Not taking teen on planned WDW trip as punishment to harsh?

[coinkc]

I personally do not think you were too harsh at all. I do have a few questions/comments, though.

1) Will you be able to enjoy the trip with your other kids if your daughter is not there? you don't want her punishment becoming a family consequence because you are constantly thinking about whether you did the right thing by leaving her home. Also, it wouldn't be fair to your younger kids if you weren't able to enjoy yourself ( i.e. in a good mood).

2) It is important that her dad understand why she is staying with him and not going to WDW. It would totally defeat the purpose if he takes her on a one-on-one vacation or does lots of special things while you are gone, thus giving her even more attention. I don't know what kind of relationship you have with her father but hopefully you will be able to talk about the reasons why she isn't getting to go on the trip and he will be able to work with you to carry out the punsihment.

3) Would she be missing school while you were at WDW? If so, then I definately think that the punishment is justified as she is missing school by being suspended and therefore shouldn't miss any more days for vacation.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[Drizzo67]

As I stated before, Just follow through. That is so important. I have the same problem with my DD. I learned that when I gave her a consequence I had to follow through. An example: Shopping in the mall she moaned and whined that she wanted everything, each time getting louder. I told her one (and only once) that if she kept it up we would leave. Well it stopped (for about a minute) and once is started again I put all the clothes down that I was holding, put on my jacket, took her by the hand and left. She cried the whole way out of the mall (somewhat embarassing), the whole way home and at home until her father got home and tried to make me look like a real meanie. Thank g-d my DH backs me up when it comes to her. It happened one more time at the mall and twice at the grocery store (left a whole cart full of food there too.) but in the last 6 trips to either the mall or the grocery store it hasn't happened. Old habits die hard. It will take a while to get her to see the action/reaction effect but it will work. GOOD LUCK.

 

[Mom to Jordan]

Well, while I do agree that sticking to what you say is important, I know that sometimes I make mistakes. I will be really mad at DS and say something like no playstation for a week, when he really deserved only a day or a week with out it. When this happens I appoligize and issue a more reasonable punishment. Everything that your DD is doing looks like attention getting stuff. All very disrespectful but none really serious or dangerous. No smoking, drugs, sex etc. With the AG mention it appears she is a very bright child. There has been at some point a divorce she has gone through. I see some real concerns about leaving her behind. Are the sibblings her full sibblings, if not taking them and not her could really cause some major issues there. How is her real dad handing these issues? What will the week at his house be like for her? How does he feel about being the bad guy that has to keep her while the rest of the family goes to WDW?
These issue need immediate attention and a resolution to overcome but I agree that some time at WDW away from her friends might be a good thing. I sure don't have any answers but I thinkk there are more questions that need to be addressed.

Good luck!!!
Jordan (who will be 13 soon!) mom

 

[Marseeya]

Well, while I do agree that sticking to what you say is important, I know that sometimes I make mistakes. I will be really mad at DS and say something like no playstation for a week, when he really deserved only a day or a week with out it. When this happens I appoligize and issue a more reasonable punishment.

I agree. I think it's important to be consistent, but not totally inflexible. I've been known to overreact a time or two and I just explain it to my kids and we readjust the punishment.

 

[tiff211]

Well, while I do agree that sticking to what you say is important, I know that sometimes I make mistakes. I will be really mad at DS and say something like no playstation for a week, when he really deserved only a day or a week with out it. When this happens I appoligize and issue a more reasonable punishment. Everything that your DD is doing looks like attention getting stuff. All very disrespectful but none really serious or dangerous. No smoking, drugs, sex etc. With the AG mention it appears she is a very bright child. There has been at some point a divorce she has gone through. I see some real concerns about leaving her behind. Are the sibblings her full sibblings, if not taking them and not her could really cause some major issues there. How is her real dad handing these issues? What will the week at his house be like for her? How does he feel about being the bad guy that has to keep her while the rest of the family goes to WDW?
These issue need immediate attention and a resolution to overcome but I agree that some time at WDW away from her friends might be a good thing. I sure don't have any answers but I thinkk there are more questions that need to be addressed.

