Politics: Meet the Dominionists (be afraid)

[auntpolly]

The way some people write, Christians must be more dangerous than Pirates. Grrrrrrr...we're coming to get you!

If we're talking about the Christians against church and state separation, I'll go with the pirates, I will, says I, shiver me timbers.

 

[chobie]

Chirstians are not supposed to judge. If we do, we are wrong. I see no reinterpretation of that in my comments. What are you referring to?

Its also funny how you changed the subject when I pointed out a different way of looking at scripture and was able to back up my point. I not you didn't answer my question.

Jesus also prayed openly in public, as did the disciples. The verse you qwuote is a warning against what I call showboat prayer (prayers said just to impress others).

Praying in public place where there is a captive audience (schools for example) would fit my description of a "showboat" prayer. Christians praying at public events that have nothing to do with religion would also fit my description of a "showboat prayer". I think Jesus might agree with me, but again its all up to interpretation.

 

[brerrabbit]

I totally agree with you WDWHound. I to am a Methodist and I never see coverage of the good things done. Thats because in the media those stories just don't make the news. Contreversy sells, if it bleeds it leads, thats what gets viewers and sells papers. I certainly understand that stereotyping goes on but in reality our stereotyping is driven by the media that covers the contreversial subjects. Show a couple of hundred nut jobs who are doing something that does not follow any organized religious beliefs but say that they are doing it in the name of God, Allah, Jesus, or Budda and automatically viewers or readers immediatly form a mental image of the group and the cause they are following as nut jobs. I do the things I do with and through my church to help others and to follow the teachings of my faith. Our church has bought a cargo container and finished it out as a mobile medical facility to be sent to the Tsunami area to provide medical facilities to the people there. No political agenda, it will provide services to anyone who needs them regardless of their faith, nationality or political affiliation. I will be going with a group from our church to Mexico this summer to help build a school in a fishing village there so that the towns children don't have to travel 100 miles to go to school. We work in our community every day to try and make it a better place. We do not judge the people we help we simply try to follow the faiths teachings and love and care for our fellow man. It is so easy to segregate the world into groups and write them off in large chunks because a few of their members lean to the radical side. But in the end that is what causes hate. I am a Christian, and a conservative. However that does not mean I agree with every thing George Bush and the Republican party does. It does not mean that I cannot look at proclaimed Christian doing the wrong thing and not say he is wrong. I cannot and will not support every Christian and Conservative in the world just because they say the are one. By that same process I would think that no Liberal could actually support every one who says the are Liberal. We all have the ability to see right from wrong regardless of who says it. I personally thank God for that fact every day. But thats just me.

 

[wvrevy]

I've commended you, Zippa, for the work that you do with prisoners. I've also commended you, Hound, on your thoughtful viewpoint. However, you're falling into the same trap that the Republicans have become so fond of lately. You're blaming a vast "liberal media" conspiracy for the way outsiders view your religion. I'm sorry, but I just find that to be foolish. When idiots like Dobson go out of their way to promote intolerance against gays, where are all these great numbers of Christians you two claim exist that are speaking out against that kind of nonsense ? When Pat Robertson gets on tv and says that liberal judges are a greater threat than any "plane flying into a building", where are the mass denunciations of his moronic comments ? Why is it that these two lead groups that count hundreds of thousands - if not more - of members if tolerance towards the views of others is truly the watchword of "the majority" of Christians ?

There is an old saying: "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." Aside from living your own life as an example of what a "cristian" should really be (assuming you do so, since I don't really know either of you), what have you done to stop lunatics like Dobson and Robertson from gaining more and more power and support ? Why should anybody take your word that these CINO's (Christians in Name Only) aren't the actual majority, while people that really try to live their lives by the WWJD principle aren't, in actuality, the minority ?

Finally, no...actual christians don't scare me, even though I do happen to think that they're fooling themselves into believing something simply because they want to, not because it's real. But people like those mentioned in the article scare the hell outta me, simply because they want to impose their view on me and everyone else living in this country. Their the ones that think being like "the Netherlands" is a bad thing, simply because, there, the government keeps it's nose out of religion and religion keeps it's nose out of the government.

