Ontario Residents What are Your Summer Plans?

[MoreTravels]

One of the great things about this forum, I find, is that members are open-minded enough to allow others to make personal decisions for themselves and their families without others jumping in to try to yuck their yum. So, I am very glad that you have things to look forward to doing this summer, and that you are able to respect our wishes to go where we like without it affecting your life in the least. I’m sure that you will enjoy going back to Disney when you are comfortable doing so and I respect that choice. I would hope that you would do the same for others.

I am surprised that you are not deterred by the current situation in Florida. They are making new record high every day. We were scared in Ontario when we had 400+ cases per day. They currently have 10,000+ new cases per day in Florida... which is 2500% worse than here. https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/florida-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

While I respect your choice and open-mindedness to take risks, I am not sure if it you understand the risk you are taking. You may also wish to know that most travel insurances do not cover this pandemic travel and you may easily end up with $1 million hospital bill if you are unlucky enough to get sick. It is not like OHIP where everything is covered. There they charge everything down to the bandaid or q-tips they use in giving needles. It is important to have fun... but Disney will still be there next year or even next decade.

I would recommend that you reconsider and stay safe.

 

[pigletto]

I am surprised that you are not deterred by the current situation in Florida. They are making new record high every day. We were scared in Ontario when we had 400+ cases per day. They currently have 10,000+ new cases per day in Florida... which is 2500% worse than here. https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/florida-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

While I respect your choice and open-mindedness to take risks, I am not sure if it you understand the risk you are taking. You may also wish to know that most travel insurances do not cover this pandemic travel and you may easily end up with $1 million hospital bill if you are unlucky enough to get sick. It is not like OHIP where everything is covered. There they charge everything down to the bandaid or q-tips they use in giving needles. It is important to have fun... but Disney will still be there next year or even next decade.

I would recommend that you reconsider and stay safe.

While I appreciate what you’re trying to do here , I think you’re probably wasting your breath .
Anyone using the term “yuck their yum” and accusing people of not being “open minded” about their trip into a Covid epicentre isn’t going to be too “open minded” about considering that they might have a social responsibility to more than themselves . I mean it’s great that it’s not law that you can’t fly .. that’s because the Canadian government can’t make it so without a legal battle .

Becoming a walking viral host through airports and hotels and restaurants and other people’s communities is a choice . And I’ll judge it . We are in the middle of a global pandemic that is cutting short the lives and livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of people . If this isn’t the time to make our opinions known and use sound judgment about the health and well being of the people around us then I don’t know what is .

So yeah , people can go on their Disney vacation, but don’t expect me to nod my head and approve lest I be brandished as not “open minded”.

 

[FigmentSpark]

I don't want to camp or go to a cottage because it just means i get to do all the same crap i do here with less convenience! I don't see that as a holiday.

That's exactly what I say to DH any time he suggests renting a cottage. Sure, it's fun, but there's beds to be made, laundry to do and meals to make, only now I have to boil water and use someone else's stove and equipment. AND I have to be paranoid about staining their floors or rugs or counters, so I'm chasing the kids with towels after being outside. Yep, lots of fun for me.

 

[MamaLema]

I don't want to camp or go to a cottage because it just means i get to do all the same crap i do here with less convenience! I don't see that as a holiday.

Exactly! If I have to bring my own bedding, cook and clean up, I’d rather stay home...and I like oceans, not lakes.

 

[MamaLema]

While I appreciate what you’re trying to do here , I think you’re probably wasting your breath .
Anyone using the term “yuck their yum” and accusing people of not being “open minded” about their trip into a Covid epicentre isn’t going to be too “open minded” about considering that they might have a social responsibility to more than themselves . I mean it’s great that it’s not law that you can’t fly .. that’s because the Canadian government can’t make it so without a legal battle .

Becoming a walking viral host through airports and hotels and restaurants and other people’s communities is a choice . And I’ll judge it . We are in the middle of a global pandemic that is cutting short the lives and livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of people . If this isn’t the time to make our opinions known and use sound judgment about the health and well being of the people around us then I don’t know what is .

