"Naked" X-Ray Scans At The Airport.. Your Thoughts?

[shrubber]

Were the general public allowed to bring guns onboard, the victim is much more likely to be someone listening to music so loud it can be heard several rows away, despite headphones; or an armrest-hog; or a passenger moving another passenger's overhead luggage to fit her/his own in; or any of dozens of scenarios - i.e. the normal, everyday little annoyances of air travel - than to ever be a hijacker. No, it's not opinion. These incidents occur daily on flights. How many domestic flights have been attacked by terrorists in this century? Compare that to the over 100,000,000* domestic flights in the last ten years.

*not opinion http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/34532

I don't doubt the number of flights.

Did you know that there has not been one case of somebody with a CCW commiting a crime with a gun? Not one charge of 'shooting the wrong guy' or ' oops, my mistake' ....Your comment that an american citizen lawfully armed with a ccw permit would shoot someone over an armrest borders on the absurd. Frankly, it is absurd, because it has never happened. It has never happened on a plane, a bus , a train, a bicycle, or on horseback, or walking down the street. Never. Period.
You can be anti second amendment if you want. But it does not really pertain to the issue we have been discussing now does it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

So you've been worried about the unlikely possibility of an innocent bystander being hurt if someone misfires a gun on a plane, but shooting the whole plane out of the sky, killing everyone aboard, let alone the people on the ground, is pretty much ok as a last resort.?

Shooting a plane down wouldn't be done with an 'itchy trigger finger' or because the person with the gun had one drink too many, or didn't sleep well last night. It would be done as you said - as the absolute last resort.

You, on the other hand, have far too much faith in the relatively untrained passenger. Yes, yes, I know - some type of training course is required. It's all about how to handle the gun - not about judgment, common sense, or anything else that would make me feel the least bit secure if Joe Q. Shrubber was on my flight with a gun.

And, for the third (or fourth) time - why concealed? Not that it'll ever happen, but if passengers were permitted to carry guns on commercial flights, what in the world would be the point of concealing the weapon??????????????????????????????????????

 

[kaytieeldr]

You can be anti second amendment if you want.

Not the slightest idea where that came from. Again, I don't understand your fascination with 'concealed'. It's not in the Bill of Rights; an exposed gun is a much more effective deterrent than a hidden one.

But, again - please go back and read LisaR's excellent argument against allowing 'just anyone' to carry a gun on a commercial flight.

 

[shrubber]

]Shooting a plane down wouldn't be done with an 'itchy trigger finger' or because the person with the gun had one drink too many, or didn't sleep well last night. It would be done as you said - as the absolute last resort.

It is ILLEGAL in all states to carry a weapon if you have been drinking. Citizen, LEO or otherwise.....I propose that being shot down by a rocket should NOT be my last resort on an airplane, I propose that I be able to defend myself and my family with my weapon. I choose NOT to be the only unarmed person on the aircraft.

You, on the other hand, have far too much faith in the relatively untrained passenger. Yes, yes, I know - some type of training course is required. It's all about how to handle the gun - not about judgment, common sense, or anything else that would make me feel the least bit secure if Joe Q. Shrubber was on my flight with a gun.

Although training for a CCW permit varies from state to state, you are incorrect in your assumption. Most of the training is indeed dedicated to proper judgement,about when to and when not to draw your weapon. All states require that the weapon cannot be drawn unless you or someone else faces an immediate threat to their life. A far cry from your armrest scenairo

And, for the third (or fourth) time - why concealed? Not that it'll ever happen, but if passengers were permitted to carry guns on commercial flights, what in the world would be the point of concealing the weapon??????????????????????????????????????[/

QUOTE]

The reason to keep a weapon concealed is mainly twofold. First, there is no need to show your weapon ( and indeed , if concealed, illegal to draw your weapon, if you are not in immediate harms way.
Another reason, is to insure control of your weapon, a visable weapon has the possibility of being retrieved ( however unlikely ) by someone else.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Did you know that there has not been one case of somebody with a CCW commiting a crime with a gun?

Did you know that right up through September 10, 2001 there had not been one case of somebody flying a plane into a U.S. building as an act of terrorism? Or that throughout the history of the world until 1969, no human had ever walked on the moon? Or that until 1987, no Super Bowl player had ever said on camera, "I'm going to Disney World"? Or, for that matter, that until 1967 there'd never been a Super Bowl? For that matter, that prior to 1920 there wasn't even a National Football League to make the Super Bowl possible?


