Ok I Understand the Excessive Wear and Tear

[tjkraz]

Oy vey, if we're talking about potential there are LOTS of potential.

What about those giant double strollers?
Trying to get into the door with those things are almost impossible without banging into something.

I read in a post waay back when another timeshare owner had a guest who cut through the carpet with scissor.
So are we going to not allow scissors in the room?

What about knives?
Someone could decide to make carvings on the table/chairs with them. So are we not allowed to have knives?

There are lots of potential already in the room, depends on the people to be considerate of the unit.

If Disney is afraid of damage, they will need to screw all furniture down and put padding on all of them. And start to do a "rental car" check before check in and out... and charge each guest accordingly.

As far as other inconsiderate people out there, there's nothing anybody could say that could/would change their minds.

You're missing my point. Obviously Disney cannot prohibit knives and scissors and strollers. Those are essentials for daily life which guests expect to have available. And the resort will unfortunately have to deal with the fallout from inconsiderate guests who damage the accommodations while using such items.

But NON-ESSENTIAL items can reasonably be prohibited even if they cause less damage than an essential item.

 

[Inkmahm]

You're missing my point. Obviously Disney cannot prohibit knives and scissors and strollers. Those are essentials for daily life which guests expect to have available. And the resort will unfortunately have to deal with the fallout from inconsiderate guests who damage the accommodations while using such items.

But NON-ESSENTIAL items can reasonably be prohibited even if they cause less damage than an essential item.

If I were at WDW at Christmas, a tree would be as essential to me as a double stroller may be to someone else. Who gets to decide what is essential and what isn't?

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

If I were at WDW at Christmas, a tree would be as essential to me as a double stroller may be to someone else. Who gets to decide what is essential and what isn't?

Disney won't outlaw Christmas trees because they sell them.

I would totally go along with limiting the size of the Christmas trees.

 

[Inkmahm]

Disney won't outlaw Christmas trees because they sell them.

I would totally go along with limiting the size of the Christmas trees.

See, I'd rather go along with limiting the size of the strollers. Those things do far more damage than a Christmas tree.

 

[BeesKnees]

As for the necessity of a 7' Christmas tree, well that's certainly open to debate. Trees may cause little damage to units comparatively speaking, but they are still non essential items.

My counter to that is that I am on vacation. I can buy pre-ground coffee but I have a coffee grinder in my OL. There is a potential for it to cause damage and it is non essential. Now I am not a conspiracy person that thinks if you give up one thing they will come after everything but I dislike arbitrary rules.

Most likely the reason why Disney doesn't do anything about it is because if the damage done by essential things is the mountain, the non essential things are probably the mole hill. I am sure there are some extremist who decorate to the point of damage but overall we probably make it worse here than it is. Even the tape on the door might be only a single rain drop in the overall hurricane.

I think energy would be better served in my idea of putting a common sense guideline to helping maintain the room in every welcome home pack. Target the areas that cause the most damage and make people more aware. We take for granted that people know right from wrong and that they have common sense but there are a lot of less than smart people out there.

 

[BeesKnees]

If I were at WDW at Christmas, a tree would be as essential to me as a double stroller may be to someone else. Who gets to decide what is essential and what isn't?

There is that. Personally it would not bother me but I couldn't drag my mother to WDW on Christmas day without a tree. She would consider the holiday ruined. In fact, if she were invited for any week after Thanksgiving if she didn't have a tree she would feel like she lost a week of her holiday. I am not sure even a tree would be enough for her on Christmas day. She would never damage the room but she would feel compelled to decorate it. Don't ask me why.

ETA: Come to think of it, she would want to decorate the balcony too. She wouldn't hang lights unless there was an outside outlet but she would want to. I am sure of it.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

See, I'd rather go along with limiting the size of the strollers. Those things do far more damage than a Christmas tree.

Well at least no one just leaves their Xmas trees in common areas like hallways- unlike those double wide strollers that people seem to think that its okay to park outside their doors.

I've had to avoid a few strollers while I walked down the hall at Kidani but I have never had to swerve to avoid hitting a Xmas tree.

