my first grader's pants were pulled down today--Update page 6

[Gary M]

When I was in school way back in the late '40's and '50's, kids were de-pantsed all the time. It seemed like most guys took it in stride. I don't remember the girls getting involved in this practice.

 

[FireDancer]

I agree, technology has made the population more aware of the dangers of the world. However, the world has grown by 3 billion people in approx. 30 yrs. so the risks of these encounters has grown as well. The abundance of people allows for more crimes to occur, more accidents to occur, more diagnosis of autism to occur, ect. There were many killers back in the mid 1900's just as there are killers today, but I agree the easy access of the media has made it far more easily to obtain the information. I actually just read an article about the number one threat to children right now, and it is internet predators. Why go through the trouble of strolling playgrounds and parks when perpetrators can access the children easily online.

I buy that. With more total people will come more bad people, I would think the proportions would be consistent though.

The real online dangers to children is a whole thread unto itself. The mistake that is often made about online threats is the same that was made about physical world threats when I was a kid, the whole stranger danger problem. Kids are much more likely to be abused by someone they know or an authority figure than they are a stranger both online and in real life. The same tools we were provided with so that we know how to confront these problems are the ones kids need to be smart enough to use online. Yes, it is easier to prowl online but it is also easier for the kids to evade online. Instead of having to scream and run away you can click the close button.

These are all real dangers, a pantsing is just not one of them, it only requires a little common sense to recognize that. I still maintain that pantsing is a prank, like tripping someone. Maybe not nice and of course a little scolding is needed but just like a little trip in the hall is different than throwing someone down the stairs a pantsing is different than abuse. I don't even see a sexual component in pantsing. Even if some unintended nudity happens, nudity is not the same as sexuality. I was picked on for stuff as a kid just like everyone else was, someone I managed to not kill puppies and set fires as an adolescent or adult.

It was a relatively common thing in the hall when I was a kid to walk up next to someone and slap the books out of their hands. If a teacher saw it they would say stop it and pick those up, and it would be over. It wouldn't turn into calling the parents to talk about how this made us feel and if it was an outward act signaling abuse at home. It was what it was, kids being kids.

 

[BriarRosie]

First, do you have children? Apparently there are those that think your opinion only matters if you do. I'm just kidding of course.

I have had this discussion with people also and we aren't all that sure that the world really is less safe. I think a lot of the things we hear about happened 20+ years ago, it was just not as easy to find out because the world was smaller and news traveled slower. For example, I don't think that more kids are molested or abused today than 20 years ago. We just know much more about what happens than we did 20 years ago. Yes, the Internet is new, but the Internet is merely a medium. The same people that troll chat rooms for children used to troll shopping malls or playgrounds. There are real dangers in the world for children, and children should be taught to be prepared and to be able to recognize them. I am in the technology field and a very common area of discussion is the difference between the real threats to children online and the ones that non tech savvy parents think the threat is, but that is a whole new threat.

I am not delusional enough to think there aren't dangers, but there is a difference between a child molester and another kid that pantses you in the hall way. There is a difference between the kid that hugs another kid in kindergarten and the adult that hugs a child in an inappropriate way. There is a difference in the positive attention of a mentor and the exploitation of trust by someone in power. If the child is prepared to critically think for themselves even a first grader can distinguish the difference.

I don't have kids, and I don't agree with you.

I think the OP should be upset. What that other child did was just as bad as any other physical assault, except this could have resulted in emotional abuse, too. Humiliation is never acceptable, and no, I haven't been pantsed. I learned humility by trying out for things and not making the cut. Not by losing my dignity.

I do agree that parents today don't treat kids the way we were treated years ago. But today's parents are better informed than ours were way back when. I shudder when I think of growing up in the 70s and 80s, just before we had the "click it or ticket" seat belt laws. Heck, my mom smoked like a chimney during her pregnancies. Nobody knew how bad that was back then. I think people have become more over-protective due to the influx of information.

 

[FireDancer]

I don't have kids, and I don't agree with you.

That's alright, that is the beauty of opinion, they aren't right or wrong, just different.

 

[java]

Perhaps the helmet was a bad example, I still wouldn't require one for my children, but I would respect your decision to have your kids wear them. I am 100% for the liberty to decide what is best for you. My brother doesn't require my nephew to wear a helmet and only one of my friends with kids require theirs to wear one.

I attended a funeral for my friends 12 year old daughter this summer. She died in a skiing accident. And she wasn't wearing a helmet. Would the helmet have saved her life? Probably not. But I know that incident has made me change to make my kids wear helmets when they ski(they do wear them biking) Trust me when you have kids you won't want to "take a chance".

