my first grader's pants were pulled down today--Update page 6

[lillygator]

I would be livid....this child sounds like a definitely problem child who is disruptive to other students. She needs to be dealt with or it will just get worse as the years go on.

 

[SNylund]

If you get to the point of having to call the mother, I would threaten to sue. Say you need to control your child or I'll be seeing you in court. Probably won't do any good, the girl probably has no parents at home more or less, or parents with drug problems/alcohol etc. in any event, these types of issues are obviously due to having no parental guidance at home.

 

[Tinkerbelle's Mom]

A lot of that will change when it is YOUR 6 year old little girl. I havent' met a father yet who would laugh off his daughter naked in public by someone elses actions.

I think the issue of being pantsied in a same sex locker room is one thing - the ops dd was pantsied in line going to the cafeteria - in a mixed crowd.

The littler girl was not going for a joke - she was not playing a prank. Intent has a lot to do with this situation. The little girl intended to hurt, embarass and bully the op's dd. That is not the same situation other posters are discussing.

OP - give the school a chance. If you hear nothing then I would request a meeting with the teacher and principle. I would also talk to your dd about speaking up. It is a skill she needs to learn and can only help her in the future.

 

[Jen414]

OP--quick update. This is basically exactly what I expected would happen. The adjustment counselor talked to my daughter today who told her that J**** pulled down her pants and underwear, albeit quite briefly, using her leg. The counselor could not understand how this could possibly happen. Truthfully, it does sound a little odd, but this is what my daughter told me Friday and again today, so I'm going to believe her. She then talked with other kids who were around them in line and no one saw a thing. Then she talked with J**** who doesn't even remember anything like that even happening. So basically, nothing is going to happen, which is exactly what I expected. I then told her I do not want my daughter's around this other girl at all--they are not to play with her or speak with her. Although they have recess at the same time, they are not in the same class (or group of classes) so when one group is on the field, the other group is on the playscape and the opposite. My girls know this. When I asked when the other girl would be told about this, the adjustment counselor said that really wouldn't be the best way to go about this since barring kids from things (or people) just makes them more attractive--whatever, they're my kids and if I want to bar them from J****, then I can--and it's really negative to tell kids other kids aren't allowed to play with them. Yes, it is, but at this point I feel like this little girl is negative and I want my children to have nothing to do with her. Then I asked if her mother was going to be informed. First, she actually had the nerve to say to me, "You know I can't tell you about conversations I'm having with other parents." No kidding!!! "Yes, I know," I said. "So you're going to call me, the mother of the victim, but you can even tell me if you're going to call Megan?!!" "Yes, I'm going to call her." Great, that's what I wanted to know. So, I know a lot of you will think I should go in and make a huge fuss, but I sent a follow up email documenting the incident as well as the phone conversation. I don't want to be "that parent" either. Again, usually I am on the other side of these school incidents, and while we certainly never hold it against a child, there are certain kids who really nobody wants in their classrooms--not because of anything to do with the child, but because the parents are so difficult. Also, my husband has to have a good working relationship with all of these people. If I felt like Sofia had been scarred in any way emotionally, I would be at the principal's door tomorrow, but she seems absolutely fine.

Oh, and for what it's worth, my children and I wear bicycle helmets all the time. I start my school year off every year reading aloud "Mick Hart Was Here" by Barbara Park. It's a very powerful story told in the voice of an 8th grade girl whose 7th grade brother falls off his bike on the way home from school, hits his head (no helmet of course) and dies without a scratch on him. If anyone is looking for a quick read with a great message, I highly recommend this book. Be prepared for your voice to crack (or even for actual tears to come) if you're planning on reading this to your children. It's such a simple thing to do and really, so what if you never fall--wearing the helmet doesn't hurt, but it could certainly help.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

OP I'm so sorry things didn't go as you wanted. I commend you for your attitude, because I'm not that kind of person. I'd be raising heck big time. But that's just me -- I react instead of thinking things through.