So yeah , people can go on their Disney vacation, but don’t expect me to nod my head and approve lest I be brandished as not “open minded”.

I don’t understand people who say they can do whatever because it doesn’t affect anyone else. If that were the case, no one would mind at all..but by going to Florida there is a real risk of getting Covid and bringing it back to Canada. That does affect us. If people don’t get that by now, they never will.

 

[Jrb1979]

Exactly! If I have to bring my own bedding, cook and clean up, I’d rather stay home...and I like oceans, not lakes.

For me it's a chance to get away. I have a trailer 2 hours from me and go up almost every weekend. With not much else to do its something to look forward to. Its not looking like amusement parks in Ontario are going to open. That's what I usually spend all summer doing. Last year I did 9 different parks.

 

[ABCanada]

And I’ll judge it . We are in the middle of a global pandemic that is cutting short the lives and livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of people . If this isn’t the time to make our opinions known and use sound judgment about the health and well being of the people around us then I don’t know what is .

Based on her comments, to me, it sounds like pangyal has a good understanding of the risks and requirements and is committed to following the rules to protect others and reasonable care to protect herself.
Keep in mind, while the daily numbers are clearly a concern, at this point the COVID death rates relative to population are lower in Florida than Ontario and a third of Quebec's.

Looking at the statistics the risks for someone outside the high risk groups, over 80 or comorbidities (75% of AB deaths had three or more comorbidities, 70% were over 80, 97% 60 or older) the risk of death or hospitalization is low. (There have been a few strange deaths and obviously these are the ones that make the news.)
Alberta has a good website that shows the rates and I think gives a good understanding of the risks.
https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htmUnderstanding the risks is enabling more targeted responses. Hopefully the increase in cases will result in more sensible behaviours in the areas experiencing them.

Raising concerns is fair. Rather than "judging" it might be more helpful to understand why pangyal is not as concerned and / or how she is covering those risks. We all have different risk tolerances and as long as we are not harming others, physically or financially, the risks are ours to assume and the individual, assuming they are a responsible adult, is in the best position to make the decision.

 

[wdwmom3]

Based on her comments, to me, it sounds like pangyal has a good understanding of the risks and requirements and is committed to following the rules to protect others and reasonable care to protect herself.
Keep in mind, while the daily numbers are clearly a concern, at this point the COVID death rates relative to population are lower in Florida than Ontario and a third of Quebec's.

Looking at the statistics the risks for someone outside the high risk groups, over 80 or comorbidities (75% of AB deaths had three or more comorbidities, 70% were over 80, 97% 60 or older) the risk of death or hospitalization is low. (There have been a few strange deaths and obviously these are the ones that make the news.)
Alberta has a good website that shows the rates and I think gives a good understanding of the risks.
https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htmUnderstanding the risks is enabling more targeted responses. Hopefully the increase in cases will result in more sensible behaviours in the areas experiencing them.

Raising concerns is fair. Rather than "judging" it might be more helpful to understand why pangyal is not as concerned and / or how she is covering those risks. We all have different risk tolerances and as long as we are not harming others, physically or financially, the risks are ours to assume and the individual, assuming they are a responsible adult, is in the best position to make the decision.

I’m getting sick of people arguing “but the death rate is low”. First off of course the death rate is low right now in Florida, the cases have just started to explode. It hasn’t been long enough to know what the true death rate is because of these insane number of cases. And just because you didn’t die doesn’t mean it isn’t serious. Doctors are now finding that people are sick for weeks sometimes months. And nobody knows what the long term affects are. Scans of lungs or people who have had mild or moderate cases have shown lung damage. This is something that could affect the health of people long term. A coworkers wife was sick for 6 weeks. She could barley walk up the stairs. She’s not reflected in the “death rate”. The person in the ICU for weeks that survives isn’t in the “death rate”. So judging this based on the “death rate” is disturbing. And even more disturbing is people thinking it’s ok for anyone to get really sick or die. Even one is too many.

