVB rooms they have to stay as a “deluxe studio” as that is how they are declared.

Thinking more, could they change the definition of a “deluxe studio” for all the resorts then make every deluxe studio go to two beds??? Maybe…

But what they can’t do is convrt them into a resort studio because the language in the multi site POS which defines the two is different. For example, A resort studio doesn’t have a wet sink but deluxe studios do.

Hmmmm. I've mentally categorized Resort Studios as being 'more than' Deluxe Studios due to 2 real beds. But they definitely have lesser kitchen-type functionality, as you call out. I guess I should caveat everything I've said above regarding "Resort Studios" as me meaning a Studio with 2 real beds, not necessarily the less-than-kitchenette arrangement.

And then I remembered OKW Deluxe Studios already have 2 real beds (though all of these are part of 2BRLOs). Jumping off your re-definition idea, could they update the Deluxe Studio definition to be flexible? One permanent bed + 1 flexible bed, or two permanent beds.

The idea that they might do some reconfiguration of PVB Studios to make the combo of PVB + Poly Tower a 'more overall balanced resort' is intriguing to me, and isn't something that I had even considered until I saw the PVB inventory disruption.

EDIT: total aside, but Resort Studios with the less-than-kitchenette and 2 permanent beds, are actually the perfect companion to a 1BR for a 2BRLO. I hope Poly Tower uses this combo.

 

[Sandisw]

Hmmmm. I've mentally categorized Resort Studios as being 'more than' Deluxe Studios due to 2 real beds. But they definitely have lesser kitchen-type functionality, as you call out. I guess I should caveat everything I've said above regarding "Resort Studios" as me meaning a Studio with 2 real beds, not necessarily the less-than-kitchenette arrangement.

And then I remembered OKW Deluxe Studios already have 2 real beds (though all of these are part of 2BRLOs). Jumping off your re-definition idea, could they update the Deluxe Studio definition to be flexible? One permanent bed + 1 flexible bed, or two permanent beds.

The idea that they might do some reconfiguration of PVB Studios to make the combo of PVB + Poly Tower a 'more overall balanced resort' is intriguing to me, and isn't something that I had even considered until I saw the PVB inventory disruption.

EDIT: total aside, but Resort Studios with the less-than-kitchenette and 2 permanent beds, are actually the perfect companion to a 1BR for a 2BRLO. I hope Poly Tower uses this combo.

The PVB studios in those buildings sleep 5…and have been defined that way. Once phases are declared into the condo and built, I just do not believe FL law allows them to be changed. The language in the POS seems to indicate that was well….future phases can have different things but once it’s included, they can’t…

I believe the reason they could not call the resort studios deluxe studios is because they have different features. Whether those are better or worse option is really opinion but the differences are part of the contracts, just like the inn rooms are at VB.

As I mentioned, I do think they could make the queen bed a king bed, but I do not think they can remove the couch from a studio and replace it with a bed, or just have a king size room, in the current rooms.

But, the tower, if added to PVB, would be a completely new phase and all bets are off with what room sizes, and types they put there.

The bigger piece is that any changes to the current rooms would most likely need to come from capital reserves part of the PVB budget, DVD doesn’t have the right to go in and pay for changes to an existing DVC resort because they want to do that.


I think whatever you are seeing has nothing to do with Poly tower or changes being made to the current longhouses.

My prediction is that what we will see at Poly tower will be duo studios, and larger units. I do think we will also see studios but not sure if they will be more of the resort style with two beds or your traditional ones.

ETA: So, your thought that they can renovate the current rooms to something else can’t happen because when people bought that resort, those rooms and the features were designed, not to mention it would make no financial sense for owners to have to pay for changes to existing rooms outside of the normal schedule for refurbishments.

 

[aka Charles]

All this seems really simple (but it’s not, lol)...

Disney has two current goals...

1. Short Term – Disney needs money, now, and lots of it. (Hulu)

1. Long term – Disney wants more control/limits on the resale market.

The Short Term goal explains why the ROFR monster has been hibernating for so long, they don’t want to spend any capital buying back points. It also explains why VGF2 was added to the same association, because they needed it to be a quick turnaround project. To do that, it required only a quick refurb of the BPK rooms. They had no time to make the structural changes necessary to convert some of the rooms to 1-BR, 2-BR, and GV. Without those larger villas, there was no way it was going to be a new association. And it also explains the Cabins at Fort Wilderness. The cabins have to be replaced at this time regardless, and it can be done fairly quickly, one loop at a time. By making it DVC, they can add another stream of upfront revenue, maybe before the end of this year, and still book what has not been converted yet at the cash rates.