We have always been a secular nation. People that want to see that changed do scare me...particularly when they are gaining more and more support under the bush administration.

 

[WDWHound]

Praying in public place where there is a captive audience (schools for example) would fit my description of a "showboat" prayer. Christians praying at public events that have nothing to do with religion would also fit my description of a "showboat prayer". I think Jesus might agree with me, but again its all up to interpretation.

And here we might find some agreement. A prayer just to show others yoiu are praying is wrong. The problem comes in determining motavation. I actaully agree with you that many, many times the motavation is not what it should be, but I hesitate to to judge all public prayer by this standard.

Praying to a captive audience is rude if nothing else and I agree that Jesus would probably not approve. praying at non religious event, well, thats a tougher call. We Christians share our joys and concerns with each other whenever we meet, and this often results in public group prayer in unusual places. However, I agree that it should be done with considferation for others.

Hers the problem I have with forbidding public prayer on government property. Since the need or desire to pray as a group can arrise anywhere, anytime (we live our faith 24/7), such restrictions would place restrictions on the practive of our faith. At the same time I don't like showboating and I don't want to force others to take part. I would think a compromise protect the rights of no Christians whiole still allowing public prayer in some forms on governemnt property. The extermes of not allowing it or of forcing prayer on everyone cant be the only options.

 

[auntpolly]

Praying to a captive audience is rude if nothing else and I agree that Jesus would probably not approve. praying at non religious event, well, thats a tougher call. We Christians share our joys and concerns with each other whenever we meet, and this often results in public group prayer in unusual places. However, I agree that it should be done with considferation for others.

The one public place that I wish we'd all agree on is schools. If you are praying in public in a school, I think you are taking away the rights of the child and the parent to a public education.

Kids can pray all they want in school - just not lead others in prayer.

 

[chobie]

And here we might find some agreement. A prayer just to show others yoiu are praying is wrong. The problem comes in determining motavation. I actaully agree with you that many, many times the motavation is not what it should be, but I hesitate to to judge all public prayer by this standard.

Praying to a captive audience is rude if nothing else and I agree that Jesus would probably not approve. praying at non religious event, well, thats a tougher call. We Christians share our joys and concerns with each other whenever we meet, and this often results in public group prayer in unusual places. However, I agree that it should be done with considferation for others.

Hers the problem I have with forbidding public prayer on government property. Since the need or desire to pray as a group can arrise anywhere, anytime (we live our faith 24/7), such restrictions would place restrictions on the practive of our faith. At the same time I don't like showboating and I don't want to force others to take part. I would think a compromise protect the rights of no Christians whiole still allowing public prayer in some forms on governemnt property. The extermes of not allowing it or of forcing prayer on everyone cant be the only options.

I can't help but think that people who feel compelled to make a public showing of their faith are being the hypocrites like Jesus described. Is there something in the Bible that says that people have to pray in public? Can they not save their public prayers for when they're off of government property and pray silently until they can make their public spectacle?

If the need to make a public show of praying is so great, why not just walk over to non-governmental property?

Why, because that would not be making the political statement of "we're Christians in a Christian nation and we'll pray in public if we want to".

 

[wvrevy]

And here we might find some agreement. A prayer just to show others yoiu are praying is wrong. The problem comes in determining motavation. I actaully agree with you that many, many times the motavation is not what it should be, but I hesitate to to judge all public prayer by this standard.

Praying to a captive audience is rude if nothing else and I agree that Jesus would probably not approve. praying at non religious event, well, thats a tougher call. We Christians share our joys and concerns with each other whenever we meet, and this often results in public group prayer in unusual places. However, I agree that it should be done with considferation for others.

Hers the problem I have with forbidding public prayer on government property. Since the need or desire to pray as a group can arrise anywhere, anytime (we live our faith 24/7), such restrictions would place restrictions on the practive of our faith. At the same time I don't like showboating and I don't want to force others to take part. I would think a compromise protect the rights of no Christians whiole still allowing public prayer in some forms on governemnt property. The extermes of not allowing it or of forcing prayer on everyone cant be the only options.