And yes we will judge because she is going against an official advisory not to travel there because she is bored. No other reason. No family members she needs to visit, no work related reason. She is going to a huge hot spot because she is bored. She may be taking precautions but she is getting on a plane surrounded by people, traveling through airports in a state with a huge amount of cases (and where people don’t seem to care), she will be close to people in the parks, eating inside at restaurants etc etc. And then she will get back on a plane, close to people and come back to Toronto. Then everyone she passes could be put at risk. And then say she gets COVID and ends up in the hospital, Well then it will be health care workers who are then put at risk while they take care of her. Again all because she’s bored. And please stop with the “she’s not harming anyone”. Because if you are doing things that could cause spread you could be harming someone.

 

[Madame]

Based on her comments, to me, it sounds like pangyal has a good understanding of the risks and requirements and is committed to following the rules to protect others and reasonable care to protect herself.
Keep in mind, while the daily numbers are clearly a concern, at this point the COVID death rates relative to population are lower in Florida than Ontario and a third of Quebec's.

Looking at the statistics the risks for someone outside the high risk groups, over 80 or comorbidities (75% of AB deaths had three or more comorbidities, 70% were over 80, 97% 60 or older) the risk of death or hospitalization is low. (There have been a few strange deaths and obviously these are the ones that make the news.)
Alberta has a good website that shows the rates and I think gives a good understanding of the risks.
https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htmUnderstanding the risks is enabling more targeted responses. Hopefully the increase in cases will result in more sensible behaviours in the areas experiencing them.

Raising concerns is fair. Rather than "judging" it might be more helpful to understand why pangyal is not as concerned and / or how she is covering those risks. We all have different risk tolerances and as long as we are not harming others, physically or financially, the risks are ours to assume and the individual, assuming they are a responsible adult, is in the best position to make the decision.

Please stop. There is a reason the EU will not allow US citizens entry. I am still in phase ONE. We are emotionally, mentally, financially exhausted. A local restaurant just made a FB plea to Ford to do something for our local businesses. There is no rationalizing going to the newest epicentre for a non-essential vacation in the middle of a global pandemic. People are going to do it, yes, but the rest of us sure as hell *are* going to judge.

 

[pigletto]

Based on her comments, to me, it sounds like pangyal has a good understanding of the risks and requirements and is committed to following the rules to protect others and reasonable care to protect herself.
Keep in mind, while the daily numbers are clearly a concern, at this point the COVID death rates relative to population are lower in Florida than Ontario and a third of Quebec's.

Looking at the statistics the risks for someone outside the high risk groups, over 80 or comorbidities (75% of AB deaths had three or more comorbidities, 70% were over 80, 97% 60 or older) the risk of death or hospitalization is low. (There have been a few strange deaths and obviously these are the ones that make the news.)
Alberta has a good website that shows the rates and I think gives a good understanding of the risks.
https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htmUnderstanding the risks is enabling more targeted responses. Hopefully the increase in cases will result in more sensible behaviours in the areas experiencing them.

Raising concerns is fair. Rather than "judging" it might be more helpful to understand why pangyal is not as concerned and / or how she is covering those risks. We all have different risk tolerances and as long as we are not harming others, physically or financially, the risks are ours to assume and the individual, assuming they are a responsible adult, is in the best position to make the decision.

Thank you for the thoughtful response . I think unfortunately you completely missed my point. We have the right to assume risks for ourselves .. I do not argue that in the least . But it’s my opinion that it’s needlessly selfish to assume those risks for other people for a vacation . Our country is making massive sacrifices to contain and limit the carnage of this illness . My own mother delayed her retirement to continue to serve the community in health care and testing , putting herself at considerable risk being over 65. She does this for our health and safety as a whole . My brother is providing PTSD treatment to healthcare workers who have been dealing with considerable fear and concern for themselves , their patients and their families. My sister and brother in law live in Florida . He’s a surgeon . His hospital is overrun with Covid patients . My sister is a social worker and afraid for the kids in her care so even though she is 8 months pregnant she’s conducting visits on families front lawns . She’s TERRIFIED she or her husband will catch it before she gives birth because if they both do they will not be given physical access to their own infant until they are no longer positive . Up to two weeks they can’t hold their own baby .
I see all these good people making massive sacrifices of their own health and safety and think a vacation to a known hot spot is frivolous and selfish .
It sounds nice to say it all about an individuals risk tolerance . Just be sure you know what you are risking . It’s not just you and your family . It’s healthcare workers , it’s their families , it’s the people at your destinations and on the planes you take to get there , it’s the travellers in the airports and their families , it’s all the workers at Disney , it’s all their elderly relatives and so on . We aren’t just making these choices in a bubble .. it has a big reach .
Do I feel we can safely go out in our own communities with low numbers and support our businesses ? I sure do .But you are talking about a state reporting 10,000 cases a day!! So people can make that choice but please can we all stop saying it’s just about the individual ?