The Long Term goal is the sole reason for the restrictions in the first place.
No one at Disney has the desire or the guts to deviate from that goal.

The Polynesian Tower being a new association will meet both those goals.
In the short term, anyone that wants to own there will have to buy direct, no choice. It will be quite a while before there will be any significant resale for it.
In the long term, the restrictions will help give DVD better control of the market and become the new norm.
A side benefit is that when the Poly1 contract ends, they will only have to redo the Poly1 side, while Poly2 will keep going. (Can you imagine both sides shut down and under construction at the same time? Yikes!)

There is no upside, FOR DISNEY, to make any announcement about this unless they have to.
The uncertainty, however, keeps the interest up, keeps people like us talking about it, and allows them to make any adjustments they may need to make without too many complications. Basically, they are getting free advertising.

As far as the future of the current DVC resorts, come 2042 and beyond?
Well, I am sure they have a number of ideas bouncing around, but none of the current upper management are likely to still be around to make those final decisions.
And no one knows what the market will be like at that time, or even who might control/own Disney by then.

So even someone with the highest level inside info can end up being 100% right today, but 100% wrong tomorrow, next year, or in 2042. And everyone here will still be doing our best to figure it out.

 

[KimMcGowan]

As I mentioned, I do think they could make the queen bed a king bed, but I do not think they can remove the couch from a studio and replace it with a bed, or just have a king size room, in the current rooms.

Sandi, why is this? (Once again, not questioning you - really asking because I don’t know.). If the sofa sleeps 2 and they replace it a bed that also sleeps 2 are they actually changing anything?

 

[TheDailyMoo]

There is some sort of inventory disruption event happening to Poly1 Studio inventory in early July 2024 (and likely also June 2024). As I see it, there's no good reason to do anything to Poly1 in 2024, unless it's part of the Poly2 plans. Trying to figure out what that could be.

Possibilities:

• The Poly1 inventory disruption could be totally unrelated.
  • Possible, but fairly low probability. It's likely too big to be inventory pulled for cash reservations, and 2024 is too soon for an on-schedule refurbishment.

Just to add a cash side data point for you to ponder when I called about booking a bounce back trip next July I had my choice of any resort any date in the first half of July but Poly only gave me the option of the 5th through the 10th with no deviation. I took those dates as two separate reps told me that was all they had available. Not sure there's any correlation but take it as you will. I do love me some good detective work and you do it well.

 

[zavandor]

Sandi, why is this? (Once again, not questioning you - really asking because I don’t know.). If the sofa sleeps 2 and they replace it a bed that also sleeps 2 are they actually changing anything?

I think they can do improvements, like when they added the 5th bed to some studios. So they don't have to stick to the exact letter of the POS.
The Murphy beds are, by the letter, not sofa bed, and yet they're switching those and no one questions it because it's a net improvement.
However, they cannot remove key amenities like a kitchenette or the second bathroom. Those are guaranteed to remain as they are.

So, could they replace a queen with a king? Yes they can, if it fits. I doubt it would in a Poly studio, the living area seems cramped as it is.
Could they remove the pull down bed under the TV? 100% no because the studio is declared as sleeping 5.
Could they replace a sofa bed with a second bed? I don't think they could. Certainty would be if the POS declares that the studios has a sofa bed, but I don't know if it's the case. But also, people have bought the Poly knowing there is a sofa that can be used during the day. In a world when pull down Murphy beds exist, it's difficult to make the case that placing a second bed would be an improvement.
Could they replace the second bed at OKW with a Murphy bed? I think they could make the case that when pulled down, it's as comfortable as a bed, so it would be an addition rather than a replacement. But I don't know how the amenities have been declared, so they could have some backlash. And they haven't done it in the last refurbishment, so this shows a willingness to stick with whatever is already there.

However, I do believe DVD can make improvements to an existing part of a resort, as long as they pay for it.
They paid for the construction of the Paddok pool after the resort was already declared with one feature pool. Maybe around the THV addition? So I think it's in theory possible that Poly 1 studios are refurbished (paid bybDVD) to match style or decoration of Poly 2 rooms. Maybe to replace Stitch with Moana? But it seems very very very unlikely to me. They kept different themes in VGF1 and BPK, so I don't see why they'd consider spending money for PVB.