Fine...So you allow "voluntary" prayer in, say, a school. What about the single Jewish kid that chooses not to take part ? Any chance that one of those good little christian boys and girls would choose to tease him about it ? Or maybe get a little rougher than mere teasing ?

Ok, so school's a bad idea...How about at the office ? Say I've got a devout boss that organizes a "prayer group" at lunch once a week, and he wants everyone to join him. Now, most of the people I work with are probably christians, so they choose to do so. I, however, would rather spend my time at Wendy's preparing for my heart attack in a couple decades and reading the newspaper. When time comes up for promotion, if I don't get picked...is it because I wasn't good at my job or is it because I didn't join the prayer group when Suzi down the hall did?

If a judge chooses to pray in his courtroom, how comfortable would you be taking a case in front of him if it involved religion, and you were on the other side ? How welcome would you feel in that town in North Carolina where that idiot preacher put the sign out front saying the Torah should be flushed if you happened to be a Muslim ?

Religion is and should be a private thing. Public group prayer is not necessary for your religion, and it is likely to make anyone around that feels differently extremely uncomfortable. So, how is it "restricting" to say that it shouldn't be done ?

 

[septbride2002]

I am starting to feel SO LONELY in my own country. Christian this; Christian that. Christians are not being tolerated. Christians cannot express their religious beliefs.

I am going to use very tough language. If it offends then so what I am tired of being ignored. Your bible is not my bible do not quote it to me as how I should live my life. Your symbols are not my symbols do not put them there for me to view. You have usurped my Ten Commandments. They are not yours to do with as you please. Moses brought them down from Mt. Sinai for the people of Israel. If you believe in them so much then follow them as Moses did. Keep the Sabboth holy be observing it on Saturday not Sunday. Do not make graven images like statues, icons, crosses with jesus on it and worship them. If it is so important to have these commandments on government buildings where is my Star of David that belongs with it. Yes, chaplains have opened congress. G-d is cited in opening the supreme court but does the clerk say Christian G-d or just G-d. When was the last time a Rabbi opened an ignagural(sic) with a prayer. When was the last time congress had a Rabbi open a new session with a prayer.

I was there in school when prayers were still read once a week at assembly. The principal used the King James Version to read from never The Torah. How was I included in this prayer?

By the way the 14th admendment was passed so that the southern states could not treat blacks as second class citizens using 'states rights' as an excuse. They did so anyway and it took years to strip away Jim Crow. The Supreme Court did not overstep its bounds on the 'wall' analogy.

In today's society with 'competing' religious organizations which group should 'influence' government. Bhuddism is becoming a significant minority with so many Asians now living here so maybe Bhuddism should have a say in government actions.

There are several posters on this board who have demonstrated an understanding of my feelings on these topics and have not tried to 'preach'. They know who they are and I have respect for them. They are true believers in separation. On the other hand there are others who be word believe that I am 'wrong' and they are 'right' so I am part of the Christian bashing that I acknowledge does go on by some. I bash no one. I could care less how you live your religious life as long as you keep it out of my life. And the only way to do that is to not require moral legislation.

I am not a religious person; think that evolution is fact(theory as defined by science); believe that life does not begin at conception, etc. but am proud of my heritage as a Jew and do not wish to have to follow someone else's moral values when they conflict with my heritage. My wife has had no family beyond her parents because 'christians' derided her beliefs so I will strongly and fiercely defend the separation of church and state.

Very well said. I think we all need to remind ourselves that this board is full of people who are not of Christian faith and we should remain respectful of their feelings in our post.

~Amanda

 

[WDWHound]

You're blaming a vast "liberal media" conspiracy for the way outsiders view your religion. I'm sorry, but I just find that to be foolish. When idiots like Dobson go out of their way to promote intolerance against gays, where are all these great numbers of Christians you two claim exist that are speaking out against that kind of nonsense ?

I was afraid that I would convey the "liberal media" thing, but thats not wehat i was trying to say. Liberal or conservativew has nothiong to do with it. The media covers contraversy and will therefore never cover reasonable Christians because we are not contraversial.

When Pat Robertson gets on tv and says that liberal judges are a greater threat than any "plane flying into a building", where are the mass denunciations of his moronic comments ? Why is it that these two lead groups that count hundreds of thousands - if not more - of members if tolerance towards the views of others is truly the watchword of "the majority" of Christians ?

