Obama supporters! - A positive place to talk about his campaign

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Just saw this list on another board. I woulda posted it on the Liberal Thread, but I can't even find it at this point (hmmm...seems I read somewhere that, with conversation about the nomination process banned from the thread, it'd end up on page 9 somewhere with nobody posting...who was it that wrote that again? ;) ).

Anyway, you guys might want to file this away for the next time one of our conservative friends tries to claim that neither Bush nor anyone in his administration lied in the lead-up to Iraq:

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."

- Dick Cheney, Vice President
Speech to VFW National Convention
8/26/2002

"There is already a mountain of evidence that Saddam Hussein is gathering weapons for the purpose of using them. And adding additional information is like adding a foot to Mount Everest."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Response to Question From Press
9/6/2002

"We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

- Condoleeza Rice, US National Security Advisor
CNN Late Edition
9/8/2002

"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."

- George W. Bush, President
Speech to UN General Assembly
9/12/2002

"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."

- George W. Bush, President
Radio Address
10/5/2002

"The Iraqi regime...possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."

- George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

"And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons."

- George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

"After eleven years during which we have tried containment, sanctions, inspections, even selected military action, the end result is that Saddam Hussein still has chemical and biological weapons and is increasing his capabilities to make more. And he is moving ever closer to developing a nuclear weapon."

- George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas."

- George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

"Iraq, despite UN sanctions, maintains an aggressive program to rebuild the infrastructure for its nuclear, chemical, biological, and missile programs. In each instance, Iraq's procurement agents are actively working to obtain both weapons-specific and dual-use materials and technologies critical to their rebuilding and expansion efforts, using front companies and whatever illicit means are at hand."

- John Bolton, Undersecretary of State for Arms Control
Speech to the Hudson Institute
11/1/2002

"We estimate that once Iraq acquires fissile material -- whether from a foreign source or by securing the materials to build an indigenous fissile material capability -- it could fabricate a nuclear weapon within one year. It has rebuilt its civilian chemical infrastructure and renewed production of chemical warfare agents, probably including mustard, sarin, and VX. It actively maintains all key aspects of its offensive BW program."

- John Bolton, Undersecretary of State for Arms Control
Speech to the Hudson Institute
11/1/2002

"Iraq could decide on any given day to provide biological or chemical weapons to a terrorist group or to individual terrorists...The war on terror will not be won until Iraq is completely and verifiably deprived of weapons of mass destruction."

- Dick Cheney, Vice President
Denver, Address To Air National Guard
12/1/2002

"If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
12/2/2002

"The president of the United States and the secretary of defense would not assert as plainly and bluntly as they have that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction if it was not true, and if they did not have a solid basis for saying it."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Response to Question From Press
12/4/2002

"We know for a fact that there are weapons there."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
1/9/2003

"I am absolutely convinced, based on the information that's been given to me, that the weapon of mass destruction which can kill more people than an atomic bomb -- that is, biological weapons -- is in the hands of the leadership of Iraq."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
MSNBC Interview
1/10/2003

"What is unique about Iraq compared to, I would argue, any other country in the world, in this juncture, is the exhaustion of diplomacy thus far, and, No. 2, this intersection of weapons of mass destruction."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
NewsHour Interview
1/22/2003

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production."

- George W. Bush, President
State of the Union Address
1/28/2003

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."

- George W. Bush, President
State of the Union Address
1/28/2003

"We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Remarks to UN Security Council
2/5/2003

"There can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein has biological weapons and the capability to rapidly produce more, many more. And he has the ability to dispense these lethal poisons and diseases in ways that can cause massive death and destruction. If biological weapons seem too terrible to contemplate, chemical weapons are equally chilling."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Addresses the U.N. Security Council
2/5/2003

"In Iraq, a dictator is building and hiding weapons that could enable him to dominate the Middle East and intimidate the civilized world -- and we will not allow it."

