Ok I Understand the Excessive Wear and Tear

[cseca]

I wouldn't even be able to take my wife with me anymore because she makes any room look better.

I hope you tell her that

 

[Starr W.]

Would a package of those plastic outlet covers really take up more space than a roll of duct tape? I don't get what all she was planning to tape. DS and I were talking about it this morning. The sliding glass doors at AKL have a lock AND a little hook latch on them. And the hook latch is up high on the door. Was she planning to leave her toddlers unattended long enough for them to sort out how to reach the locks AND unlock them? And if her prodigies are that advanced then what makes her think a flimsy piece of TAPE is going to make a difference?

She was going to duct tape: sliding door, entrance door, electric outlets and perhaps cabinet doors.

I'll do some research and see if I can find the post and you can , because that's what I thought. Much easier to bring the "baby proof" stuff from home then a nasty roll of duct tape.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

She was going to duct tape: sliding door, entrance door, electric outlets and perhaps cabinet doors.

I'll do some research and see if I can find the post and you can , because that's what I thought. Much easier to bring the "baby proof" stuff from home then a nasty roll of duct tape.

OK. Now I might be just a little shocked.

 

[Lost in Neverland]

IMHO I think it just comes back to the fact there are individuals that feel that they are owed something regardless of the impact it has on the group as a whole. I agree that the high number of children has an impact on the wear and tear.But the individuals that feel owed in turn teach their children there are no reprecussions for the things they do or responsibility for things they damage. We have taught our children that even though we call this place our home we are in reality a temporary guest. In knowing that we as a family have a responsibility to leave a place in the same or better condition overall than when we arrived .Our children do not jump on the beds, run around the villa causing noise issues or in any other way destroy the villa. I think it just comes back to as adults even though a high ratio of guests in the DVC properties are children we are responsible to teach our children to take care of things that they do not own and respect others staying nearby.In the end yes the children have an impact but it all goes back to the parents who do not assume responsibility for their children or their actions.

 

[BeesKnees]

IMHO I think it just comes back to the fact there are individuals that feel that they are owed something regardless of the impact it has on the group as a whole. I agree that the high number of children has an impact on the wear and tear.But the individuals that feel owed in turn teach their children there are no reprecussions for the things they do or responsibility for things they damage. We have taught our children that even though we call this place our home we are in reality a temporary guest. In knowing that we as a family have a responsibility to leave a place in the same or better condition overall than when we arrived .Our children do not jump on the beds, run around the villa causing noise issues or in any other way destroy the villa. I think it just comes back to as adults even though a high ratio of guests in the DVC properties are children we are responsible to teach our children to take care of things that they do not own and respect others staying nearby.In the end yes the children have an impact but it all goes back to the parents who do not assume responsibility for their children or their actions.

1000 percent agree. If you think you are owed more than lodging for x number of years for the money you spent you probably spent more than you should have.

You hit the nail on the head. We are owners but we are only partial owners. A tiny fraction owner at that. Other than the place needing normal cleaning no one should be able to tell you were there. Rearrange the furniture, put up a Christmas tree just don't leave a footprint. If you do accidentally damage something and you can't or shouldn't fix it bring it to someone's attention.

Also, thank you for keeping your children in line. They will be better for it when they get older.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

In general, parents are less strict than they were several generations back. There is a trend of parents who want to be friends with their children, never discipline them, never give them any parameters or rules. These are the parents who allow their children to run through the halls SCREAMING, the ones who allow their children to eat, drink, and spill stuff all over the place, the ones who allow children to jump on beds and couches. These are also the parents who think the rest of us should be thoroughly entertained by these antics and never oppose or disapprove of their little prodigies. Makes me sick.

Boy, we were parents that hovered, watched, corrected at the moment's notice. Never let our kids get out of hand, scream, yell, run in the halls, always made sure homework was done, tests prepared for, projects completed. We always had advice and criticism for those lax parents... how to best raise children....

