NJ - Education Crisis

[DisneyBamaFan]

When Christie completes his budget cuts, including police and emergency services and you call because someone is breaking into your home, and get an automated message telling you to wait b/c they are understaffed, remember that you wanted everything to be your own responsibility. So please purchase the gun this country entitles you to and protect yourself my friend, b/c you clearly don't want any help from the government.

As for special needs children, how dare you. Do you realize how lucky you are not to have a special needs child, if you don't. Each child is entitled to an education here in America. I'm not saying that this country hasn't gone IEP and 504 crazy, but how can you turn your back on people who don't even have the capacity to fight you back or defend themselves.

 

[Cindy B]

I will agree that NJEA has corrupted education in NJ. I can't tell you how many times I have heard from teachers "Well, that's not what the union said", or "We work hard for our money"

Well, in the real world many people don't get raises, pay for healthcare and their own pension and certainly don't get elite status of being tenured after only 3 years and one day on the job.

There are teachers in my suburban district making over 90K a year. Yes, 90K a year. -- and this is teacher, not administrators or superintendents.. classroom teachers. One band teacher retired last year at a high 89K (like 89 700 something).

I am in a an odd positon as a person trying to get hired as a teacher in NJ as well as a parent with a special needs child. I have some very hard working special education teachers at my sons high school that want him to suceed. I have teachers that want him to work harder so that he can get off his IEP and go to a 504. (I've been wanting that for a long time). However, some see my son as the "subgroup" that works for test scores. Some older veteran teachers--yes English teacher I am talking to you-- that have the mentality of well, he has an IEP -- why isn't in the remedial classes.. which isn't his issue at all!

There are awful teachers in this district that should leave. If they offered early buy out they would leave so quickly. But think, they could hire two to three teachers at the salary of just one older veteran teacher.

The cuts in our district include cutting some extracurriculars or asking parents to pay activities fees. I am fine with paying an activities fee so my children can enjoy activities such as school play or a chorus concert. My son is in band and quite frankly is good at it. It is a class that ups his GPA and contrary to what people think, it is a difficult class-- but just presented in a relaxing way. What happens if they cut band?

The cuts now are educational assistants, colleague teachers, some administrators, extra activities, stipends for teachers and sharing space. Those are necessary cuts.

I will say since Christie announced these cuts, I have been called to substitute teach more often. I was not called so much in a long time but since last week the phone has been ringing constantly.

 

[kimmar067]

And teaching reading...well, let's get rid of all the plays...can't have those...no Shakespeare, no Arthur Miller, no Samuel Beckett...let's not teach any form of public speaking or performance, let's not have any plays or any music or any band or even any banging on found instruments...let's not teach children how American music was informed and formed by all its immigrants - the various cultures that gave rise to the blues, the only true American musical form, let's not teach them how clogging and tap-dancing are related, let's not teach them the ways the call & response forms of music from the African-Americans continues to have an influence on our popular music today...

...uhhhh, isn't that called 'Social Studies'??? [ ]

 

[kimmar067]

They've talking about consolidation for years, but towns want to hang onto their little centers of power....

...OMG, that is SOOOO our community!

I'd like to think that this will force school boards into making that decision, but I think it will take quite some time before that happens. Superintendents are not going to suggest consolidation when they know it means their job is the one that will be eliminated....

...Personally, I think that THE ADMINISTRATION should lose some of their 'perks' and THEIR high salaries...

 

[kimmar067]

....ummm, where is the humor here?? Am I missing something?

 

[TeresaNJ]

Yes to some sort of education - with others at the same ability level. Not in a school. Some place where they can learn life skills.
NOT in a classroom with non-special ed students.

Exactly!

 

[TeresaNJ]

We're not asking them to fix any thing. we are simply asking for the same thing every other citizen gets. Why shouldn't a child with disabities get the same opportunity a so called "normal" child gets? If my child goes to public school he is entitled to the same level of education as a fully abled child. I believe the ADA ensures that.

Sorry if you believe a child with autism should some how be able to thrown in a class room and simple "deal" with the class.

