Naked as a Jay Bird!

[chicagodisneyfan]

I think naked kids are just about the cutest thing. My parents have a ton of kids on their block and in the summer someone is usually naked (toddlers) and running in a sprinkler. No worries.

Parents in the neighborhood refuse to parent by fear. Instead they practice caution but still let the kids experience the joys of being carefree.

Now I must apologize to anyone at Pop Century (hate this hotel but that is another thread) last week who saw a naked 4 year old boy. And oh the horror it was so funny a mom took a photo of it. I guess I should have tracked her down and broken her camera. Anyway, family trip, I was tired so I agreed to take my 4 year old cousin back to the room for a nap.

Well we decided to swim first (he is like a fish). When I tell him it is time to get out of the pool, he gets out and strips. Then he sees my face and starts laughing. I was like what the heck - this is not my kid - what do I do now! I guess he does a lot of swimming in his suburb and when the kids get out of the pool the first thing they do is hang up their suit to dry and then grab a towel.

I finally corral him and then wrap him in a towel and get him to the room. Where he proceeds to jump on the bed - naked. I started laughing - I had this mental picture of the germ freaks having a fit over a naked kid on the comforter. Oh the horror - he may catch something.

I refuse to think nudity in children is wrong. I occasionally see it at the beaches or in the fountains here.... it seems so joyful and fun. (and kinda makes me wish I could do it too)

 

[Ember]

Just some statistics that might help inform regarding child sex offenders:

* The typical child sex offender molests an average of 117 children, most of who do not report the offence.
Source: National Institute of Mental Health, 1988.

* About 60% of the male survivors sampled report at least one of their perpetrators to be female.
Source: Mendel, 1993.

* About 95% of victims know their perpetrators.
Source: CCPCA, 1992.

* It is estimated that approximately 71% of child sex offenders are under 35 and knew the victim at least casually. About 80% of these individuals fall within normal intelligence ranges; 59% gain sexual access to their victims through, seduction or enticement.
Source: Burgess & Groth, 1984.

 

[mkycrzy1971]

OMG!!! We actually agree on something. Weird

See, there is hope!!

 

[NotUrsula]

... how would you feel if a (to give an example) police office came knocking on your door one day and told you they had busted a child porn ring and they identified one of the pics on the site as one of your children...

OK, let's look at this idea. How is this going to happen? How is a total stranger (I'm assuming that Uncle Ralphy isn't a member of this ring this time; we're just talking about total strangers here) going to have identified YOUR child in such a way that police officers would be able to connect the child's identity with the photograph (unless of course the photo was taken with your vehicle or home clearly identified by number/name in the background)?
Even if the person captioned it with "lookee what I saw at WDW's grotto fountain on 2/10/06 at 2 pm", I don't see how anyone is going to be able to determine the identity of a particular child from that, unless the child is wearing a piece of clothing that identifies his school or something, and of course, if he was, then he wouldn't be naked, would he?

Second, WHY would the police come knocking or even bother to attempt to identify the child? The child in the photograph is not a perpetrator, so nothing is served by identifying the child, because the photo itself being posted to a website and captioned is prima facie evidence that the perpetrator meant to use the image of a child for sexual gratification. (If the image is used in court the police will block out the face.) However, the existence of the image itself isn't grounds for any kind of charge. Pornography is rather narrowly defined by law, and simple nudity doesn't qualify as porn. The poses must be provocative or actually depict sex acts in order to qualify. Now if someone has photoshopped the image to make it appear to depict a sex act, then it is porn, but it's easy to tell if that has been done if you have access to the original file -- photoshopping leaves digital signatures. The police would ONLY attempt to locate a victim if they determined that the child depicted in a pornographic image was a real child and not a photoshopped composite; otherwise it would be a pointless needle-in-a-haystack proposition and a waste of their valuable time.

 

[mkycrzy1971]

OK, let's look at this idea. How is this going to happen? How is a total stranger (I'm assuming that Uncle Ralphy isn't a member of this ring this time; we're just talking about total strangers here) going to have identified YOUR child in such a way that police officers would be able to connect the child's identity with the photograph (unless of course the photo was taken with your vehicle or home clearly identified by number/name in the background)?
Even if the person captioned it with "lookee what I saw at WDW's grotto fountain on 2/10/06 at 2 pm", I don't see how anyone is going to be able to determine the identity of a particular child from that, unless the child is wearing a piece of clothing that identifies his school or something, and of course, if he was, then he wouldn't be naked, would he?

