Newest Ms Change!

[LIFERBABE]

Just wanted to point out that I had 2 'good' posts in as many weeks. Who says you can't teach an old frog new croaks!



-Tony

Tony you are EL FUEGO !!

Will the real Greenban please stand up? I dont know whether to believe you or not with that disclaimer at the bottom of your post. Maybe you can toggle it off when you are being serious and toggle it back on when you are just

 

[RobDoc]

...
I also fell it Hurts/negatively/The third party reservation for two reasons

#1. More supply, than before of third party DVC reservations
than previous supply, before this change

#2. NON DVC MEMBERS, can no longer verify, after you give them written confirmation, that Rental still exists, creating some level of anxiety/distrust
that did not exist when DVC members, could call DVC MS in the past and verify those reservations at their discretion.

Again, the ONLY change here is that DVC now seems to be actually enforcing their own policies as stated in our legal documents. In addition to the language describing one transfer per Use Year, there is also language stating that DVC will not assist members who wish to rent their accommodations. DVC has NO responsibility to make it easier for members to rent their points.

Those who are not pleased with the situation should certainly write DVC to let them know ... but, I suspect that the recent implementations are a direct result of members complaining that policies were not being followed - both by writing to complain and possibly even from the many comments and opinions expressed in threads here on the DIS.

Based on the poll on the Mousecellaneous board, it might also appear that these changes will actually affect very few - possibly only those who "Rent for Profit" , as those who are occasional renters should not be greatly affected.

As with many things, members now just have to learn how to use the rules to their advantage- just as a few have been doing until now.

.02

 

[cobbler]

Wow, very interesting indeed. Bummer as I hav 2 non-DVC resorts to stay at yet to complete my list.

I wanted to transfer and pay cash but looks like I will have to use my points now to do so Not entirely bad but wow.

With all these changes it will be quite interesting in the next few months to see how this effects things.

 

[Chuck S]

Wow, very interesting indeed. Bummer as I hav 2 non-DVC resorts to stay at yet to complete my list.

I wanted to transfer and pay cash but looks like I will have to use my points now to do so Not entirely bad but wow.

With all these changes it will be quite interesting in the next few months to see how this effects things.

Well, there is still nothing preventing you from renting a DVC ressie (as in a regular rental), and using that cash for a non-DVC stay, cruise, or whatever. All it does is prevent more than one transfer to other DVC members per year.

 

[cobbler]

Well, there is still nothing preventing you from renting a DVC ressie (as in a regular rental), and using that cash for a non-DVC stay, cruise, or whatever. All it does is prevent more than one transfer to other DVC members per year.

Yeah, I know. It is just much easier to transfer.

I probably will have to rent to my family now

 

[kimberh]

I have not received anything in the mail. What is the effective date with MS? Can we still bank transferred points at anytime. That was effective last week. Did they change that too?

 

[Doctor P]

I have not received anything in the mail. What is the effective date with MS? Can we still bank transferred points at anytime. That was effective last week. Did they change that too?

You are unlikely to ever get a notification since this is not a change in official policy. It's merely an enforcement of what is in your ownership documents already.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I have not received anything in the mail. What is the effective date with MS? Can we still bank transferred points at anytime. That was effective last week. Did they change that too?

Well, since this IS NOT A CHANGE from the original documents, I'd say the effective date was sometime in 1991, and you will NOT be getting any kind of notification other than what is in your original documents or POS. Banking shouldn't be effected by this.

I too am wondering if maybe MS will start following the official occupancy rules soon too. That would certainly quell any arguements about getting more room keys than official occupants.

 

[Plutofan]

People should think about planing trips early and using borrowed points. We always run into next years points since I do not want to take a chance and lose any points. Just a thought. I wonder if they will make an exception if you transfer from one of your contracts to another one of your contract? Going forward it may be a pain when you do not have enough points for the 11 month window so you book some part of your reservation 11 months out and the remining 7 months out with a different contract.

 

[flynnibus]

I find it very alarming that MS can make a change of this magnitude with no advance warning. I just completed a 18 person trip that required me to make several transfers to get the required number of points into my account as the number of nights for each family kept changing. What if I was in the middle of this process when they made this change? That would not have benn a good situation.

