Our 4th FP+ of the day...

[mom2rtk]

And tomorrow is April 30th, a Wednesday. Probably about as light of a day as possible. Going to AK in the morning, then HS later and riding RnRC and ToT on a light crowd day is absolutley, positively, normal.

Again, ONLY the TSMM FP+ is different. How many times is that going to be used as an example? I mean really, is everyone willing to lose 3-4 FPs a day, all so you get a TSMM FP+ without being there at RD?

-J

Sorry, I keep forgetting.

It's really hard to keep up you know.

 

[jade1]

where was the starting point?

When someone cancelled them, or they just were not all reserved ahead of time.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

I have never liked the "fairness" debate because I don't think it's relevant. Fair is whatever Disney says it is. But, using the logic of the folks that have argued that paper FP was the ultimate "fair" system, FP+ is just as fair.

The argument has been that everyone who arrived at the park had an equal shot at FPs, and if someone didn't do their research and arrive at the park early that was their tough luck.

FP+ is just as fair because anyone can choose to book at a Disney resort, buy tickets in advance, and make FP+ reservations 60 days out. If you aren't willing to do those things, you have to accept that your selection of FPs will be reduced. Just like someone who arrived at the park later had less of a shot at FPs.

Both systems set a starting point for "fairness", the starting points are just different.

I would just say UNLESS Disney is holding back FP+. I have no idea if they are or not but the reports of nothing being open for certain ride at 8:30 and then many spots opening right after RD seems to point in that direction. But it is not a fairer system if Disney isn't putting all the FP+s out at the same time.

If you signed on at 60 days out to get your A&E FP+ to find them all gone, you wouldn't be a bit upset to see someone get one at 9:05 the day of? I am not trying to imply this is going to be a huge problem. But what I am saying is I don't like the idea that Disney is trying to control their guest. Put all of what you have out there at 60 days and let the chips fall where they may. And this is from someone that is hitting on 30 days and still haven't booked all of our FP+s.

 

[wisblue]

It always bothered me that if I wanted a FP for something at 6 PM to accommodate plans for dinner or a night show, I had to be at the park and at the attraction at a certain time to get that FP. And, I wouldn't know for sure what time that would be.

So, if I arrived at Epcot at opening and wanted a FP for Soarin at 6 PM, I couldn't get it right then. If I wanted to go out to World Showcase at 11 AM instead of waiting for the FP return time for Soarin to reach 6 PM, I missed out. Meanwhile, the person who strolled into the park at noon might be able to get a FP at the time I wanted.

I never considered that unfair, I just considered it one of the quirks that made the paper FP system less than efficient, and caused us to use it less. But, if "first come first served" is the standard for fairness, I guess that was unfair.

 

[mom2rtk]

"If" they are even doing this, they snoozed and lost at 60 and 30 days-that was virtual rope drop. It's equating to arriving at 7PM and thinking they will get a TSM FP-

"If" they are doing this-"day of" is when they check the app to make the change to what they missed.

"If" it's hit or miss because someone cancelled a FP+ for TSM-then it is first come first serve when those became free.

I agree it's fair when someone just catches one that is cancelled.

I agree they would have snoozed and lost at 30 and 60 days. My only issue is if they are holding back and releasing more FPs at random times day of. Then, no. It's no longer fair. Because someone who snoozed even longer has been inserted in line in front of them.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

I agree it's fair when someone just catches one that is cancelled.

I agree they would have snoozed and lost at 30 and 60 days. My only issue is if they are holding back and releasing more FPs at random times day of. Then, no. It's no longer fair. Because someone who snoozed even longer has been inserted in line in front of them.

 

[OtherScott]

I mean really, is everyone willing to lose 3-4 FPs a day, all so you get a TSMM FP+ without being there at RD?

-J

Everyone is not.

 

[wisblue]

Wouldn't abject fairness be no FP at all? First to the ride = first to ride?

That would be my preference, but we aren't going back to that any more than we are going back to the paper FP system. But, based on our actual experience at both Christmas and Easter this year, if there is going to be a FP system, we prefer the current FP+ system to the old paper system.

