Not taking teen on planned WDW trip as punishment to harsh?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I agree with the majority here: If you said it, you must follow through on it. If not, she will never believe you again when you say, "Your punishment is ___." If it helps, my parents once said the same thing to us; several kids in my large family were lagging behind in the grade department, and they took only 2 of us to Disney. It DID make an impression on the 3 who stayed behind, and they did improve their grades, though it was too late for the trip.

How does her dad feel about having her that week? In essence, you're saying to him, "Here, I dealt her this punishment -- now you enforce it." Much depends upon how he will handle it. If he will make sure she's staying home every evening, etc., then she will be miserable knowing that the rest of you are riding coasters and having fun. On the other hand, I've heard of all too many divorced parents who try to be the "good parent"; if he takes her out to dinner a couple times, buys her new skates, and treats her and her friends to an afternoon at the movies, then her "punishment" will have meant nothing. If she's a typical teen who clings to her friends above all things family, it might even be a reward.

I have one suggestion -- something that has worked for me when I used to teach this age group. In his book Taming the Homework Hassel, John Rosemond makes a suggestion for a teacher-parent check-off sheet designed to keep kids in line. Though homework isn't your child's specific problem, I suggest that you read the book; the concepts easily generalize to behavior problems. He suggests that the teacher and parent TOGETHER make up a list of things that the child is expected to do each day. They make a grid with a check-off spot for each behavior for each day of the week. The student is given a stack of papers, and the student is responsible for presenting the paper to the teacher within the last five minutes of class each day. The teacher takes 30 seconds to check off and sign "yes" or "no" to each behavior (perhaps it might be 1. brought all materials to class, 2. refrained from inappropriate communication with others, 3. treated teacher and classmates respectfully -- whatever seems appropriate for YOUR DAUGHTER -- this sheet has to be made individually for every student.) There is not a spot for "maybe" -- either she did these things for the entire 55 minute class period, or she did not. No checks for Tuesday's class? It's the same as a "no". Each day (or each Friday, if you want to do it week-by-week instead of day-by-day), the student receives either reward or punishment at home based upon what happend in school that day (TV and phone use, access to the internet, or permission to go out on the weekend, for example, can be based upon the number of checks received at school that week).

Benefits: The parent receives day-by-day feedback from the teacher, the teacher is not burdened by lengthy communication requirements, and the responsibility falls where it should: upon the shoulders of the student. When I've worked with parents who enforced the rewards/punishments at home, this method has worked amazingly well for me.

Even once you get the behavior in check, I think you should still look into the cause. She herself may not really know why she's acting this way. Divorce has a very long-lasting effect on kids, especially girls (I'd know -- I was a child of divorce, and I know how it affected the 5 of us), but there may be more as well.

Three last comments:

You're not only doing this for your oldest DD; you're doing it for the two younger ones. If you allow one child to continue in this behavior, what do you think the others will be like in a few years? They could easily follow her example -- or worse.

Keep a strong eye out for drugs and alcohol; children who are rebellious in some ways are often rebellious in this way as well. Even good kids are drawn into these things, and you can never say, "My child couldn't be doing it because ____." Be watchful and let her know where you stand on these issues.

Finally, this age seems to be the worst for girls. They have such attitudes, they're unappreciative . . . but they outgrow it. 13-14 is all rolling eyes and exasperation with their stupid parents, but 15 is considerably more mature, and 16 is downright nice. 17 and 18s, though they still have their bad moments, are young adults. The point: there's hope in sight, but stick to your guns; it will be a while before you see the light at the end of the tunnel.
 
i think ur daughter might have by polar sp sry anyway those r great signs blamin evry thing on other people my dad has it i have signs (im 13) but not offically digunoised sp when my mom started to see more signs she took me to a scholgist sp and put me in a private school im doing great i dont think thats a harsh punishment but maybe u could sit her down and say hey if u get 0 dts and on ur report card u get all a,b,c will redeem your trip or something similar
 
I agree with the other posters that you need to stick to the punishment. Empty threats will only cause more problems. I also had weekly reports sent home with my DD weekly when she was having problems in school. Just having the responsibility of getting the report signed by each teacher and bringing it home each Friday played a big part in resolving the situation. It made it clear that this wasn't a one time thing and then it's forgotten til next time. It was an ongoing thing. She had to establish new school habits. After a period of time the teachers and I felt she was ready to try to do without the constant monitoring and things went very well from there. I also agree with the other posters that you should seek counseling for your DD. Although the counselor you spoke with didn't seem to think it was necessary, your post gives me a sense that your gut is telling you something different. Listen to your motherly instincts and seek help elsewhere. Better safe than sorry!
 