We have learned that we made WAY too many decisions for our children and made sure WAY too many times they didn't do the wrong thing or fail at anything. Turns out... we still have to. Dependency is built. We built it. Just my unfortunate experience.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but when all is said and done... I can't say who is a good or bad parent. I don't judge anyone anymore.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

I'm not sure the wear and tear is more at DVC compared to other timeshares (my comparison's above were to Disney hotels). Mot timeshares have rotating cycles of around 5/10 years through 7/14 years. The first is a soft goods refurbishment with carpet, upholstered furniture, walls, sheers, mattresses etc. The latter is a hard refurbishment which adds cabinets, counters, tables/chairs, sleepers, drapes, etc. Some of the items could float between the 2 depending on how they've held up (mattresses, couches, chairs, etc). Marriott has a 5/10 cycle that is planned for and the capital reserves are dedicated for. There might be a small special assessment for major unexpected issues or significant upgrades. I was at Marco Island earlier this year and dropped by Eagles Nest, which is a HGVG affiliated resort. Apparently they do a top to bottom redo every 4 years but the difference there is apparently they have smaller dues ongoing then charge the entire redo to the members when it happens.

IMO, DVC has fallen down in this area mostly because they haven't had a master plan but have tried to do pieces here and there then do the entire things when they saw they had to.

Hey Dean (good friend, for those who don't know), I was not referring to your comparisons. And I agree that Disney has fallen down in this area, but IMHO there is NO comparison to the wear and tear Disney properties experience from the overwhelming Disney family visits. There is no other TS (or hotel chain) that has SO many children on site. It is total excitement, the adrenaline just pours out, running, jumping, bumping, dirt, spills, and so on. Disney needs to step up to the plate and get it done, but the task is beyond what any other TS or hotel chain has to deal with. And stepping up to the plate must mean higher maintenance fees for DVC. JMHO. Just an unfortunate truth.

 

[Dean]

Hey Dean (good friend for those who don't know), I was not referring to your comparisons. And I agree that Disney has fallen down in this area, but IMHO there is NO comparison to the wear and tear Disney properties experience from the overwhelming Disney family visits. There is no other TS (or hotel chain) that has SO many children on site. It is total excitement, the adrenaline just pours out, running jumping, bumping, dirt, spills, and so on. Disney needs to step up to the plate and get it done, but the task is beyond what any other TS or hotel chain has to deal with. And stepping up to the plate must mean higher maintenance fees for DVC. JMHO. Just an unfortunate truth.

I see your point but I'm not sure I agree with the assumptions. I'm not sure that the number/ages of kids at DVC is much or any different than other timeshares I'm familiar with that are family oriented and had in mind when I wrote this (HH and other beach Marriott's esp). I am convinced that the in room time for DVC guests is less than many timeshares that are somewhat comparable and that's likely true even for other Orlando options. I doubt any of us have hard numbers and to be honest, I'm not sure there are industry studies/standards that address these issues. I understand there are industry reports that address the issue of when/how to do refurbishments but DVC tends to march to a different drummer and in this area, I think that they are marching off in left field from what I can see. Ultimately it really doesn't matter why other than for 3 issues, whether they can prevent it, recoup damages and determine maint schedules for which they seem to be trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

I see your point but I'm not sure I agree with the assumptions. I'm not sure that the number/ages of kids at DVC is much or any different than other timeshares I'm familiar with that are family oriented and had in mind when I wrote this (HH and other beach Marriott's esp). I am convinced that the in room time for DVC guests is less than many timeshares that are somewhat comparable and that's likely true even for other Orlando options. I doubt any of us have hard numbers and to be honest, I'm not sure there are industry studies/standards that address these issues. I understand there are industry reports that address the issue of when/how to do refurbishments but DVC tends to march to a different drummer and in this area, I think that they are marching off in left field from what I can see. Ultimately it really doesn't matter why other than for 3 issues, whether they can prevent it, recoup damages and determine maint schedules for which they seem to be trying to reinvent the wheel.