Good luck!!!
Jordan (who will be 13 soon!) mom

Goodness, you all raise some tough but good questions, the short version of the history is that she has been having excuses made for her by me, by her father by her grandparents all her life. I had her young, her father and I were never married, we had broken up before I knew I was pregnant. He has had the same girlfriend, (now his wife) every since she was born. She has two half sisters on his side and I have two other DD's. I got married when she was eight. She spends summers, every other Christmas and Feb or April vacation with him. We live in RI, he lives in NC.

Like I said I have always heard/made excuses for her behavior which is a big part of the problem. Some examples (I had her young, her father and I are not together, she misses seeing her father, she misses her other sisters, she doesn't get enough time with just me. I am too hard on her, I am not hard enough on her, etc.) When it comes down to it, I am convinced she is not acting out. She just loves to talk, loves for everyone to notice and pay attention to her, and does not think about what the consquences of her actions will be. On every single report card since 1st grade, she has comments about her behavior. I have done the counseling thing, down the parent teacher thing and all agree that she just does what she wants.

I try not to call her dad for every little thing, so that is one way she knows that I have had it when he gets "the call". I am sure she will enjoy being at her dads and playing with her sisters but she did tell me she would rather go to DIsney. I gave her a choice before planning the trip, since she was scheduled to spend the week with him.

 

[Limmer]

I think getting suspended is "really serious stuff". If there are no consequences for this kind of thing what do think is right around the corner? Alcohol, drugs and sex. Nip it in the bud now or it will only escalate.

 

[kjs1976]

Be consistant, but make the punishment fit the crime. Have you taken away phone and friend privledges if she is always getting in trouble for talking? Obviously she is doing it for attention, so have you spent quality time with her so she doesn't seek that attention negatively...I say this because I'm a middle school teacher and we just dealt with a boy who was seriously neglecting his homework because it meant real mom and dad, who are divorced, would have to get together to deal with him and therefore spend time dealing with him together...he was getting attention, even if it was the wrong kind. As for the school suspending her because of excessive detentions/talking etc...it would have to be pretty bad for them to do that because at our school the disciplinaries go home to the parents so they know when their kids get detention and a phone call is always made home to the parents if a suspension occurs.

I see kids like this everyday. Just continue to love her and talk to her and maybe a door will open!

 

[fanofpan]

Your dd sounds almost to the T like my ds, and I want you to know that at an early age we were lucky enough to have his teacher recommend he be tested for oppositional defiance disorder. The counselor we took him to was wonderful and referred quite often to a book on defiant children written by* Russell *Barkley. These kids often chose not to follow rules and almost always blame others. Before you rule out that there is not anything wrong with her, maybe you should see if you can find Defiant children : a clinician's manual for assessment and parent training by Russell Barkley at your library and see if there are any similarities.
If we do not stick to our punishment with our ds, his behavior gets worse, so I think you are doing the right thing in sticking with what you tell her. Good luck and Best wishes to you.

 

[Schmeck]

I work in a high school, and see kids behave like this all the time. What the kids don't think about, or care about, is the fact that the behavior disrupts the entire class. So, even though the child mentioned is on the honor roll, and not struggling in class, some other students who are struggling get short-changed by the disruption.

If it was my daughter, I'd leave her behind on vacation as well. I'd also have a few talks with her about her behavior, and how it affects other people, and what those people think of her. The faculty and staff will label her 'trouble' which will follow her to high school. Teachers will be reluctant to have her in extra activities.

Do her friends do well in school? Or is her behavior affecting their grades? Ask her how she would feel if they all got sick of her behavior, and wouldn't talk to her anymore.

I've had a talk or two or three of this nature with my oldest daughter. It was more about how her friends were always getting into trouble, and how she was getting labeled as a troublemaker along with them. She had one friend that really turned on her, and left her to take the blame in a situation where she wasn't even involved in the activity. That really woke her up, and she chooses her friends more carefully now.

Again, I'd leave her behind. I wouldn't even get her a present from the trip. I'd even assign her a few 'chores' to get done while you were gone, like writing notes of apology to her teachers, making lists of alternative behaviors for situations, etc.

You might even have to get really 'rough' with her - no, not physical, etc, but you've got to break through the 'I don't care' attitude to find out why she's acting out this way. She could just be bored at school (my kids are all the time) or it could be some situation that she hasn't told you about.