Now I had plenty of things happen to me in Catholic School that would be considered sexual harassment now. I am not scarred because they weren't then. It sounds like the op's person is just a bully.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I never heard of the terms, "pantsed" or "pantsing".

When I was a kid if someone did that and got caught, there were consequences. Kids back then didn't get a free pass on pranks. Adults didn't just sit back and say, "Oh, that's just kids being kids.". They got reprimanded, disciplined, whatever you want to call it. The school would enforce rules and the parents would also when the kid got home.

That's a change in today's world. "The kids being kids", saying didn't wipe the slate clean like it does sometimes today.

I don't see the changes of today as being "coddling". New information is a good thing. When I was growing up sunscreen wasn't a big thing. Now it is and for good reason.

 

[metime]

Being pantsed is sexual harrasment by any definition. If someone did this to you at your place of work you would no doubt have a sexual harrassment case. Just because it was done to a child by a child does not make it any less of an issue.

The girl was publicly completely revealed below the waist by force. It is humiliating and should not be discounted because it was a child, in fact I would make more of a deal because it is a child who cannot possibly have the ability to process what happened in a healthy way. This little girl has lost some dignity and will be fearful at school for a very long time.

I am amazed that people think having you pants pulled down in front of others is not sexual harrasment.

 

[metime]

Nope, no kids. I was however a kid and I was pantsed on multiple occasions. Somehow I managed to grow to be a productive member of society despite the horrible abuse I sufferd.

As far as helmets go, I was also a kid and not one single solitary person I grew up with wore one. Not one. Yet somehow we all manged to grow to be adults. The human species didn't cease to exists in the late 80's because we didn't wear helmets. Our family did weekly outings to the local parks and road the trails helmet-less. My parents and brothers included, yet we are all still breathing. I cycle often and of course when I'm on the roads doing 30 or 40 miles an hour on the road bike training I wear one. I don't if I am on my slower bikes and not on main roads.

That was just the example I used to go along with the whole over reaction by adults in society. I'm not that old, I didn't grow up in the 50's but we were allowed to be kids. We were allowed to do childish pranks, like pantsing someone, without it turning into parent conference time. We were allowed out after dark and on our own, provided it wasn't a school night. When we played sports there were winners and losers, only the winners got the trophy. We weren't cottled and taught that everyone is a winner. No, there are also losers. That is how life is. The guy (or lady) that hits their goals at work are not treated the same, normally, as the other guy that never meets quotas. There are winners and losers in the real world.

It is just a general trend I see with not allowing kids to actually go out and discover the world and themselves on their own. Being embarrassed from time to time is good, it teaches you humility. It is part of like like being hurt, being disappointed, being let down. Learning to deal with those things are just as important as learning to deal with happiness, joy, and accomplishment. It is merely my opinion, it is neither right nor wrong, as opinions go.

I have to say that you are lucky. When I was growing up people didn't wear helmets either but my cousin paid that price. He was 12 and was riding his bike and flipped off after hitting a rock or something (they never saw what caused it) He is now incapable of much and this is just from the head injury. I guess he is lucky to be alive and be able to walk but he can't have a conversation and will have to be cared for for the rest of his life.

I know plenty of people who don't wear seat belts but it doesn't mean that it wouldn't protect them. There weren't even car seats a while back and while most people fared alright it doesn't mean that parents who use them are being overprotective.

Doctors used to not bother to wash their hands ever and while not everyone ended up dying of infection I don't think it is overprotective to expect hand washing with medical procedures.

Just because you and your family have not sustained a major head injury while riding bikes does not make you a case study in the safety of helmets.

 

[torinsmom]

In many cities, it is against the law for a child under 12 to ride a bike without a helmet. I don't think anyone is "coddling" their child by making them wear something that can keep them from dying or being brain damaged. My poor son never got any Heelies because I thought those were an accident waiting to happen. For me, wheels with no seat belt=helmet.

Seat belts and car seats are another area where there is no gray for me. They save lives, and just because we didn't have to wear them when we were kids doesn't mean we shouldn't make our kids. I lost 2 friends as a child in car accidents. Both were head injuries, where the kids' heads hit the dashboard. They would most likely be alive today if they were in seat belts.

As far as the "pantsing", I think it is different from regular bullying. Exposing someone else is just WRONG. It's bad enough to expose yourself, you know? If we were talking about 3-4 year olds, I would feel a little differently, but a 6-7 year old is old enough to know what he/she is doing.

