Poly SAME ASSOCIATION: Finally the answer I've been waiting for!

[KAT4DISNEY]

But let me throw this at you. Poly will definitely sell better as part of the PVB association, we agree. But I think I given its popularity, location, newness it was always going to sell pretty well. RIV and now VDH are clearly on the struggle bus of sales. Why hurt their direct sales further? Because it’s going to right? Does anyone have RIV and VDH doing better sales after this decision? Unless they give some crazy incentives to get them moving but that also goes against their bottom line. Do you think this a move to remove the restrictions all together?

Following these thoughts, no, I don't necessarily think that this is a move to remove the restrictions all together. That IS an option that DVC has though.

The original PVB was expected to sell very quickly because of strong fan base and location and DVC changed original plans and decided it could be a resort of only studios. Then, shockingly, it didn't sell as well as they expected and they blamed it on being only studios. (Little mention of Bungalows). Right now they might be wanting something that does sell easily - no restrictions etc. Of course there will be the shorter contracts but they discovered with VGF that doesn't seem to matter.

RIV and VDH not selling well against it probably isn't a big concern as long as the rooms are booked for cash. They can always do things to encourage sales at those properties. Ultimately DVC sells what it wants to sell.

 

[BrianLo]

I strongly suspected that, but I wouldn't say I "knew" it, given that CCV is a different association from BRV. It always just seemed inconceivable to me that Disney would not take this chance to balance out the most weirdly unbalanced resort (only studios and Bungalows) in DVC, to end up with an overall more attractive, saleable product, while conveniently (for them) knocking several years off the points they are selling. The main counterargument seems to have been "but what about the integrity of the resale restrictions policy?" which always seemed very thin to me as I would expect Disney to be much more concerned about their bottom line than this kind of philosophical objection, and I don't think anyone seriously disputes that PVB2 will sell faster in the same association than it would have done in a new one.

I agree that I’ve always been in the camp they will pick the decision for what is best for their bottom line. Unlike VGF for whatever reason I wasn’t as convinced this was better for their direct sales. Though given the reaction I’m seeing here, there seems to be a lot of people planning for direct now that they’ve made this decision; added onto the upsale to less informed current owners who will add on direct to upgrade room sizes.

Though I’m over here and this decision has made me definitely planning on buying resale Poly (I would have bought direct if it was a separate association). I guess that’s not as pervasive as a plan that I thought it was going to be.

I can’t even explain why I had such a separate reaction to VGF and bought direct for that one personally, but the price delta in resale clearly is a different beast this time around.

My personal downside is I don’t want Poly1 polluting the booking pool for the tower. But upside is I’ll save a bunch of money and probably still buy more points resale than I would have direct.

 

[Disney_escape]

But let me throw this at you. Poly will definitely sell better as part of the PVB association, we agree. But I think I given its popularity, location, newness it was always going to sell pretty well. RIV and now VDH are clearly on the struggle bus of sales. Why hurt their direct sales further? Because it’s going to right? Does anyone have RIV and VDH doing better sales after this decision? Unless they give some crazy incentives to get them moving but that also goes against their bottom line. Do you think this a move to remove the restrictions all together?

I'm not sure that being part of the original PVB association will get them more sales. New DVC buyers will be the same to possibly even less (educated newbies won't be tempted by the 'buy direct so your not restricted'), but existing owners will most likely opt for resale now not direct. Why would they buy direct if there is no extra benefit, it would just be wasting money. And if an existing DVC owner was buying direct to get the Blue card, that would be the same with either association. So my thought is it will cost them direct sales. I know from some of my friends (and me) who had planned on buying direct if it was a new HOA, we are all saying resale now (once it is fully confirmed, papers filed, etc). We currently own both direct and resale, about 1/2 & 1/2

 

[Disney_escape]

Can somebody be able to explain why I can stay at CCV and I bought resale if it's a different association?

Because restrictions started with the Riviera, which was after CCV. You will not be able to use your points at RIV, DLH and presumably the new Cabins. Anything prior to RIV and anything that is added on to a previous HOA you are good to book.

 

[Disney_escape]

Between the time that what you quote was posted and now, DVD has officially confirmed that Poly tower will be part of PVB. So there’s no longer any risk that Disney will change their minds.