 

[lovemygoofy]

Well as someone who came from a young mom and dad not around alot, I could almost tell that story. I'm not that age anymore but do you think she is trying to get attention from YOU? You have two youn daughters who probably take up alot of your time and maybe she needs some one on one time. I realize that some teens think that punishment is spending a week with their parent and no one else but maybe that is what she needs. A week just you and her. I'm sure she is old enough to remember what it was like before the new stepdad and the new sisters and wants that again. I always missed when my mom would be with a new guy and not spend alot of time with me. People try to compensate for what they aren't giving by making excuses or buying things whatever. I had the same kind of grandparents and I think that they felt so bad they just bought me things. I'm not trying to rag on you by any means. It's obvious that you love your daughter. I just wanted to give you something else to think about. Good luck to you.

 

[the kabuki]

Oh, I don't look forward to this, but it's just around the corner for me.

I was alot like your daughter, got in trouble for talking in class, passing notes, etc. Every report card of mine had A's at that age, but also had "Socializes too much during class" I was allowed to get away with alot, mom & dad divorced, I was probably just too much for my mom to handle, she was just too nice.

Looking back, I figured out pretty quick that most of the punishment threats were just that, threats. I knew that I could pretty much talk my way out of most things.

Middle school was where it started and could have probably been stopped had some sort of punishment been followed through. By the time high school came around, well lets just say it didn't get any better. Did many stupid things that I regret now. So if you're going to have any impact it's going to be now. Don't miss this opportunity. I can guarantee you it would only get worse as time goes on if you don't do something now.

 

[tiff211]

Be consistant, but make the punishment fit the crime. Have you taken away phone and friend privledges if she is always getting in trouble for talking? Obviously she is doing it for attention, so have you spent quality time with her so she doesn't seek that attention negatively...I say this because I'm a middle school teacher and we just dealt with a boy who was seriously neglecting his homework because it meant real mom and dad, who are divorced, would have to get together to deal with him and therefore spend time dealing with him together...he was getting attention, even if it was the wrong kind. As for the school suspending her because of excessive detentions/talking etc...it would have to be pretty bad for them to do that because at our school the disciplinaries go home to the parents so they know when their kids get detention and a phone call is always made home to the parents if a suspension occurs.

I see kids like this everyday. Just continue to love her and talk to her and maybe a door will open!

I got that alot about her needing attention. I do try to spend some time with her, going shopping , checking out a movie, grabbing a bite to eat, etc. My time is limited to spend with anyone the way I would like, I work full time-today is a down day , I do home parties on the weekends, I have the other two, and I am pregnant which has me exhausted!! I don't think she purposely does what she does get attention, she doesn't stop to think about the aftermath of her actions!

 

[DisFlan]

tiff211 - I don't normally get involved in family issue messages, but when I responded earlier to your message, I was sitting here with a friend who is an experienced therapist. I gave your responses to him to read. He looked at me and said, "There's something wrong in that kid's life. It might be a behavioral problem, a family problem, or it might be an undiagnosed physical problem. Whatever it is, it needs to be addressed because it's getting her into trouble. How the family deals with this is up to them (at home or with a professional). Not thinking about consequences can be a disorder in itself. She's 13, not 3, and moving quickly toward adulthood. Whatever they do, it better be soon. And excuses don't count."

At any rate - that may be a little blunt, but that's my friend's two cents worth.

Good luck.

DisFlan

 

[brownhaired_girl]

Hi again,
Although I believe you need to be consistant and uphold a punishment that you decided on, I think you need to remember that she should have some kind of warning that this punishment was a possibility. Punishments should not be administered when we are angry. There needs to be some kind of cooling down period. Although I don't think the punishment is excessive you need to be careful that it was not because "Now I'm mad and you're going to pay." I must confess I have had this reaction myself in the past and then felt some guilt. It has probably happened to most parents at one time or another. There is a wonderful book called "How to behave so your children will to." I found the book after a somewhat challenging trip last year with my niece and her 4yo.
I'm so glad my kids are grown!!!!!!!!!
I assure you the book would be worth the time you spent reading.

 

[Mr Poohbrain]

I've only read part of this thread, so pardon me if I say something that someone else may have already brought up.

I agree that she shouldn't go to Disney. As others have stated, stick to your guns.