Why do I have to bail out the casinoes? why can't the owners fix them, themselves. why is the government so happy to "fix" trump but not a kid with a physical disability?

This is the problem. Are you then saying this said child, who perhaps has low functioning autism, should be able to attend the same classes as a fully functioning child, along with his or her aides? This is a total waste of man power and money. Political correctness gone amuck.

 

[Cindy B]

Exactly!

I agree. Just last Saturday, I had to drop off my son to school to pick up something in his locker. Unknown to me, the SATs were going on so he had to get an escort to his lokcer.

While waiting for the escort, I saw a special ed aide come up and chat with the guidance counselor. There were students in the deveopmentally delayed classes that couldn't even read the material in the booklet and the aide was chatting with the guidance counselor on how the proctors should proceed.

If you can't read the material, why are they taking SATs?

I've seen kids with IEPs struggle on NJASK. They can't read the material let alone fill in the bubble on the scantron. But since they can't make the critera for an APA (alternate proficiency assessment) they take the NJASK in small groups. So they just spend hours looking out the window and making a pattern in the bubble scan tron --if they even do it at all. It breaks my heart!

I won't even talk about how some classes are so watered down just to meet needs. My son has an IEP and I don't demand an aide or anythign like that. I ask for oral directions, written directions (on the board) and in some cases, preferential seating near the front so he can see better. These are easy and no cost fixes.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

This is the problem. Are you then saying this said child, who perhaps has low functioning autism, should be able to attend the same classes as a fully functioning child, along with his or her aides? This is a total waste of man power and money. Political correctness gone amuck.

But do you think she should have to pay what is almost like a college tuition every year for her child to attend a private type of school? Every child should be entitled to a FREE education.
Most kids who do have low functioning downs or autism or whatever are usually sent out to a school that has more accommodations to deal with that need. However, there are also children who have high functioning downs or autism who will be mainstreamed and can perform well at the level with some assistance/accommodations and/or modifications.
My friend's daughter has downs (her daughter is now in her 30's) when she first found out that her DD had Downs 30 years ago, she had no idea what that was and what her life was going to be like. Her DR. actually suggested that she be institutionalized as she would never function properly in society. My friend was young (in early 20s) and lived in Mississippi and really did not know much about this at all. Her MIL said NO,that her granddaughter would NOT be institutionalized, she was a special ed teacher and knew that they could work with her and take care of her. Now...her daughter is a functioning member of society, she works in a library, makes her own money. So to say that "these people" will not contribute to society or even thrive is not at all accurate.

 

[scanne]

DisneyBamaFan,

There's no humor in what your answered. Are you immune to all of these cuts? Are you one of those people making $400k and not being taxed? Enlighten us all, please, as your posts in this thread are not very kind....and kind of one-sided.....

 

[eliza61]

This is the problem. Are you then saying this said child, who perhaps has low functioning autism, should be able to attend the same classes as a fully functioning child, along with his or her aides? This is a total waste of man power and money. Political correctness gone amuck.

And you still haven't said what we should do with all the kids you deem a total waste of man power. And while we are at it, how do you get to decide which kid is a waste and which is not. I'm willing to bet the mom of the said autistic child pays just as much taxes and will think some of the fully functioning children sitting in classe flunking out are wasting just as much resources. What about the resources and money I'm wasting on the moron who they are passing year to year simply because he can play football. As a matter of fact in 2001 NJ had a graduation rate of only 75%, what about the money I wasting on those losers who are just going to drop out (and probably on some sort of state assistance in 10 years anyway). and those SAT classses that FF kids take for free at my h.s. (which has to be heated and proctered with my tax dollars). what a waste, let them go to kaplan and let their parents be responsible for passing the SAT.

so who gets to do the chosing.

 

[eliza61]

This is how it should work, but collectivists will never allow it. Stop collecting these taxes and let the parents pay for thier children's education. The poor can be given a stipend or grant for this purpose. It would improve schools, as they would be forced to survive in a competitive market, and all things in private industry are more efficient than the same things run by the government, so the costs would go down (overall).

