OFFICIAL 2014 WDW Marathon Countdown: WE DID IT! Congrats everyone!

[roomthreeseventeen]

A three week taper seems a little ridiculous. Everything I have read and seen does a taper is also supposed to be very active. Lots of shorter more intense intervals . It's worked well for me

I hope you're kidding, but every new marathoner should do a 3 week taper. Once you have done more marathons, you can do a 2 week taper with no problems. I think you also don't know what a taper is. It isn't zero miles.

 

[cewait]

I realize you are a coach, but suggesting that someone can go from half marathon to marathon in the next 4 weeks (leaving in a 3 week taper) is ridiculous.

Now, now....

 

[providince]

I've seen way too many people taper and drop their miles significantly. I think most taper should be 85 to 90 percent of your average miles. Given that it takes up to 10 to 12 days to fully recover from a 20 miler keep your extreme distances down 2 weeks out. When I also say intervals, I should be more specific. I am NOT talking intervals like training for a 5k, more 8 mile run first four miles at marathon pace last four miles blow it out. Again, you ask 10 people how to prepare for a marathon you will get 10 different answers. Ultimately get to the start line healthy and confident. We probably agree on the vast majority of what each other is saying.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I've seen way too many people taper and drop their miles significantly. I think most taper should be 85 to 90 percent of your average miles. Given that it takes up to 10 to 12 days to fully recover from a 20 miler keep your extreme distances down 2 weeks out. When I also say intervals, I should be more specific. I am NOT talking intervals like training for a 5k, more 8 mile run first four miles at marathon pace last four miles blow it out. Again, you ask 10 people how to prepare for a marathon you will get 10 different answers. Ultimately get to the start line healthy and confident. We probably agree on the vast majority of what each other is saying.

OK, great. Well, that goes against almost every professional marathon plan out there.

 

[providince]

Not the ones I've seen. I would be curious what your recommendation is.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Not the ones I've seen. I would be curious what your recommendation is.

Seriously? I think you must be trolling. There is no plan that recommends you only drop to 90% of your miles during taper. Be gone, troll.

 

[providince]

Since you can't answer the question, here's an article supported by research that talks about reducing to 85-90% http://running.competitor.com/2013/10/training/the-three-most-common-tapering-mistakes_58795.
Sounds like you need to work your leg muscles more than your internet muscles with name calling. You seem very angry. I hope whatever is making you this way gets better and you have a better day.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Since you can't answer the question, here's an article supported by research that talks about reducing to 85-90% http://running.competitor.com/2013/10/training/the-three-most-common-tapering-mistakes_58795.
Sounds like you need to work your leg muscles more than your internet muscles with name calling. You seem very angry. I hope whatever is making you this way gets better and you have a better day.

The ignore is a beautiful feature. Goodbye.

 

[cewait]

FWIW we are all an experiment of one. I personally have never tapered more than 2 weeks unless injured. Gallowalker is kind of the godfather of the idea of a week longer in taper and others have jumped on board.

As a practicable matter, while conventional wisdom of the taper has one lowering overall miles, the intensity should not fall off. In fact, for those who follow a ‘real’ carboloading strategy, you most intense days of work will be about 10 days pre-race. That effort is focused on carb depletion and one must push the muscle hard to pull the stores down.

 

[providince]

Cewait you said it better than I could. Ultimately this is supposed to be fun. Very few win or make a living on this.

 

[IamTrike]

I realize you are a coach, but suggesting that someone can go from half marathon to marathon in the next 4 weeks (leaving in a 3 week taper) is ridiculous.

To be fair he did caveat it a lot. Disney courses permit a fairly slow pace. If this person was comfortably finishing a two hour half they would build up quite a time cushion to walk the last half. It's not something I'd recommend people to do, but I do think it's possible.

I've seen way too many people taper and drop their miles significantly. I think most taper should be 85 to 90 percent of your average miles. Given that it takes up to 10 to 12 days to fully recover from a 20 miler keep your extreme distances down 2 weeks out. When I also say intervals, I should be more specific. I am NOT talking intervals like training for a 5k, more 8 mile run first four miles at marathon pace last four miles blow it out. Again, you ask 10 people how to prepare for a marathon you will get 10 different answers. Ultimately get to the start line healthy and confident. We probably agree on the vast majority of what each other is saying.

I spot checked about 10 different marathon plans and all of them had the long runs during the taper cut buy at least 50%. I'm not sure whom the competitor article is aimed at but it seems to assume a weekly milage of around 60 Miles. I think that is much greater than what a lot of people running disney will be doing.

Seriously? I think you must be trolling. There is no plan that recommends you only drop to 90% of your miles during taper. Be gone, troll.