Marsha

 

[Ilike2Lurk]

Perhaps the helmet was a bad example, I still wouldn't require one for my children, but I would respect your decision to have your kids wear them. I am 100% for the liberty to decide what is best for you. My brother doesn't require my nephew to wear a helmet and only one of my friends with kids require theirs to wear one. .

How sad and unusual that you are surrounded by so many people that don't care about the safety/well-being of their children

Head injuries are so serious. What else is there to say?

 

[Snow_White]

To the OP, I am so sorry for your little girl That is just plain horrible

Truthfully, I am HORRIFIED that some of the supposed "adults" on this board are so blasé about something so blatantly wrong and utterly hurtful. I cringe to think of my child going to school with other children who have parents with that type of attitude.

 

[bushdianee]

I can see where an adult may not have seen what happened as in my experiences there are usually only a few adults in a crowded cafeteria, and they are usually busy helping students with milk cartons, silverware, cleaning tables etc. for the next group. However I know that even if a child in my first grade class didn't report something like this that happened to them. several others would tell me as soon as I picked them up from recess. I always stress to my students that there is a difference between tattling and reporting and that things that bother them should always be reported to adults.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

WOW! I can't believe how many people here I saying this happened all the time when they were growing up. REALLY? Kids had their pants pulled down, underwear and all??

I don't know what rock I have been living under all these years, but I have never heard of anything like that happening in the schools that I went to, and I definitley was never a witness to it.

Now, I DO remember my 1st grade teacher calling a boy to the front of the room, pulling his pants down to his bare bum, and whacking him with a ruler as we all watched. I have never forgotten that. She was pretty old, and didn't lose her job, so I am thinking it must have been before corporal punishment became illegal.

 

[OceanAnnie]

WOW! I can't believe how many people here I saying this happened all the time when they were growing up. REALLY? Kids had their pants pulled down, underwear and all??

I don't know what rock I have been living under all these years, but I have never heard of anything like that happening in the schools that I went to, and I definitley was never a witness to it.

Now, I DO remember my 1st grade teacher calling a boy to the front of the room, pulling his pants down to his bare bum, and whacking him with a ruler as we all watched. I have never forgotten that. She was pretty old, and didn't lose her job, so I am thinking it must have been before corporal punishment became illegal.

I know! Me either. I've seen older students get wedgies, and students attempting to pull down another student's outer pants (they were usually stopped by the recipient) but never underwear and all. It is a big deal to me.

When I was growing up, there weren't as many "school rules". Teachers had authority in the classroom and they ran a tight ship. Sometimes I think people tend to romanticize the old days. I never saw teachers or parents turning a blind eye to atrocious behavior. Kids might not have always gotten caught, but they knew right from wrong.

 

[Ilike2Lurk]

To the OP, I am so sorry for your little girl That is just plain horrible

Truthfully, I am HORRIFIED that some of the supposed "adults" on this board are so blasé about something so blatantly wrong and utterly hurtful. I cringe to think of my child going to school with other children who have parents with that type of attitude.

You said it perfectly

 

[OceanAnnie]

You said it perfectly

Agreed.

 

[goofy4tink]

So now being pantsed is sexual harassment

This happened many a time growing up, it was just something that kids did. Someone pantsed someone else at or end of year softball party a month ago. When I was in school it was mostly a boy thing. It would get a scolding and nothing more.

There is a difference between inappropriateness and kids being kids. I'd chalk this up with making kids wear helmets every time they ride their bike, being over protective.

Just my opinion.

That is irrelevant. Seeing as I was a child I know what it was like. I wouldn't change anything, including the embarrassing things that happened, they all shape you into what you become. Someone I manged to grow to be a functional, tax paying, college educated, employed member of society.



Either way. The former was probably the intention, the later the result. Just kids being kids. If anyone of any age complained to me about being pantsed I'd say suck it up, it isn't going to kill you.

While I agree with you up to a point, I can't agree 100%. I grew up driving, and riding in a car, without seatbelts. So..is it overprotective that we now have them? Don't think so. I also grew up riding my bike, for miles every day, without a helmet. And I also grew up to be an adult with no lasting issues.
I was also bullied, teased, and other such fun childhood pasttimes as well. And while I did manage to grow up to be a contributing member of society, as well as a darn good parent, it is not something that I think should be okayed by adults. It made me miserable, I am still too shy for my own good, and I still try to blend in so as to not be the center of attention in most situations. Why?? All that 'childish behaviour' I was dealt. Not so harmless.

Pantsing??? So not called for. So not 'kids being kids'. In some schools, more than I like to think about, if a 1st grader hugs another 1st grader, of the opposite sex, or kisses them...parents yell sexual harrassement. And it holds up!!! Sad but true.