Second, WHY would the police come knocking or even bother to attempt to identify the child? The child in the photograph is not a perpetrator, so nothing is served by identifying the child, because the photo itself being posted to a website and captioned is prima facie evidence that the perpetrator meant to use the image of a child for sexual gratification. (If the image is used in court the police will block out the face.) However, the existence of the image itself isn't grounds for any kind of charge. Pornography is rather narrowly defined by law, and simple nudity doesn't qualify as porn. The poses must be provocative or actually depict sex acts in order to qualify. Now if someone has photoshopped the image to make it appear to depict a sex act, then it is porn, but it's easy to tell if that has been done if you have access to the original file -- photoshopping leaves digital signatures. The police would ONLY attempt to locate a victim if they determined that the child depicted in a pornographic image was a real child and not a photoshopped composite; otherwise it would be a pointless needle-in-a-haystack proposition and a waste of their valuable time.

Obviously we agree to disagree...I was using this as an example of how you would feel if it DID happen..and yes...it is a possible senerio....but again, we agree to disagree. As I have said in previous posts...I will not take that chance with my children...modesty is the best policy in our family...if it is not for yours, then that is your choice I guess.

 

[mkycrzy1971]

I think naked kids are just about the cutest thing. My parents have a ton of kids on their block and in the summer someone is usually naked (toddlers) and running in a sprinkler. No worries.

Parents in the neighborhood refuse to parent by fear. Instead they practice caution but still let the kids experience the joys of being carefree.

Now I must apologize to anyone at Pop Century (hate this hotel but that is another thread) last week who saw a naked 4 year old boy. And oh the horror it was so funny a mom took a photo of it. I guess I should have tracked her down and broken her camera. Anyway, family trip, I was tired so I agreed to take my 4 year old cousin back to the room for a nap.

Well we decided to swim first (he is like a fish). When I tell him it is time to get out of the pool, he gets out and strips. Then he sees my face and starts laughing. I was like what the heck - this is not my kid - what do I do now! I guess he does a lot of swimming in his suburb and when the kids get out of the pool the first thing they do is hang up their suit to dry and then grab a towel.

I finally corral him and then wrap him in a towel and get him to the room. Where he proceeds to jump on the bed - naked. I started laughing - I had this mental picture of the germ freaks having a fit over a naked kid on the comforter. Oh the horror - he may catch something.

I refuse to think nudity in children is wrong. I occasionally see it at the beaches or in the fountains here.... it seems so joyful and fun. (and kinda makes me wish I could do it too)

I too refuse to think this...it is NOT wrong....just inappropriate in public places because of today's society....period.

 

[Freyja]

I think naked kids are just about the cutest thing. My parents have a ton of kids on their block and in the summer someone is usually naked (toddlers) and running in a sprinkler. No worries.

Parents in the neighborhood refuse to parent by fear. Instead they practice caution but still let the kids experience the joys of being carefree.

Now I must apologize to anyone at Pop Century (hate this hotel but that is another thread) last week who saw a naked 4 year old boy. And oh the horror it was so funny a mom took a photo of it. I guess I should have tracked her down and broken her camera. Anyway, family trip, I was tired so I agreed to take my 4 year old cousin back to the room for a nap.

Well we decided to swim first (he is like a fish). When I tell him it is time to get out of the pool, he gets out and strips. Then he sees my face and starts laughing. I was like what the heck - this is not my kid - what do I do now! I guess he does a lot of swimming in his suburb and when the kids get out of the pool the first thing they do is hang up their suit to dry and then grab a towel.

I finally corral him and then wrap him in a towel and get him to the room. Where he proceeds to jump on the bed - naked. I started laughing - I had this mental picture of the germ freaks having a fit over a naked kid on the comforter. Oh the horror - he may catch something.

I refuse to think nudity in children is wrong. I occasionally see it at the beaches or in the fountains here.... it seems so joyful and fun. (and kinda makes me wish I could do it too)

Just some statistics that might help inform regarding child sex offenders:

* The typical child sex offender molests an average of 117 children, most of who do not report the offence.
Source: National Institute of Mental Health, 1988.

* About 60% of the male survivors sampled report at least one of their perpetrators to be female.
Source: Mendel, 1993.

* About 95% of victims know their perpetrators.
Source: CCPCA, 1992.

* It is estimated that approximately 71% of child sex offenders are under 35 and knew the victim at least casually. About 80% of these individuals fall within normal intelligence ranges; 59% gain sexual access to their victims through, seduction or enticement.
Source: Burgess & Groth, 1984.

My point exactly.

 

[vancesmom]

I'm amazed that the innocence of a child's little bum has turned into such a debate.

