Not taking teen on planned WDW trip as punishment to harsh?

[daystar]

Hi,
I had to edit my reply only because as i thought more and more about this situation and maybe at one time i might be in that situation i don't know what i would do....I see alot of great replies from alot of people...
My problem is that i can see both sides of not taking a child as a punishment but then again why exclude her from family time....I understand the whole thing about sticking your word...But i'm a softy, it wouldn't feel like a family vacation missing one of my children....This is a hard one i'm going to sit back and here from others on this one....Good Luck...

 

[sha_lyn]

I have to agree with skiwee1 on this. Take away other things but don't ground her from a family trip. It sounds as if she probably needs the down time. Maybe then you can get to the root of the problem. It sounds as if something is really going on with her. Maybe the trip is just what she needs to detox.

 

[MHS]

Completely agree with the recommendation for Love and Logic ("actions have consequences").

Here's a good story to make you stick to your guns: some good friends of ours have two boys. The husband caught his 7 year old shoplifting. The first time they made him return the item and apologize. The second time they saw him take an item and gave him an opportunity to own up. The boy took a pass on confessing. As a consequence, the parents cancelled his 8 year old birthday party. That was five years ago and the two boys STILL talk about it - and BTW, they have turned into great kids!

 

[3mickeys&me]

I truly believe that you should stick to your guns and not let her go on the trip with you. IMO she is old enough to know right from wrong and is she is smart enough to be in the gifted program she is smart enough to know what she is pulling in school is wrong.

Go to Disney and don't disappoint the rest of the family. She needs to take responsibility for her actions.

 

[newtowdw1]

As a high school teacher there is little more upsetting than hearing a parent complain about their child's behavior, promise consequences and then take their child on a vacation. Generally, I also get asked, "What will YOU (the teacher) do to improve this situation?"

An example, a boy who has done nothing (literally) all year so far. Mother said, "Do your work, or no Daytona 500 this year." Son did very little. Son went to the Daytona 500, missing 8 days of school. INSISTED that I put together a packet of work for him to do while he was away. I spent 45 minutes putting together the packet. Son did nothing. Since his return his attitude is awful. Now, instead of sitting quietly failing, he is insubordinate and does disrupts others. The worst thing that mother did was taking her son on this trip.

I imagine you're having a horrible time at home. If she can earn the trip back, I say go for it. However, do not be surprised if she blows off your offer. Many teens want to know if the parent is serious. There's an excellent chance that she will play games. I know that I do not have teenagers, but I have seen the consequences of not sticking tough many times.
Good luck

 

[Schmeck]

OK, so let her earn the trip back with perfect behavior at school. Then what's she going to get next time, a car? There should be no options for behavior - you behave at school, you don't take away from others' learning experiences.

You don't act out to get the attention of your teachers. It's a waste of the teachers' time, the students' time, the taxpayers' money, etc. I've told this to students at school. I tell it to my daughters. They are both straight A students, and could miss a month of school and still be ahead. But DD13 got a 2 in effort on her progress report ( a 1 is the best, a 4 the worst) and that's not good enough. Effort has to be a 1, all the time, for every student.

Don't whine to me about their 'self esteem' and the 'family vacation'. People create their own self esteem by achievement. It can be good grades, it can be proper behavior. WDW doesn't have to mean family vacation. Quality, meaningful, family time can be had at home, at dinner. You don't have to designate it for family vacations. Not every vacation has to be a family vacation!

I agree with the posters who have pointed out that rewarding someone after threatening to punish them is the completely wrong way to deal with this situation. Sure, find out what is really going on, why she has to misbehave and blame others, but be firm. Her high school teachers will thank you, and your daughter will thank you someday too.

 

[Kimickey]

I don't think the punishment is too harsh. I'm in the military and all for tough love. Like someone said earlier, going to Disney is a privilege not a right especially at the age of 13. If her behavior continues and she does not show improvement at school go on the trip. Going with out her may jolt her into thinking that "mommy was not playing this time". There has got to be consequences and if taking away Disney is the only way she will learn, then I say go for it! If DD can improve and prove to you that she is going to change for the better then I say, let her think she is not going and then at the last minute tell her she's going.

 

[lmhall2000]

on the last ones I've read I haven't mentioned one of the most obvious to me...

By not allowing her to go you are actually punishing the family...which is not fair. I know if one of my three children were not allowed to go, the rest of the family would miss her and be sad, then there would be all that guilt associated with sharing memories and feeling you shouldn't because she didn't make any. I think punishment should be a solo deal....she should be the one who makes amends or sacrifices.
I think more appropriately she should be made to make amends...she needs an overhaul...she feels free to show disrespect and ignore demands made on her...multiple of reasons...she wants some control on her life...maybe she wants to feel needed...maybe the stresses of divorce...it could be anything. I would be upset that she didn't mention detentions...here are some steps I would take...