When the Poly was first rumored, there was a project for a much bigger expansion, with towers and a lazy river. Rumors said it didn't go ahead, among other things, because of problems with existing sewage that couldn't accommodate a big expansion. So it's possible that because of the new rooms addition, they need to make some structural work to the existing resort (sewage is an example) that requires to shut down one or more buildings.

 

[drusba]

As to mention above of a Poly1 inventory disruption in early July 2024 and possibly June, the reservation system is currently showing Poly as fully open for reservations for those times. Thus, it was likely a glitch -- one which has happened for 11-month out times at other resorts a number of times in the past.

As to Poly2 being part of the Poly1 DVC, I believe Poly2 will be its own DVC with the Riviera resale restriction. I concluded that when Poly2 was first announced. With VGF2, the announcement stated that it would be part of the original VGF DVC. With Poly2, the announcement carefully avoided mentioning anything to show it would be part of the Poly1 DVC. Instead, it just said that Poly2 was going to be added to the Polynesian Resort.

 

[Amy Krieger]

My apologies Amy.

Hoping so, but happy either way.

We offered on a PVB resale contract this morning and just heard it was accepted. In the end, Polynesian is the right resort for DW and I.

Yay!!! Congrats!!!

 

[🍀TwinsMom]

YC to be announced as soon as RIV is near sold

This is my hope AND fear. We own and love Riviera, but DH’s heart is Yacht Club.

 

[Sandisw]

Sandi, why is this? (Once again, not questioning you - really asking because I don’t know.). If the sofa sleeps 2 and they replace it a bed that also sleeps 2 are they actually changing anything?

It changes the nature of what a deluxe studio is vs, a resort studio/inn room which already exist in the system, even though that change doesn’t impact the sleeping occupancy.

When PVB was sold, and room configurations marketed, they were marketed as is…I think any attempt to completely change it after that fact would be problematic and the contract does mention something to that effect. It may be seen as a material change and require the vote of owners..

Deluxe studios exist at all the resorts and how the rooms were declared at PVB. So, I just don’t think they randomly decide to change it to something different when it didn’t start out that way

But, I think it’s irrelevant because I don’t think they have the money in capital reserves for it and there would be absolutely no reason to do it.. And, as I said, I don’t believe that DVD has the right to use development money to change things…the example of the pool is different as that was an improvement to the resort amenities.

ETA: I know that the OKW studios have the two beds but I think they’d have the same problem there if they tried to replace one with a Murphy/sofa bed…that was how they were first designed and the integrity of things must stay the same.

 

[CarolynFH]

The more I think about it, the more I think that the difference between a Deluxe studio and a Resort studio comes down to the little bar sink and the toaster, both of which are standard equipment in the Deluxe studio but not in the Resort studio, and the refrigerator in the Deluxe studio versus the beverage cooler in the Resort studio. Given that some Deluxe studios sleep four and some sleep five, some have two queen beds and some have sofa beds, I don’t think the number or type of sleeping spaces is the difference. A Resort studio is furnished the same way that an ordinary WDW resort room is furnished, except for the microwave, which is unique to DVC, whereas a Deluxe studio has an actual kitchenette, which none of the ordinary WDW resort rooms have.

As far as replacing a queen bed with a king bed in a studio, I don’t think there’s any problem doing that as long as the studio still sleeps the advertised number of bodies (2 for duo, 4-5 for Deluxe/Resort). If they can replace jetted tubs with bubbler tubs or soaking tubs, I don’t see why they can’t replace a queen bed with a king.

 

[Sandisw]

The more I think about it, the more I think that the difference between a Deluxe studio and a Resort studio comes down to the little bar sink and the toaster, both of which are standard equipment in the Deluxe studio but not in the Resort studio, and the refrigerator in the Deluxe studio versus the beverage cooler in the Resort studio. Given that some Deluxe studios sleep four and some sleep five, some have two queen beds and some have sofa beds, I don’t think the number or type of sleeping spaces is the difference. A Resort studio is furnished the same way that an ordinary WDW resort room is furnished, except for the microwave, which is unique to DVC, whereas a Deluxe studio has an actual kitchenette, which none of the ordinary WDW resort rooms have.

As far as replacing a queen bed with a king bed in a studio, I don’t think there’s any problem doing that as long as the studio still sleeps the advertised number of bodies (2 for duo, 4-5 for Deluxe/Resort). If they can replace jetted tubs with bubbler tubs or soaking tubs, I don’t see why they can’t replace a queen bed with a king.