That's cool as long as it's fair and across the board. Can I stop paying taxes for some of the things that supposedly kept us "safe"? Thats the slippery slope we face. You don't want to fund education, I don't want to fund the military. your wants are no better than mine, So can I stop paying that portion (~15%) and we can privatize the NJ national guard?

That would work for me. So how do we choose?

 

[JoiseyMom]

This is the problem. Are you then saying this said child, who perhaps has low functioning autism, should be able to attend the same classes as a fully functioning child, along with his or her aides? This is a total waste of man power and money. Political correctness gone amuck.

I agree with you on this one. There are some children with disabilities that are mainstreamed and shouldn't be. But that is the districts fault. Now, my DD13 bff's mom had to fight to get her DD in an appropriate program. Now she was mainstreamed until 7th grade. Her mom had to SUE our school district for them to get her into a program that would meet her needs. Now her DD is very bright and had good grades..but her other issues (not really sure..I think one thing was Aspergers), but she couldn't really function with other kids, even with her aide. The school was like, well she passes her tests..um..the kid can't tell time though . The district appointed doctor said you child should not be in a mainstream school. Her DD has been in an out of district specialized school and is doing great!! Her educational needs are being met..and yes, my district is paying an arm and a leg for it. THey would rather not and keep the kids in mainstream and just pass em along every year..and that is sad. How much money do they waste on attorney fees every year fighting parents who want their kids to be educated??

Now, my DD has a 504, and my DS has an IEP. Their issues are minor compared to most kids, just ADD and ADHD. But with the wrong teacher the school year can be a nightmare! DS had the best first and now third grade teachers. These teachers are wonderful and should be models of teachers for any type of class. His second grade teacher...not so much. Now, she might be fine for a class with kids with no issues whatsover..but she should never have any special ed kids ever again..she doesn't have the skill set or patience for it. It was a nightmare. We have his IEP meeting this week, and my main concern is placement for 4th grade!!

Needs of all kids can be met..but some kids can't and shouldn't be mainstreamed. That is a fact.

 

[MM27]

Needs of all kids can be met..but some kids can't and shouldn't be mainstreamed. That is a fact.

I agree. I have 5 inclusion kids in one of my classes this year. They have a special ed teacher that stays with them all day. She travels with them from their Literacy class in the morning to my math/science class in the afternoon.

Out of the 5 kids, two of them are successful inclusion students. At this point in the year, they have adjusted well, are performing at a level that is equal to or greater than some of the other students (with some, but minimal support) and they have made the transition from self contained to general ed class a great one.

The three other students require much more one on one interaction during the day from the in-class support teacher. They will not work unless she is sitting, prompting them and even then, they are far below grade level.

My district has been cited by the state for having too many special ed students in self-contained classes. They have been slowly pushing these students into general ed classes, even though for many of them it is not in their best interest. That directive comes right from the brilliant minds in Trenton

 

[disneyworldaddict]

The funding was cut, not the waste. The money at that top will remain and it will be the teachers and students who will be affected. My daughter graduated in '08, so as a parent it doesn't effect me. I remember how many things were cut for my daughters class when our town didn't pass a budget, I can only imagine how bad this will be for the students.

As for regionalization, I'm completely agains it. I attended regionalized schools growing up, and they were huge, and have since grow. The town I live in now is very small and has only one high school just for our town. My daughter went through daycare, dance, soccer and popwarner with all the same people she graduated with. It was a wonderful experience for her. There were never fights in her school, not real problems on the school bus. All things I dealt with that I've heard increased where I grew up she didn't have.

I'm sorry for the students mostly, and the teachers, which is what my daughter is studying for now. And also for the taxpayers who are going to have increased property taxes. So in an attempt to bring people into Jersey, I'm now considering leaving..depending on what he does to my public employee job as a welfare caseworker. The pension is the reason I stay. Theres always a great place in the center of the sunshine state just waiting for me!

 

[pixiedust23]

....ummm, where is the humor here?? Am I missing something?