 

[Disneylover99]

We will tent in our backyard for a night or two. That might be fun. Lol.

We will also continue to go to the Toronto Zoo a couple of times a week as long as it doesn’t get crowded. We've been twice and so far, it’s been easy to social distance there.

 

[Jrb1979]

We will tent in our backyard for a night or two. That might be fun. Lol.

We will also continue to go to the Toronto Zoo a couple of times a week as long as it doesn’t get crowded. We've been twice and so far, it’s been easy to social distance there.

Wonderland should open next month so that is another thing you can do.

 

[pangyal]

I have been internally debating whether to reply to the opinions surrounding my post about heading down to Disney. Looking back at my post, I can see how it could certainly come off as seeming spoiled, reckless and shallow. That was certainly not my intention. With us being on a Disney forum and my participating in many threads that are along the same vein of being excited to get back to Disney every day, I assumed that people would share that on this thread as well, and I misjudged. The reason I’m replying is because multiple people have posted their stories of stress and worry surrounding this entire situation, and while we are all strangers on the Internet, I would prefer not to be a source of any further stress for anyone. I don’t feel that we as a family have been irresponsible in the least- I’ve been wearing a mask since day one (even with people giving me weird looks) and have not gone out for months until mid-June other to do solitary trail runs. We are going to Disney primarily because we would otherwise be out thousands of dollars in DVC points that are expiring and flight credits that we cannot use. I am fully aware of how the virus transmits and understand how to mitigate that possibility in both directions. We have had some big blows this year as a family and my son very much needs something positive to happen in his life at this point. We have a huge amount of insurance and yes, it covers anything Covid-related. Once we come home, we head straight into quarantine for 14 days and yes, we have done it before, in March, and yes, we know how strict we need to be. We have had a meeting with our family physician, who has flat-out told us that Disney is going to be the safest place we can be and that she herself would be going right now if they were selling the resorts and tickets. I have pored over multiple trip reports from physicians and RNs who have gone down to Universal already or are planning to vacation at Disney and look at how they feel about Disney’s safety protocols, and I feel that we are not putting ourselves at risk any more than we would going to the grocery store (we usually order groceries, but I went to Loblaws the other day and it was certainly not as safe as Disney is planning to be). With masks and severe social distancing, we are comfortable with the plans that Disney has implemented and do not feel that they are risking the health of guests or CMs based on these policies. I don’t need to debate the virus or how it spreads with anybody, but I would like to acknowledge that I know that tensions are high all around right now and I certainly did not want to add to that by seeming cavalier about the whole thing. We have given it a lot of thought and have figured out a plan that keeps us more distanced for that time than we would be here in the middle of a big city.

 

[SleeplessInTO]

