News Story - CNN.com - Woman dies a day afer riding Mission Space

[boomhauer]

Bicker - I actually agree with what you're saying. Lord knows, if they ever decided to close Space Mountain because of something like this, I'd be VERY upset.

However, you talk about personal accountability - Couldn't agree more. If it's found out that the attraction did have a part in this death, wouldn't you say Disney has a personal accountability and responsiblity of their own, to do what is in the best interest of their guests?

You talk about everyday activites that have caused deaths. Good point. Here's one - Being from Boston, surely you'll remember the little girl who died after a hockey puck flew over the glass and hit her in the head. She didn't die at the game, but died at the hospital. The NHL could have said "Well, there's a warning on the back of all the tickets, so it's not our responsibility." However, that's not what they did. They took action. They raised the glass up a few feet higher so this wouldn't happen again.

 

[funshipm174]

Personal accountability means taking responsibility for the risks you take, rather that seeking to blame others when those risks have negative results.

<No. I'm saying if someone knows there is a risk, then it is their responsibility>

So, what you are saying is even if you know the attraction is at least part to blame, people should just look the other way????

So answer the question,how many people must die (even those who have taken "Personal accountability" before you start saying the attraction may have some issues to be dealt with?

How many times is it always going to be the persons fault?

Thats why every year the goverment adds safety changes on to the manufacturing of cars, because although they cannot prevent all deaths, they realize there are things they can do to improve the chances of someone getting killed or seriously injured.

 

[bicker]

it is interesting to observe how each person sees their own logic but does not see the other persons

Gosh, I hope that is not the case: Rather, I hope people see the other person's logic but simply disagrees with it. I respect the folks I'm chatting with in this thread to give them that much credit.

I'm personally not seeing the logic in remarks about closing down Boston or removing cars from the road, but again that may be me.

Those were hyperbole. Check out my comments, above, about kayaking and golf. Do those fit your standards better?

It is only reasonable to expect that the guests in line for MS know next to nothing.

The posted warnings are all that are necessary (though, as I mentioned before, I wish they would mention that there have been deaths on similar rides -- and that goes for Space Mountain and Expedition Everest as well.)

I'm seeing that appropriate signage is the very least that needs to be done here.

No one disagrees with you on that, I'm sure.

There are warning signs splashed all over all the parks and they all look the same.

There is no rational reason to believe the risk isn't the same. Based on the facts that are available today, only emotion would lead one to think that the warnings on one thrill ride should be stronger than that of another.

Maybe the warning signs should carry ratings like movies do and be in different colors as to the level of warning.

Great idea. And Mission: Space, Space Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain, Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, Tower of Terror and Expedition Everest should all carry the same, highest, rating.

I'm not sure how it can be anything other than a good idea for all concerned to at least include a distinctively different looking sign that states the possibility of prolonged discomfort after riding or that a current complete physical is in order for this attraction.

Which is already there.

I'm having one hard time seeing that a tourist going to WDW is irresponsible and not taking personal accountability if they failed to have essentially an astronaut level physical done within 30 days of their vacation.

I agree. The issue of personal accountability comes from a person taking on the risk of riding a thrill ride and then (them or others) seeking to shift responsibility from the person who made the decision onto others.

If the ride is certified as safe and the required warnings are posted, as was the case in this situation, there is no blame when something tragic occurs.

 

[bicker]

However, you talk about personal accountability - Couldn't agree more. If it's found out that the attraction did have a part in this death, wouldn't you say Disney has a personal accountability and responsiblity of their own, to do what is in the best interest of their guests?

They would specifically be responsible for making the required changes at that time, based on the new information. Absolutely.

So, what you are saying is even if you know the attraction is at least part to blame, people should just look the other way????

That's a Straw Man. Please rephrase your question.

So answer the question,how many people must die (even those who have taken "Personal accountability" before you start saying the attraction may have some issues to be dealt with?

Zero. No one needs to die. Rather, the only thing necessary is for the best information available from safety experts to indicate that the ride isn't safe. That's it. Nothing more.

How many times is it always going to be the persons fault?

It's never the person's "fault"? What made you ask that?

 

[Mickey Fliers]

Personal accountability means taking responsibility for the risks you take, rather that seeking to blame others when those risks have negative results.

No. I'm saying if someone knows there is a risk, then it is their responsibility.

There is no need to defend the attraction at this time, since there is no evidence that it was the cause of the deaths. That's a red herring.

Indeed. I think the problem is that many people cannot stand the fact that sometimes bad things happen and there is no one for them to blame -- nothing to attack to gain some measure of satisfaction from having exacted revenge for the tragedy.

Sometimes bad things happen. We have to learn to live with that fact.

Our forefathers didn't seem to have this problem.

Yet that's not really the issue. The issue is personal accountability, and specifically personal accountability for the risks we decide to take.