- George W. Bush, President
Speech to the American Enterprise Institute
2/26/2003

"If Iraq had disarmed itself, gotten rid of its weapons of mass destruction over the past 12 years, or over the last several months since (UN Resolution) 1441 was enacted, we would not be facing the crisis that we now have before us...But the suggestion that we are doing this because we want to go to every country in the Middle East and rearrange all of its pieces is not correct."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Interview with Radio France International
2/28/2003

"I am not eager to send young Americans into harm's way in Iraq, or to see innocent people killed or hurt in military operations. Given all of the facts and circumstances known to us, however, I am convinced that if we wait, a threat will continue to materialize in Iraq that could cause incalculable damage to world peace in general, and to the United States in particular."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
Letter to Future of Freedom Foundation
3/1/2003

"Iraq is a grave threat to this nation. It desires to acquire and use weapons of mass terror and is run by a despot with a proven record of willingness to use them. Iraq has had 12 years to comply with UN requirements for disarmament and has failed to do so. The president is right to say it's time has run out."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
Senate Speech
3/7/2003

"So has the strategic decision been made to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction by the leadership in Baghdad? I think our judgment has to be clearly not."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Remarks to UN Security Council
3/7/2003

"Getting rid of Saddam Hussein's regime is our best inoculation. Destroying once and for all his weapons of disease and death is a vaccination for the world."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
Washington Post op-ed
3/16/2003

"Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that based on intelligence, that has been very, very good at hiding these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."

- Dick Cheney, Vice President
Meet The Press
3/16/2003

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

- George W. Bush, President
Address to the Nation
3/17/2003

"The United States...is now at war so we will not ever see what terrorists could do if supplied with weapons of mass destruction by Saddam Hussein."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
Senate Debate
3/20/2003

"Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly . . . all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
3/21/2003

"There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. And...as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them."

- General Tommy Franks, Commander in Chief Central Command
Press Conference
3/22/2003

"One of our top objectives is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites."

- Victoria Clark, Pentagon Spokeswoman
Press Briefing
3/22/2003

"I have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction."

- Kenneth Adelman, Defense Policy Board member
Washington Post, p. A27
3/23/2003

"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
ABC Interview
3/30/2003

"We simply cannot live in fear of a ruthless dictator, aggressor and terrorist such as Saddam Hussein, who possesses the world's most deadly weapons."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
Speech to American Israel Political Action Committee
3/31/2003

"We still need to find and secure Iraq's weapons of mass destruction facilities and secure Iraq's borders so we can prevent the flow of weapons of mass destruction materials and senior regime officials out of the country."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Press Conference
4/9/2003

"You bet we're concerned about it. And one of the reasons it's important is because the nexus between terrorist states with weapons of mass destruction...and terrorist groups -- networks -- is a critical link. And the thought that...some of those materials could leave the country and in the hands of terrorist networks would be a very unhappy prospect. So it is important to us to see that that doesn't happen."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Press Conference
4/9/2003

"Obviously the administration intends to publicize all the weapons of mass destruction U.S. forces find -- and there will be plenty."

- Robert Kagan, Neocon scholar
Washington Post op-ed
4/9/2003

"I think you have always heard, and you continue to hear from officials, a measure of high confidence that, indeed, the weapons of mass destruction will be found."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
4/10/2003

"But make no mistake -- as I said earlier -- we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about. And we have high confidence it will be found."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
4/10/2003

"Were not going to find anything until we find people who tell us where the things are. And we have that very high on our priority list, to find the people who know. And when we do, then well learn precisely where things were and what was done."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Meet the Press
4/13/2003

"I have absolute confidence that there are weapons of mass destruction inside this country. Whether we will turn out, at the end of the day, to find them in one of the 2,000 or 3,000 sites we already know about or whether contact with one of these officials who we may come in contact with will tell us, 'Oh, well, there's actually another site,' and we'll find it there, I'm not sure."

- General Tommy Franks, Commander in Chief Central Command
Fox News
4/13/2003

"We are learning more as we interrogate or have discussions with Iraqi scientists and people within the Iraqi structure, that perhaps he destroyed some, perhaps he dispersed some. And so we will find them."

- George W. Bush, President
NBC Interview
4/24/2003

"There are people who in large measure have information that we need...so that we can track down the weapons of mass destruction in that country."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Press Briefing
4/25/2003

"We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so."

- George W. Bush, President
Remarks to Reporters
5/3/2003

"I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it just now."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Remarks to Reporters
5/4/2003

"We never believed that we'd just tumble over weapons of mass destruction in that country."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Fox News Interview
5/4/2003

"I'm not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein -- because he had a weapons program."

- George W. Bush, President
Remarks to Reporters
5/6/2003

"U.S. officials never expected that 'we were going to open garages and find' weapons of mass destruction."