The part that would worry me the most is always blaming other people. I would want some good counseling on dealing with that.
As for the spoiling Grands, cut down the contact or return their gifts to them. Don't allow them to undercut parental authority.
Good luck, my turn is coming.
 

First, here's a HUG :grouphug: ...

Secondly, I emphatically urge you to get counseling and have your daughter evaluated to make sure that there are no underlying behavioral disorders (If you haven't already... please don't think that I'm trying to presume!).

I know that this type of thing affects the whole family and can make your home life frustrating and miserable.

I agree that your daughter should be punished, but barring her from a family vacation will only breed more anger and resentment -- which in the long run, will only make your home life even more miserable. Yes, you should follow-through on your threats; but was that a reasonable threat, or did you act in anger?

Is it possible to sit down with her and offer her a fresh start? Family vacations can be very cathartic.

It sounds like you must be overwhelmed with your daughter's behaviors, being pregnant, working full-time and having weekend home-parties.
Is it possible that she feels neglected? Not that you ARE, but that it could be her perception? Your time must be spread very thin with your numerous responsibilities.

If I were you, I would seriously consider cutting back/ cutting out the home-parties and give yourself a break. It's hard to juggle 3.5 children and work full-time, much less have a second job.

I would also make it my business to be in touch with each of her teachers DAILY. It can be something as simple as a daily note sheet that each teacher signs, indicating the type of day that she's had. It would only take a moment for them (we've had to do this before ourselves) and it would reinforce the point that you are communicating with her teachers. You may also want to consider setting up a parent/teacher/student conference and confront her on the on-going problems, while you and the teachers make it clear to her that you will be working with them as a team. New boundaries apparently need to be set with her, regardless. If she doesn't perform at school, she simply has no privileges at home. Make sure that her grandparents and father are on the same page as well. Each week that she comes home with satisfactory teacher reports for five consecutive days, she will receive X special privilege, time with Mom, etc...

The fact that your daughter refuses to take blame for anything could be indicative of something as simple as teen rebellion, but it could also indicate such things as an underlying borderline personality disorder or Oppositional Defiance Disorder.

But before you do anything or make any decisions, have her evaluated and get your family in counseling! If someone has told you that you don't need it, do what you think is best and continue to pursue the subject! I can't tell you how many times specialists (my DS is Autistic) have told me something that my gut has disagreed with, that turned out with me being right! No one fights for your kids like you do!

What is a real shame is that so many people think that a kid with "bad" behavior is just "bad", but the child may really have an underlying physical problem that causes it. Most children aren't genuinely bad unless there is a very good reason for it. How is her home life at her Dad's?

Best of luck to you... I hope that you can find some family peace soon...

And please know that my post is in no way judgmental, it's simply what I might try and do...

Hang in there!

Sheila
 
I suppose I shall add in my 2 cents on this. I do say that you should stick to any punishment you make as long as it is reasonable, not made out of anger, etc. As far as not taking your DD along with you. I do think that is quite harsh, but you said it so I think you ought to give her a chance to earn it back. If she really wants to go then she should be given the chance.

Why give her a chance? Well, in a way it kind of helps to subside the contradictory sides of sticking with the punishment and the emotional strain it could cause.

First off, having younger siblings really does put a strain on your child. I was also 8 when my mom had my brother and was a bit younger when my step father became a part of the family. When I was younger I know my mom and I had to go to a counselor and I saw the school counselor several times. Also, with a new sibling, a mom that worked full time, and being not getting home until almost bedtime...well I really needed attention and the more emotional nurturing, but since that didn't happen to often with my moms time being taken in so many directions just to support our family...behavior issues resulted.

It is great that you are trying to spend time with your daughter, but I also think that just going into her room and talking to her about whatever interests her or just saying that you want to get to know her more or allowing her to fully confide in you etc. would help a lot. I had an awful relationship with my mother that caused me to act out in school to get attention from other adults that I couldn't get at home because I blocked it out and she wasn't around much either. After awhile my mom made a choice to talk to me and stuff and now my relationship with her has been great for the past three years.