So DVD has stated again/clarified that what was said on Thursday was accurate? Do you know if they posted it somewhere?

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Dear Disney Vacation Club, THANK YOU for your decision to include the new Polynesian tower in the existing Polynesian DVC association. You will be hearing from me when those points go on sale... as long as there are some good incentives!

Sincerely,
A happy Polynesian DVC owner

I might reconsider your pole,
If too many people vote no,

DVC might elect to switch gears.

 

[Sandisw]

So DVD has stated again/clarified that what was said on Thursday was accurate? Do you know if they posted it somewhere?

No, but we have had reports of guides who have been told they can now say that the plan right now is to add to PVB.

The thing to now watch now is the filing of the amendments to the POS down this time every year with the budgets. We may get more info that way.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

No, but we have had reports of guides who have been told they can now say that the plan right now is to add to PVB.

The thing to now watch now is the filing of the amendments to the POS down this time every year with the budgets. We may get more info that way.

Full Discloser I was in the New Association camp, and now I'm in the Buy Somewhere Else camp!

However, when I spoke with my Guide yesterday, His disclaimer that came after the "our CURRENT Plan is" was not subtle.

But guides are saying the current plan statement was made and right now is accurate

 

[New Mouse]

Guides will say anything if they think it will help them make a sale. They are about the same as a new car salesman.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Guides will say anything if they think it will help them make a sale. They are about the same as a new car salesman.

Not sure that's true,

I'm pretty sure the licensing boards would frown on that.

 

[CarolynFH]

So DVD has stated again/clarified that what was said on Thursday was accurate? Do you know if they posted it somewhere?

As above, no, not posted, but guides are allowed to say that’s the current plan. I have no dog in this fight because we’re not in the market for more points anywhere, but would I rush out and buy Poly resale if I were? No, I personally would not.

Now, if you’re interested in other possibilities, you might want to look at this thread: https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-club-level-and-home-resort-survey.3935147/

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Not sure that's true,

I'm pretty sure the licensing boards would frown on that.

Licensing board frowns? Hah, you’ve clearly never been to a timeshare presentation for any other system outside of Disney in FL. Disney isn’t nearly as egregious, but yeah, timeshare salespeople in the other systems are the worst of the worst, Significantly more lies than car salespeople. Probably on par with people who cold-call pump & dump stocks. No timeshare salesperson is really worrying about regulatory ramifications. The only thing holding Disney salespeople back is Disney.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Licensing board frowns? Hah, you’ve clearly never been to a timeshare presentation for any other system outside of Disney in FL. Disney isn’t nearly as egregious, but yeah, timeshare salespeople in the other systems are the worst of the worst, Significantly more lies than car salespeople. Probably on par with people who cold-call pump & dump stocks. No timeshare salesperson is really worrying about regulatory ramifications. The only thing holding Disney salespeople back is Disney.

No, I have. I have had them pay me to leave ….. time being money and all. I can waste a lot of a sales persons time

and if truth be told my father was a car dealer… so yea you don’t need to apologies

but if sale people aren’t worried about breaking the law that’s because they have never been reported or sued ….

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

A few posts mention the delta between resale and direct. Remember what happened to VGF resale when DVC stopped all direct sales for a time? It also doesn't necessarily take many contracts being ROFR'd to raise the resale prices at a resort.
Point is - DVC has a lot of control over resale pricing via judicious use of ROFR.

However most DVC is still sold to people that have little knowledge of DVC. It is of course a plus to have existing owners purchase as that's a supportive audience but it isn't their main focus. There always are those that will and those that won't based on different criteria.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I'm not sure that being part of the original PVB association will get them more sales. New DVC buyers will be the same to possibly even less (educated newbies won't be tempted by the 'buy direct so your not restricted'), but existing owners will most likely opt for resale now not direct. Why would they buy direct if there is no extra benefit, it would just be wasting money. And if an existing DVC owner was buying direct to get the Blue card, that would be the same with either association. So my thought is it will cost them direct sales. I know from some of my friends (and me) who had planned on buying direct if it was a new HOA, we are all saying resale now (once it is fully confirmed, papers filed, etc). We currently own both direct and resale, about 1/2 & 1/2