I'm glad you don't think this has had an adverse affect on your daughter, but please, please make sure she comes to you if anything else happens. My DD was being bullied in Pre-K and she mentioned to me once or twice what happened. I spoke with the teacher show assured me she'd take care of it. The teacher did nothing. I assumed it was over, but the bullying continued the entire year. My DD would show up in the nurse's office 3-4 days a week complaining of a stomach ache. I would ask her repeatedly if anything was wrong in school, but she denied it. I even had a pediatric gastroenterologist perform an endoscopy because I thought something was seriously wrong. Only after the test (a year after the bullying began) did my daughter fess up as to what was going on.

Good luck and document everything.

 

[2bearsmom]

First, do you have children? Apparently there are those that think your opinion only matters if you do. I'm just kidding of course.

I have had this discussion with people also and we aren't all that sure that the world really is less safe. I think a lot of the things we hear about happened 20+ years ago, it was just not as easy to find out because the world was smaller and news traveled slower. For example, I don't think that more kids are molested or abused today than 20 years ago. We just know much more about what happens than we did 20 years ago. Yes, the Internet is new, but the Internet is merely a medium. The same people that troll chat rooms for children used to troll shopping malls or playgrounds. There are real dangers in the world for children, and children should be taught to be prepared and to be able to recognize them. I am in the technology field and a very common area of discussion is the difference between the real threats to children online and the ones that non tech savvy parents think the threat is, but that is a whole new threat.

I am not delusional enough to think there aren't dangers, but there is a difference between a child molester and another kid that pantses you in the hall way. There is a difference between the kid that hugs another kid in kindergarten and the adult that hugs a child in an inappropriate way. There is a difference in the positive attention of a mentor and the exploitation of trust by someone in power. If the child is prepared to critically think for themselves even a first grader can distinguish the difference.

Wow, it's like talking to my dh here! This is exactly the same thing he talks about when people bring up how much more dangerous it is today for kids, and he's right. Hello, we have 24 hr news stations that love to report that kind of stuff! Of course this stuff went on 20, 30 yrs ago etc.

I wonder if this had happend to a boy if everyone would still be so upset by it or they would think it's a boy, those things happen to them and he needs to get over it. Do people react differently when these things happen to girls? I don't know, because I have two boys, I'm just asking.

In Kindergarten my ds got spit in the face by a problem child girl in his class, we didn't get notified. My ds told me 3 hours after we had been home from school, and it was a holiday weekend. We called the principal and she told us that the teacher handled her punishment and felt she handled it in the proper manner. In first grade last year my ds got "choked" (a boy at lunch put his hands on my ds's shoulders and kind of around his neck) and he had to write a letter to my ds apologizing for what he did and he got a timeout. My ds isn't being bullied by any means, I'm not going to sue the school for any of this. I just wish parents would teach their brats to sit down, shut up, keep their hands to themselves etc while at school. Teachers have enough to do, constantly dealing with disruptive children shouldn't be one more thing on their list. Teach your kids manners before starting Kindergarten, it isn't hard. When I was in Elem school bad kids got sent to the Principal's office and got smacked on the butt with a big wooden paddle! I still remember what that paddle looked like, I remember hearing the boys getting smacked and I remember the names of the boys that were sent down there from time to time. I remember thinking, no way in hell am I going down there!

We went to open house tonight, lots of students were there. One in my ds's class kept shoving the desks together, banging them into other desks (him and his screaming little brother were doing this). The teacher had to tell him to stop! Hello? Mom, dad, do you really not care at all what your kid is doing? They should have been mortified that the teacher had to correct their kids in front of them. We tell our boys if we want them to stay away from the bad kids. At recess, my ds knows not to hang around and play with the bad kid that was in his class last year, or the ones in his class now. There is nothing wrong with telling your child (especially whent they say how bad someone is and they don't like that they act that way) to stay away from them. It's just sad that it happens, that their parents don't care enough to teach them right from wrong.

 

[momrek06]

The counselor could not understand how this could possibly happen. Truthfully, it does sound a little odd, but this is what my daughter told me Friday and again today, so I'm going to believe her. She then talked with other kids who were around them in line and no one saw a thing. Then she talked with J**** who doesn't even remember anything like that even happening.

OP, please do not take any offense to this...but is there a possibility your DD made this story up? If you are saying the counselor talked to both the students that may have witness this AND the student that actually did this to your DD and no one saw anything or remembers anything........is there a slim chance that this never even happened? I mean you even think the whole situation sounds odd!