There is no humor. This is how someone, who realizes that they have no comeback based in fact to support themselves acts. That's all. Well I guess the joke is on them, because fire and police are also going to be suffering cuts and salary freezes.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

There is no humor. This is how someone, who realizes that they have no comeback based in fact to support themselves acts. That's all. Well I guess the joke is on them, because fire and police are also going to be suffering cuts and salary freezes.

Thats pretty sad as well.

 

[Kathi OD]

As for regionalization, I'm completely agains it. I attended regionalized schools growing up, and they were huge, and have since grow. The town I live in now is very small and has only one high school just for our town. My daughter went through daycare, dance, soccer and popwarner with all the same people she graduated with. It was a wonderful experience for her. There were never fights in her school, not real problems on the school bus. All things I dealt with that I've heard increased where I grew up she didn't have.

I'll agree that some of the regional high school districts have grown too large (thinking Freehold Regional and Lenape Regional). We need to move toward K-12 districts throughout the state. The k-8 and 9-12 district model that is so prevalent in the state is what is killing us.

There's no reason why some of the larger regional high school districts couldn't be broken down into smaller districts, but combine them with their smaller k-8 sending districts to provide for better continuity of services and fiscal efficiency.

For example, Rancocas Valley Regional High School District receives students from Lumberton, Mount Holly, Westampton, Eastampton, and Hainesport. The superintendent at RV makes $156,555 ('08-'09) for heading 1 school with approximately 2400 students. The Lumberton superintendent makes $175,998 ('08-'09) for heading 4 schools with approximately 1800 students. Mount Holly has 3 schools with approx. 1000 students and pays its superintendent $125,000. Westampton has 2 schools, approx. 950 students and pays its superintendent $143,853. Hainesport - 1 school, 700 students, superintendent salary $125, 167. Eastampton has 1 school, 750 students, salary $124,622.

That's a total of $851,195 for superintendents covering approx. 7600 students in 12 schools. Move across the river to Pennsylvania, where consolidation was mandated over 50 years ago, and compare the Neshaminy School District's figures. 9500 students in 13 schools. Superintendent's salary...a whopping $169,950! A difference of $681,245!!

Of course, it's not a perfect comparison, but it does highlight the savings that can be had if consolidation of services takes place.

 

[carone0318]

I can tell you that Westampton is trying to combine/eliminate the Superintendent's position and make it a Principal/Superintendent Title. Maybe a step in the right direction!

I'll agree that some of the regional high school districts have grown too large (thinking Freehold Regional and Lenape Regional). We need to move toward K-12 districts throughout the state. The k-8 and 9-12 district model that is so prevalent in the state is what is killing us.

There's no reason why some of the larger regional high school districts couldn't be broken down into smaller districts, but combine them with their smaller k-8 sending districts to provide for better continuity of services and fiscal efficiency.

For example, Rancocas Valley Regional High School District receives students from Lumberton, Mount Holly, Westampton, Eastampton, and Hainesport. The superintendent at RV makes $156,555 ('08-'09) for heading 1 school with approximately 2400 students. The Lumberton superintendent makes $175,998 ('08-'09) for heading 4 schools with approximately 1800 students. Mount Holly has 3 schools with approx. 1000 students and pays its superintendent $125,000. Westampton has 2 schools, approx. 950 students and pays its superintendent $143,853. Hainesport - 1 school, 700 students, superintendent salary $125, 167. Eastampton has 1 school, 750 students, salary $124,622.

That's a total of $851,195 for superintendents covering approx. 7600 students in 12 schools. Move across the river to Pennsylvania, where consolidation was mandated over 50 years ago, and compare the Neshaminy School District's figures. 9500 students in 13 schools. Superintendent's salary...a whopping $169,950! A difference of $681,245!!

Of course, it's not a perfect comparison, but it does highlight the savings that can be had if consolidation of services takes place.

 

[Kathi OD]

I can tell you that Westampton is trying to combine/eliminate the Superintendent's position and make it a Principal/Superintendent Title. Maybe a step in the right direction!

Hopefully, as long as it doesn't mean other layers of administration in between.