Multi-Site POS Revision Dated 01/19/19

[skier_pete]

I have just read all 33 pages of this. I am totally new to DVC and was ready to sign on Riviera even knowing the resale restrictions. HOWEVER, I got all the paperwork and it all seemed too fishy. Too vague in areas and it also made me skeptical of how they could have a "Club" and take away rights guaranteed in the original 14 contracts. It was sketchy enough for me to find and look up disboards on my own, unprompted and with no prior knowledge. If it stood out as problematic to me as a first time uninformed buyer, it will absolutely stand out to other first time buyers as well.

I now have concerns on what I could be buying into with Riviera and what they may or may not decide to change at any time within the "Club" and for all members. Will Riviera stay part of this "Club"? Will they decide they have to move Riviera to a new "Club" in order to uphold the terms of the original 14 resort contracts? As a potential direct Riviera buyer, I wouldn't plan to resell but it's always nice to have a backup knowing you could get part of the money back. With the new resales restrictions though, Riviera resales are penalized even more than resales of the original 14. People will not want to buy direct into the only resort that states resale is restricted to home resort. In my eyes, the new resale restrictions have hurt their credibility and have made me decide not to buy into Riviera at this time. Many new buyers will be concerned of the same. If they lifted the resale restrictions tomorrow and showed good faith toward the original 14 resort contracts terms, I would absolutely buy into Riviera.

My suggestion is to please let them know this. If they know that the decisions are having a negative impact on sales - if they lose enough customers, they may go back on this plan.

Even if they make no future changes they have diluted the product, at least in the long term. Let's say in 20 years, 50% of the owners that bought at Riviera originally have sold. That makes 50% of the population of that resort can ONLY book at their home resort. They will all be scrambling to book at 11 months. The 50% of direct owners will be "stuck" competing with these people for their own resort - and when they can't get the room they want, will be forced to try and find something at 7 months. Yes, there will always be something available, but if you are a direct buyer that wants to stay in studios, you will likely feel this pain eventually.

And yes, we really don't know how resale pricing will be affected by this decision, but it definitely will have a negative impact. This is a personal statement - but unless Riviera was absolutely my very favorite resort ever (doubtful) I would not want to buy there unless the price was very, very low. The problem being the point basis for the resort - owning there and being forced to only stay there means I have to be sure to buy enough points to be able to afford enough nights there. If I own at say AKV - I can stay for roughly 5 points per night less at AKV (comparing Standard/Savannah to DRR's Standard/Preferred). So I would need to own an extra 35 points just to stay for a week at Riviera. And now I'm LOCKED into Riviera. So I buy lets say 140 pts at AKV for $110 a point, and I can stay for a week at AKV in a Savannah view anytime I want, but also can still stay at BLT, or Poly, or BWV or whatever. OR - I buy 175 pts at Riviera and ONLY stay at Riviera. What price would those Riviera points have to be at for more to consider that buy to be of value. Not $110 a point! An equivalent would be $90 per point, so realistically, for me to consider a DRR resale buy even remotely, I would have to look at a sub-$80 price point to attract me. (Based on the current market.)

Now I am not saying that is the price it will settle at. There WILL be people that will want Riviera resale at a price point above that. The location and the resort will appeal to many. And initially as long as Disney is selling the resort, they will prop up the resale price using ROFR.

 

[OUjenny21]

My suggestion is to please let them know this. If they know that the decisions are having a negative impact on sales - if they lose enough customers, they may go back on this plan.

Even if they make no future changes they have diluted the product, at least in the long term. Let's say in 20 years, 50% of the owners that bought at Riviera originally have sold. That makes 50% of the population of that resort can ONLY book at their home resort. They will all be scrambling to book at 11 months. The 50% of direct owners will be "stuck" competing with these people for their own resort - and when they can't get the room they want, will be forced to try and find something at 7 months. Yes, there will always be something available, but if you are a direct buyer that wants to stay in studios, you will likely feel this pain eventually.

And yes, we really don't know how resale pricing will be affected by this decision, but it definitely will have a negative impact. This is a personal statement - but unless Riviera was absolutely my very favorite resort ever (doubtful) I would not want to buy there unless the price was very, very low. The problem being the point basis for the resort - owning there and being forced to only stay there means I have to be sure to buy enough points to be able to afford enough nights there. If I own at say AKV - I can stay for roughly 5 points per night less at AKV (comparing Standard/Savannah to DRR's Standard/Preferred). So I would need to own an extra 35 points just to stay for a week at Riviera. And now I'm LOCKED into Riviera. So I buy lets say 140 pts at AKV for $110 a point, and I can stay for a week at AKV in a Savannah view anytime I want, but also can still stay at BLT, or Poly, or BWV or whatever. OR - I buy 175 pts at Riviera and ONLY stay at Riviera. What price would those Riviera points have to be at for more to consider that buy to be of value. Not $110 a point! An equivalent would be $90 per point, so realistically, for me to consider a DRR resale buy even remotely, I would have to look at a sub-$80 price point to attract me. (Based on the current market.)