Becuase you would have been held to the previous rules? Couldn't you have bought your way into the situation you needed rather then transfering piece-meal?

 

[greenban]

People should think about planing trips early and using borrowed points. We always run into next years points since I do not want to take a chance and lose any points. Just a thought. I wonder if they will make an exception if you transfer from one of your contracts to another one of your contract? Going forward it may be a pain when you do not have enough points for the 11 month window so you book some part of your reservation 11 months out and the remining 7 months out with a different contract.

No, they will not. I have asked this specific question, as through resales I have 4 seperate UYs.

One in or out per UY per year!

(Whisper, of course if your very nice to an Advisor, magical things have been known to happen, shhhhh don't tell anyone else!)

-Tony

 

[Beca]

Personally, I think this has FAR less to do with controlling the rental market, as it does to help ensure that people who are currently buying SSR can stay at other resorts. Now, don't flame me for this....I have a "bird" (not my guide...someone else) who told me that DVC doesn't really care about the rental market...point are points. DVC has just received so many complaints by recent SSR purchasers who were told that they could "stay wherever they want" who have NOT been able to do so, that DVC felt they needed to make sure that these SSR owners could be able to stay other places.

When you think about it. These changes certainly make SSR a much better place to buy. The biggest change we will see from these "enforcements" is a change in availability at resorts. Since "big-time renters" cannot transfer in a large number of points to rent out, fewer rooms will be taken up by them, and more rooms will be available to owners.

I think the other people who will benefit from this will be BWV owners. I think standard view and BW view rooms will be the ONLY rooms that you will still need to book before the 7 month window opens...all other rooms at all other resorts (even the GV's at OKW) will be MUCH easier to get...my BCV's included!!

The downside to this may be that if DVC can boost sales of SSR, and feel that they can "open up" availability at other DVC resorts, that decreases the chance that the next resort will be the Contemporary, and increases the chances that EP may come back to the table. And, we will have another condo-style mega complex not associated with a park....a style that I think has been shown to not be the "preferred resort" of the majority of DVC owners. And then, we will be back to "no availability" at the smaller resorts.

Personally, I grieve for the loss of flexibility with my points. I think this is going to create havoc on the rental board, and we will se a lot more "negotiation" in price of transfers (i.e. if you can find someone who has something CLOSE to the number of points you are looking for (but, actually has too many)), the cost per point may go WAY up. If you have to buy a LOT more points from that person, you will certainly try to negotiate for a lower price. I also think that people who rent will have a "perceived" loss of control, so "three way calls" to MS might become much more popular.

So, the question is....will there be significantly fewer points on the rental market, thus causing rental prices to go up? Or, will there be fewer people looking to rent, thus causing the prices to drop? Only time will tell.....

The truth of the matter is that MOST DVC owners have no clue what possibilities exist for manipulation of their points. We have all heard stories of how many points get wasted by owners every year. For the MAJORITY of DVC owners, this will have no effect at all....it is just us "Diser's" who will notice a big difference.

However, I am REALLY glad now that I sold 150 BCV points earlier in the year. There are a LOT of times that 540 points was too many for my family. I bought knowing I could transfer or rent....it is still too early to tell how those markets will be affected. But, for us....390 is a much more "manageable" number.

I also think that we should learn to be be "borrowers" of points. I think we should all try to make sure that we are a few points into next year's allocation to prevent wasting any points (this is if you cannot bank early enough). Availability should be better, so last minute trips should be easier.

However, another big question is how these changes will affect resale prices...at least in the "short term"? I wonder if people who have routinely found themselves with "extra" points at the end of every year will put small contracts up for sale? How will that affect the price? And, ROFR? And, then how will that affect the waitlist for points? Maybe that waitlist will open up?

These effects could be fleeting, or they could have a rippling effect in many areas....really, only time will tell.

Where's my ? I'm settling in to watch the show!!



Beca

 

[CarolA]

OK maybe it's just me but I fail to see how this is going to open up other resorts....

BCV, BWV etc are SOLD out. This does not change that situation. So if all of us BCV folks book at 11 months for Food & Wine (and a LOT of us do) then this makes not a hill of beans difference. Transfers or not there weren't any ROOMS!