Who gets to decide what is and isn't important? You? Why not respect each person enough to let them make their own decision.

What about kayaks? Should they be banned because there are occasionally people who die from drowning or shark attacks?

What about swimming pools? Drowning ranks as the second leading cause of unintentional injury death for children ages 1 to 14. That's far worse than any theme park attraction. Are you suggesting we ban swimming pools?

What about playgrounds? There are many studies about the phenomenon of playground deaths. Maybe we should demolish them all and make children read instead. I haven't read any studies about reading deaths.

There is a significant risk of death from lighting for all of these "not a necessity" activities: Soccer, baseball and softball, golf, and camping. Are you going to pick up the banner for banning of all these things?

Agreed!

I feel terrible that this woman's family is going through this tragedy.

Let's assume someone has an un-diagnosed medical condition. They have the potential of falling ill, or dropping dead, at any moment. They go about their daily lives without ever knowing that they could be very ill, very soon. Anything could aggravate their condition. Whether it be MS, a heated argument with a loved one, taking a morning jog, getting rear ended in a parking lot, golfing with buddies, or riding IASW one too many times. We all have to live our lives and there should be an assumed risk with every activity. You just never know for sure what is going on inside your body and how it will respond to any given situation.

I just find it pre-mature to say that MS is the direct cause of anyone's death w/o having all the facts. Could MS aggravate an undiagnosed (or diagnosed, for that matter) condition? Sure, but my point is, a lot of activities could. My DH is a Navy Pilot and has been through those centrifuge spinners a ton. Do you think the Military is going to stop using them to train their pilots?

Hopefully I made my point. Now I just seem to be rambling. Sorry.

 

[bicker]

I feel terrible that this woman's family is going through this tragedy.

This bears repeating. While we're discussing what should or shouldn't be done about thrill rides in theme parks, none of that has any bearing on whether this was a tragedy, or whether sympathy for their loss is warranted for the family of this women. This was, unquestionably, a horrible tragedy.

 

[k5thbeatle]

Certainly any sudden unexpected death is tragic. Many of these types(of deaths) are linked with leisure activities. We can't live in glass houses all our lives? "Living" often leads to tragedy (and tragic deaths)!

 

[Thierry444]

I won't go near Mission:Space because of what I've heard about it.

Does it mean you would never take your car anymore ? Much more people die because of car accidents you know...

 

[mushumadness]

well i have been on ms, i didnt like it as i thought it was very tame, and not worth the wait,

but i still wouldnt let any child under 10 on it,

 

[mjgruber]

Mission Space is nothing more than a well-themed version of that old carnival ride Gravitron and its kind. Any looping rollercoaster has to exceed 2 Gs just to keep the rider in the seat at the top of the loop, Mission Space is tame by comparison. As for deaths in WDW in general, in any typical week there will be several hundred thousand guests of all ages and fitness levels touring Disney parks. If your city or county has that population, read your newspaper's obituary section for a few days. Throw out the car accidents and violent crimes and you'll see that in a population of a few hundred thousand, some people just die. Old, young, sick and seemngly healthy, a certain percentage just keel over. Unless they're someone close to you, you never find out the apparent cause and you never question these deaths. The surprising thing to me is, given the crowd levels at WDW, the heat, the stress a vacation can bring, that things like this story aren't every other day occurences. I haven't read the story, but if this person died THE DAY AFTER riding Mission Space, this is a total non-story. It's probably the day after she flew to MCO, or drove 12 hrs on I-95, or did any number of things that an enterprising reporter could link the death to on a slow news day.

Bill From PA

Rule #1 Never Post while Drunk....

Yes people die in town every day, BUT, if every Car accident happened at the same intersection, someone may want to look into it

 

[bicker]

Definitely, and we can rest assured that every fatality on theme park rides at WDW will be investigated very thoroughly. No question about that.

 

[Deedlbugg]

I want to say my heart goes out to this woman's family.
They have unexpectedly lost a wife, or mother, or daughter, or sister, or friend, or ALL of the above. It is heartbreaking to know they lost her on what was obviously supposed to be a vacation, no matter what the cause.
And let's not kid ourselves here. While I certainly DO NOT hold Disney accountable in ANY way shape or form, we all know this ride has been the subject of debatable discussion before. I myself had not planned or riding this attraction because a close friend is an RN at our local pediatricians office.
She told me they get numerous calls a week from parents on vacation who are upset because their children are dizzy and unable to function normally because of an equilibrium problem from this ride. This latest tragedy has solidified my decision. Again, I DO NOT blame Disney, it's just an unnecesary risk for me and my family. I'll head over to World Showcase and eat something decadent and indulging instead

 

[dwkwootton]

Do those fit your standards better?

My standards? LOL .... don't be so touchy, just making a point like everyone else is!