 

[BeesKnees]

Well that is going to change. I am going to bring a tree mounted to a doublewide stroller so I can wheel it around with me everywhere.

 

[gkrykewy]

lol, well done. That's funny.

 

[tjkraz]

Who gets to decide what is essential and what isn't?

The condo association and resort management, of course.

Page through the POS and you'll see a slew of arbitrary restrictions which are already in place. Some are safety related--grills, firearms, etc.--but others are just a reflection of the landlord's whims--decor & lights on balconies, bicycles, signage, satellite dishes...even pets could fall under this category.

It's no different than dealing with a homeowners association. Ours has a slew of arbitrary rules and regulations that someone felt were justified (apparently) in the interest of neighborhood uniformity.

Do Christmas Trees damage DVC villas? Yeah, they almost certainly do to some extent. You can't tell me that in the 20-year history of DVC there haven't been any scratched walls or shorted outlets caused by a tree being erected.

Are Christmas Trees necessary in DVC villas? No, of course not. They are "wants", not "needs", by any objective measure.

Is there as significant amount of money involved in repairing damage from Christmas Trees? No. And that's certainly one of the reasons Disney hasn't taken steps to restrict their use. Just no reason to do so.

Personally I don't have a horse in this race. I'm not on a crusade to get Christmas Trees banned from villa rooms. I'm simply trying to make a point that EVERYTHING allowed into a DVC villa has the potential to cause damage and ultimately there is some trade off between repair costs borne by all members and the appropriateness of the item.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

Just want to add that a 5 second encounter in a hotel hallway doesn't exactly qualify someone to judge others' parenting skills (or lack thereof.) Even the strictest parents know that you cannot control your children's actions 24/7.

Sure there are bad parents. But even the best parent cannot force a tired (or hungry, or hot) 4 year old to tiptoe around, respectful of his/her surroundings every moment of every day.

And to all of the childless adults out there who think otherwise, get back to me when you've walked a mile in our shoes.

Infants, toddlers, elementary school kids and even teens just don't have the self-awareness of a 40-year old adult. We can keep reinforcing proper behavior, but lapses do occur.

I agree that there are times when there isn't much to be done but to let a tantrum run its course. It happens, and not just at WDW.

I have been a professional nanny for 17 years, so I know all sorts of kids and all sorts of parents. My own son is 14, my current charges are 4 and 10 months. They all have their moments. If I am subjected to enough of their moments within a narrow timeframe I am likely to have a moment of my own.

I try not to judge, but sometimes it happens anyway.

 

[BeesKnees]

The condo association and resort management, of course.

Page through the POS and you'll see a slew of arbitrary restrictions which are already in place. Some are safety related--grills, firearms, etc.--but others are just a reflection of the landlord's whims--decor & lights on balconies, bicycles, signage, satellite dishes...even pets could fall under this category.

It's no different than dealing with a homeowners association. Ours has a slew of arbitrary rules and regulations that someone felt were justified (apparently) in the interest of neighborhood uniformity.

Do Christmas Trees damage DVC villas? Yeah, they almost certainly do to some extent. You can't tell me that in the 20-year history of DVC there haven't been any scratched walls or shorted outlets caused by a tree being erected.

Are Christmas Trees necessary in DVC villas? No, of course not. They are "wants", not "needs", by any objective measure.

Is there as significant amount of money involved in repairing damage from Christmas Trees? No. And that's certainly one of the reasons Disney hasn't taken steps to restrict their use. Just no reason to do so.

Personally I don't have a horse in this race. I'm not on a crusade to get Christmas Trees banned from villa rooms. I'm simply trying to make a point that EVERYTHING allowed into a DVC villa has the potential to cause damage and ultimately there is some trade off between repair costs borne by all members and the appropriateness of the item.

So I guess I won't have to post the grinch picture I just googled, you are safe for now but I am watching...

I, also, do not care. Despite my claim to build a tree attached to a double-wide stroller I have no plans to ever have one at Disney. I am perfectly happy converting the room tv into a digital picture frame and enjoying pictures of previous Christmases.

My point is to attack the areas of greatest damage with education and not worry about the incidental causes.