- Condoleeza Rice, US National Security Advisor
Reuters Interview
5/12/2003

"I just don't know whether it was all destroyed years ago -- I mean, there's no question that there were chemical weapons years ago -- whether they were destroyed right before the war, (or) whether they're still hidden."

- Maj. Gen. David Petraeus, Commander 101st Airborne
Press Briefing
5/13/2003

"We said all along that we will never get to the bottom of the Iraqi WMD program simply by going and searching specific sites, that you'd have to be able to get people who know about the programs to talk to you."

- Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Secretary of Defense
Interview with Australian Broadcasting
5/13/2003

"Before the war, there's no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical. I expected them to be found. I still expect them to be found."

- Gen. Michael Hagee, Commandant of the Marine Corps
Interview with Reporters
5/21/2003

"It's going to take time to find them, but we know he had them. And whether he destroyed them, moved them or hid them, we're going to find out the truth. One thing is for certain: Saddam Hussein no longer threatens America with weapons of mass destruction."

- George W. Bush, President
Speech at a weapons factory in Ohio
5/25/2003

"Given time, given the number of prisoners now that we're interrogating, I'm confident that we're going to find weapons of mass destruction."

- Gen. Richard Myers, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff
NBC Today Show interview
5/26/2003

"They may have had time to destroy them, and I don't know the answer."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Remarks to Council on Foreign Relations
5/27/2003

"For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on."

- Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Secretary of Defense
Vanity Fair interview
5/28/2003

"The President is indeed satisfied with the intelligence that he received. And I think that's borne out by the fact that, just as Secretary Powell described at the United Nations, we have found the bio trucks that can be used only for the purpose of producing biological weapons. That's proof-perfect that the intelligence in that regard was right on target."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
5/29/2003

"We have teams of people that are out looking. They've investigated a number of sites. And within the last week or two, they have in fact captured and have in custody two of the mobile trailers that Secretary Powell talked about at the United Nations as being biological weapons laboratories."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Infinity Radio Interview
5/30/2003

"But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."

- George W. Bush, President
Interview with TVP Poland
5/30/2003

"You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons...They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two...And we'll find more weapons as time goes on."

- George W. Bush, President
Press Briefing
5/30/2003

"It was a surprise to me then -- it remains a surprise to me now -- that we have not uncovered weapons, as you say, in some of the forward dispersal sites. Believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there."

- Lt. Gen. James Conway, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force
Press Interview
5/30/2003

"Do I think we're going to find something? Yeah, I kind of do, because I think there's a lot of information out there."

- Maj. Gen. Keith Dayton, Defense Intelligence Agency
Press Conference
5/30/2003

"This wasn't material I was making up, it came from the intelligence community."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Press Briefing
6/2/2003

"We recently found two mobile biological weapons facilities which were capable of producing biological agents. This is the man who spent decades hiding tools of mass murder. He knew the inspectors were looking for them. You know better than me he's got a big country in which to hide them. We're on the look. We'll reveal the truth."

- George W. Bush, President Camp Sayliya, Qatar
6/5/2003

"I would put before you Exhibit A, the mobile biological labs that we have found. People are saying, 'Well, are they truly mobile biological labs?' Yes, they are. And the DCI, George Tenet, Director of Central Intelligence, stands behind that assessment."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Fox News Interview
6/8/2003

"No one ever said that we knew precisely where all of these agents were, where they were stored."

- Condoleeza Rice, US National Security Advisor
Meet the Press
6/8/2003

"What the president has said is because it's been the long-standing view of numerous people, not only in this country, not only in this administration, but around the world, including at the United Nations, who came to those conclusions...And the president is not going to engage in the rewriting of history that others may be trying to engage in."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Response to Question From Press
6/9/2003

"Iraq had a weapons program...Intelligence throughout the decade showed they had a weapons program. I am absolutely convinced with time we'll find out they did have a weapons program."

- George W. Bush, President
Comment to Reporters
6/9/2003

"The biological weapons labs that we believe strongly are biological weapons labs, we didn't find any biological weapons with those labs. But should that give us any comfort? Not at all. Those were labs that could produce biological weapons whenever Saddam Hussein might have wanted to have a biological weapons inventory."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Associated Press Interview
6/12/2003

"Those documents were only one piece of evidence in a larger body of evidence suggesting that Iraq attempted to purchase uranium from Africa...The issue of Iraq's pursuit of uranium in Africa is supported by multiple sources of intelligence. The other sources of evidence did and do support the president's statement."