Lastly, the prospect of siblings getting to go, coming back and talking about their wonderful trip is something that will probably detach your DD even more. Punishment is good, follow through is good, but is it worth it to risk harmony within the family. After an experience kids naturally want to talk about it a lot so hearing about the great time had without her...well that may just send the anger off and may cause resistance and attention seeking behaviors elsewhere because of the disclusion from the family activity.

By allowing her a chance to improve and discussing the decisions and consequences she can make when it comes to earning back the trip...this will allow her to know that you would like to go as a family, she is not being discluded, and is allowing her time to adjust to behaving herself. If she does not follow through on this, no trip because she did not put in the effort of trying harder.

I think this family time in a place that does not make a teenager feel totally out of place and feel the need to act cool is definitely something you need. You simply will have the time to spend with the family without the worry of something career associated coming up.

That's my 2 cents. As a note, I may be a teen, but I am definitely not rooting for the person who is close to my age. These are the experiences I have been through and there is nothing more heartbreaking then being left behind. I used to pride myself on being tough and never crying or being upset about anything, but when I was left behind the tears would not stop flowing and I was really sensitive about that kind of thing. Yet another thing to understand...maybe it could be an excuse...but it is really hard for teens to control their emotions. They feel the need to talk and just can't contain themselves, the snide remark just shoots out, etc. It takes time, but I have matured and no longer do these things and your DD will too in time.

If your DD is making A's but has bad behavior then I think there is more eating at her than the eye can see. It may seem outwardly like resistance and simply not caring, etc. Teachers are intelligent and know a lot, but they do not know everything, not to mention...teens don't like to share their emotions or what is eating at them so easily. For some reason, to us, PRIDE is everything.

SOrry this is so long, but this comes from my personal experience in a very similar situation. I hope no one takes offense or feels like I am being to critical...sorry if I am, but again...this is my personal experience and at the moment I am listing off all of the things I am guilty of and I am not trying to criticize any other person.
 
I am a marriage and family therapist that works with teens and their families. A lot of the advice that you have gotten already is sound (follow through with consequences, improved communication w/the school, etc). A couple of other points for you.

First, as much as we sometimes think that it is a blessing that a child is gifted, it can be difficult as well, for both the child and the parent. You would be amazed how many youth come through my office who have been classified as gifted, and they have severe behavior problems. As much as the intelligence is beneficial for a child's academics, it can be problematic when it it used to test rules and boundaries. You don't want to get rid of the "creative explanations" and testing behaviors altogether; but these skills do need to be channeled into positive ways (problem solving, assisting other youth with tutoring, troubleshooting problems that arise with tasks, etc.). Creativity can be beneficial when used to problem solve when problems arise on a job; the challenge is to get youth to not use their giftedness to hurt themselves and/or others.

Second, youth who are gifted academically often lag behind with social skills. Although they may be able to recite the pythagorean theory at age 8, they cannot figure out how to relate to their peers in their everyday tasks. Why? Because they relate to people through their intelligence level, not their social skills. Self-esteem is equated with academic achievement in gifted youth, not in social interaction or cooperation with their parents or peers. Some work on basic social interaction skills may be beneficial.

Last, but certainly not least, it is imperative that you, your child's father, and the school all get on the same page when it comes to the behavior problems. Your child doesn't see her behavior to be a problem right now, whether that's fair or not. How do you intervene? You make it become a problem. You use daily notes for updates on her school behavior, and you consequate misbehavior or reinforce good behavior daily based on whether she brings a good or bad note home. Anticipate that she will "forget" the note, or say "the teacher didn't fill it out". Make it HER responsibility to take the daily note to the teacher at the end of classes so the teacher can fill it out. If she doesn't bring the note home, forgets it, or loses it; no privileges for the day (no TV, phone, visits to/from friends, whatever she likes the most). And if she says "I don't care" when you discipline her, just follow through with the consequence. This probably means that she DOES care; she is just saying "I don't care" to manipuate you to back down from your consequences. If you back down from your consequences because she makes you think that they aren't working, she wins; she gets what she wants (no discipline for misbehavior).