 

[cseca]

The condo association and resort management, of course.

Page through the POS and you'll see a slew of arbitrary restrictions which are already in place. Some are safety related--grills, firearms, etc.--but others are just a reflection of the landlord's whims--decor & lights on balconies, bicycles, signage, satellite dishes...even pets could fall under this category.

...

Personally I don't have a horse in this race. I'm not on a crusade to get Christmas Trees banned from villa rooms. I'm simply trying to make a point that EVERYTHING allowed into a DVC villa has the potential to cause damage and ultimately there is some trade off between repair costs borne by all members and the appropriateness of the item.

I agree with you completely on the spirit of the argument BUT Disney would have to maintain a pretty giant list AAAAAND... enforce them...
Now the giant list is doable, I'm laughing at the second part.
A giant list without enforcement would be the same as status quo. And the problem will continue.

You've heard Mousekeeping have issues already getting the rooms clean on time, let alone doing additional checks.

It's sad really, people just have to be considerate and all this problem would go away...

 

[Donut23]

First, I agree that it's questionable whether the sections I quoted from the POS would prohibit Christmas trees. There is some language about altering furnishings and decorations. But in the end, Disney is not solely bound by the POS when it comes to managing the properties. If they want to say "no Christmas Trees", that is certainly within their rights.

(As a sidebar, honestly I'm surprised that there isn't a clause specifically prohibiting Christmas trees, or at least LIVE Christmas trees. Those pose a fire hazard. Most rental properties expressly prohibit live trees. The absence of any similar clause here may indicate that Disney didn't even expect trees to be an issue.)

All of that said, Disney has obviously chosen not to do much to enforce any of the sections I quoted so it's a moot point.

As for the damage issue, there's more to it than just plugging in a Christmas tree. The tree needs to be transported and assembled in the room and honestly anything can happen during that process. Even the most conscientious individuals can accidentally snag a seam in the wallpaper while attaching branches to the tree or knock a picture off the walls. They can have a short in their lights and blow-out an electrical outlet.

Bottom line is there is more POTENTIAL for damage when a group brings in 6 suitcases and a Christmas Tree than if that same group simply has the 6 suitcases. Whether that added damage amounts to $10 per year or $10,000 per year is unknown to us.

Two adults here. 2 checked bags, 2 carry on bags and one boxed (3 foot) Christmas tree for 10 days. Instructions, pull out of box, place on table, plug in. I suspect that 6 foot tree you bought from Disney (the $350 one) has more potential to damage the room during setup and take down.

I'm not sure that unpacking is considered excessve abuse to the room.....but I bet a family of 4 (including 2 little ones) offers far more potential for abuse than we do. (no disrespect at all for the family with the 2 little ones...the children are just being....children).

By the way, on our last December trip at Boardwalk (2008 - we were busy decorating our 2 br villa at GCV in 2009), we were complimented by the Guest Services Manager......"we all LOVE your room decorations".

HO HO HO to all.....look for our tree in December at Beach Club! If you are lucky, you will be assigned our room when we leave. It's always spotless - maybe why our maids love us - we even take out the trash on the last run to the car!!!


ps
I WILL say, one of our other 3 DVC friends is a living and walking image of "pigpen" from Snoopy (said with greatest affection). The 4 of us go out of our way to make sure he leaves no trace when we leave. He causes more MESS in one visit than 10 years of our holiday decorations!!!

 

[DisDaydreamer]

I see your point too. Being strict though is not the enemy. That is the way it has always been done until recently.

I think many parents have lost their natural instincts. As soon as I hit puberty a switch went off in my parents (especially my father) to switch from protective mode to preparing mode just like it happens in the wild. I went through the normal tug-of-war between being a child and becoming a man but they pushed me on. They gave me ever increasing amounts of responsibilities and freedom. By driving age there was none of this call when you get there and call when you leave to come home business, my being away from home with scheduled return times was so commonplace it wasn't necessary. I was only to call if I was going to be late.

By 18 I was not only a legal adult but an adult ready to stand on my own two feet without the need of my parents.

