Paris building a barrier around the Eiffel Tower

[MillauFr]

but the perpetual State of Emergency.

Isn't Europe far safer than driving down the typical freeway in the US? 30 - 40 thousand killed every years with far more permanently injured. The death and destruction we tolerate in the US on our roads is completely unacceptable.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Isn't Europe far safer than driving down the typical freeway in the US? 30 - 40 thousand killed every years with far more permanently injured. The death and destruction we tolerate in the US on our roads is completely unacceptable.

It's not really the "safety" issue, but the stress, uncertainty and possible inconvenience. I've had my travel plans disrupted...train service, actives, etc. We decided to scrap the whole itinerary, three days before departure...11/2015.

This year, we started our Christmas vacation in BUDAPEST. It was laid back and relaxed for the first couple of days. The third day (a MONDAY)...significant increase in police presence, especially roads leading into the Christmas Fair. Also, received travel alerts for extra caution. It made me a little uncomfortable, but hyperaware of my surroundings. We agonized over crossing the border, once we reached Prague. Really, really ❤ the Dresden Christmas Markets, but decided against it.

FF..Berlin Market terror attack a few days, after our return. It happened on a MONDAY on BUDAPESTER Straße. Coincidence? Maybe..probably? It was enough to make my hair stand on end.

Berlin was a fleeting consideration for our departure city, but concerns over protests, squashed that thought very quickly. I try to avoid "hotspots" and/or controversy. Although, it doesn't stop us from traveling..not yet anyways. I'm just more particular...and sadly avoid favorite destinations.

 

[L&Lfan]

So, riots in Sweden last night....Reports that Swedish media was downplaying attacks on women and other crimes.

 

[princesspiglet]

I have never been to France but this would irk me to no end if my family had an experience like this.. (anywhere for that matter) I know quite a few people who have gone but none have ever mentioned stuff like this. Where I live tho? You only hear the "good and fabulous" of other's lives. Sorry you guys had to deal with what I consider violating. I'm a 3 feet of space type of person.

Ya know, it was really annoying at the moment, but it really didn't have an impact on our vacation the rest of the time. We brushed it off 5 mins after it happened and continued on. We were very aware of them from that moment on though and learned to not make eye contact and for my daughter to keep her arm linked with my husbands!
My DH actually loved it because most of the time she doesn't want a hug or for us to even touch her (teenager) and my DH got to walk holding her hand or linked arm in arm for the rest of the trip- he was in heaven!

 

[FINFAN]

Ya know, it was really annoying at the moment, but it really didn't have an impact on our vacation the rest of the time. We brushed it off 5 mins after it happened and continued on. We were very aware of them from that moment on though and learned to not make eye contact and for my daughter to keep her arm linked with my husbands!
My DH actually loved it because most of them time she doesn't want a hug or for us to even touch her (teenager) and my DH got to walk holding her hand or linked arm in arm for the rest of the trip- he was in heaven!

Now THAT'S a silver lining!!!!!!!

 

[TLSnell1981]

And

Ya know, it was really annoying at the moment, but it really didn't have an impact on our vacation the rest of the time. We brushed it off 5 mins after it happened and continued on. We were very aware of them from that moment on though and learned to not make eye contact and for my daughter to keep her arm linked with my husbands!
My DH actually loved it because most of the time she doesn't want a hug or for us to even touch her (teenager) and my DH got to walk holding her hand or linked arm in arm for the rest of the trip- he was in heaven!

THAT will be what you remember most about the trip. ❤

 

[sunshinehighway]

Did some research on this video and the creater is being accused of creatively editing footage of officials to make it sound worse than it is. Also the statistics don't match. There has been no rise in crim or rape that is significant enought to blame on any factor. It is with in the "average" for Sweeden. Heck rape actually only went up because they expanded how they report and what is considered rape. I find it best to look at the actual data and not just some video says.

Somehow I think posters who are sharing that video aren't really interested in if it's truthful or not. It's a sad state when people get their information from random videos and have no clue how accurate they actually are and aren't even interested in finding out. Unfortunately that's exactly where we are now.

 

[Caskett616]

Somehow I think posters who are sharing that video aren't really interested in if it's truthful or not. It's a sad state when people get their information from random videos and have no clue how accurate they actually are and aren't even interested in finding out. Unfortunately that's exactly where we are now.

I agree. And it's really sad when you can't convince someone that the story they're spreading isn't true.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Somehow I think posters who are sharing that video aren't really interested in if it's truthful or not. It's a sad state when people get their information from random videos and have no clue how accurate they actually are and aren't even interested in finding out. Unfortunately that's exactly where we are now.