When I was in Elem school bad kids got sent to the Principal's office and got smacked on the butt with a big wooden paddle! I still remember what that paddle looked like, I remember hearing the boys getting smacked and I remember the names of the boys that were sent down there from time to time. I remember thinking, no way in hell am I going down there!

YIKES, how long ago was this AND what state did you live in?

 

[Kimickey]

OP I just wanted to offer you (s). As a mother of a first grade boy, I cant imagine the pain you feel. I would be hurt too if my son came home to another child pulling his pants and underwear down! At this age, why are pulling down pants as a joke even a thought? Wow maybe I live in a box, but what has happened to the innocence of our little ones?

 

[Jen414]

OP, please do not take any offense to this...but is there a possibility your DD made this story up? If you are saying the counselor talked to both the students that may have witness this AND the student that actually did this to your DD and no one saw anything or remembers anything........is there a slim chance that this never even happened? I mean you even think the whole situation sounds odd!
QUOTE]


No offense taken. Could there be a possibility that she made it up? Sure, there could. However, my daughter has no reason to lie about this whatsoever. She has never lied to me before or made up a story either. Could I say with 100% certainty, though, that it happened? No, I wasn't there to witness it so I must take her word for it. I think it's important that she knows that I believe her. Also, given that it was this other child that I have had issues with before and have witnessed her misbehavior in the classroom, at birthday parties, and in the community, the probability is very high that it happened exactly the way my daughter said it did.

 

[torinsmom]

We went to open house tonight, lots of students were there. One in my ds's class kept shoving the desks together, banging them into other desks (him and his screaming little brother were doing this). The teacher had to tell him to stop! Hello? Mom, dad, do you really not care at all what your kid is doing? They should have been mortified that the teacher had to correct their kids in front of them. We tell our boys if we want them to stay away from the bad kids. At recess, my ds knows not to hang around and play with the bad kid that was in his class last year, or the ones in his class now. There is nothing wrong with telling your child (especially whent they say how bad someone is and they don't like that they act that way) to stay away from them. It's just sad that it happens, that their parents don't care enough to teach them right from wrong.

This happens all the time when we have open houses. It seems to happen with many of the "good" parents as well. I guess the parents think that since the child is in school, we should correct them. The problem is that the students act out more when parents are around and it is uncomfortable to teachers to jump in as a disciplinarian when the parent is standing right there. Our open house is before school, so I don't want to give the child a negative first experience in my classroom either.

Marsha

 

[mjkacmom]

Your child isn't traumatized, no one else saw it, and the offending child pulled down her pants/underwear with her leg? Initially, I was picturing a little girl with her pants down to her ankles. Now I'm picturing her pants coming down a few inches. Now, it does sound like this girl is a troublemaker (and she might have lovely parents, but have social issues), but I'm thinking it wasn't this huge incident. My own kids have tugged on the waist of each other's pants, causing them to come down a few inches, and have been reprimanded, and they live in a good home, 2 parents, who are here for them. Children this age sometimes make poor impulsive choices, trying to be funny. This doesn't make them terrorists, as some seem to think.

As for the PP who thinks you should threaten a lawsuit,

 

[jodifla]

Your child isn't traumatized, no one else saw it, and the offending child pulled down her pants/underwear with her leg? Initially, I was picturing a little girl with her pants down to her ankles. Now I'm picturing her pants coming down a few inches. Now, it does sound like this girl is a troublemaker (and she might have lovely parents, but have social issues), but I'm thinking it wasn't this huge incident. My own kids have tugged on the waist of each other's pants, causing them to come down a few inches, and have been reprimanded, and they live in a good home, 2 parents, who are here for them. Children this age sometimes make poor impulsive choices, trying to be funny. This doesn't make them terrorists, as some seem to think.

As for the PP who thinks you should threaten a lawsuit,

Exactly. It's always astonishing to me that parents won't let their own kids do things like go to a waterpark with friends at 16 because they don't consider them mature enough to make correct choices, but somehow, all kids should have felony labels thrown on them when they are 6 if they make poor choices and do stupid things.

School can't really do much since nobody saw this happen. And it's hard to imagine that it occurred exactly as described. How would somebody pull down someone else's pants all the way down with their leg?

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

YIKES, how long ago was this AND what state did you live in?