Of course, when I was growing up there had been a relatively recent draft so the scariest thing was not that something bad would happen to me, the scariest thing was if I turned 18 and was shipped off to fight the commies unprepared to take care of myself.

I certainly didn't mean to sound like being strict is the enemy, but it isn't always the answer either. I guess I made a poor effort in saying don't always blame the parents. I was married and owned my own home at 18 and it had nothing to do with my parents, both alcoholics, divorced and remarried multiple times. I can't explain it. My DW and I frequently try to understand why our children didn't grow up like us. It wasn't from a lack of trying or effort. We have neighbors that we secretly chastised often as to how they let their children do whatever they wanted. We thought we knew better. Their kids are just perfect. It boggles the mind. Sorry if I offended anyone. I just don't judge anyone's ability to properly raise their kids anymore.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

Well that is going to change. I am going to bring a tree mounted to a doublewide stroller so I can wheel it around with me everywhere.

 

[BeesKnees]

I certainly didn't mean to sound like being strict is the enemy, but it isn't always the answer either. I guess I made a poor effort in saying don't always blame the parents. I was married and owned my own home at 18 and it had nothing to do with my parents, both alcoholics, divorced and remarried multiple times. I can't explain it. My DW and I frequently try to understand why our children didn't grow up like us. It wasn't from a lack of trying or effort. We have neighbors that we secretly chastised often as to how they let their children do whatever they wanted. We thought we knew better. Their kids are just perfect. It boggles the mind. Sorry if I offended anyone. I just don't judge anyone's ability to properly raise their kids anymore.

I don't think it is judgement just a conversation about different styles and what seems to work and what doesn't. My parents were certainly not model parents either. There is much I learned from watching their mistakes.

I don't want to imply anything so I don't mean any offense when I ask this next question. There are obviously different levels of alcoholism so I am not trying to stereotype your parents as bad or absent more than they should or that they did not care for you properly. However, I am interested if you feel like you were more mature at 18 because you had to learn early to take care of yourself and at times possibly even your parents?

The reason why I ask is that I wonder if parents today treat their children as too fragile. My parents did not which helped me mature faster and I wonder if you were forced to grow up faster too.

Sometimes I wonder if we have too much information at our fingertips and it makes people more afraid even of statistical improbabilities. If it happens to one child in a million there is a chance it could happen to yours. My parents didn't have the interwebs, scary lifetime movies, and around the clock coverage of sensational news. They were aware there were dangers but they weren't bombarded with it all the time.

 

[Dean]

Oy vey, if we're talking about potential there are LOTS of potential.

What about those giant double strollers?
Trying to get into the door with those things are almost impossible without banging into something.

I read in a post waay back when another timeshare owner had a guest who cut through the carpet with scissor.
So are we going to not allow scissors in the room?

What about knives?
Someone could decide to make carvings on the table/chairs with them. So are we not allowed to have knives?

There are lots of potential already in the room, depends on the people to be considerate of the unit.

If Disney is afraid of damage, they will need to screw all furniture down and put padding on all of them. And start to do a "rental car" check before check in and out... and charge each guest accordingly.

As far as other inconsiderate people out there, there's nothing anybody could say that could/would change their minds.

Personally I don't think a single small artificial tree indoors is unreasonable though I find your extreme examples are. i do think that decorations tacked, taped, wrapped, etc are unreasonable. I think the general point is that truly reasonably preventable items should be controlled and that there are items that are a cost of doing business. IF someone cuts the carpet or has similar gross and preventable damages, they should be charged. It's actually not necessary for a resort to have to prove who did it, only to make a decision themselves of whether to charge the guest. Some will yell and scream, those that are guilty will do so the most.

 

[Lost in Neverland]

Just want to add that a 5 second encounter in a hotel hallway doesn't exactly qualify someone to judge others' parenting skills (or lack thereof.) Even the strictest parents know that you cannot control your children's actions 24/7.

Sure there are bad parents. But even the best parent cannot force a tired (or hungry, or hot) 4 year old to tiptoe around, respectful of his/her surroundings every moment of every day.

And to all of the childless adults out there who think otherwise, get back to me when you've walked a mile in our shoes.