Wow, that was a quick reply. I don't think they can prevent it. There is NOTHING like going to Disney. Kids are over the edge and the parents are too. Not all, but certainly the newcomers and first returners.

I certainly have no numbers.... just years of observation. There is NO question in my mind that Disney has a uniquely hard customer to clean up after and maintain the rooms they stay in.

You may be right that they are marching off into left field, but I don't think it is a matter of money being spent in the wrong place. Just not enough money being spent period. I see many areas where I wish they would spend money, but others don't agree. I think they are spending all the money they have and it is not enough to solve the problem.

Must hit the sack now. Good night all.

 

[Dean]

Wow, that was a quick reply. I don't think they can prevent it. There is NOTHING like going to Disney. Kids are over the edge and the parents are too. Not all, but certainly the newcomers and first returners.

I certainly have no numbers.... just years of observation. There is NO question in my mind that Disney has a uniquely hard customer to clean up after and maintain the rooms they stay in.

You may be right that they are marching off into left field, but I don't think it is a matter of money being spent in the wrong place. Just not enough money being spent period. I see many areas where I wish they would spend money, but others don't agree. I think they are spending all the money they have and it is not enough to solve the problem.

Must hit the sack now. Good night all.

I personally think the only real difference is that DVC members feel more entitled than most and act accordingly.

 

[StitchBuddy]

Okay, this thread is cracking me up!! I thought I was the only one who want to tape a child's mouth shut. I like to think I am a pretty patient person, but kids behave worse when their parents are around. Their are some parents that behave pretty bad too! As far as wear and tear on the villas I agree that most people probably don't clean up their messes or it could be that they don't have the supplies to do so. Either way Disney should take care of the villas. We stayed in a studio at OKW and were very disappointed at the way it looked. Now, I see they are up-dating OKW. They should have probably done it couple of years sooner.

 

[disney54us]

I don't see how plugging in a 3-4 ft. pre-lite Christmas tree would add to wear and tear. Then I guess those who bring there laptop and plug it in are doing the same. If you stay in the resorts you can order from Disney Florist a Christmas tree and or decorations for your room. Window clings harm the windows? I do put Christmas lights on my balcony, I wrap them around the railing. No tape, nails etc.
It could be that in the DVC resorts a 2 bdrm sleeps 8-9, where as most resort rooms hold 4-5. More people p/room, more wear and tear.
Those who are going to take care of where they are staying will do so in a resort room or a DVC room.
Sadly some people are just slobs.

 

[cseca]

I don't see how plugging in a 3-4 ft. pre-lite Christmas tree would add to wear and tear. Then I guess those who bring there laptop and plug it in are doing the same. If you stay in the resorts you can order from Disney Florist a Christmas tree and or decorations for your room. Window clings harm the windows? I do put Christmas lights on my balcony, I wrap them around the railing. No tape, nails etc. ...

I agree with what you said regarding the tree, but putting lights on the balcony according to the POS would be against the rule. Not saying that Disney is enforcing it but if they decide to do it, they are within rights to do so.


Per tjkraz's post

9. Exterior Appearance. No Owner shall decorate or alter any part of a Unit or a Vacation Home so as to affect the appearance of a Unit or a Vacation Home from the exterior. Such decoration or alteration shall include painting or illumination of the exterior of a Unit or a Vacation Home, display of plants or other objects upon balconies or railings or exterior window sills or ledges, reflective film or other window treatments, draperies, window shades, screen doors and lights. The Association shall have the sole discretion, which may be based on aesthetic principles only, to determine compliance with this provision.

Again, I have no strong opinion on whether people could put up stuff anywhere in the unit. I personally think as long as you don't damage anything it doesn't matter. But I never realized that the POS is more in depth than I thought.

 

[BeesKnees]

Boy, we were parents that hovered, watched, corrected at the moment's notice. Never let our kids get out of hand, scream, yell, run in the halls, always made sure homework was done, tests prepared for, projects completed. We always had advice and criticism for those lax parents... how to best raise children....