Unfair, and completely uncalled for. I'm not the one who shared the video. That video corroborates what a friend I have living in Sweden -- who is from Sweden, incidentally -- has been telling me for some time now. It is also consistent with multiple reports that media in Sweden has underreported the negative consequences of some government decisions.

Where is your support that what is bolded in your post above is at all accurate??

 

[dish rag]

Somehow I think posters who are sharing that video aren't really interested in if it's truthful or not. It's a sad state when people get their information from random videos and have no clue how accurate they actually are and aren't even interested in finding out. Unfortunately that's exactly where we are now.

I was interested to find out. A very close friend of mine is Swedish, house a house near me in the US and a house in Sweden. He spends most of his time in Sweden now for personal reasons. I talk to him often, several times a week. He would have no interest in joining this forum and posting but would you believe him? If not why?

 

[sunshinehighway]

I was interested to find out. A very close friend of mine is Swedish, house a house near me in the US and a house in Sweden. He spends most of his time in Sweden now for personal reasons. I talk to him often, several times a week. He would have no interest in joining this forum and posting but would you believe him? If not why?

Would I believe some random stranger online over actual data like crime statistics? Would I think one person and their opinions represent the thoughts and feeling of an entire country? Come on.
Think whatever you want about Sweden or Germany or Antarctica, just be honest about where you're getting your information. If you have real facts to back up your opinion, you wouldn't need to share a sketchy video.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Unfair, and completely uncalled for. I'm not the one who shared the video. That video corroborates what a friend I have living in Sweden -- who is from Sweden, incidentally -- has been telling me for some time now. It is also consistent with multiple reports that media in Sweden has underreported the negative consequences of some government decisions.

Where is your support that what is bolded in your post above is at all accurate??

It was neither unfair nor uncalled for.
The support for my saying people sharing the video aren't interested in whether it's true is simple. There is plenty of information that calls the video into question. It's easy to find critisms of that video and why it isn't a good source. Why would someone share such a flawed video and use it to back up their opinion? Why wouldn't they use real information that's not so obviously flawed?

 

[Magpie]

Unfair, and completely uncalled for. I'm not the one who shared the video. That video corroborates what a friend I have living in Sweden -- who is from Sweden, incidentally -- has been telling me for some time now. It is also consistent with multiple reports that media in Sweden has underreported the negative consequences of some government decisions.

Where is your support that what is bolded in your post above is at all accurate??

It's understandable that you trust your friend.

But your friend cannot speak for all of Sweden.

For example, the town I live in has a very low crime rate and I consider it to be overall a delightful place. I've lived here since 1980 and personally I think the city has improved (and there are stats to back me up). But if you ask my friend, who lives just down the street, crime is WAY up. The kids are SO much more disrespectful. The city is dirtier and scarier and just not as nice as it used to be. Plus, a girl got sexually assaulted on the park path just last year.

She doesn't care about stats. She can easily point to newspaper articles and news pieces that confirm her opinion, talking about the spread of drugs and gangs in our downtown core. She knows what's real.

Except there's only one problem... it isn't real. According to the police, our crime rate per capita has actually fallen since the 1970s.

I'm sure Sweden is no different. For every friend you have who thinks it's gone to heck thanks to all the foreigners coming in, there's another person who thinks it hasn't. In the face of that, I'll skip the anecdote and dodgy "documentaries" and go with the stuff that's provable... statistics.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

So, riots in Sweden last night....Reports that Swedish media was downplaying attacks on women and other crimes.

They have every right to. I'm not usually a protester or rioter, in fact never. But government censorship of the truth is one thing I have no tolerance for. That's bush league.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

It was neither unfair nor uncalled for.
The support for my saying people sharing the video aren't interested in whether it's true is simple. There is plenty of information that calls the video into question. It's easy to find critisms of that video and why it isn't a good source. Why would someone share such a flawed video and use it to back up their opinion? Why wouldn't they use real information that's not so obviously flawed?

Why don't you look up some facts, rather than assuming that others haven't? It's not the criminal dystopia that some may represent, but it's not the peaceful ideal that others are trying SO hard to represent. They ARE having issues integrating this new population... jury is still out on how it all shakes out...

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...e-scale-immigration-crime-sweden-five-charts/

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/768980/Sweden-cover-up-migrant-rape-violent-crime

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39047455

http://www.voanews.com/a/sweden-not-the-immigrant-crime-nightmare-as-suggested-by-trump/3734033.html

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

It's understandable that you trust your friend.

But your friend cannot speak for all of Sweden.

For example, the town I live in has a very low crime rate and I consider it to be overall a delightful place. I've lived here since 1980 and personally I think the city has improved (and there are stats to back me up). But if you ask my friend, who lives just down the street, crime is WAY up. The kids are SO much more disrespectful. The city is dirtier and scarier and just not as nice as it used to be. Plus, a girl got sexually assaulted on the park path just last year.