In a nutshell, family therapy would probably be beneficial to you and your child. Getting together you, your child, and her father can start to lay the groundwork for improvement. Uniting you, the father and the school in dealing with the behavior will go along way to stopping her acting out. And the final question that I always ask when a situation seems "stuck"; what is your child getting out of her acting out? Is it she's getting to do her own thing; is she deflecting blame from her misbehavior onto others; is she calling attention to the fact that she may have some unresolved issues to you and the father's separation; may she be depressed and/or anxious and she's trying to get some help for this; or could she have poor self-esteem? It could be any or all of these things, or even other things. This is where having a neutral, supportive therapist's intervention could really help. I wouldn't be in my profession if I didn't think that therapy could help. I've seen similar situations improve dramatically over the years. Not by anything that I or other therapists do, but by the courageous efforts of families to address challenges head-on and bring about their own healing.

Best of luck with your child. I hope that things go well with you in the future
 
Stick to your guns.
If you back down then she wins.
Believe me I know where you're coming from.
My daughter @ around 16 or 17 got so bad.
I sent her to live with her Dad.
She hated me for the longest time.
They all get over it.
She is now 33 & we are the best of friends.
My teenage daughter from hell is now a very level headed career women.
We have plans @ WDW her 1/2 brother & me.
Can't wait.
 
I agree with what everyone else has said. Don't back down.
I was a BAD teenager many many years ago. So my poor kids can't get away with much. They do try though. :teeth:
Mt DS (13 going on 14) has been having "issues" for awhile, I have open communication with his teachers. We e mail back and forth. If one of them has a problem well I know about it before he gets home. I slacked off for a while and boy did he get in a mess. Well, 30 days of being without a phone, gameboy,PS2,tv, and only an hour on line no chat no IM's It was hard but I knew I had to stick with it. The grades are coming back but wow I said it so I had to do it.
Just remember you will get through it. It will be tough but think about what would happen if you didn't? It isn't a pretty picture
Yes, I drive a school bus for the same district that my children attend but I still am a parent kept for the most part in the dark by my children
Hey, someone has to make out of puberty :rotfl:
 
i agree with the other diser's this is not to harsh of a punishment, she should not be rewarded for bad behavior.

i would have been in some much trouble had i ever done that, i'd still be locked in my room years later. teenagers really test at this age & want to see how far they can push you, if you cave now, she'll be walking all over you through these hard teenage years. its better to put your foot down & mean it. best of luck with this, it boils down to a personal decision only you & your family can make. but in my opinion needs to be reprimanded, no wdw.

"no soup for you" - seinfield
 
Donalds#1Fan said:
...... the prospect of siblings getting to go, coming back and talking about their wonderful trip is something that will probably detach your DD even more.

......Punishment is good, follow through is good, but is it worth it to risk harmony within the family?

....... I think this family time in a place that does not make a teenager feel totally out of place and feel the need to act cool is definitely something you need. You simply will have the time to spend with the family without the worry of something career associated coming up.

....... These are the experiences I have been through and there is nothing more heartbreaking then being left behind.

...... For some reason, to us, PRIDE is everything..

Wow!! What a wonderful post. You are very eloquent and you make some great points which I agree with. You're a teenager? I'm so impressed (not that there's anything *wrong* with being a teenager? lol)... you have a level of maturity way beyond your years! :)


Tiff,
I am so sorry you're going through this crisis. Please don't beat yourself up. You clearly love your daughter and you want the best for her. Parenting is so tough sometimes, it can be overwhelming (and I haven't even reached the teen stage yet! My eldest is almost 11). I don't think *you* were harsh to *say* it and I have been there.... anger and despair (and fear of the situation) can sometimes make us say things we're not entirely sure about, so don't torture yourself! I completely agree with Donalds#1Fan's post. Just because the threat is made doesn't mean you can't tweak it a bit and give her the chance to "earn" the trip back, almost as if the trip is from scratch. A new deal on the table. The "you *are* going to Disney" deal is GONE. The "you are going to Disney *if* you earn it by doing what I say, when I say it" is IN. First of course you need to find out exactly how much she wants to go to WDW... obviously if she isn't too bothered about it, she's not going to work hard at getting there! But if she really wants to go, I could see this as a great opportunity for her to work her way up to that treat. You're already a very hands on parent by the sounds of it, so you don't need me telling you how to do your job!! But I was just going to say, keeping close track of her behaviour between now and then (right down to the littlest of things) and rewarding the good behaviour with 'credits' towards her trip might really boost her self esteem and provide that incentive she needs. I know there is a fine line between a teenager feeling good and feeling patronised so you need to thread that line carefully.