Mt denomination (Methodist) has 20 million Christians alone and that is just one denomination. The total number of Christians out there dwarves the number of followers of Robinson and the like. You think he represent our viewpoint? Here is a pat Roberstson Quote: "He said, 'You're supposed to be nice to Episcopalians, Presbyterians and Methodists ... Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist.'

Yeah, he really represents us and our views. (LOL) You are getting your views of Christianity from extremists. I agree we should speak out more, but we do speak out. I provided you an example where we did speak out with the media present and were ignored in favor of cover contraversy.

Again, the mainstream Christian is not what the extremist make you think we are. We may commit the sin of being too silent (though its hard to tell when we are allowed to express our beleifs these days), but most of use do not share the views of the Pat Robertsons of the world.

There is an old saying: "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." Aside from living your own life as an example of what a "cristian" should really be (assuming you do so, since I don't really know either of you), what have you done to stop lunatics like Dobson and Robertson from gaining more and more power and support ? Why should anybody take your word that these CINO's (Christians in Name Only) aren't the actual majority, while people that really try to live their lives by the WWJD principle aren't, in actuality, the minority ?

And why should you assume the are the minority? Why not go into the Churches and actually talk to them? The medea will never give you an accurate picture. They only cover the idiots like Robertson. Go talk to the people who practice the faith. You will find people working to help the poor, who practivce tolerance for the faiths of others, who struggle with and debate Biblical interpretations in the light of modern society. The only acurate way to understand Christians is to get to know them, the media will never give you an accurate picture.

And so I offer you aninvitation. If you are ever in Round Rock, please come visit us at St. Phillips. We wont try to convert you and you will be encouraged to be completely honest with us on how you feel regarding our faith. Most of all, you would be welcome.Perhaps we could come to understand each other better.

 

[DisDuck]

WV.. said a number of things that I personally agree with and in some fashion have experienced.

In elementary school my principal would lead a prayer at our weekly assembly. She started it by saying 'let us bow our heads' then she would read a passage from the KJV. Now Jews do not bow their heads in prayer (except when when the ark is opened and The Torah is being removed). So I did feel uncomfortable and 'different'. Then in 1958/59 I got beaten up for saying that Jesus was a Jew.

Now there are many orthodox jews who work on Wall Street. They manage to pray everyday and yet keep it private and out of the work place so why is that so hard to do for Christians. What they do is find a room for rent or unused during lunch time, meet and recite the mid-day prayer. I have even seen some orthodox jews recite silently the morning prayer on the NYC subway. Again if it is possible for them to keep it private then why not christians. It seems to me that some Christians feel it imperative that there be a public display of worship and if that is curtailed then they are being bashed and deprived of religious freedom by the 'secular world'.

If Jews can keep praying private then so can christians.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

So, you don't think "SpongeDob" is a nutcase?

I saw and heard, Mr. Dobson say on TV that he had no problems with SpongeBob. I was very relieved.

 

[auntpolly]

If Jews can keep praying private then so can christians.

And a lot of us do all the time.


The only thing I get into arguments with my Jewish friends about is when we see people in restaurants, for example, holding hands and prayer before their meal. One of my friends in particular really hates this, but I just can't see why. I mean, it's not something I'm comfortable doing, but I think they certainly have the right to do it and I don't see how it's bothering anyone for them to practice their faith in the way they believe they should.

 

[WDWHound]

Fine...So you allow "voluntary" prayer in, say, a school. What about the single Jewish kid that chooses not to take part ? Any chance that one of those good little christian boys and girls would choose to tease him about it ? Or maybe get a little rougher than mere teasing ?

An organized group prayer would not be approriate. Three students praying for the health of a sick friend upon hearing the friend is in a hospital would be. One requires particapation, the other is a spopnatious act.

Ok, so school's a bad idea...How about at the office ? Say I've got a devout boss that organizes a "prayer group" at lunch once a week, and he wants everyone to join him. Now, most of the people I work with are probably christians, so they choose to do so. I, however, would rather spend my time at Wendy's preparing for my heart attack in a couple decades and reading the newspaper. When time comes up for promotion, if I don't get picked...is it because I wasn't good at my job or is it because I didn't join the prayer group when Suzi down the hall did?