I have been internally debating whether to reply to the opinions surrounding my post about heading down to Disney. Looking back at my post, I can see how it could certainly come off as seeming spoiled, reckless and shallow. That was certainly not my intention. With us being on a Disney forum and my participating in many threads that are along the same vein of being excited to get back to Disney every day, I assumed that people would share that on this thread as well, and I misjudged. The reason I’m replying is because multiple people have posted their stories of stress and worry surrounding this entire situation, and while we are all strangers on the Internet, I would prefer not to be a source of any further stress for anyone. I don’t feel that we as a family have been irresponsible in the least- I’ve been wearing a mask since day one (even with people giving me weird looks) and have not gone out for months until mid-June other to do solitary trail runs. We are going to Disney primarily because we would otherwise be out thousands of dollars in DVC points that are expiring and flight credits that we cannot use. I am fully aware of how the virus transmits and understand how to mitigate that possibility in both directions. We have had some big blows this year as a family and my son very much needs something positive to happen in his life at this point. We have a huge amount of insurance and yes, it covers anything Covid-related. Once we come home, we head straight into quarantine for 14 days and yes, we have done it before, in March, and yes, we know how strict we need to be. We have had a meeting with our family physician, who has flat-out told us that Disney is going to be the safest place we can be and that she herself would be going right now if they were selling the resorts and tickets. I have pored over multiple trip reports from physicians and RNs who have gone down to Universal already or are planning to vacation at Disney and look at how they feel about Disney’s safety protocols, and I feel that we are not putting ourselves at risk any more than we would going to the grocery store (we usually order groceries, but I went to Loblaws the other day and it was certainly not as safe as Disney is planning to be). With masks and severe social distancing, we are comfortable with the plans that Disney has implemented and do not feel that they are risking the health of guests or CMs based on these policies. I don’t need to debate the virus or how it spreads with anybody, but I would like to acknowledge that I know that tensions are high all around right now and I certainly did not want to add to that by seeming cavalier about the whole thing. We have given it a lot of thought and have figured out a plan that keeps us more distanced for that time than we would be here in the middle of a big city.

I, for one, hope you have a wonderful trip.

 

[pigletto]

I have been internally debating whether to reply to the opinions surrounding my post about heading down to Disney. Looking back at my post, I can see how it could certainly come off as seeming spoiled, reckless and shallow. That was certainly not my intention. With us being on a Disney forum and my participating in many threads that are along the same vein of being excited to get back to Disney every day, I assumed that people would share that on this thread as well, and I misjudged. The reason I’m replying is because multiple people have posted their stories of stress and worry surrounding this entire situation, and while we are all strangers on the Internet, I would prefer not to be a source of any further stress for anyone. I don’t feel that we as a family have been irresponsible in the least- I’ve been wearing a mask since day one (even with people giving me weird looks) and have not gone out for months until mid-June other to do solitary trail runs. We are going to Disney primarily because we would otherwise be out thousands of dollars in DVC points that are expiring and flight credits that we cannot use. I am fully aware of how the virus transmits and understand how to mitigate that possibility in both directions. We have had some big blows this year as a family and my son very much needs something positive to happen in his life at this point. We have a huge amount of insurance and yes, it covers anything Covid-related. Once we come home, we head straight into quarantine for 14 days and yes, we have done it before, in March, and yes, we know how strict we need to be. We have had a meeting with our family physician, who has flat-out told us that Disney is going to be the safest place we can be and that she herself would be going right now if they were selling the resorts and tickets. I have pored over multiple trip reports from physicians and RNs who have gone down to Universal already or are planning to vacation at Disney and look at how they feel about Disney’s safety protocols, and I feel that we are not putting ourselves at risk any more than we would going to the grocery store (we usually order groceries, but I went to Loblaws the other day and it was certainly not as safe as Disney is planning to be). With masks and severe social distancing, we are comfortable with the plans that Disney has implemented and do not feel that they are risking the health of guests or CMs based on these policies. I don’t need to debate the virus or how it spreads with anybody, but I would like to acknowledge that I know that tensions are high all around right now and I certainly did not want to add to that by seeming cavalier about the whole thing. We have given it a lot of thought and have figured out a plan that keeps us more distanced for that time than we would be here in the middle of a big city.

While I wish you no ill will personally, you can’t possibly think what you are doing is akin to going to the grocery store . I stand by what I wrote and just as you likely think I’m being overly harsh and fear mongering , I think your operating under a confirmation bias that finds support for what you want to hear . 10,000 cases a day . It’s not like I’m pulling these stats out of thin air . But likely you and your family will be just fine and that seems to be your concern .
And with that I need to respectfully bow out of this thread. I’ve said what I needed to say.