Infants, toddlers, elementary school kids and even teens just don't have the self-awareness of a 40-year old adult. We can keep reinforcing proper behavior, but lapses do occur.

I agree with you completely but I think it just comes back to redirection and reminding. No one can stop a pending tantrum that comes from exhaustion. I am not doing my job as a parent though unless I keep reminding my kids that we are not the only ones around and to use their inside voice and to stay seated at the table without crawling around under the tables. Yes even the smallest ones have a breaking point but as the parent you must know when that time is and remove the child because even though I have kids I do not want to listen to a child have a fit or even worse try to have dinner with them running wild. I remember before our kids I could not understand why a parent could not "control" their child all the time. Oh great one of ignorant stupidity . It did not take long before I found out.

 

[disney54us]

Only in NY kids, Only in NY..... So the saying goes in the NY post Celebrity column. We can change that to only on DVC boards. The poster asked a question and why they would think that a little xmas tree would add to wear and tear??? Don't know, b/f you know we are banning trees 'arguing' about what is essential and parenting skills. Maybe they show more wear and tear b/c they are not on the same time line as the resorts are for room refurbishing. I will repeat since DVC holds more guest that = more wear and tear coming in and out. Have you ever gone to someone's home who has no kids at home no pets and wondered why there home looks so lovely?
Those who tape, duck tape etc. and just don't give a hoot would be doing the same to a resort room. Maybe we could just campaign for them to stay there?

First, I agree that it's questionable whether the sections I quoted from the POS would prohibit Christmas trees. There is some language about altering furnishings and decorations. But in the end, Disney is not solely bound by the POS when it comes to managing the properties. If they want to say "no Christmas Trees", that is certainly within their rights.
As for the damage issue, there's more to it than just plugging in a Christmas tree. The tree needs to be transported and assembled in the room and honestly anything can happen during that process. Even the most conscientious individuals can accidentally snag a seam in the wallpaper while attaching branches to the tree or knock a picture off the walls. They can have a short in their lights and blow-out an electrical outlet.

Transported? It gets shipped for those who want to trek it with them great. Assembled? Somewhere Christmas tree's grew to 7 ft in this thread. Most bring a 3-4 ft. no assembly required just start bending the branches.
The curling irons, electric razors, and computers that use so much power can blow out a outlet to. Add to that the kid who has a nebulizer it gets plugged in and some of them are heavy so it may scratch something. Yes they can say no but they won't because they make money from the people that come in for Christmas and have the money to spend at Disney Florist to have there villa or resort room decorated.

Oy vey, if we're talking about potential there are LOTS of potential.

What about those giant double strollers?
Trying to get into the door with those things are almost impossible without banging into something.

I read in a post waay back when another timeshare owner had a guest who cut through the carpet with scissor.
So are we going to not allow scissors in the room?

What about knives?
Someone could decide to make carvings on the table/chairs with them. So are we not allowed to have knives?

There are lots of potential already in the room, depends on the people to be considerate of the unit.

If Disney is afraid of damage, they will need to screw all furniture down and put padding on all of them. And start to do a "rental car" check before check in and out... and charge each guest accordingly.

As far as other inconsiderate people out there, there's nothing anybody could say that could/would change their minds.

So true! I think they do clue down a few things already.

You're missing my point. Obviously Disney cannot prohibit knives and scissors and strollers. Those are essentials for daily life which guests expect to have available. And the resort will unfortunately have to deal with the fallout from inconsiderate guests who damage the accommodations while using such items.

But NON-ESSENTIAL items can reasonably be prohibited even if they cause less damage than an essential item.

Then our dues would go up because they would have to have a DVC custom's line at check in.

If I were at WDW at Christmas, a tree would be as essential to me as a double stroller may be to someone else. Who gets to decide what is essential and what isn't?

I would say the Christmas tree, those dble strollers scare me.

Disney won't outlaw Christmas trees because they sell them.


I would totally go along with limiting the size of the Christmas trees.

Did I miss a post or thread about people bringing life size trees in?

Well that is going to change. I am going to bring a tree mounted to a doublewide stroller so I can wheel it around with me everywhere.