 

[Stepharia]

We just got back from our wonderful Disney Vacation! Had a blast... but ran into a situation that kept our family talking for days:

We were headed to IASW and passed Ariel's Grotto, where we all looked to see what the wait time was. As we look up, we see kids playing in the water feature there. We turned back around, minding our own business. Then, we all collectively stop, turn back around and see a little boy, about 4 years old, completely naked and playing in the water!! It was about right then that a CM tried to guide the little boy back to his mother/grandmother (don't know which), to at least let some pants on.

I just can't get over the fact that you don't know who/what is out there. With two kids of my own, it scares me silly! Also, there were other kids playing with this little boy, so I don't know if these other parents just didn't care, as well, or were too uncomfortable to say, "No. You can't play with that naked kid!"

My question is, I am the only one that has encountered this in WDW (or any other place, for that matter)? Do others think it's "No big deal"?

I'd love to hear stories or anything anyone has to say! Thanks!!

Were you there this past Friday? We met up with some friends (we both just happened to be in WDW and at MK the same day) Friday evening at MK and they were telling us about seeing a little boy running naked earlier that day playing in that area. It had to be the same one. I told them that just earlier that day we (myself and dd8) were at Blizzard Beach and there was a little girl about 8 or 9 in the kid area running around without a top on. I can understand that maybe from a infant or toddler but not a girl at that age. I was just shocked at what people let their kids do.

 

[starlionblue]

Last year we were at Ogunquit Beach in Maine and a woman walked her naked 4 yr old or so past everyone to the rocks, up by the public canopy to pee. Needless to say the bathrooms were right up there in plain view. What is the matter with people's heads????????

Go to the Chinatown section of New York City. It smells like pee because parents have their kids pee on the sidewalks! Disgusting! I wonder if they would be angry if we had our kids pee in their houses? I'll never go into any Chinatown again. I also heard that the Belgians like to pee in public too!

 

[Pooh Bear Hugs]

When I was a little girl I had a habit of taking my bathing costume of as soon as it got wet much to my dads amusement. He is very strict and doesn't approve of it but after the twentyth time even he thought it was funny. Eventualy he decided to just let me swim in my nickers which lasted a while, till we went swimming in a stream and off they came and floated away.
This behaviour went on till I was about five, then Dad decided it was time I grew up and stayed dressed. Up until this time I went in the bath with my Dad too. I see nothing wrong with it infact I can still remember how upset I was when dad said I was too old to go in the bath with him anymore. My youngest son (nearly six) still jumps in the bath with me and the oldest (10 years) thinks nothing of walking into the bathroom to talk to me. Maybe it is a European thing or maybe it's just a me thing. There are enough things to stress about, children arn't as free to be children as they used to be which is sad. I still remember being able to play out in the woods or up the hill, but am too scared to allow my boys out of my sight.

 

[Lisa Hale]

I still remember being able to play out in the woods or up the hill, but am too scared to allow my boys out of my sight.

Awwww, the good ole' days! Now, that's a great memory (one that I share with you), but alas...the same thing here. I remember riding on my bike for hours and hiking up a nearby hill and through the woods to a great open field where we'd get together for hours. We'd leave home early in the day and get back just in time to wash for supper (or dinner, depending on where you are from). We also would swing from ropes into a lake and there were the odd times when someone lost a bikini top or even went skinny dipping and had their clothes hidden - but not by me!!! Would I let my kids do those things, sure...if I were with them.

Childhood is no longer the happy, carefree times we remember, if indeed they ever really were like that in reality, but I prefer to keep the dream alive.

Society has changed. Our world has changed. Childhood has changed. Even parenting has changed. We each must decide how vigilant we need to be and in what circumstances we need to kick it into a higher gear. There's no need to insinuate that anyone is negligent if they allow their toddler to go clothing optional nor is there need to insinuate that anyone is paranoid or too restrictive if they prefer to keep their kids in uniform. No, those exact words have NOT been used, but let's be honest enough to admit that there have been some very passive-aggressive insults thrown around here.

Each parent must decide the boundaries and limits they place on their own families. Someone having more or less restrictive preferences doesn't place that person above or below me on the food chain of parenting. I hope and pray that no one ever faces the harsh and cruel reality of their child being a victim of any sexual deviant - maybe not a realistic expectation, but I will continue to pray for that to the end of my days.

Do I find it offensive to see a toddler naked? Nope. Does it give me pause that I hope that there is adequate supervision to keep that child safe? Yep! I also hope the same thing every time we go to the local park and I see kids out playing (fully clothes) with no adult nearby or with an adult not paying attention. Guess I watch too much CSI, but I'd rather not live the profiled cases. Can bad things happen regardless of how careful and watchful you are? Yes, however, I would hope that careful vigilance would reduce the chances. No child deserves to be victimized, and no parent deserves to be accused of allowing victimization to their children. The situation everyone has been talking about (i.e. naked kids splashing in fountain or pool) isn't in itself negligent, just different strokes for different folks.