The problem here is not prayer, its the promotion policy. And again, y9ou are talking about organized prayer.

If a judge chooses to pray in his courtroom, how comfortable would you be taking a case in front of him if it involved religion, and you were on the other side ? How welcome would you feel in that town in North Carolina where that idiot preacher put the sign out front saying the Torah should be flushed if you happened to be a Muslim ?

I would see no reason for a judge to pray in a courtroom, and it fails to meet my requirement of not forcing others to participate, so I would not be for this.

Religion is and should be a private thing. Public group prayer is not necessary for your religion, and it is likely to make anyone around that feels differently extremely uncomfortable. So, how is it "restricting" to say that it shouldn't be done ?

Sorry, but I cant agree. Jesus was anything but private about his faith. Now, I should be respectful and I should not hound or try to convert you, but I refuse to practice my faith only in private. Jesus calls us to do just the oposite and I will continue to live my faith puplicly, striving at all times to respect the rights and beleifs of others as I do so.

 

[WDWHound]

If Jews can keep praying private then so can christians.

Excuse me Mr. Duck. I know you respect my faith, as I respect yours, but please do not tell me I must live my faith by the standards of yours. You get angry when some Christians do that to you (and rightfully so), so please do not repeat their mistake.

 

[What the Heck]

Fine...So you allow "voluntary" prayer in, say, a school. What about the single Jewish kid that chooses not to take part ? Any chance that one of those good little christian boys and girls would choose to tease him about it ? Or maybe get a little rougher than mere teasing ?

Ok, so school's a bad idea...How about at the office ? Say I've got a devout boss that organizes a "prayer group" at lunch once a week, and he wants everyone to join him. Now, most of the people I work with are probably christians, so they choose to do so. I, however, would rather spend my time at Wendy's preparing for my heart attack in a couple decades and reading the newspaper. When time comes up for promotion, if I don't get picked...is it because I wasn't good at my job or is it because I didn't join the prayer group when Suzi down the hall did?

If a judge chooses to pray in his courtroom, how comfortable would you be taking a case in front of him if it involved religion, and you were on the other side ? How welcome would you feel in that town in North Carolina where that idiot preacher put the sign out front saying the Torah should be flushed if you happened to be a Muslim ?

Religion is and should be a private thing. Public group prayer is not necessary for your religion, and it is likely to make anyone around that feels differently extremely uncomfortable. So, how is it "restricting" to say that it shouldn't be done ?

So it is ok for one religion to have the right over all other? Your scenario in the school depicts what could happen (and often does) in many schools anyway - one child being picked out for whatever reason. What is the answer? Taking away the children's right to pray I don't believe is a good one. Could something like you suggest happen? Certainly. But it's already happening now for different reasons.

As for the situation at work, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like there could be a very nice legal case, depending on merits of Ms. Suzi and yourself.

In the courts, judges have been excluded from cases for even less. If the case involving religion remains in front of a very religious judge, it's either a strong case for appeal or you have a very poor lawyer.

So religion should be only a private thing? How many others will take that argument and say we shouldn't have churches? Leaving the fringe for a moment, why should religion only be a private thing? Why is someone's faith something they have to keep concealed? That is against some's faith.

Funny thing is, I am one who believes in private prayer. I don't go out of my way to loudly pray anywhere, even in church. But, I don't believe it is right to deny others their freedom of speech or their freedom of religion as they perceive it to be . I don't have the right to tell them how they should practice their religion.

 

[chobie]

You have not answered the question as to how not being allowed to make a public show of praying on government property is restricting your right to practice your religion.

 

[jgmklmhem]

Religion is and should be a private thing. Public group prayer is not necessary for your religion, and it is likely to make anyone around that feels differently extremely uncomfortable. So, how is it "restricting" to say that it shouldn't be done ?