Definitely think they could swap a king with a queen bed, assuming their is room…but I don’t think they can change the king bed in a 1 bedroom to two queen beds for those that already exist.

The Poly tower could certainly have deluxe studios with both the kitchenette and two beds or whatever elements they want. Or family style suites, etc.

Just don’t believe they have the right to complete change the integrity of any DVC room at currently exists, including PVB rooms.

 

[emchen]

Long term – Disney wants more control/limits on the resale market.

The Long Term goal is the sole reason for the restrictions in the first place.

In the long term, the restrictions will help give DVD better control of the market and become the new norm.

There is no upside, FOR DISNEY, to make any announcement about this unless they have to.

100% agree.

I have been suggesting that it is even more plausible that Disney is oblivious to any doubt. I can imagine that, in DVD decision makers' minds, there is no question. In the case of VGF2 and Fort Wilderness (FW) cabins, there were obvious questions (both are single class of rooms being offered but one will be a new association while the other won't, etc). Therefore, clarification was necessary.

Conversely, Tower Villas at Poly is a free-standing tower exactly like Riviera, Reflections (Imagineered), and VDH. Wouldn't it be obvious to you too if you were a decision-maker at DVD?

 

[CarolynFH]

Definitely think they could swap a king with a queen bed, assuming their is room…but I don’t think they can change the king bed in a 1 bedroom to two queen beds for those that already exist.

The Poly tower could certainly have deluxe studios with both the kitchenette and two beds or whatever elements they want. Or family style suites, etc.

Just don’t believe they have the right to complete change the integrity of any DVC room at currently exists, including PVB rooms.

I fully agree with you there!

If they tried to replace the king bed in a 1+BR to 2 queens, I'd be right there with all the others picketing outside the DVC offices.

 

[Genie+]

It’s smart if the bounceback offer includes some of the Poly DVC acquired with the DVC member cruises.

Here you have guests who repeat visit, l\chose deluxe, and they get to see Poly Tower and DVC desk.

 

[kristenrice]

They could get really unique....

Make a "duo" studio that sleeps 3...King bed with a pull-down bed under the TV...

...AND...

...Offer a connecting deluxe studio that sleeps 5 with a Queen and Murphy Queen with a pull-down under the TV...

 

[Sandisw]

I fully agree with you there!

If they tried to replace the king bed in a 1+BR to 2 queens, I'd be right there with all the others picketing outside the DVC offices.

To add, while DVC has done some things that owners felt they shouldn't, in almost all cases, I think there was language in the contract vague enough to "support" their position on why they did it, but not strong enough to hold the line and why things were changed after owner's questioned them.

That I why I don't think they would every try to change the make up of any of the current rooms because it seems pretty clear to me that the contract doesn't allow for that, unless its for rooms or phases added later, which is what Poly tower would be if it is part of PVB.

I still don't believe it will be...I still think its going to be a new resort and that I bet DVC knows that they won't have any trouble selling it as a new resort...I just can't think of a good reason why they would role it into PVB that benefits them....

 

[Sandisw]

They could get really unique....

Make a "duo" studio that sleeps 3...King bed with a pull-down bed under the TV...

...AND...

...Offer a connecting deluxe studio that sleepd 5 with a Queen and Murphy Queen with a pull-down under the TV...

They absolutely could do this with the rooms at the new tower! Its just they can't do that with the current PVB rooms.

Matter of fact, what a better way to support it being new than to have unique types of rooms that would cause a current PVB owner to want to buy it!!!

 

[tidefan]

I can see DVD continuing to flip-flop on how they approach resorts. I still maintain that it would not surprise me one bit if RR was to ever sell out for them to demolish Aruba at CBR and build "Mediterranean Villas" similar to bungalows/cabins, put them in the existing RR association, and sell new members on the prospect of staying in the existing RR tower...

Aruba is just too close to the skyliner station for them not to do something with that area.

 

[Sandisw]

I can see DVD continuing to flip-flop on how they approach resorts. I still maintain that it would not surprise me one bit if RR was to ever sell out for them to demolish Aruba at CBR and build "Mediterranean Villas" similar to bungalows/cabins, put them in the existing RR association, and sell new members on the prospect of staying in the existing RR tower...

Aruba is just too close to the skyliner station for them not to do something with that area.

I can see that and because RIV already has the restrictions, I don't think it would matter because resale points are already not valid!! As a RIV owner, I could certainly get on board with that.

But, even if they did a new 2nd resort there, I'd be adding on for sure!!!