A child who has been embarrassed and mortified, as well as scared by having her pants pulled down deserves to be stood up for. No child, and I don't care what baggage they have, should be allowed to behave that way towards another child...period. Would it be appropriate if it happened to an adult??? It's the same good ole boy mentality of 'boys being boys'. Sorry, doesn't hold water.

Causing a ruckus, and going to bat for a child that has been 'pantsed' is not coddling them. It is teaching them to stand up for themselves. No one said the other little girl should be thrown out of school. But perhaps it might get her some help..through the school system. It would seem that her family isn't doing much to help her. And believe me....she isn't going to suddenly get better!!! She may only escalate....we have all heard horrific stories of the things that go on with kids in schools now.

To the OP...I really hope your dd manages to move on, it seems that she is. She should always feel safe and secure enough to go to you with anything. I can't imagine many 1st graders who would be all that comfortable going to a teacher, especially this early in the year, with something like that. Poor kid. She did go to you. You can go to the school and settle this with them. Someone needs to deal with that other little girl...for her own good.

 

[a1tinkfans]

Nope, no kids. I was however a kid and I was pantsed on multiple occasions. Somehow I managed to grow to be a productive member of society despite the horrible abuse I sufferd.

As far as helmets go, I was also a kid and not one single solitary person I grew up with wore one. Not one. Yet somehow we all manged to grow to be adults. The human species didn't cease to exists in the late 80's because we didn't wear helmets. Our family did weekly outings to the local parks and road the trails helmet-less. My parents and brothers included, yet we are all still breathing. I cycle often and of course when I'm on the roads doing 30 or 40 miles an hour on the road bike training I wear one. I don't if I am on my slower bikes and not on main roads.

That was just the example I used to go along with the whole over reaction by adults in society. I'm not that old, I didn't grow up in the 50's but we were allowed to be kids. We were allowed to do childish pranks, like pantsing someone, without it turning into parent conference time. We were allowed out after dark and on our own, provided it wasn't a school night. When we played sports there were winners and losers, only the winners got the trophy. We weren't cottled and taught that everyone is a winner. No, there are also losers. That is how life is. The guy (or lady) that hits their goals at work are not treated the same, normally, as the other guy that never meets quotas. There are winners and losers in the real world.

It is just a general trend I see with not allowing kids to actually go out and discover the world and themselves on their own. Being embarrassed from time to time is good, it teaches you humility. It is part of like like being hurt, being disappointed, being let down. Learning to deal with those things are just as important as learning to deal with happiness, joy, and accomplishment. It is merely my opinion, it is neither right nor wrong, as opinions go.

Tell me how you'll feel when your precious daughter comes home from First grade and tells you that someone exposed her private parts in a school setting? I have a VERY strong suspicion your "tune" will change. Thats what happens when you actually experience parenthood, You tend to get more protective of your own Same way we each think our kid is just the greatest,
We're just seeing it from a different perspective.........Life happens, I agree, BULLYING is not "life happening" IMHO.
Regarding bike helmets: As a person that deals with Injuries and Claims as a profession, I can honestly say, bicycle accidents can be horrific...severe head injuries, coma and death included......thousands of pounds versus hundreds is no comparison. By us, it is also the law to wear one. Not worth the risk of not wearing one.

 

[alexandria674]

( I don't have kids so I guess my opinion will be without much consideration. jk just jk)

I was reading this and felt so bad for your daughter. I read your first post and that you had asked that your daughters not be in the class with the other girl and that it was ignored.This little girl was the one who left a welt on one of your daughter's back? I am sorry, but that is outrageous! I think you need to go to the school and have a little talk with the principal to get your daughters or the other child out of that class.

Bullying is not ok in any shape or form and I think it needs to be dealt with.

 

[Jen414]

( I don't have kids so I guess my opinion will be without much consideration. jk just jk)

I was reading this and felt so bad for your daughter. I read your first post and that you had asked that your daughters not be in the class with the other girl and that it was ignored.This little girl was the one who left a welt on one of your daughter's back? I am sorry, but that is outrageous! I think you need to go to the school and have a little talk with the principal to get your daughters or the other child out of that class.

Bullying is not ok in any shape or form and I think it needs to be dealt with.

No, neither of my girls (they're twins) are in J***'s class. They honored that request. I split my own girls up this year; the teacher--and probably their classmates--could not tell them apart. I asked for them to be separated from this girl and they were. However, all the first grade classes have lunch and recess together, so that's when they see her now. I have talked to the principal and will give him a chance to do something on Monday. I'll give an update after I hear from him.