If that means that some of the usual detractors think that I am a lazy, ignorant, Kool Aid drinker, I can live with that.

 

[OtherScott]

It always bothered me that if I wanted a FP for something at 6 PM to accommodate plans for dinner or a night show, I had to be at the park and at the attraction at a certain time to get that FP. And, I wouldn't know for sure what time that would be.

Thank you for pointing out this often overlooked feature.

 

[mom2rtk]

When someone cancelled them, or they just were not all reserved ahead of time.

Maybe we're talking about different things.

Having someone cancel them just happens. If someone can catch one, that's great.

If all were not reserved ahead of time, then that happens too. They should just be left for whomever stumbles across them first.

I'm talking about the possibility where Disney purposely holds slots back from prebooking, limiting the choices of those attempting to prebook, for the express purpose of being able to release them at random times the day of.

 

[PEC]

"Fair" is a relative term. I am sure that for whoever gets the Fast Pass when they want it, it is "Fair". For the ones that do not get one it is unfair. Example. If it was strictly first come 1st serve and individuals staying at the resorts got all the tier 1 FPs, then off post and AP at 30 days would say it is not fair. If they held some back and I was at a resort and didn't get one at 60 days, then the on-site would say it is not fair that they held back. The odd case of going with a group (ie a band) that doesn't get tickets until the day of they would say it is not fair. Probably the best definition of who was treated "unfair" is the individual that does not get the FP they want.
My personal opinion is it should be first come first serve but I normally stay on-site now so I am probably a little bias on that front.

 

[wisblue]

Everyone is not.

Exactly. Especially at the busiest times of the year, I'm not going to rush to use up my 3 FP+ reservations first thing in the morning, and sacrifice our afternoon break, just to see what kind of additional FPs I might get later. Taking advantage of rope drop and AM EMH when available, I think we can do as much in the first few hours without FPs as most people can do with them. And, when those first few hours are up, we will still have 3 prime FPs to use later in the day, and those FPs are likely to be for better attractions and at more convenient times than we could get same day.

 

[mom2rtk]

"Fair" is a relative term. I am sure that for whoever gets the Fast Pass when they want it, it is "Fair". For the ones that do not get one it is unfair. Example. If it was strictly first come 1st serve and individuals staying at the resorts got all the tier 1 FPs, then off post and AP at 30 days would say it is not fair. If they held some back and I was at a resort and didn't get one at 60 days, then the on-site would say it is not fair that they held back. The odd case of going with a group (ie a band) that doesn't get tickets until the day of they would say it is not fair. Probably the best definition of who was treated "unfair" is the individual that does not get the FP they want.
My personal opinion is it should be first come first serve but I normally stay on-site now so I am probably a little bias on that front.

We stay onsite and I would be fine with releasing all of them at 60 days for everyone. Because I consider that "fair".

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

It always bothered me that if I wanted a FP for something at 6 PM to accommodate plans for dinner or a night show, I had to be at the park and at the attraction at a certain time to get that FP. And, I wouldn't know for sure what time that would be.

So, if I arrived at Epcot at opening and wanted a FP for Soarin at 6 PM, I couldn't get it right then. If I wanted to go out to World Showcase at 11 AM instead of waiting for the FP return time for Soarin to reach 6 PM, I missed out. Meanwhile, the person who strolled into the park at noon might be able to get a FP at the time I wanted.

I never considered that unfair, I just considered it one of the quirks that made the paper FP system less than efficient, and caused us to use it less. But, if "first come first served" is the standard for fairness, I guess that was unfair.

Unless you went online at 60, 30 and/or 7 days out and found none at the time you wanted because Disney decided to hold all of the 6 PM FP+s to released them at 3:00 PM the day of. Don't you think that if you were online at 60 days out that you deserved to have that spot you wanted?

I am not trying to say that I think this is happening, just that Disney holding any FP+s back to release at any later point really seems to be more unfair than the paper FPs. Everything was released at the beginning of the day, everyone saw the same thing and everyone pulled from the same pool.

 

[JanaDee]

When someone cancelled them, or they just were not all reserved ahead of time.