1. Ask the school to inform you by phone (give them an easy access number, work cell, whatever) of ANY detentions.
2. Tell your daughter you will expect to be told of any such detentions in the future.
3. Find a teacher she does respect...have a meeting with that teacher and ask if they have any ideas for you...if she loves art...maybe she could be asked to volunteer her time at an art camp for cancer children...take her to the soup kitchens on the weekends and tell her she has to volunteer one hour for every detention she did not tell you about. Find a neighbor that needs their leaves raked...tell her to rake and bag until it's finished with no pay. I believe that busy hands are much more helpful than idle ones...but make her punishment have an immediate impact on her...grounding is fine but are they accomplishing anything? Helping others goes a long way in defining respect for others. It will take some organization and time from your part but I promise you it will be worth it.

However, on the family trip..I wouldn't give her any spending money or "perks"....she can go along and have fun and if she cops an attitude add to her community volunteer hours.

Good luck, the fact you're concerned goes a long way.
Tara

 

[MickeyGirl555]

You don't act out to get the attention of your teachers. It's a waste of the teachers' time, the students' time, the taxpayers' money, etc. I've told this to students at school. I tell it to my daughters. They are both straight A students, and could miss a month of school and still be ahead. But DD13 got a 2 in effort on her progress report ( a 1 is the best, a 4 the worst) and that's not good enough. Effort has to be a 1, all the time, for every student.

Sorry that everyones 13 year old isn't a saint like your children are. Listen to yourself a one 1 in effort all of the time, For the taxpayers?? The thing is what exactly does taking away a trip do. If anything it might just cause her to rebell more, and start to do things worse than talking in class. I also agree with the poster who says that taking away the trip from her is punishing the whole family. Honestley do you feel her not being there will not effect anyone? I certainly know my daughter not being there would cause a huge probelm with my entire family. This is a personl decision, however, I feel the stick to your guns argument to be flawed.

 

[bugsy]

I was a single mom for 13 years. I had my first child very, very young. When my DH and I divorced, he moved away from the area so he was not around to help deal with the 3 children we had. Child support payments were sporadic at best and when they were paid, not enough to cover the cost of 3 teenage children.

My children were not perfect, they got into a few scraps now and then. But they ALL knew that ultimately they were responsible for their own actions. I did the best job I could possibly do raising them by myself.

Your punishment is justifiable. You are doing the right thing. She needs to grow up and suffer the consequences. Going to WDW is a privelage and she needs to remember that.

Don't be so hard on yourself. She's a big girl and knows right from wrong. Don't let anyone make excuses for her.

Tough Love!!!

OMG! I was also a single parent for 13 years! #1 (NOT a DH, just H) left when our DS was 6 mths old. NEVER a dime in support, raised him on my own.
Stepping off my soapbox..DS had the support of me, as well as his devoted
DGF &DGM, and we all raised him the way I was raised! From me, working 12
hours a day, seemed to be by remote control, (Thank you Lord, for DGF &
DGM ) We raised him to be responsible for his actions, and accountable
and as a child, mostly he came through, sometimes it was a little dicey....
especially in his teen years! BUT, even though we had to make some tough choices, as you are pondering..He is now finishing his BS in microbiology, and is on to Dental School! YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!! And as happy news, I married DH when DS was 13...(Again, Thank you Lord! ) and he had at the time DS 17 and DS 12...if you wish to start a thread on "how to keep a happy marriage in spite of 3 DSS...I'm all ears! GOOD LUCK STAY STRONG YOU (& DD) WILL BE MUCH BETTER FOR IT!

 

[Mandabella]

Leaving her home isn't harsh. And I disagree that it's "punishing the family" to do so.

My parents did it to my brother when he was 16 (I was 11). His grades were pitiful, very defiant/rude attitude, he acted out at home/school, lying, and was a royal pain in the butt. He was very draining on the family at that time. So, they left him at my aunt's when we took our family trip to the beach. He got several warnings, and my parents finally went through with it and left him home.

And guess what? I didn't miss him on the trip. We had a nice family trip with just the 3 of us. It was nice to NOT have him there that time. And he got to bond with our aunt...

Of course, I'm not a parent and our situations aren't identical. You know your daughter best. Good luck!

 

[Marseeya]

You don't act out to get the attention of your teachers. It's a waste of the teachers' time, the students' time, the taxpayers' money, etc. I've told this to students at school. I tell it to my daughters. They are both straight A students, and could miss a month of school and still be ahead. But DD13 got a 2 in effort on her progress report ( a 1 is the best, a 4 the worst) and that's not good enough. Effort has to be a 1, all the time, for every student.