I have to agree here maintaining 90% of your milage doesn't really seem like much of a taper.

 

[Diskidatheart]

I'm sure everyone agrees that what works for one person, may not be suitable for another. Hal Higdon suggests in his books that you should taper 3 weeks prior to the race by cutting your long run mileage by 40% 2 weeks out and then cutting it another 33% the week prior to the race (and also cutting your mid-week mileage as well). However, with that being said, he also mentions that he never did that. He would taper for 1 week which would be enough for him to have fresh legs for the race. I think it really depends on your level and as I said, whatever works for you may not work for others. I beleive there would be some benefit of minimizing your taper, but there is also benefits of a 3 week tapering. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong in this instance.

 

[RnbwSktles]

As a contrarian, I think it possible - if I understand correctly. She ran a training run of 14 for the W&D and now wants to run the marathon. If that is the case, yes, she has more than enough time to get ready for the marathon. It may not be pretty and she may have a few race day issues to deal with, but yes it is possible. Now, if I read this as she only plans to run 14 as a long run and struggle around for the remaining 12 miles… Yikes! If she is in very good condition and is having no issue, then it is possible. Honestly, folks can and do run endurance activities with a longest training day approximating 50-60% of the race distance. It takes a good all round conditioning and a tough mental outlook to accomplish the day. It also requires that they start off the race at a pace that feels very slow. Really, how many folks run 50 miles in training for an ultra event?.

Thanks for making me feel better, Coach. As I mentioned in a post a few days ago, I am basically in the same position as this friend and I feel confident that my plan will get me to the finish line. You actually helped modify it for me and I listened to about 90% of your advice

Now, I am not racing for time. I just want to finish before the sweepers and hopefully have enough time to take a few photos. I expect to be miserable and in some considerable amount of pain at the end, but I don't really care. As long as I can enjoy the rest of my week in Disney, I will be happy.

Does anyone watch How I Met Your Mother?
Barney: "You don't train for a marathon. You just run it!"

 

[ZellyB]

Hi, all,
I've hit a snag in my training and just wanted to whine about it here and see if anyone has additional advice. Training for my second marathon and all was well until a 17 mile training run several weeks back. After the run my right hip and knee started bothering me. Discomfort was minimal so I didn't adjust my training. 3 weeks ago I ran a local half marathon and the knee became bothersome and then ultimately quite painful by the end of the run. I've seen a trainer and a sports medicine person who both think my suspicion of IT band issues is correct. I'm rolling it twice a day and stretching and took a two week break from training but improvement is minimal. I ran an easy 4 miles on Tuesday and the pain flared right back up. We are scheduled for a 20 miler this weekend and I'm pretty sure I can't do that mileage right now.

So what to do? Do I just continue to lay off the running for another couple of weeks and then try again? Push through and just see what I can manage? I'm so frustrated and worried about being recovered by January.

 

[cewait]

Hi, all,
I've hit a snag in my training and just wanted to whine about it here and see if anyone has additional advice. Training for my second marathon and all was well until a 17 mile training run several weeks back. After the run my right hip and knee started bothering me. Discomfort was minimal so I didn't adjust my training. 3 weeks ago I ran a local half marathon and the knee became bothersome and then ultimately quite painful by the end of the run. I've seen a trainer and a sports medicine person who both think my suspicion of IT band issues is correct. I'm rolling it twice a day and stretching and took a two week break from training but improvement is minimal. I ran an easy 4 miles on Tuesday and the pain flared right back up. We are scheduled for a 20 miler this weekend and I'm pretty sure I can't do that mileage right now.

So what to do? Do I just continue to lay off the running for another couple of weeks and then try again? Push through and just see what I can manage? I'm so frustrated and worried about being recovered by January.

On the outset, I would suggest a week to recover. Continue following the doc’s orders and consider taking NSAIDs if not already taking them. It’s better to miss a long run now than on race day or saying it another way; “Much better to come into a race undertrained and well than to come in well trained and injured.” Probably not what you want to hear.

However, I know that it not really the answer you are looking for. You could look at a neoprene knee sleeve as a means of compressing and warming the insertion point of the tendon. If you have a set of compression tights, you may consider trying a run in them. Then there is the KT Tape method of working around an injury. These are only temporary fixes and you may come out of this weekend’s run even more injured than before.

Obviously this is a tough decision. At this point in time, given the fact you do not feel like you could run 20 today, I would bail and go get a sports massage.

 

[cewait]

***********************
Does anyone watch How I Met Your Mother?
Barney: "You don't train for a marathon. You just run it!"