 

[Disneylover99]

Wonderland should open next month so that is another thing you can do.

I’m not into the rides, but I will most likely check it out once it opens.
I’m always looking for a new place to walk around.

 

[ABCanada]

I’m getting sick of people arguing “but the death rate is low”. ...Even one is too many.

The stats I provided include hospitalization and ICU. In AB even those are low. Certainly other areas they may be higher if the comorbidities are high. Some of the historic results will also show a much higher percentages as the testing rate was very low. Reported rates are still likely overstated as I believe very few areas test asymptomatic other than healthcare workers.
Yes there have been some serious cases but as we are seeing now that there is more testing the rate is low.
Yes we need to take care and follow reasonable precautions.

People die all the time from all sorts of causes, including some of the actions taken to 'control' COVID. While any death is sad, we can never prevent all deaths. I could argue that actions taken to 'prevent' deaths from one source will contribute to a death from another factor. It is interesting that it is generally those in the higher risk group, 60 and above, that believe that more risk should be assumed and the COVID restrictions reduced. If you look at the statistics you will see that in the over 80 age group there were many more deaths than hospitalizations and very few ICU. I suspect this is because of their Personal Directives which focus on comfort rather than extreme measures. Following you "I'm getting sick of ..." I could say the same for the "Even one is too many" this is unrealistic.

Please stop. There is a reason the EU will not allow US citizens entry. I am still in phase ONE. We are emotionally, mentally, financially exhausted. A local restaurant just made a FB plea to Ford to do something for our local businesses. There is no rationalizing going to the newest epicentre for a non-essential vacation in the middle of a global pandemic. People are going to do it, yes, but the rest of us sure as hell *are* going to judge.

I will stop. I am tired of all the comments that I find overly negative and critical . Unfortunately this seems to be one of the COVID side effects. Everyone is stressed and there are many desperate situations. I sincerely hope your and your community's situation improves.

We need to find a balance and reasonable guidelines. The actions taken have been hard on many and will likely have long-term impacts. For success going forward we need to treat citizens as adults, take calculated risks, and learn from our mistakes. Judging is dangerous as we very rarely have all the facts or may misinterpret something. As I said in my original post I find it better to be curious than judgemental.

We need to treat one another with respect.
We can listen to different opinions and respectfully disagree with some or all of the points. But we first should try to understand where they are coming from.
Requesting that people stop bringing up facts or differing interpretation of the facts leads to failure.

 

[vegs1]

I have been internally debating whether to reply to the opinions surrounding my post about heading down to Disney. Looking back at my post, I can see how it could certainly come off as seeming spoiled, reckless and shallow. That was certainly not my intention. With us being on a Disney forum and my participating in many threads that are along the same vein of being excited to get back to Disney every day, I assumed that people would share that on this thread as well, and I misjudged. The reason I’m replying is because multiple people have posted their stories of stress and worry surrounding this entire situation, and while we are all strangers on the Internet, I would prefer not to be a source of any further stress for anyone. I don’t feel that we as a family have been irresponsible in the least- I’ve been wearing a mask since day one (even with people giving me weird looks) and have not gone out for months until mid-June other to do solitary trail runs. We are going to Disney primarily because we would otherwise be out thousands of dollars in DVC points that are expiring and flight credits that we cannot use. I am fully aware of how the virus transmits and understand how to mitigate that possibility in both directions. We have had some big blows this year as a family and my son very much needs something positive to happen in his life at this point. We have a huge amount of insurance and yes, it covers anything Covid-related. Once we come home, we head straight into quarantine for 14 days and yes, we have done it before, in March, and yes, we know how strict we need to be. We have had a meeting with our family physician, who has flat-out told us that Disney is going to be the safest place we can be and that she herself would be going right now if they were selling the resorts and tickets. I have pored over multiple trip reports from physicians and RNs who have gone down to Universal already or are planning to vacation at Disney and look at how they feel about Disney’s safety protocols, and I feel that we are not putting ourselves at risk any more than we would going to the grocery store (we usually order groceries, but I went to Loblaws the other day and it was certainly not as safe as Disney is planning to be). With masks and severe social distancing, we are comfortable with the plans that Disney has implemented and do not feel that they are risking the health of guests or CMs based on these policies. I don’t need to debate the virus or how it spreads with anybody, but I would like to acknowledge that I know that tensions are high all around right now and I certainly did not want to add to that by seeming cavalier about the whole thing. We have given it a lot of thought and have figured out a plan that keeps us more distanced for that time than we would be here in the middle of a big city.