Now, let's all run down to the ole' watering hole and strip down to our skivvies and cool off in the water! Hmmmm....if you don't wear said skivvies, something tells me we're right back where we started from. DARN IT!

 

[OhioDisDreamer]

Were you there this past Friday? We met up with some friends (we both just happened to be in WDW and at MK the same day) Friday evening at MK and they were telling us about seeing a little boy running naked earlier that day playing in that area. It had to be the same one. I told them that just earlier that day we (myself and dd8) were at Blizzard Beach and there was a little girl about 8 or 9 in the kid area running around without a top on. I can understand that maybe from a infant or toddler but not a girl at that age. I was just shocked at what people let their kids do.

Yep, it was this past Friday at MK. You're right, it had to be the same one!

 

[sammyteach]

Do you think you would be less disturbed to find out men were looking at pictures of your child in a bathing suit? That would bother me just as much, but I'm not going to tell my little girl that she can never go swimming again
quote

Well said its all about intent, we cannot police the thoughts of ill people and i refuse to let their hang ups impinge on my family and my fun. Children should be allowed to be children and not have to worry about showing parts of their body in case it sets someone off. Parents need to sensible re real physical threats, without fightening their children and inhibiting them.

In my experience of "european" cultures children 'naturally' become more inhibited as they grow older and dont need to be taught this before time because of worries about sick individuals.

 

[PatriciaH]

The thing that kind of grosses me out about the fountains is they are reclaimed water here in Florida. (Otherwise known as pooh water-nasty runoff water-not safe for drinking.) Kids are yelling and running through those things and getting it in their mouthes. Yuck!

 

[tchrrx]

The thing that kind of grosses me out about the fountains is they are reclaimed water here in Florida. (Otherwise known as pooh water-nasty runoff water-not safe for drinking.) Kids are yelling and running through those things and getting it in their mouthes. Yuck!

Oh! Playing in poo? That's not cool!

 

[opal]

I was fortunate enough to grow up in a beach community. Naked toddlers were the norm on the beach as far back as I could remember and continued to be a regular summer sight on the beach until I married and moved away. When I go home to visit in the summer, there are still naked toddlers on the beach.

When my daughter was born, 25 years ago, we belonged to a pool club. If you turned your back on her for 2 seconds, she would strip her suit off and dash around with glee, much to the amusement of everyone near her, except her dad!!!

We were born naked. It is a natural state. It is not dirty. It is not offensive.

Those that wish to take advantage of small children will do so whether they see them naked or not. That is just a sad, tragic truth.

 

[U2_rocks!]

I was fortunate enough to grow up in a beach community. Naked toddlers were the norm on the beach as far back as I could remember and continued to be a regular summer sight on the beach until I married and moved away. When I go home to visit in the summer, there are still naked toddlers on the beach.

When my daughter was born, 25 years ago, we belonged to a pool club. If you turned your back on her for 2 seconds, she would strip her suit off and dash around with glee, much to the amusement of everyone near her, except her dad!!!

We were born naked. It is a natural state. It is not dirty. It is not offensive.

Those that wish to take advantage of small children will do so whether they see them naked or not. That is just a sad, tragic truth.

Hey, in my country there are villages I drive through every morning to take my kids to school where kids bathe naked under an outside tap! Men bathe in their underwear. It's life for many. My country is very prudish when it comes to adults and what they wear, but there's no issue with kids being naked.

 

[Jen66]

I was fortunate enough to grow up in a beach community. Naked toddlers were the norm on the beach as far back as I could remember and continued to be a regular summer sight on the beach until I married and moved away. When I go home to visit in the summer, there are still naked toddlers on the beach.

When my daughter was born, 25 years ago, we belonged to a pool club. If you turned your back on her for 2 seconds, she would strip her suit off and dash around with glee, much to the amusement of everyone near her, except her dad!!!

We were born naked. It is a natural state. It is not dirty. It is not offensive.

Those that wish to take advantage of small children will do so whether they see them naked or not. That is just a sad, tragic truth.

I agree 100%!

 

[seashoreCM]

The thing that kind of grosses me out about the fountains is they are reclaimed water here in Florida. (Otherwise known as pooh water-nasty runoff water-not safe for drinking.) Kids are yelling and running through those things and getting it in their mouthes. Yuck!

When the wind blows, the fountains may splash on people. Therefore the water must be sanitized at least as well as the water in Splash Mountain or Kali River Rapids.