I think you and I have similar minds about all this but realistically speaking, existing members probably make a much smaller percentage of direct purchases than new buyers. Disney wants to sell more direct points, and specifically to new members, so they’re making the bet that it’s more appealing to a new buyers to keep it the same and fold it into O14 resort pool. And I can see how that’s appealing as a new buyer, especially if they’re not familiar with the resale market. Then again, I’m one of those who fell for the “buy at RIV because restrictions are the way forward” (and clearly they meant really far forward in the future) so if they made it a new association and sold it with restrictions I still think it would sell, especially because of how beloved Poly is and how great the location is

I, too, would have bought direct if it had been a new association but I lucked out since my resale PVB passed ROFR the day before the news dropped so I’m happy to use the mix of all my direct and resale points there and maybe buy more direct at RIV if incentives get any better in the lead up to the tower opening and see what happens with the whisperings about this new trust, in case that throws everything into uncharted territory.

I guess we’ll just have to see how sales do post the initial frenzy to see if their gamble was worth it.

 

[tidefan]

I think you and I have similar minds about all this but realistically speaking, existing members probably make a much smaller percentage of direct purchases than new buyers. Disney wants to sell more direct points, and specifically to new members, so they’re making the bet that it’s more appealing to a new buyers to keep it the same and fold it into O14 resort pool. And I can see how that’s appealing as a new buyer, especially if they’re not familiar with the resale market. Then again, I’m one of those who fell for the “buy at RIV because restrictions are the way forward” (and clearly they meant really far forward in the future) so if they made it a new association and sold it with restrictions I still think it would sell, especially because of how beloved Poly is and how great the location is

I, too, would have bought direct if it had been a new association but I lucked out since my resale PVB passed ROFR the day before the news dropped so I’m happy to use the mix of all my direct and resale points there and maybe buy more direct at RIV if incentives get any better in the lead up to the tower opening and see what happens with the whisperings about this new trust, in case that throws everything into uncharted territory.

I guess we’ll just have to see how sales do post the initial frenzy to see if their gamble was worth it.

I don't know. I think that add-on sales could be a much bigger portion than they may be letting on. If they were different associations, what incentive would there be to buy points at Poly2 if you couldn't combine them with your Poly1 points? I know that I wouldn't want to have to buy 150-ish additional points just to get an occasional one or two bedroom.

That said, VGF worked the exact opposite for me (and a number of other owners of VGF1 I talked with). I felt there that by adding the hotel rooms to the same association it devalued our membership as it introduced too much competition into the mix for especially the DLX Studios. Based on what I've seen, that is a much harder get at 7-11 months that even what it was. I think that had they had some foresight and mixed it up a bit in BPK (such as having a subset of the hotel room units with King beds, for instance, or, just by making them regular studios), it would have been a better pairing.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

No, I have. I have had them pay me to leave ….. time being money and all. I can waste a lot of a sales persons time

and if truth be told my father was a car dealer… so yea you don’t need to apologies

but if sale people aren’t worried about breaking the law that’s because they have never been reported or sued ….

They have been sued though. (Not Disney, but the other slimier developers). They always win. “Mere puffery” and all. All that really matters is what’s in writing, not the words coming out of the salespersons mouth.

 

[Sandisw]

They have been sued though. (Not Disney, but the other slimier developers). They always win. “Mere puffery” and all. All that really matters is what’s in writing, not the words coming out of the salespersons mouth.

This is true, but given my guide was not allowed to say anything Friday to even acknowledge what was said, to guides proactively telling owners that it is the current plan, is at least an indication that a decision has been made, subject to change of course.

But, I definitely would not buy PVB resale just yet without knowing more officially…officially being in writing and filed documents.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I don't know. I think that add-on sales could be a much bigger portion than they may be letting on. If they were different associations, what incentive would there be to buy points at Poly2 if you couldn't combine them with your Poly1 points? I know that I wouldn't want to have to buy 150-ish additional points just to get an occasional one or two bedroom.