- Sean McCormack, National Security Council Spokesman
Statement to press
6/13/2003

"My personal view is that their intelligence has been, I'm sure, imperfect, but good. In other words, I think the intelligence was correct in general, and that you always will find out precisely what it was once you get on the ground and have a chance to talk to people and explore it, and I think that will happen."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Press Briefing
6/18/2003

"I have reason, every reason, to believe that the intelligence that we were operating off was correct and that we will, in fact, find weapons or evidence of weapons, programs, that are conclusive. But that's just a matter of time...It's now less than eight weeks since the end of major combat in Iraq and I believe that patience will prove to be a virtue."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Pentagon media briefing
6/24/2003

MS. BLOCK: There were no toxins found in those trailers. SECRETARY POWELL: Which could mean one of several things: one, they hadn't been used yet to develop toxins; or, secondly, they had been sterilized so thoroughly that there is no residual left. It may well be that they hadn't been used yet.

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
All Things Considered, Interview
6/27/2003

"That was the concern we had with Saddam Hussein. Not only did he have weapons -- and we'll uncover not only his weapons but all of his weapons programs -- he never lost the intent to have these kinds of weapons."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
All Things Considered, Interview
6/27/2003

"I think the burden is on those people who think he didn't have weapons of mass destruction to tell the world where they are."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
7/9/2003
 
The articles just keep getting better..

Carter and Gore to ask Clinton to step down

At this point, I think that would be the nail in Obama's GE run. If Hillary were to drop, it has to be her decision. She should not be forced into it by the party. Just think how you would feel if the DNC elders did that to Obama. Talk about disenfranchising voters.
 
At this point, I think that would be the nail in Obama's GE run. If Hillary were to drop, it has to be her decision. She should not be forced into it by the party. Just think how you would feel if the DNC elders did that to Obama. Talk about disenfranchising voters.

That's a really great and fair point actually. :thumbsup2 I didn't look at it that way. As much as I would love to see her out of the race, I do think it should be her decision until Obama reaches the 2,025 needed to nominate.
 
[QUOTE=NewJersey;24443377]I'm not sure if they are having a debate...I heard it was going to be before NC but after PA?


I thought I saw an ad on CNN the other day for the upcoming Philadelphia debate, but I was half paying attention, so I could be wrong or it could be just something else and I didn';t catch it. But whatever it was I thought it was going to be just before PA.
 

At this point, I think that would be the nail in Obama's GE run. If Hillary were to drop, it has to be her decision. She should not be forced into it by the party. Just think how you would feel if the DNC elders did that to Obama. Talk about disenfranchising voters.
I completely see your point, but I'm more scared of the damage she's causing to the party.

Granted, the 30%-ish of Hillary voters that would switch to McCain should Obama get the nomination frighten me even more.
 
At this point, I think that would be the nail in Obama's GE run. If Hillary were to drop, it has to be her decision. She should not be forced into it by the party. Just think how you would feel if the DNC elders did that to Obama. Talk about disenfranchising voters.

I agree that the decision to step down should be hers.

As to the most recent non-issue hoopla of entitled plutocrats calling someone entitled--I wish Obama would just let HRC and Bill, and subsequently John McBushCain, have it with double barrels. Call the Clintons on their ethics and Hillary on her relationship (or lack thereof) with the truth. Call McCain on his flip flopping of issues (you know those tax breaks he was against until he was for them;) ).
 
That's a really great and fair point actually. :thumbsup2 I didn't look at it that way. As much as I would love to see her out of the race, I do think it should be her decision until Obama reaches the 2,025 needed to nominate.

I agree, I just wish she would stop pouncing on every damn thing Obama says and trying to find some diabolical meaning in it. I realize she is desperate but could she even attempt to run a civil, clean campaign for once.:sad2: She needs to focus on Hillary for a change (and let Obama focus on himself).