Since you don't practice a religion how would you know if it is or should be anything. Jesus prayed openly and preached very publically. I will take my cues from how he lived his life and not from one Bible passage about boastful prayers or from someone who doesn't believe at all. As for making someone who is different feel uncomfortable how is that any different from making me feel uncomfortable keeping my religion bottled up. Whose uncomfortability wins.

And for the broad brush you paint Christians with usinf Robertson, Dobson etc as examples and then claiming we should fight them. How is that any different than painting Muslims with the hate of thier most outspoken leaders Osama etc. Constantly on these boards people are derided for making the terrorist/Muslim connection....but you feel it is ok to make the Christian/fanatic connection so easily.

To touch on the "not a Christain nation" theme. I agree to a point but for any society to suvive there has to be a common set of agreed upon values. With a country as diverse as this one that would never happen so in many cases the majority's values will apply. People who don't follow a religion or don't do it closely don't seem to grasp that those of us who do don't make a dissconnect in our lives. We are what we believe and if I get elected to an office I will not vote for a bill my values disagree with and I will propose bills that my values do agree with. So what if I base them on religion they are still my values. Just as an atheist has whatever values I have mine. Just because theirs don't come from religion it makes them more valid? I don't think that they do nor should they. As for those who say I shouldn't legislate my values well then don't elect me. We can't live in a valueless society. And if my values don't jive with yours then don't vote for me. We can't be respectful of all values because you will get to the point where everything goes. An extreme example would be some ancient tribal religions believe in human sacrifice....should we allow it and be respectful of their heritage and beliefs. Most would say no....but why...because our values say it is bad to kill an innocent person....but why are our beliefs in this more valid than theirs. It is an extreme example but when it comes to smaller things the question is always asked. Whose values are more valid. For better or worse in many cases the majority will rule. Political beliefs are just as much a religion as Catholic in many cases so why are they valid and religious beliefs not valid in a government setting. There will never be a seperation between church and state because some peoples churches are the state and because those of us who believe in Christ are that way all the way through...there is no swich to turn off and on so unless only non-believers are allowed to be elected religious beliefs will dictate how those people vote just as political beliefs will dictate how others would vote. Just because my religion has a higher power of God and Jesus in then should make them any less valid than those whose beliefs don't and only have their politcal beliefs to guide them.

 

[sodaseller]

You have usurped my Ten Commandments. They are not yours to do with as you please. Moses brought them down from Mt. Sinai for the people of Israel. If you believe in them so much then follow them as Moses did. Keep the Sabboth holy be observing it on Saturday not Sunday. Do not make graven images like statues, icons, crosses with jesus on it and worship them. If it is so important to have these commandments on government buildings where is my Star of David that belongs with it. Yes, chaplains have opened congress. G-d is cited in opening the supreme court but does the clerk say Christian G-d or just G-d. When was the last time a Rabbi opened an ignagural(sic) with a prayer. When was the last time congress had a Rabbi open a new session with a prayer.

I think the Decalogue Arguments is even a bit more complex than represented. The tablet written by Yahweh was destroyed - later scribes "filled in" what He said that first time to something a bit more warm-spirited. The Decalogue that did survive, at least originally, has some odd precepts for Christians to embrace

The first familiar Decalogue from Exodus 20

Then God delivered all these commandments:
2
"I, the LORD, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.
3
You shall not have other gods besides me.
4
You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth;
5
2 you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation;
6
but bestowing mercy down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7
"You shall not take the name of the LORD, your God, in vain. For the LORD will not leave unpunished him who takes his name in vain.
8
"Remember to keep holy the sabbath day.
9
Six days you may labor and do all your work,
10
but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD, your God. No work may be done then either by you, or your son or daughter, or your male or female slave, or your beast, or by the alien who lives with you.
11
In six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the LORD has blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
12
"Honor your father and your mother, that you may have a long life in the land which the LORD, your God, is giving you.
13
"You shall not kill.
14
"You shall not commit adultery.
15
"You shall not steal.
16
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17
"You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ***, nor anything else that belongs to him."

Reading on will reveal that there were far more than ten “original” commandments. But what happened to that tablet? Let’s pick up the story four chapters later

The LORD said to Moses, "Come up to me on the mountain and, while you are there, I will give you the stone tablets on which I have written the commandments intended for their instruction."