That said, VGF worked the exact opposite for me (and a number of other owners of VGF1 I talked with). I felt there that by adding the hotel rooms to the same association it devalued our membership as it introduced too much competition into the mix for especially the DLX Studios. Based on what I've seen, that is a much harder get at 7-11 months that even what it was. I think that had they had some foresight and mixed it up a bit in BPK (such as having a subset of the hotel room units with King beds, for instance, or, just by making them regular studios), it would have been a better pairing.

Oh no doubt, we DVC obsessed weirdos definitely buy direct points pretty regularly. But I feel like most buy smaller contracts, I can’t see too many existing buyers buying 200-300+ point contracts direct. My initial direct purchase was 250 pts (2 contracts) and for me, I don’t really see the necessity to buy a big contract direct again (unless restrictions continue). Idk maybe I’m wrong, surely
someone here has the data to let us know.

I know I’m in the minority but I see the tower as separate from PVB1. The longhouses, complete set of rooms or not, followed the original style of an OG WDW hotel, that’s super cool to me. I love their feel and the space they offer and the tower will be its modern, much younger cousin. And I bought at PVB knowing the tower was on the horizon and resale might not get me in! I loved them enough on their own. Buy where you want to stay and don’t expect anything other than that, and all.

The incentive to buy at the tower would have been that, once again, restrictions are here to stay so it starts becoming less of a factor to consider and just the new way of DVC, and if I love the tower enough, I’ll buy there. I’m not saying it’s a strong motivator at first, but if DVD stuck true to their plans, even the most stubborn anti-restriction person would eventually have to see that that’s the course chosen to ensure people stop buying resale (as many are now flocking to do). But hey-ho, I benefit in this situation immensely so where I standby in saying that it’s a strange decision from a business tactic to make it the same association with no restrictions, it was one that benefits us members so I’ll take it!

If you only stay at 1-2 bedrooms occasionally then shouldn’t the addition of studios at BPK have been a welcome thing? More of those lower pt, popular rooms? I will admit I’ve never stayed in the deluxe studio rooms in the original building so I don’t really know why they’re that much better than the studios over at BPK, though I’m sure they are considering the popularity. And saying this, won’t new tower owners start taking up a lot of reservations for the cheaper, more spacious long house rooms? Do we think this will hurt current owners who prefer the studios?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Oh no doubt, we DVC obsessed weirdos definitely buy direct points pretty regularly. But I feel like most buy smaller contracts, I can’t see too many existing buyers buying 200-300+ point contracts direct. My initial direct purchase was 250 pts (2 contracts) and for me, I don’t really see the necessity to buy a big contract direct again (unless restrictions continue). Idk maybe I’m wrong, surely
someone here has the data to let us know.

I know I’m in the minority but I see the tower as separate from PVB1. The longhouses, complete set of rooms or not, followed the original style of an OG WDW hotel, that’s super cool to me. I love their feel and the space they offer and the tower will be its modern, much younger cousin. And I bought at PVB knowing the tower was on the horizon and resale might not get me in! I loved them enough on their own. Buy where you want to stay and don’t expect anything other than that, and all.

The incentive to buy at the tower would have been that, once again, restrictions are here to stay so it starts becoming less of a factor to consider and just the new way of DVC, and if I love the tower enough, I’ll buy there. I’m not saying it’s a strong motivator at first, but if DVD stuck true to their plans, even the most stubborn anti-restriction person would eventually have to see that that’s the course chosen to ensure people stop buying resale (as many are now flocking to do). But hey-ho, I benefit in this situation immensely so where I standby in saying that it’s a strange decision from a business tactic to make it the same association with no restrictions, it was one that benefits us members so I’ll take it!

If you only stay at 1-2 bedrooms occasionally then shouldn’t the addition of studios at BPK have been a welcome thing? More of those lower pt, popular rooms? I will admit I’ve never stayed in the deluxe studio rooms in the original building so I don’t really know why they’re that much better than the studios over at BPK, though I’m sure they are considering the popularity. And saying this, won’t new tower owners start taking up a lot of reservations for the cheaper, more spacious long house rooms? Do we think this will hurt current owners who prefer the studios?

You still have to buy direct to use the points at Riviera and VDH. Likely FW cabins too and others barring a change of direction by DVC. What you get with the tower becoming part of the existing PVB is that if you are a direct buyer and want or need to sell the points will be useable at all of the original 14 resorts vs restricted to one.