Do you really believe all the TSMM possible FP+ were not reserved ahead of time? Since TSMM seems to be the poster child for FP+, I don't for one second believe all the slots Disney deemed available at the time weren't reserved.

 

[MrInfinity]

I would just say UNLESS Disney is holding back FP+. I have no idea if they are or not but the reports of nothing being open for certain ride at 8:30 and then many spots opening right after RD seems to point in that direction. But it is not a fairer system if Disney isn't putting all the FP+s out at the same time.

If you signed on at 60 days out to get your A&E FP+ to find them all gone, you wouldn't be a bit upset to see someone get one at 9:05 the day of? I am not trying to imply this is going to be a huge problem. But what I am saying is I don't like the idea that Disney is trying to control their guest. Put all of what you have out there at 60 days and let the chips fall where they may. And this is from someone that is hitting on 30 days and still haven't booked all of our FP+s.

I kind of like this idea of releasing them little by little. It's one thing to publish "there will be X fast passes and they will be available on this date". Then those in the know go grab them and they're gone. But by not having them all out at a specific window, there is always hope of still getting one by luck.

You don't want a situation in which all the valuable / magical stuff has to be meticulously planned in advance. Some spontaneity and surprise goes a long way to making those truly magical moments. Unless you want all the cool stuff to be available only to those who study or research. There is something to be said for Disney making sure there are random awesome things available for those who are just on vacation and not researching or planning.

A combination of some that can be planned and some that can be found by surprise seems to benefit everyone.

 

[linskypens]

Fair or not fair, it is what it is....
You'll take what you get and be happy with it.....
Or you won't be happy with it, and complain about never going back, and then you will.
Be glad you aren't all forced to stand in an hour long line for everything, like we did when I first went in 1975.
We stood in line for SM for an hour without even thinking about it. Its just the way it was.
And now this is just the way it is.
DEAL WITH IT.

 

[mom2rtk]

I kind of like this idea of releasing them little by little. It's one thing to publish "there will be X fast passes and they will be available on this date". Then those in the know go grab them and they're gone. But by not having them all out at a specific window, there is always hope of still getting one by luck.

You don't want a situation in which all the valuable / magical stuff has to be meticulously planned in advance. Some spontaneity and surprise goes a long way to making those truly magical moments. Unless you want all the cool stuff to be available only to those who study or research. There is something to be said for Disney making sure there are random awesome things available for those who are just on vacation and not researching or planning.

A combination of some that can be planned and some that can be found by surprise seems to benefit everyone.

But see.... for that "magic" to happen, something "unmagical" has to happen. Someone else has to miss out. That's the problem with it.

So classy.

 

[OtherScott]

Maybe we're talking about different things.

Having someone cancel them just happens. If someone can catch one, that's great.

If all were not reserved ahead of time, then that happens too. They should just be left for whomever stumbles across them first.

I'm talking about the possibility where Disney purposely holds slots back from prebooking, limiting the choices of those attempting to prebook, for the express purpose of being able to release them at random times the day of.

Here is something I think will be reported as Disney holding back:

I log onto MDE at earliest date and am offered a menu of time slots for the attractions I want. I choose them.

Depending on my level of knowledge, I either go back in and change, opening up an expanded list of times - or - I keep.

Either way, I haven't seen every available slot because providing this to every guest real time is close to impossible. Changes are happening to the inventory on the back end by the minute, with some guests taking and some giving back. No system can be built to keep up, so on the front end I see a general idea of what is available.

Depending on the rate of updating, entering the same parameters an hour from now could look quite a bit different than now.

Then I run into a no-nothing at the park who tripped over primo FPs by accident 5 minutes ago.


This is why I rarely use TicketMaster for events at the 12,000 seat arena 10 minutes away. The arena system has all of the tickets.

 

[Jennasis]

Fair shmare. I've never been interested in fair. I'm only interested in maximizing my own vacation. Me. Just me. And if Disney holding back some fast passes allows me to maximize my vacation at the expense of somebody missing out earlier? I'm okay with that.

Long live the extra 4th 5th and so on fast passes!