There is more truth in this than one knows. For the 99.6% of us lining up on Epcot Drive in January, the mission of the day is to keep up with the relentless pursuit of forward momentum. As long as one stays within their means in the early miles, the day is all about working around the thousands of messages you will receive throughout the race telling you to stop, to walk just a little longer, to stop at the potty (even though you just stopped), get on the bus.... Your mission is to just run your race.

 

[bumbershoot]

To be fair he did caveat it a lot.

I agree. he used lots and lots of words to, I feel, basically say "this person is going to do it, so let's figure out a way to help with that absolute goal".

I knew plenty of people, especially when younger, who just DID these things. Challenged by someone, signed up, did it. Think of young military people, going from whatever they did in high school to long long runs with packs on, etc. It's not what i would want to do, but if I suddenly decided I was going to do something, I would hope someone would give me a few tips on how to do it if I was so set on doing it.

 

[JeffW]

<snip> ...my suspicion of IT band issues is correct. I'm rolling it twice a day and stretching and took a two week break from training but improvement is minimal. I ran an easy 4 miles on Tuesday and the pain flared right back up. We are scheduled for a 20 miler this weekend and I'm pretty sure I can't do that mileage right now.

So what to do? Do I just continue to lay off the running for another couple of weeks and then try again? Push through and just see what I can manage? I'm so frustrated and worried about being recovered by January.

I went through something almost identical to this, about 6 weeks before a marathon. Coach is definitely right, don't try to run through it, it doesn't help. One thing you didn't mention, however, was any strength exercises. My Dr. said most of the issues he sees in this area are lack of strength in the Gluteus Medius area, and had me doing the following exercises daily, along with water running (which is boring, but works).

1) Standing Sideways leg extension with elastic band. To do this for your right leg, balance with your right foot barely off the ground, and an elastic band around your right ankle and anchored to something sturdy to your left. Extend your right leg out to the side, against the resistance of the band.
2) Side-lying leg lifts. No resistance other than gravity, but if your hips/glutes are weak like mine were, 20-30 of these will wear you out
3) Side-lying "clam" with elastic band around the knees
4) "Fire Hydrants" (Google fire hydrant exercise)
5) "Lateral Band Walk" (again, Google is good. I do this with the band around my ankles, not my knees)

Good luck!

 

[Disaholic73]

I went through something almost identical to this, about 6 weeks before a marathon. Coach is definitely right, don't try to run through it, it doesn't help. One thing you didn't mention, however, was any strength exercises. My Dr. said most of the issues he sees in this area are lack of strength in the Gluteus Medius area, and had me doing the following exercises daily, along with water running (which is boring, but works).

1) Standing Sideways leg extension with elastic band. To do this for your right leg, balance with your right foot barely off the ground, and an elastic band around your right ankle and anchored to something sturdy to your left. Extend your right leg out to the side, against the resistance of the band.
2) Side-lying leg lifts. No resistance other than gravity, but if your hips/glutes are weak like mine were, 20-30 of these will wear you out
3) Side-lying "clam" with elastic band around the knees
4) "Fire Hydrants" (Google fire hydrant exercise)
5) "Lateral Band Walk" (again, Google is good. I do this with the band around my ankles, not my knees)

Good luck!

You absolutely CANNOT push through this and the only way is to address the issue itself, as outlined above. After a 16 mile training run in Sept, I developed IT band issues on the outside of my right knee. Could not run and went to the Dr. He sent me to PT and prescribed lidoderm patches to try to kill the nerves in my knee so that I could run through it. Took the next two weeks off and ran a half marathon as a "training run". Pain flared up after 3 miles and ended up having to drag my leg and walk the last 4, but I crossed the finish line. I had to take the next 4 weeks off and did the PT regimen up until I ran the Detroit Marathon. It was extremely personal that I cross that finish line. I was able to make it 16 miles until I could really feel the pain and shut it down before it got too intense and walked the last 10.2 miles. I have finished PT and am slowly starting back to the running. Since I don't care about time I am doing just enough to keep the body used to the road without causing more issues. I tape my knee in a special way to "unload" the fat pad and patella and this seems to really be helping. This wasn't my first rodeo as I have done three halfs and three fulls and this is the first time I have ever had to deal with this.....and hope my last. I am just going to take it easy, not push it and if it takes me the full time both days to complete the Goofy Challenge, so be it.
Good luck to you. I know first hand how painful and mentally agonizing this can be. Especially when you feel great two miles into a run and then by mile 3 you can hardly move your leg. Rest, stretching, strength exercises for glutes, core and hamstring are what I worked on.

 

[providince]

I hope you both feel better so that you can have a wonderful, stress free, pain free, Disney running experience