I truly hope you don't make your students with exceptionalities feel as if they're a waste of time. That's the saddest thing I've ever heard. Teaching is such a calling and if any teacher feels that way about the kids in their care, particularly the ones who don't fit the perfect mold, then maybe it's time to move on to another career.

I have a very dear friend (38 years old) who was extremely difficult during his teen years (ADHHHHHD, dyslexic, and brilliantly gifted) and he still remembers every single cruel thing said to him by his teachers. As long as he lives, those words will haunt him.

If any teacher thinks that what they do in a single school year has no impact on their students, for good or bad, they'd better think again.

 

[Schmeck]

"students with exceptionalities" - we're all exceptional on this planet, and we all have to deal with it. We're all gifted in one way or another, but we still have responsibilities. No one is more special than anyone else in my book. Actions have consequences. Feel free to baby and pamper your kids, they won't thank you for it when they are forced to deal with life after you are gone. I love my kids, and I care for the ones at school too. That's why I don't spoil and pamper them. I want them to be the best person they can be, caring about others, realizing that we are all on this hunk of rock together.

 

[brownhaired_girl]

I think we live in a society which has rules, written and unwritten. For our society to function it is important to follow these rules or there will be chaos. Your daughter obviously had been told more than once by her teachers that her behavior was not appropriate. For some reason either she considered herself above the rules or she decided that she was willing to live with the consequences ie: suspension. No doubt she had some kind of warning from the school that she would be suspended if her behavior continued. SHE MADE A CHOICE. Without a doubt you need to follow through and understand why she made this choice. I'm not sure if she had warning about taking away the Disney trip but if you protect her from the consequences of her actions how will she learn to become a productive member of our society?
Sometimes I think children are trying to find out where the boundries truly are and how far are they allowed to push the line. I think there is eventually a comfort in knowing that there is a line.
I have two daughters who are now 24 and 22. My oldest daughter is Down Syndrome, my Disney buddy and a true joy to be around. My other daughter was definately a little more challenging. When the girls were little and I felt as though their behavior was inappropriate they would be told that that behavior was "not socially acceptable" a phrase they came to understand well. They may not have liked the phrase but they definately understood the meaning.
My brother had 3 kids, each of them got caught shoplifting at one time or another and he had to go to pick them up at the police station. They were not wanting for things but did it for something to do. I made it very clear to my younger daughter that there was no way I would tolerate this behavior. She was told that if she ever got caught shoplifting I would put her picture in the paper and say " my name is ---------- and I'm a theif. " Harsh possibly....... but I always followed through on my threats and there was no reason to believe that I wouldn't on this one. Was this a good way to draw this line, I'm not sure. Was she a perfect child.... no. Was I a perfect mother .... no, but we always knew where we stood I was the parent and it was my responsability to establish boundries because I loved her. She is now 22 preparing for med school and we are best friends. It was tough being somewhat strict. Sometimes I said no before I thought about a request and had to backtrack. Sometimes my daughter was very angry with me and I would just tell her that it was OK because "I had big shoulders." Thier father, who they think can walk on water, was always supportive but never the bad guy.

 

[HenDuck]

This is a long thread, but I wanted to add my 2 cents.

Hugs to the OP. Parenting sucks sometimes!

My 2 cents:

1. Don't believe the counselor. You all need family counseling. (And this is not a judgment - we have gone ourselves). Discipline is necessary and the family needs to work together to make it successful. Get another counselor for the whole family (or at least for you, DD and DH). If you can get DD's father involved too, all the better. You all need to be taught different ways to act. Think of it as the most important education you can get.

2. Suck it up and follow through. It's a good learning lesson for all of you. Sometimes I go overboard when threatening DS, but I still follow through. It has taught me to be more reasonable and to think about what type of consequences are appropriate in certain circumstances. He has also learned that if mama says the toy goes on the shelf for a week, a week it is.

I have had to throw away perfectly good toys, just to be consistent. I now think before I make threats I don't want to follow through with.

3. (Ok, one cent too much). Making her stay home is NOT too harsh. Trust me, she may act like she doesn't care about the trip, but she will be SAD when she is left home and when you all come back with great memories that she was not a part of.

Hugs and Pixie dust to all us parents out there just trying to do our best!

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

I truly believe that you should stick to your guns and not let her go on the trip with you. IMO she is old enough to know right from wrong and is she is smart enough to be in the gifted program she is smart enough to know what she is pulling in school is wrong.

Go to Disney and don't disappoint the rest of the family. She needs to take responsibility for her actions.

Exactly!

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

on the last ones I've read I haven't mentioned one of the most obvious to me...