The Canadian government has a travel advisory against ALL non-essential travel. Just because flights can go, the advisory is still there.
The border is closed. Flights can also be closed down at any moment and if Florida’s cases keep piling up, they very well may do that to keep infections from coming into Canada. You could find yourself stranded.

I do hope that you travel safely, have a good time, don’t infect anyone, including yourself on the flight home, and come back with only positive memories.....not positive test results.

I do wish that you would heed the advisories put out. Our health care workers, the doctors and nurses who work tirelessly trying to save lives, need all of us to think of them and how they risk their lives daily. Disney just isn’t a necessity at this point and it will always be there.

 

[Madame]

The stats I provided include hospitalization and ICU. In AB even those are low. Certainly other areas they may be higher if the comorbidities are high. Some of the historic results will also show a much higher percentages as the testing rate was very low. Reported rates are still likely overstated as I believe very few areas test asymptomatic other than healthcare workers.
Yes there have been some serious cases but as we are seeing now that there is more testing the rate is low.
Yes we need to take care and follow reasonable precautions.

People die all the time from all sorts of causes, including some of the actions taken to 'control' COVID. While any death is sad, we can never prevent all deaths. I could argue that actions taken to 'prevent' deaths from one source will contribute to a death from another factor. It is interesting that it is generally those in the higher risk group, 60 and above, that believe that more risk should be assumed and the COVID restrictions reduced. If you look at the statistics you will see that in the over 80 age group there were many more deaths than hospitalizations and very few ICU. I suspect this is because of their Personal Directives which focus on comfort rather than extreme measures. Following you "I'm getting sick of ..." I could say the same for the "Even one is too many" this is unrealistic.



I will stop. I am tired of all the comments that I find overly negative and critical . Unfortunately this seems to be one of the COVID side effects. Everyone is stressed and there are many desperate situations. I sincerely hope your and your community's situation improves.

We need to find a balance and reasonable guidelines. The actions taken have been hard on many and will likely have long-term impacts. For success going forward we need to treat citizens as adults, take calculated risks, and learn from our mistakes. Judging is dangerous as we very rarely have all the facts or may misinterpret something. As I said in my original post I find it better to be curious than judgemental.

We need to treat one another with respect.
We can listen to different opinions and respectfully disagree with some or all of the points. But we first should try to understand where they are coming from.
Requesting that people stop bringing up facts or differing interpretation of the facts leads to failure.

I would agree with you if it were essential travel to see a sick relative, maybe even work-related if it were essential. This is a holiday. I cancelled 2 this year including one for this Aug.

Going to Florida now would be no different than residents of my town going out and about. Why am I bothering with phase 1? Why are we suffering while others can jet off to an area with a HIGHER infection rate than exists in my town currently & potentially bring it back and cost lives and wasted tax dollars in terms of health services?

This is the standard set by my province and hers. This trip is no different than Ontarians flouting phase one or worse restrictions. I too am bowing out of this conversation. Just not worth the aggro.

 

[ottawamom]

As Canadian citizens and residents of this country we will be paying for all that our country has done to flatten the curve for decades.

I'm glad selfish self centered individuals feel it is OK to put a little more burden on all of us. All we have been asked to do is stay in our country/province and wear a mask. Is that really so difficult?

I have cancelled trips twice this year (April and November). I am also out of pocket a large sum of money as a result. I would like nothing more than to go back to Disney but we have been asked to flatten the curve in this country. So I stay home.

To paraphrase a quote. "Our parents/grandparents were asked to go to war. All we are being asked to do is stay home"