I certainly don't think letting her earn her trip back will hurt. I do think you have more to lose than gain by not letting her go.... that feeling of being left behind, the detachment from the rest of her family, the exclusion factor later when her siblings are discussing the trip and the possible growth of a "victim" mentality within her etc. etc. All very negative and potentially damaging issues.

Also I would add (again to repeat what Donalds#1Fan said) WDW is a different environment, removed from her usual day to day life and you usual life. It could be a wonderful opportunity to bond all over again, without outside pressures, and really have some quality time and get to know the girl deep down, rather than the troublemaker, which is probably the only 'side' she's letting you see right now.

Lastly, I do think being suspended is very serious business so I am not trying to trivialise it in any way. Also I know that there's more to this crisis than whether or not she gets to go to WDW. I suspect it's going to be a tough road ahead. Stay on top of her. Try to break down that defiant wall and see what's *really* going on in her head.

Good luck to you.

:grouphug:
 
Kasmir,
Your post was terrific. Very well said.

Kasmir said:
I can't tell you how many times specialists (my DS is Autistic) have told me something that my gut has disagreed with, that turned out with me being right! No one fights for your kids like you do!

Hear hear!! I've been there too with my DS. I reached levels of frustration with "specialists" which just left me feeling overwhelmed but we had to keep fighting and pushing, often against their advice and often feeling very scared and alone (it's tough disagreeing with so-called "experts"). But as you say nobody fights for your kids like you do, that is so so true. Well said!
 
:grouphug: when I was a teen, when you were grounded that was IT..no negotiating, no grace period for preplanned vacations...I have had MANY conversations with other parents (we are in our late 40's, kids 23/24/28. we became "adults" in the late '70's) and the
thing we most agree on...as a generation, we have been more affluent, with more expendable income, than any generation before us. we have given (AS every generation before us) more to our children than we had, which perpetuates the "American Dream". Here is, however, the problem,, which we learned by, the hard way of course I might add..the difference between this generation, and ours and the ones before ours is this--we, our parents, our grandparents, etc. were expected to live by societies rules, and adapt ourselves to these rules, being totally accountable and responsible for our choices/action. We have given our children, as our parents did, every luxury we could afford--HOWEVER-- we have not put the responsiblity and accountability clause in these "rewards" They have instead, as a generation, become "entitlements", subject to I might mention, lawsuits if society does not come through as expected. I agree with every post... the loss of a vacation for your teen will be a life lesson in the long run that just might turn things around! ps, the younger and older of our kids are his, middle one is mine, step parents have a whole different set of issues...hang in there, and GOD BLESS--sorry to ramble... :grouphug:
 
I agree with Bugsy. I get so tired of hearing that kids can't help their behaviors, there must be some problem...what it comes down to is that they're acting like a brat and getting away with it. Stick to your guns.
 
I agree with the posts here, especially that of George T. Stick to your guns, but figure out what you are going to do when you get back from your trip. Make sure you have a plan of action to deal with the problems. I like the daily note idea. Obviously the punishments at school aren't working, so you are going to have to do more at home--take away phone, computer, going out with friends. You might also offer some rewards for turning her behavior around, either a trip somewhere or buying her something she really wants. From my years of teaching high school, I would see this sort of behavior in kids who were hanging around with the wrong crowd. Perhaps you could get her involved in some activity where she would make some new friends.
 