My question - is staying with her father really "punishment"? What I mean is, yes she won't be going to Disney, but will she still be able to go out and hang with her friends? If so, she may be feeling like the winner in this situation, not the one being punished.

It's just a thought - my days as a 14 year old were over a LONG time ago, but I still remember how I thought (good or bad ) and I'm wondering if she's not gloating about the whole "staying home" thing.

Mrs. PB

 

[dizluvr71]

coming your way. I'm sorry for the difficult time you are having, being a parent is especially difficult at times. Having dealt the last two years with my DSD16, you do need to be consistent and stick to your guns. However, I like some who commented, have on an occasion given punishment to my DS8 that was a little harsh and have changed the punishment to fit the crime. You are the only one that can decide whether or not the punishment is to harsh. My DSD ran away from home for two weeks when she was 14, but now at 16 just made honor roll on her last report card. Things can change! One of the issues for her, was she did not feel any punishment was so bad. She was always making comments about what is the worse that could happen. May I suggest spending a couple of days at school with her, attend classes with her, lunch and break periods. My friend did this with her DS when he was 13 for some of the same reasons and her son straightened up. With the DSD the school finally put her on a contract that was signed by her, the principal and her mother. If she broke her end of the deal she would have to change schools. Her mother also took away alot of her things, except the necessities. She had to earn the other things back, such as being respectful of other people and their feelings. I know for me not having either my DSD or DS on our vacation would be absolutely horrible and is not just punishing the child but the whole family. Best of luck to you and yours!!

 

[disneychrista]

I do not think it is too harsh for her to skip a vacation. I do think if you haven't already, you need to get your DD into counseling and possible get a psychiatric evaluation. My DD turned 14 in January and all I can say is what you are going through is mild comparitively. Good Luck.

 

[tjmw2727]

I don't think you were to harsh and I do think you should follow through, otherwise she will think of all punishment as empty threats. (Not saying you do that, just commenting on what I have read!!).

I would also try and open communication as to why she thinks she does this, if she thinks its ok and see if you can get her to "own" even a small part of it - that is a start, IMHO.

The last thing I would like to offer is something that works for us - a tip a dear girl friend taught me. If you can, give her a chance to earn back the trip if she really wants it. Don't make it easy but encourage every bit of progress she makes. I know my kids can get very discouraged with some punishments and then they have "nothing to loose" so to speak.

Perhaps you can set some goals together, high but attainable, and perhaps well as a way to make up for things. I like consequences (ok punishments LOL) that are linked to the bad behavior. Perhaps volunteering to help the teacher who's job she has made more difficult. Helping you out around the house in an extra not already required way as a compensation for your time spent.

Good luck!!
TJ

 

[Bird-Mom]

I am going to step up and say that it is too harsh. I also agree with the poster who said that punishments shouldn't be given in anger.

I think the most important thing to do is find out why she is acting out. She sounds a lot like my brother and me. We were bored silly in school. If she is getting As, then she is obviously bright, and maybe she needs more work or challenges. So...get her involved. Give her more responsibility. Does her school have a peer tutoring program? Mentoring a younger student? Community service? How about enrichment classes?

I think she would benefit from time spent with family. By excluding her, you could be setting a dangerous precendent. (maybe way off in left field, but she might feel like she is being left out of the family when she obviously needs some guidance) She is screaming for attention from you. Can you make any adjustments in your schedule to make more time for her? I have two little ones and am a student, so I know how hard it is, but I really think she needs some mother/daughter time. You mentioned that you do home parties-could she be a helper/partner with you if the products are appropriate?

I discipline my girls as much as possible with logical consequences. I think those are the most effective. So come up with some logical consequences together, consequences that mean something to her. Have her volunteer for the teachers she disrupted, apologize to the class, that type of thing. By doing so, allow her to earn back the Disney trip. I think she really needs some family time where you can show her how valuable she is rather than leaving her behind.

Good luck.

 

[Evil Queen]

Can I say from expereance? No, but yes, being from a family of teachers.

My children (knock on wood) have never needed/gotten this extreme but have lost many "rights". Not a cut down, but because they have always lost "wants and rights" since age 2, I haven't had to threaten, they know something "importnat" to them is gone in a flash should they get in trouble!

Stand behind your rules. And good job!!