I don't know where the PP lives but I have relatives in Oklahoma and paddling still happens in at least one town there.

 

[Frantasmic]

A crowd of kids saying they didn't see an incident like this doesn't mean no one saw it: it just means they don't want to say they saw it, more than likely due to fear of reprisal from either a teacher or the bully who did it.

Relying on the "crowd" was an easy way out for the teacher. Instead of a she said-she said incident, it would have been a good thing to reinforce respecting people's private space (and parts), why people shouldn't pull silly stunts since unexpected things can happen, etc.

Make sure your daughter understands what happened (politics), why it happened (primarily because she didn't go straight to a teacher after it happened), so that she doesn't feel like the "bad" person in the incident and won't be a victim in the future should something like this happen again.

 

[2bearsmom]

If you are talking to me, I didn't say for anyone to sue the school, I said I wouldn't "sue the school" for any of this crap, joking around since people are so sue happy these days, talking about sexual harrassment and all.

I grew up in NW Indiana and I was in Elem school in the mid 1980's.

This happens all the time when we have open houses. It seems to happen with many of the "good" parents as well. I guess the parents think that since the child is in school, we should correct them. The problem is that the students act out more when parents are around and it is uncomfortable to teachers to jump in as a disciplinarian when the parent is standing right there. Our open house is before school, so I don't want to give the child a negative first experience in my classroom either.

Marsha

I just think open house night should be just for parents. I don't see why they feel they need to include their children in everything they do. I understand if you can't get a sitter and have to take them with you. There were at least 8 kids from my ds's class in that room and then their siblings. With all the adults and then the kids too, it makes it very hard to walk around the classroom, get to your child's desk to check it out and read what they left for us on their desk and write them a letter back. Then you have kids slamming desks into each other and screaming. It was a bit much. The parents that think the teacher should discipline their kid just because they are at the school together Amazing to me! And since the kids act out/show off because they are with their parents, another reason to leave them at home! My sister and I didn't go to open house night when we were in school.

 

[Tinkerbelle's Mom]

If you are talking to me, I didn't say for anyone to sue the school, I said I wouldn't "sue the school" for any of this crap, joking around since people are so sue happy these days, talking about sexual harrassment and all.

I grew up in NW Indiana and I was in Elem school in the mid 1980's.




I just think open house night should be just for parents. I don't see why they feel they need to include their children in everything they do. I understand if you can't get a sitter and have to take them with you. There were at least 8 kids from my ds's class in that room and then their siblings. With all the adults and then the kids too, it makes it very hard to walk around the classroom, get to your child's desk to check it out and read what they left for us on their desk and write them a letter back. Then you have kids slamming desks into each other and screaming. It was a bit much. The parents that think the teacher should discipline their kid just because they are at the school together Amazing to me! And since the kids act out/show off because they are with their parents, another reason to leave them at home! My sister and I didn't go to open house night when we were in school.

In my dds district Back to school night (held in the fall) is only for parents. Open House (held in the spring) is an event ment for families that attend the school as well as families that are thinking about coming ot the school.

 

[lillygator]

I would be willing to bet - the other kids questioned couldn't recall a thing because they don't want the wrath of the bully in question.

 

[pooh4evr]

OP,
YIKES, how long ago was this AND what state did you live in?

Kids got paddled when I was in elem school- in the 80's- and I know it still happens where my inlaws live in southern Mo - not sure about anywhere else around here though.-- there was ab controversy here a yr or so ago when the newspapers found out about padded rooms the district uses for kids who are violent out of control.

 

[Feralpeg]

Oh, and for what it's worth, my children and I wear bicycle helmets all the time. I start my school year off every year reading aloud "Mick Hart Was Here" by Barbara Park. It's a very powerful story told in the voice of an 8th grade girl whose 7th grade brother falls off his bike on the way home from school, hits his head (no helmet of course) and dies without a scratch on him. If anyone is looking for a quick read with a great message, I highly recommend this book. Be prepared for your voice to crack (or even for actual tears to come) if you're planning on reading this to your children. It's such a simple thing to do and really, so what if you never fall--wearing the helmet doesn't hurt, but it could certainly help.

I can't say enough things about that book. It makes me cry every time I read it. In fact, I had my English class read it when I was teaching. I would recommend this wonderful book to anyone no matter what age.