Rev, you know I just gotta say that the more of your posts I read (on all the threads, not just his one), the more I think you should run for V.P. :rotfl: You totally seem to "get it" (all of it)-:thumbsup2 . There are quite a few of you here (New Jersey, Fits, etc.) that really are informed about all the goings on (good and bad) but, IMHO, REV you are the star of our show , despite all the trolling you supposedly like to do.;)

.I'm not "in the loop" like most of you are, I tend to lurk but will come out when I want to say something (or I';m bored.) but you truly are an inspiration to those of us who get dejected time and again from all the negativity.

NJ, you are a very close second..!! And Honu...I love the great articles you always seem to find for us. I HOPE the best man will win!! ;) Keep doing what you all do, us lurkers really do appreciate it! Keeps our spirits up when it gets rough!
 
I agree, I just wish she would stop pouncing on every damn thing Obama says and trying to find some diabolical meaning in it. I realize she is desperate but could she even attempt to run a civil, clean campaign for once.:sad2: She needs to focus on Hillary for a change (and let Obama focus on himself).

Rev, you know I just gotta say that the more of your posts I read (on all the threads, not just his one), the more I think you should run for V.P. :rotfl: You totally seem to "get it" (all of it)-:thumbsup2 . There are quite a few of you here (New Jersey, Fits, etc.) that really are informed about all the goings on (good and bad) but, IMHO, REV you are the star of our show , despite all the trolling you supposedly like to do.;)

.I'm not "in the loop" like most of you are, I tend to lurk but will come out when I want to say something (or I';m bored.) but you truly are an inspiration to those of us who get dejected time and again from all the negativity.

NJ, you are a very close second..!! And Honu...I love the great articles you always seem to find for us. I HOPE the best man will win!! ;) Keep doing what you all do, us lurkers really do appreciate it! Keeps our spirits up when it gets rough!

The Clintons parted ways with good ethics a long, long time ago. Civil and clean campaigning is not in their lexicon.
 
I completely see your point, but I'm more scared of the damage she's causing to the party.

Granted, the 30%-ish of Hillary voters that would switch to McCain should Obama get the nomination frighten me even more.

She is damaging the party, and she is damaging her own future. She would have come out of this smelling like a rose had she stepped back and endorsed Obama, but the longer she goes the worse her trustibility ratings have become. She looks desperate and... well, bitter.

I think once we have a one Dem vs. one Rep race, we'll see significantly different numbers. McCain will actually be under scrutiny then. I personally can't wait for that.
 
Let's be clear...nobody can "force" Hillary out of the race. What they can do is talk to her privately and let it be known that, should she choose to continue, they will have no choice but to come out strongly in favor of her opponent. That wouldn't be "forcing" her from the race, but it would certainly put the final nail in her coffin in terms of getting the SD's to overturn the will of the voters.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: After Super Tuesday and the string of victories Obama put together following that, Hillary had no chance of winning the nomination without tearing the party apart. The only way she could be the nominee was and continues to be having the SD's overturn the winner by every objective measure and hand it to her. That was never going to happen.

I'm a bit doubtful that the article has much truth to it, though I certainly hope it does. It's about time someone in the party showed enough leadership to step in to try to stop Hillary from continuing to damage the party's obvious nominee. As I said, they can't force her from the race. But what they can - and should - do is refuse to support her continuing ego trip at the expense of the Democratic Party.

(BTW...Pet peeve of mine, so bear with me a moment...It is NOT "disenfranchising" for either the states that were punished for breaking party rules nor for those that have yet to vote - including my own, I might add - for them to not have a say in who the party's nominee should be. Disenfranchisement would mean not giving them a vote in who the president will be, not the party nominee. If the party wished to do so - and many smaller parties do just this - they could simply name their nominee without asking anyone's opinion at all. The nomination process is nothing more than a way to poll all party members to find out who they would like to see the party nominate. The final decision is the party's to make, not the general public. Yes, both of the major parties in this country generally follow what the public wants, but that has not always been the case. Interestingly, a return to just that type of dictatorial decision by party insiders is exactly what Hillary Clinton is advocating! But even if they were to decide in her favor, it still wouldn't be "disenfranchisement". It'd be wrong but it wouldn't be that.)
 
Just saw this list on another board. I woulda posted it on the Liberal Thread, but I can't even find it at this point (hmmm...seems I read somewhere that, with conversation about the nomination process banned from the thread, it'd end up on page 9 somewhere with nobody posting...who was it that wrote that again? ;) ).