She doesn't care about stats. She can easily point to newspaper articles and news pieces that confirm her opinion, talking about the spread of drugs and gangs in our downtown core. She knows what's real.

Except there's only one problem... it isn't real. According to the police, our crime rate per capita has actually fallen since the 1970s.

I'm sure Sweden is no different. For every friend you have who thinks it's gone to heck thanks to all the foreigners coming in, there's another person who thinks it hasn't. In the face of that, I'll skip the anecdote and dodgy "documentaries" and go with the stuff that's provable... statistics.

See my last post. I am not just taking one friend's word for it. As I say on the DIS when almost any topic comes up: I'm a data person.

 

[wilkeliza]

Why don't you look up some facts, rather than assuming that others haven't? It's not the criminal dystopia that some may represent, but it's not the peaceful ideal that others are trying SO hard to represent.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...e-scale-immigration-crime-sweden-five-charts/

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/768980/Sweden-cover-up-migrant-rape-violent-crime

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39047455

http://www.voanews.com/a/sweden-not-the-immigrant-crime-nightmare-as-suggested-by-trump/3734033.html

While 1 riot happened last night you can't miss this portion of the bbc report

"
Preliminary statistics from the Swedish Crime Survey (in Swedish) show only a marginal increase in 2016 from the year before. Fraud and crimes against individuals were up, but drugs crimes and theft had decreased.

The number of reported rapes increased by 13%, although that is still lower than the number reported in 2014 (6,700), as Sweden's The Local reports."

So yes prelims for 2016 show it is up from 2015 but still down from 2014. Also only marginal increases form 2015 for other crimes. As I said earlier Sweden is interesting when looking at rape since 2005 since they now count every single instance as a report in that year. So a woman could come forward in 2016 and say her husband raped her every week of their 20 year long marriage and Sweden will record 1,040 rapes for the year of 2016 from 1 report. So I really wish they would show something that showed both numbers. So perhaps total # of incidences but also total number of reports made or whatever. So if only 500 reports are made for 1200 incidences you can see if there was a real rise or not form year to year.

 

[pryncess527]

Why don't you look up some facts, rather than assuming that others haven't? It's not the criminal dystopia that some may represent, but it's not the peaceful ideal that others are trying SO hard to represent.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...e-scale-immigration-crime-sweden-five-charts/

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/768980/Sweden-cover-up-migrant-rape-violent-crime

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39047455

http://www.voanews.com/a/sweden-not-the-immigrant-crime-nightmare-as-suggested-by-trump/3734033.html

Did you actually read the links you posted? Just curious -- I've only had time to read one, but it actually does not make the point you are trying to make at all. Quite the opposite.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

Mickey, nobody is disputing that the overall message that things have changed in Sweden. But that video that your friend showed you is extremely biased, and one sided. It was basically shot in one suburb so that it would fit his narrative. I noticed he didn't go to downtown Stockholm at all, why is that? Well the answer is because it would have seemed totally fine.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

While 1 riot happened last night you can't miss this portion of the bbc report

"Preliminary statistics from the Swedish Crime Survey (in Swedish) show only a marginal increase in 2016 from the year before. Fraud and crimes against individuals were up, but drugs crimes and theft had decreased.

The number of reported rapes increased by 13%, although that is still lower than the number reported in 2014 (6,700), as Sweden's The Local reports."

So yes prelims for 2016 show it is up from 2015 but still down from 2014. Also only marginal increases form 2015 for other crimes. As I said earlier Sweden is interesting when looking at rape since 2005 since they now count every single instance as a report in that year. So a woman could come forward in 2016 and say her husband raped her every week of their 20 year long marriage and Sweden will record 1,040 rapes for the year of 2016 from 1 report. So I really wish they would show something that showed both numbers. So perhaps total # of incidences but also total number of reports made or whatever. So if only 500 reports are made for 1200 incidences you can see if there was a real rise or not form year to year.

Did you actually read the links you posted? Just curious -- I've only had time to read one, but it actually does not make the point you are trying to make at all. Quite the opposite.

Goodness.

• Yes, I read all of these all the way through.
• At no point have I said that crime is skyrocketing in Sweden, if you actually read through any of my posts.
• My point is that it is NOT a fully rosy picture, and there are signs that 2016 and beyond will see an uptick in at least some types of crimes given the poor job they appear to be doing in integrating the newcomers to their country.
• A PP's assumption that anyone that would even consider the contents of the posted video must have no interest in facts is CLEARLY 100% WRONG, at least in my case.
• That video DOES show things that my friend has been telling me about -- her stories have prompted me to research the big picture, since I wasn't hearing ANY of this in our US news.

Other questions?