And Chapter 31

When the LORD had finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the commandments, the stone tablets inscribed by God's own finger.

Chapter 32

Moses then turned and came down the mountain with the two tablets of the commandments in his hands, tablets that were written on both sides, front and back; tablets that were made by God, having inscriptions on them that were engraved by God himself.
Now, when Joshua heard the noise of the people shouting, he said to Moses, "That sounds like a battle in the camp." But Moses answered, "It does not sound like cries of victory, nor does it sound like cries of defeat; the sounds that I hear are cries of revelry."
As he drew near the camp, he saw the calf and the dancing. With that, Moses' wrath flared up, so that he threw the tablets down and broke them on the base of the mountain.

So the tablets that we commonly refer to as the Decalogue were in fact broken, and some of what they were supposed to say was no doubt filled in later by a somewhat less Divine hand.

From Chapter 34

Moses at once bowed down to the ground in worship.

Then he said, "If I find favor with you, O Lord, do come along in our company. This is indeed a stiff-necked people; yet pardon our wickedness and sins, and receive us as your own."

"Here, then," said the LORD, "is the covenant I will make. Before the eyes of all your people I will work such marvels as have never been wrought in any nation anywhere on earth, so that this people among whom you live may see how awe-inspiring are the deeds which I, the LORD, will do at your side.

But you, on your part, must keep the commandments I am giving you today. "I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites.

Take care, therefore, not to make a covenant with these inhabitants of the land that you are to enter; else they will become a snare among you.

Tear down their altars; smash their sacred pillars, and cut down their sacred poles.

You shall not worship any other god, for the LORD is 'the Jealous One'; a jealous God is he.

Do not make a covenant with the inhabitants of that land; else, when they render their wanton worship to their gods and sacrifice to them, one of them may invite you and you may partake of his sacrifice.

Neither shall you take their daughters as wives for your sons; otherwise, when their daughters render their wanton worship to their gods, they will make your sons do the same.

"You shall not make for yourselves molten gods.

"You shall keep the feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days at the prescribed time in the month of Abib you are to eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you; for in the month of Abib you came out of Egypt.

"To me belongs every first-born male that opens the womb among all your livestock, whether in the herd or in the flock.

The firstling of an *** you shall redeem with one of the flock; if you do not redeem it, you must break its neck. The first-born among your sons you shall redeem. "No one shall appear before me empty-handed.

"For six days you may work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; on that day you must rest even during the seasons of plowing and harvesting.

"You shall keep the feast of Weeks with the first of the wheat harvest; likewise, the feast at the fruit harvest at the close of the year.

Three times a year all your men shall appear before the Lord, the LORD God of Israel.

Since I will drive out the nations before you to give you a large territory, there will be no one to covet your land when you go up three times a year to appear before the LORD, your God.

"You shall not offer me the blood of sacrifice with leavened bread, nor shall the sacrifice of the Passover feast be kept overnight for the next day.

"The choicest first fruits of your soil you shall bring to the house of the LORD, your God. "You shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk."

Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with them I have made a covenant with you and with Israel."

So Moses stayed there with the LORD for forty days and forty nights, without eating any food or drinking any water, and he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Don’t think these are what Roy Moore posted, especially the one about not contracting with the Goyim!

 

[WDWHound]

And a lot of us do all the time.


The only thing I get into arguments with my Jewish friends about is when we see people in restaurants, for example, holding hands and prayer before their meal. One of my friends in particular really hates this, but I just can't see why. I mean, it's not something I'm comfortable doing, but I think they certainly have the right to do it and I don't see how it's bothering anyone for them to practice their faith in the way they believe they should.

This is exactly the sort of prayer I am talking about. Quiet, respectful, but possibly as a group an in public if the need arisies. I would add in prayers when news is shared such as prayers of celebration (such as when a friend tells you his wife is expecting a child) or prayers lifting up a need (such as when group leans a friend is in the hospital). The community prays where the community is, and we cant always be in the church.

We are not talking organised prayer here, just a quick connection to God to share our lives as they happen. Anything more than that could be seen as cshowboating and should proably be avoided IMO.