Wow! This sounds exactly like my best friend's DD. She has just turned 15. My friend told her last January when we were all going to WDW that if her grades and behavior did not improve she wasn't going. Long story short, she did go even though the problems continued and her behavior in Florida was not good. We are all supposed to go again in Februrary 2006 and she will probably be going again. She takes no responsbility for any of her actions and always blames someone else. We have gone looking for her several times at night when she didn't come home. She ended up at the police station once for breaking curfew. Her grades in school are not very good and the list goes on and on. If my kids pulled the stunts that she does they would have to ask my permission to breathe. Personally, I think my BF should tell her she can't go unless certain conditions are met; however, that means absolutely nothing if she is not prepared to follow through. I think her DD is well aware that these are empty threats and she will get what she wants (a trip to WDW) despite her ongoing bad behavior. I wish my BF had your backbone because otherwise the bad behavior continues and the "consequences" are only empty threats. Good luck with your situation. I know it's not easy but I don't think you're being too harsh.
 
Before the wonderful world of law i taught special ed. ed/bd emotional and behavior disturbed, have you check with the district to see what type of schools they offer with behavior assistance. There are many students that act act and when their learning environment changes to a more structured one with more consequences at school they change, then there are other schools that deal with behavior, your school does not sound like it is very good with the parent communication, i mean they should make better attempts at contacting you, and meetings with you as well. While teaching i found many scools do not even want to deal or address behavior they just like to suspend which is a shame it does not benefit the child. This is not to offer any excuses for bad beavior, as a parent i completely agree with you, i know it is probably hard and breaks your heart but stay strong and let your dtr know that you are serious, it may help her realize there are consequences for her actions.

Good luck
 
Bugsy -- I agree with every word, and I'll throw in one more thing: Your generation tended to have 1-2 kids per family instead of the 3-4 kids per family that were more common just a few years before. That made every kid "more precious" in the family's eyes -- don't take that to mean that previous generations didn't treasure their children -- take it as I mean it. If families have only 1-2 children, there's pressure to make each one PERFECT -- even if they aren't. And parents picked up the attitude that an "average" child was a negative reflection on them as parents. So we as a society began to make excuses: he's gifted but lazy, he has great potential but doesn't complete things . . . you've heard these before, and it's no favor to our children.
 
I agree that it is necessary to follow through on punishments (a bone of contention with me and my DH but that's another story). I also agree that punishments should not be doled out in anger (something I've been guilty of myself). Parents make mistakes as well. I am divorced as well, with a tweenager whose dad lives 650 miles away. If I were to leave my DD behind with her dad, it would NOT be a punishment. He rarely sees her and never wants to be the "bad" parent, so she can do no wrong with him. If it's similar in your situation, leaving her behind might not be punishment at all. Also, I agree in part that she may be crying out for attention. I remember being that age. My DD is my twin in many ways and it has really helped me to relate to her. My boys (esp. my high needs 6yo) acts out when he is needing attention. I have found with all of them that some extra TLC does wonders. Also catching them being good.

Anyway, I think that giving her the opportunity to earn the vacation back is a great idea. I would take her to dinner or just to the park - wherever you can be alone. Have it be a fun outing. Do something that she enjoys. DO NOT mention her behavior. Just let it be all about you and her. I bet that after an initial weird period where she is trying to figure it out, you will be pleasantly surprised. At the end of the evening, perhaps in the car on the way home, I would say what a great time I had. Then I would tell her that I wanted to talk about her behavior. Lay down expectations. Give her a chance to talk. Ask HER what she thinks her consequences should be. Tell her that you are prepared to leave her home on this trip, but that you want to give her an opportunity to change. If you just say, "You're staying home" that really doesn't give her any reason to change, KWIM? But don't attack or back her into a corner. I know I sound overly accomodating, but there is a reason she is acting this way, whether it be a cry for attention or something else. I don't buy the "she's being a brat" story some accept. There is a reason. If you just blame it on bratty behavior without trying to get to the bottom of it, you aren't trying to fix it or giving her an opportunity/reason to fix it. BAD downward spiral. (not saying you ARE doing that!)

Anyway, that's just my two cents. I hope it made sense, as my 2 yo has been playing trucks beside me - a bit distracting LOL
 
I feel that she should have the chance to earn back the trip. I mean she wasn’t even giving a warning that this is what would happen, right. You also admit that you have been making excuses for her so I’m just guessing that she was not punished to much for her previous bad behavior. If this is the instance than I feel this the punishment is too harsh. However, it she has been punished before and was told that this is what would happen then I do not feel that it is too harsh.

Btw I feel very sorry for what you are going through
 
Status
Not open for further replies.












Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE






DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter DIS Bluesky

Back
Top Bottom