If BWV owners book SV at 11 months (and I know a LOT who do) then there aren't any rooms. This doesn't make more rooms!

I guess the assumption was that we were all transferring in 11 months in advance from SSR contracts to BWV and BCV, but as I read the rent/trade board, there isn't much in the 11 month window. More like.. I need points for Sept, Oct, Nov etc.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

OK maybe it's just me but I fail to see how this is going to open up other resorts....

What about having a bunch of SSR points transfered into my BCV account so I can book up a bunch of prime-time BCV units. by limiting transfers it may help open up more units between the 11-7 month mark.

 

[kimberh]

I have to agree with Beca on how hard it has been to get into some of the resorts. I feel this is either to make those of us that were getting transfers to buy more points or for the SSR resorts owners to get into the theme park resorts at the 7 month window. I guess we are going to have to see how this plays out. I am not happy about it at all. I feel the flexibility has left and some of us will be left with points and no way to use them. Who benefits from this but Disney. This gives them more rooms to rent at twice the money. Disney is having two price increases this year. 1. Tax up to 12.5% effective 09/01/06 and the room rate up Jan 1,2007. This feels like a price increase to me. If we can't transfer and make the most of our points, there should be room inventory for Disney.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[rinkwide]

Excellent analysis Beca.

And Johnnie's right, professional BCV and BWV renters were indeed using the transfer loophole to overbook those resorts. This change is really a minor inconvenience to the rest of us but certainly a death blow to them.

When greenban calls tomorrow I expect an announcement that DVC II owners will be allowed to book any resort at their own exclusive "8 month" window. That oughta' put some lipstick on the pig.

Don't touch that dial, Tony.

 

[KANSAS]

beca

I agree 100% with your analysis. Thanks for your comments.


I consider your comments some of the most valuable on this disuccsion board.


I do feel this will create some change for DVC members. I am just not sure
exactly what.

I do feel the transfer change/is a sigfnicant change.

 

[greenban]

Excellent analysis Beca.

And Johnnie's right, professional BCV and BWV renters were indeed using the transfer loophole to overbook those resorts. This change is really a minor inconvenience to the rest of us but certainly a death blow to them.

When greenban calls tomorrow I expect an announcement that DVC II owners will be allowed to book any resort at their own exclusive "8 month" window. That oughta' put some lipstick on the pig.

Don't touch that dial, Tony.

Great analysis Beca!

Rink, I did call again......

In fact I called 3 times......

Twice I got MS-Advisors I know, and trust.....

and......

All three said that the next DVC has infact been announced to them.

"Everyone is gonna be suprised!" was the direct quoted response each gave when pressed.

And no, they would not even give me a hint.

FWIW, I believe that the next DVC has been announced internally!

Now I gotta go check out this 8 month old pig with lipstick!

-Tony

 

[kimberh]

Great analysis Beca!

Rink, I did call again......

In fact I called 3 times......

Twice I got MS-Advisors I know, and trust.....

and......

All three said that the next DVC has infact been announced to them.

"Everyone is gonna be suprised!" was the direct quoted response each gave when pressed.

And no, they would not even give me a hint.

FWIW, I believe that the next DVC has been announced internally!

Now I gotta go check out this 8 month old pig with lipstick!

-Tony

Did MS say when we would be told?

Kim

 

[JimMIA]

I feel the flexibility has left and some of us will be left with points and no way to use them.

Actually, in that scenario, the typical DVC owner will have the same options we've always had -- rent or transfer. We just won't be able to make multiple transfers in the same direction like we were previously permitted to do...with a blind eye to the transfer rules that have always been there.

Who benefits from this but Disney. This gives them more rooms to rent at twice the money.

I try to read the whole thread before saying things like that. That question has already been asked and answered -- and the correct answer is exactly the opposite of what you are saying.

Disney is having two price increases this year. 1. Tax up to 12.5% effective 09/01/06 and the room rate up Jan 1,2007.

Not unless Disney steals the tax money! Tax money doesn't go to Disney! It goes to the state and county.

If we can't transfer and make the most of our points, there should be room inventory for Disney.

Please read the thread to see where that "breakage income" goes.