Anyway, you guys might want to file this away for the next time one of our conservative friends tries to claim that neither Bush nor anyone in his administration lied in the lead-up to Iraq:.......

But WVrevy, you do realize the explanation du jour from conservatives is that how we got in Iraq does not matter. We are there now and can't leave until we are successful. Of course, now, as well as then, success cannot be defined.
 
I agree, I just wish she would stop pouncing on every damn thing Obama says and trying to find some diabolical meaning in it. I realize she is desperate but could she even attempt to run a civil, clean campaign for once.:sad2: She needs to focus on Hillary for a change (and let Obama focus on himself).

Rev, you know I just gotta say that the more of your posts I read (on all the threads, not just his one), the more I think you should run for V.P. :rotfl: You totally seem to "get it" (all of it)-:thumbsup2 . There are quite a few of you here (New Jersey, Fits, etc.) that really are informed about all the goings on (good and bad) but, IMHO, REV you are the star of our show , despite all the trolling you supposedly like to do.;)

.I'm not "in the loop" like most of you are, I tend to lurk but will come out when I want to say something (or I';m bored.) but you truly are an inspiration to those of us who get dejected time and again from all the negativity.

NJ, you are a very close second..!! And Honu...I love the great articles you always seem to find for us. I HOPE the best man will win!! ;) Keep doing what you all do, us lurkers really do appreciate it! Keeps our spirits up when it gets rough!

Careful now, jme829, this could bring more high dudgeon and outrage and prove we are the misogynistic, rainbow-believing, out-of-touch, latte and white wine drinking lot we've been told on numerous occaisons we are.;)
 
IRev, you know I just gotta say that the more of your posts I read (on all the threads, not just his one), the more I think you should run for V.P. :rotfl: You totally seem to "get it" (all of it)-:thumbsup2 . There are quite a few of you here (New Jersey, Fits, etc.) that really are informed about all the goings on (good and bad) but, IMHO, REV you are the star of our show , despite all the trolling you supposedly like to do.;)

Thanks, but boy did you just make yourself unpopular with a bunch of people on that other thread. :lmao:

Overall, though, I think we've got a pretty knowledgable group that post on this particular thread. That's one of the reasons I get so irritated by the "kool aid" and "falling for pretty words" stuff. A lot of the folks on this thread follow politics pretty closely, so it bothers me when others try to classify our support of Obama as being somehow less informed than their support of Hillary or McCain. Just for the record, there are informed posters that support both of those candidates (though, I suspect the percentage runs higher in the group of Hillary supporters than in McCain's base), just as there are those that don't seem to have much grasp of the issues. The difference is, I think everyone here recognizes that fact, while I'm not sure we get quite the same credit from them.

Actually, if you ever watched the show "West Wing", I'd love to be in the kind of position Josh was in. I don't wanna be the guy that has to make the decision...I wanna be the guy that guy turns to for council. :teeth:

But WVrevy, you do realize the explanation du jour from conservatives is that how we got in Iraq does not matter. We are there now and can't leave until we are successful. Of course, now, as well as then, success cannot be defined.

Yeah, but we had quite a few of them saying "Bush never lied" just a couple days ago. With that list, at least we'd have had the pleasure of seeing them either disappear from the thread or try in vain to somehow spin the comments into having at least some grain of truth. That's always fun. :lmao:
 
latte and white wine drinking lot we've been told on numerous occaisons we are.;)

Yes, but we are aren't we??? I cannot deny the truth :lmao:

As for the Clinton's, neither one of them would know truth or ethics if it ran over them like a mack truck... as for damaging the party, she doesn't care if she does or if she doesn't, because she is the only Democrat that can win the General....

If she's my choice, I'll have to defer it thanks so much... There's not much different between McLiar and McBush, according to Bill, Hill's losing her faculties at the age of 60 & there's not much difference between 60 & 72 if that's true....

As for those of us here on this thread, I think most of us are more politically in tune than 90% of the American's out there, and that's a rather scary thought. What's scarier is that people who are undecided right up to the minute they pick their ballot up get to vote. They have no idea what they are voting for or they would have known in advance IMHO.... are you kidding me? This has been going on for more than a year and you don't know who you align your values with?

People from around the world want to know why it is we keep electing these officials, I'm not surprised given our lack of political interest....

Oh well, should be interesting popcorn::
 
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