We have learned that we made WAY too many decisions for our children and made sure WAY too many times they didn't do the wrong thing or fail at anything. Turns out... we still have to. Dependency is built. We built it. Just my unfortunate experience.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but when all is said and done... I can't say who is a good or bad parent. I don't judge anyone anymore.

I see your point too. Being strict though is not the enemy. That is the way it has always been done until recently.

I think many parents have lost their natural instincts. As soon as I hit puberty a switch went off in my parents (especially my father) to switch from protective mode to preparing mode just like it happens in the wild. I went through the normal tug-of-war between being a child and becoming a man but they pushed me on. They gave me ever increasing amounts of responsibilities and freedom. By driving age there was none of this call when you get there and call when you leave to come home business, my being away from home with scheduled return times was so commonplace it wasn't necessary. I was only to call if I was going to be late.

By 18 I was not only a legal adult but an adult ready to stand on my own two feet without the need of my parents.

Of course, when I was growing up there had been a relatively recent draft so the scariest thing was not that something bad would happen to me, the scariest thing was if I turned 18 and was shipped off to fight the commies unprepared to take care of myself.

 

[tjkraz]

I don't see how plugging in a 3-4 ft. pre-lite Christmas tree would add to wear and tear.

First, I agree that it's questionable whether the sections I quoted from the POS would prohibit Christmas trees. There is some language about altering furnishings and decorations. But in the end, Disney is not solely bound by the POS when it comes to managing the properties. If they want to say "no Christmas Trees", that is certainly within their rights.

(As a sidebar, honestly I'm surprised that there isn't a clause specifically prohibiting Christmas trees, or at least LIVE Christmas trees. Those pose a fire hazard. Most rental properties expressly prohibit live trees. The absence of any similar clause here may indicate that Disney didn't even expect trees to be an issue.)

All of that said, Disney has obviously chosen not to do much to enforce any of the sections I quoted so it's a moot point.

As for the damage issue, there's more to it than just plugging in a Christmas tree. The tree needs to be transported and assembled in the room and honestly anything can happen during that process. Even the most conscientious individuals can accidentally snag a seam in the wallpaper while attaching branches to the tree or knock a picture off the walls. They can have a short in their lights and blow-out an electrical outlet.

Bottom line is there is more POTENTIAL for damage when a group brings in 6 suitcases and a Christmas Tree than if that same group simply has the 6 suitcases. Whether that added damage amounts to $10 per year or $10,000 per year is unknown to us.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

Boy, we were parents that hovered, watched, corrected at the moment's notice. Never let our kids get out of hand, scream, yell, run in the halls, always made sure homework was done, tests prepared for, projects completed. We always had advice and criticism for those lax parents... how to best raise children....

We have learned that we made WAY too many decisions for our children and made sure WAY too many times they didn't do the wrong thing or fail at anything. Turns out... we still have to. Dependency is built. We built it. Just my unfortunate experience.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but when all is said and done... I can't say who is a good or bad parent. I don't judge anyone anymore.

It's a balancing act. But never instructing children how to behave appropriately is definitely NOT a better way to go. Teaching children to be respectful and courteous isn't likely to come back and bite me. I am guilty of helicopter parenting, but that is a separate thing.

Allowing a child to fail is different than not bothering to teach him how to be successful. You have to provide the tools and show the child how to use them, then leave it up to him to do the job. Parents who allow their children to behave like savages without ever pointing out the finer points of civility are not doing their children (or any of us who will encounter those children) any favors. There is nothing wrong with teaching children to walk and speak quietly in the halls, or teaching them to be respectful of furnishings both at home and away from home.

 

[BeesKnees]

First, I agree that it's questionable whether the sections I quoted from the POS would prohibit Christmas trees. There is some language about altering furnishings and decorations. But in the end, Disney is not solely bound by the POS when it comes to managing the properties. If they want to say "no Christmas Trees", that is certainly within their rights.