LOTS of things never happened before until they happened for the first time.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I choose NOT to be the only unarmed person on the aircraft.

Your paranoia is showing. According to your unsupported figures, only one or two of every hundred flights has anybody aboard with a gun. How can this possibly make you the only unarmed person on a flight?

 

[shrubber]

Not the slightest idea where that came from. Again, I don't understand your fascination with 'concealed'. It's not in the Bill of Rights; an exposed gun is a much more effective deterrent than a hidden one.

But, again - please go back and read LisaR's excellent argument against allowing 'just anyone' to carry a gun on a commercial flight.

The Bill of Rights does not tell you what rights you have, it tells you what the government cannot legislate against. The right to a concealed weapon exists in the good old Tenth Amendment.
more here...
http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/

I do not believe that 'just anyone' should be able to carry on an airplane and never said so. I said people with a CCW should be allowed to carry with frangible ammo.

 

[declansdad]

Time to leave this thread. My 8 year old son has more common sense that some posters on this thread.

 

[shrubber]

Did you know that right up through September 10, 2001 there had not been one case of somebody flying a plane into a U.S. building as an act of terrorism? Or that throughout the history of the world until 1969, no human had ever walked on the moon? Or that until 1987, no Super Bowl player had ever said on camera, "I'm going to Disney World"? Or, for that matter, that until 1967 there'd never been a Super Bowl? For that matter, that prior to 1920 there wasn't even a National Football League to make the Super Bowl possible?


LOTS of things never happened before until they happened for the first time.

That is completly illogical. All of those things have happened!

 

[shrubber]

Your paranoia is showing. According to your unsupported figures, only one or two of every hundred flights has anybody aboard with a gun. How can this possibly make you the only unarmed person on a flight?

My unsupported figures? Like the very post (732) where I offered them up and provide the link?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TRAVEL/03/25/siu.air.marshals/index.html

Those unsupported figures or some others?
According to that there would be a greater than 99% chance there would NOT be an armed air marshall aboard.

 

[sbell111]

Well, getting a CCW permit takes a little more than an hour....

True. Depending on location, it can take an entire day to get. Wow.

What has been utterly incomprehensible is that the federal government considers destroying a hijacked airliner, and thereby killing every single passenger, more palatable than allowing the arming of passengers.

The fact is, that 'last case scenario' has been around since before 9/11. It simply was never implemented. Even now, the chances of your hijacked plane getting shot down is amazingly slim. Everything has to go wrong and stay wrong for it to happen.

Did you know that there has not been one case of somebody with a CCW commiting a crime with a gun? Not one charge of 'shooting the wrong guy' or ' oops, my mistake' ...

This is another case of your posting something that is completely untrue. That makes three times in this thread.

You stated that frangible rounds couldn't pierce the skin of an aircraft. That was untrue.

You stated that that bullets fired within an aircraft couldn't bring it down. That's untrue.

Now you've stated that no CCW holder has ever committed a crime with his weapon. That is also untrue.

Please do not continue to post false information in order to support your weak argument.

 

[shrubber]

True. Depending on location, it can take an entire day to get. Wow.

The fact is, that 'last case scenario' has been around since before 9/11. It simply was never implemented. Even now, the chances of your hijacked plane getting shot down is amazingly slim. Everything has to go wrong and stay wrong for it to happen.

This is another case of your posting something that is completely untrue. That makes three times in this thread.

You stated that frangible rounds couldn't pierce the skin of an aircraft. That was untrue.

Care to offer proof or is this opinion?

You stated that that bullets fired within an aircraft couldn't bring it down. That's untrue.

I don't believe I ever said that? Again, proof?

Now you've stated that no CCW holder has ever committed a crime with his weapon. That is also untrue.

Again,sigh, care to offer any proof?

Please do not continue to post false information in order to support your weak argument

.

I very well could say the same to you! I have indeed offered proof of all of my statements of fact. I look forward to yours. Happy googling......

 

[sbell111]

I very well could say the same to you! I have indeed offered proof of all of my statements of fact. I look forward to yours. Happy googling......

You haven't supported those statements with any proof.

As far as the rest, I gave proof to the frangible round issue earlier in the thread. You have on numerous occasions suggested that bullets could not bring down the aircraft, most recently in your WW2 posts. As far as weapons crimes by CCW holders, do you really need to me to cite examples of wrongful shootings, brandishments, spousal abuse & murder, and other various crimes? Do you honestly deny that none of these have ever happened? Really?

 

[KathyTX]

This debate has gone far enough...