The issue of personal accountability comes from a person taking on the risk of riding a thrill ride and then (them or others) seeking to shift responsibility from the person who made the decision onto others. QUOTE]

I'm not getting wrapped up in who's fault anything is and I'm not sure why there's so much energy going in that direction. Why debate how much risk a tourist is responsibile for in riding a thrill ride? As I've said, why not look at improved methods to prevent further problems?

 

[bicker]

My standards? LOL .... don't be so touchy, just making a point like everyone else is!

I'm sorry -- I wasn't clear. I meant that literally and sincerely. I was acknowledging and respecting your concerns about the comparison to closing down Boston or banning automobiles (which I labeled as "hyperbole"), and suggested that my examples with regard to kayaking, golf, etc., would be more appropriate. I wasn't intending to sound snarky or sarcastic -- it was a sincere reply. Again, sorry for the confusion about that.

I'm not getting wrapped up in who's fault anything is and I'm not sure why there's so much energy going in that direction.

I feel that I understand why so many people are seeking to assign blame. It is human nature to try to rationalize what we don't understand in confortable terms, and the unknown or unknowable isn't comfortable for most people -- at least not most Westerners.

As I've said, why not look at improved methods to prevent further problems?

I don't think you'll see much discussion about that because everyone agrees about that, including Disney.

 

[bccox]

There are alot of "accidents" at other parks
Disney's just gets alot of the press

Just google - rideaccidents

One of the first urls is a web site devoted to "ride accidents"

 

[ellenmiele]

Agreed!

I feel terrible that this woman's family is going through this tragedy.

Let's assume someone has an un-diagnosed medical condition. They have the potential of falling ill, or dropping dead, at any moment. They go about their daily lives without ever knowing that they could be very ill, very soon. Anything could aggravate their condition. Whether it be MS, a heated argument with a loved one, taking a morning jog, getting rear ended in a parking lot, golfing with buddies, or riding IASW one too many times. We all have to live our lives and there should be an assumed risk with every activity. You just never know for sure what is going on inside your body and how it will respond to any given situation.

I just find it pre-mature to say that MS is the direct cause of anyone's death w/o having all the facts. Could MS aggravate an undiagnosed (or diagnosed, for that matter) condition? Sure, but my point is, a lot of activities could. My DH is a Navy Pilot and has been through those centrifuge spinners a ton. Do you think the Military is going to stop using them to train their pilots?

Hopefully I made my point. Now I just seem to be rambling. Sorry.

Last week one of those nighttime "news" shows had a special about medical conditions (maybe it was Dateline) and one of the stories was about a cardiac condition called Long QT Syndrome that can cause sudden death if the person is startled by something as simple as an alram clock or a basketball game clock buzzer. They profiled several families who had young people die from this (previously undiagnosed) condition. It was only after one death in a family that other members were made aware and subsequently were tested for it. Some had it and some didn't.

The human body is a very complex organism and Long QT is only one example of something a that can be asymptomatic for years and then kill with no warning. But people need to live their lives and enjoy every day - who ever knows when it could be their last.

If you think you're healthy, you don't give much thought those warning signs. And unfortunately some people who aren't completely healthy either don't know it or don't want to admit it or just don't want to give in to it and they, too, may ignore those warnings.

Somehow such a tragic event seems even sadder since we can all relate to the moments just before the event as the family/friends were enjoying together the magic of Disney.....may God bless them all...

 

[dwkwootton]

I think this thing is alot like a peanut allergy (or maybe that's just my obsession for food kicking in).

Peanuts do indeed kill certain people. Maybe whether or not they should be banned altogether might make for a good debate?

Point is, as awareness to the problem increased, so did preventative measures. Food labelling laws changed dramatically. Peanut free zones became available. Again, it could be argued that peanuts were in the list of ingredients under the old standard and that should be good enough or that at-risk people should take the responsiblity to know that peanuts can be found in beef stew. Instead of wasting time in senseless blameshifting, solutions were sought out and implemented.

 

[robvia]

Simulator (tricks the brain) + Gravatron + confined space = major sickness.

How come we never hear of people becoming ill after riding It's a Small World?

http://www.rideaccidents.com/
I don't see stats of people who die after visiting other parks.

 

[DisFhan]

Mission Space is nothing more than a well-themed version of that old carnival ride Gravitron and its kind.

Bill From PA

Thank you......I think that the Gravitron had to be more than 2 G's. But I also agree that small Children should not be allowed to go on rides of this nature.

 

[kaysmommie]

Since one of the people who died was 4 ( and according to Disney had a "Heart" issue ), are you suggesting every 4 yr old have a Cartiogram before they ride? I am not saying you are wrong, just have the "Heart Exam Line" clearly posted.

P.S. If these people have "Health issues" why arent they dying on other rides? Hmmmmm

Thank you! Also the women they haven't said if she had a heart problem or not. But normal healthy people are getting very sick on this ride. I think letting a 4 yr. old on this ride is bad parenting IMO.