(As a sidebar, honestly I'm surprised that there isn't a clause specifically prohibiting Christmas trees, or at least LIVE Christmas trees. Those pose a fire hazard. Most rental properties expressly prohibit live trees. The absence of any similar clause here may indicate that Disney didn't even expect trees to be an issue.)

All of that said, Disney has obviously chosen not to do much to enforce any of the sections I quoted so it's a moot point.

As for the damage issue, there's more to it than just plugging in a Christmas tree. The tree needs to be transported and assembled in the room and honestly anything can happen during that process. Even the most conscientious individuals can accidentally snag a seam in the wallpaper while attaching branches to the tree or knock a picture off the walls. They can have a short in their lights and blow-out an electrical outlet.

Bottom line is there is more POTENTIAL for damage when a group brings in 6 suitcases and a Christmas Tree than if that same group simply has the 6 suitcases. Whether that added damage amounts to $10 per year or $10,000 per year is unknown to us.

I agree on the live tree. Not because they pose a significant fire threat but because the potential for damage is significant. They cannot be easily transported and there is sap to worry about along with keeping it watered without accidentally wetting the carpet.

On the fake tree I think the damage potential is quite low if there are no icycles which can damage vacuum cleaners. Probably lower than someone tripping over a shoe and damaging something in a fall. Anything we bring from home that requires electricity could damage an outlet or blow a breaker. A toddler carrying a sip cup full of koolaide around on the carpet is a high risk item, a fake tree has potential for damage but so does everything.

 

[tjkraz]

On the fake tree I think the damage potential is quite low if there are no icycles which can damage vacuum cleaners. Probably lower than someone tripping over a shoe and damaging something in a fall. Anything we bring from home that requires electricity could damage an outlet or blow a breaker. A toddler carrying a sip cup full of koolaide around on the carpet is a high risk item, a fake tree has potential for damage but so does everything.

The damage potential probably is low but it's about controlling what is reasonably controllable. A hotel cannot ban laptop computers, curling irons or toddlers' sip cups. Kool aid stains certainly cause much more damage than a Christmas tree, but you can't tell a guest that they are prohibited from allowing their toddler to drink in the room. There are certain items guests reasonably expect to be able to use in any hotel/timeshare room.

As for the necessity of a 7' Christmas tree, well that's certainly open to debate. Trees may cause little damage to units comparatively speaking, but they are still non essential items.

If Disney does ever decide to start cracking-down on door decorations and Christmas lights wrapped around balcony railings, I wouldn't be surprised if trees were also on that prohibited list. Until then it's pretty much anything goes.

 

[cseca]

Oy vey, if we're talking about potential there are LOTS of potential.

What about those giant double strollers?
Trying to get into the door with those things are almost impossible without banging into something.

I read in a post waay back when another timeshare owner had a guest who cut through the carpet with scissor.
So are we going to not allow scissors in the room?

What about knives?
Someone could decide to make carvings on the table/chairs with them. So are we not allowed to have knives?

There are lots of potential already in the room, depends on the people to be considerate of the unit.

If Disney is afraid of damage, they will need to screw all furniture down and put padding on all of them. And start to do a "rental car" check before check in and out... and charge each guest accordingly.

As far as other inconsiderate people out there, there's nothing anybody could say that could/would change their minds.

 

[tjkraz]

It's a balancing act. But never instructing children how to behave appropriately is definitely NOT a better way to go. Teaching children to be respectful and courteous isn't likely to come back and bite me.

Just want to add that a 5 second encounter in a hotel hallway doesn't exactly qualify someone to judge others' parenting skills (or lack thereof.) Even the strictest parents know that you cannot control your children's actions 24/7.

Sure there are bad parents. But even the best parent cannot force a tired (or hungry, or hot) 4 year old to tiptoe around, respectful of his/her surroundings every moment of every day.

And to all of the childless adults out there who think otherwise, get back to me when you've walked a mile in our shoes.

Infants, toddlers, elementary school kids and even teens just don't have the self-awareness of a 40-year old adult. We can keep reinforcing proper behavior, but lapses do occur.