By not allowing her to go you are actually punishing the family...which is not fair. I know if one of my three children were not allowed to go, the rest of the family would miss her and be sad, then there would be all that guilt associated with sharing memories and feeling you shouldn't because she didn't make any. I think punishment should be a solo deal....she should be the one who makes amends or sacrifices.
I think more appropriately she should be made to make amends...she needs an overhaul...she feels free to show disrespect and ignore demands made on her...multiple of reasons...she wants some control on her life...maybe she wants to feel needed...maybe the stresses of divorce...it could be anything. I would be upset that she didn't mention detentions...here are some steps I would take...

1. Ask the school to inform you by phone (give them an easy access number, work cell, whatever) of ANY detentions.
2. Tell your daughter you will expect to be told of any such detentions in the future.
3. Find a teacher she does respect...have a meeting with that teacher and ask if they have any ideas for you...if she loves art...maybe she could be asked to volunteer her time at an art camp for cancer children...take her to the soup kitchens on the weekends and tell her she has to volunteer one hour for every detention she did not tell you about. Find a neighbor that needs their leaves raked...tell her to rake and bag until it's finished with no pay. I believe that busy hands are much more helpful than idle ones...but make her punishment have an immediate impact on her...grounding is fine but are they accomplishing anything? Helping others goes a long way in defining respect for others. It will take some organization and time from your part but I promise you it will be worth it.

However, on the family trip..I wouldn't give her any spending money or "perks"....she can go along and have fun and if she cops an attitude add to her community volunteer hours.

Good luck, the fact you're concerned goes a long way.
Tara

Detentions from an honor student are completely unacceptible. She has no problem risking her own education for talking and passing notes/candy. Where is the logic in this? She obviously is not able to make her own appropriate decisions yet or she would see passing a note to her friend is not worth detention. Or the punishment is not getting through to her at school. She probably cares less about the detention because if she did she wouldn't continue the behavior. Taking away the trip will show her how serious this is.

The family will make it through the vacation without her just fine. If the little ones miss her, mom can explain the situation to them and use it as a valueable teaching tool from them. To back off this will be giving the 13yr old complete control a 13 yrold who is having massive behavioral problems in school BTW. There is absolutely no reason why this family should feel guilty. They were not the ones doing wrong. Unless there is a medical reason on why she cannot behave this punishment is not too strict. It would be more of a disservice to her future to backpeddle and let her go.

Stick to your guns.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

I truly hope you don't make your students with exceptionalities feel as if they're a waste of time. That's the saddest thing I've ever heard. Teaching is such a calling and if any teacher feels that way about the kids in their care, particularly the ones who don't fit the perfect mold, then maybe it's time to move on to another career.

I have a very dear friend (38 years old) who was extremely difficult during his teen years (ADHHHHHD, dyslexic, and brilliantly gifted) and he still remembers every single cruel thing said to him by his teachers. As long as he lives, those words will haunt him.

If any teacher thinks that what they do in a single school year has no impact on their students, for good or bad, they'd better think again.

Ok coming from a mom with a son who has many years of issues to come (he had a stroke in utero resulting in delays in speech and has epilepsy) How dare you compare you friends son to a child without issues who is acting out against the school and her parents! This was her choice. A choice she made as an honor student who obviously understands right and wrong. As the OP stated there is nothing medically wrong with her daughter and the teacher who posted that response was describing "typically developing" students not ones with ADHD or any other learning/behavioral issue.
Students who do not behave in class and distrupt learning for others should have consequences and if they are not followed through with at home then it definitely is a waste of tax payers money and the resources at school. Plus it is affecting every other child in that class.
Why should time be wasted on a kid without any "issues" who just wants to be defiant, who gets no punishment or rules at home? (not saying the OP is doing this).
It is highly offensive when people use a child's learning disability to make a point on something totally unrelated like this. What is everyone supposed to agree with you out of pity for your friends child? What were you possibly trying to illicit with bringing that up?
Children with learning disabilities cannot help their behavior this child (from what the mother said) can. So why would you even think that these kids are similar and say the teacher should "move on to another career" is beyond me.

 

[wide awake]

Thank-you 3DisneyNuts,
Sorry Marseeya...when your friend was going to school teachers weren't expected to deal with these issues...they didn't even KNOW about them, much less have training in them...and as 3DisneyNuts said, how does your friend's situation have any relevance here ? I've read all the posts, the OP's child sounds perfectly healthy and neurologically sound...what ever happened to the ideas that kids misbehave ? Sorry, they do, and sometimes not for a good reason. When my cousin had children she suddenly had a rosy view of children..."children don't lie, children don't misbehave, etc''...I think she forgot that as a child she was the biggest liar and brat in the world..and I was there to see it...and guess what, neither of her kids knows how to be socially acceptable.

 

[HappyLawyer]

I agree 100%.

this was a post that said, take them all or take none and find a different punishment-wrong

Why should the children that behave be punished by not going? That does not make any sense, if you have one child that steals while the other 2 are at home, are you going to punish all three?