Now I am not saying that is the price it will settle at. There WILL be people that will want Riviera resale at a price point above that. The location and the resort will appeal to many. And initially as long as Disney is selling the resort, they will prop up the resale price using ROFR.

When I received my contract on Thursday, I called my guide and told him I had some reservations on the contract after reading. He had someone in quality assurance call me on Friday and I was told the resales restrictions were trying to dissuade others from buying resale. I told him it felt like I was being penalized as a direct Riviera buyer versus even another direct resort. My plan is to call back Monday and let him know I won’t be purchasing because of all the uncertainty around the legality of this and what it means for the future of what I may be purchasing with regard to verbiage in this contract. It feels sneaky with what was done to the original 14 resorts and I’ve lost confidence in what they are selling.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

I have just read all 33 pages of this. I am totally new to DVC and was ready to sign on Riviera even knowing the resale restrictions. HOWEVER, I got all the paperwork and it all seemed too fishy. Too vague in areas and it also made me skeptical of how they could have a "Club" and take away rights guaranteed in the original 14 contracts. It was sketchy enough for me to find and look up disboards on my own, unprompted and with no prior knowledge. If it stood out as problematic to me as a first time uninformed buyer, it will absolutely stand out to other first time buyers as well.

I now have concerns on what I could be buying into with Riviera and what they may or may not decide to change at any time within the "Club" and for all members. Will Riviera stay part of this "Club"? Will they decide they have to move Riviera to a new "Club" in order to uphold the terms of the original 14 resort contracts? As a potential direct Riviera buyer, I wouldn't plan to resell but it's always nice to have a backup knowing you could get part of the money back. With the new resales restrictions though, Riviera resales are penalized even more than resales of the original 14. People will not want to buy direct into the only resort that states resale is restricted to home resort. In my eyes, the new resale restrictions have hurt their credibility and have made me decide not to buy into Riviera at this time. Many new buyers will be concerned of the same. If they lifted the resale restrictions tomorrow and showed good faith toward the original 14 resort contracts terms, I would absolutely buy into Riviera.

I would say two things:
1) the core product remains good. You will have great vacations with your family in very nice accommodations. We own at VGF and we have a great experience every time we are there.
2) Disney has interpreted the contracts in a way so that the value can erode over time. This will not impact your family’s enjoyment too much, except that you may find that you no longer have enough points for a studio or one bedroom, and you have to either buy more points, or cut days off your vacation. Also, the resale value can erode over time, as Disney retains the right to basically rewrite the contracts and keep more of the resale value for themselves. If you see something in the contract that troubles you, assume that Disney will implement that section in a way that is not in your interest. When I was buying, I read the section on the lockoff premium, and when I inquired, people told me “it reads like they can raise the points price for Studios and One Bedrooms at will, but they never have done this”. Within four years of our purchase, they exercised this section of the contract to greatly inflate the prices of the 1BR and Studios, with no corresponding reduction elsewhere. After the peasants were stocking up on torches and pitchforks and headed for the castle, they rolled back the points chart, but they have said they did nothing wrong and will likely do it again. It is very irritating that the brand promises are not being kept, but chances are your family will not notice too much.

I would not say don’t buy. I am not selling my points. But go in with your eyes open.

 

[Frederic Civish]

I would like to suggest this thread and similar threads be moved to their own separate Forum where all of these legal questions and concerns about Disney could be kept together. It could be called “Contracts, Legal Questions and Disney.” Or something similar.

One reason to move things into a separate forum is just to keep all of the legal things together so that it would be easier to see how they tie into each other. I don't think the goal should in any way be to encourage or push for legal challenges to Disney. Those will or will not happen, whether these are all in their own separate Forum or not. But I think from an informational point of view it would be nice to keep them together. In addition if Disney could have everything together in one place so they could see all of the concerns that people have and not have to look all over for those concerns then they might be more inclined to pay attention to the concerns.

 

[ljmiii]

When I received my contract on Thursday, I called my guide and told him I had some reservations on the contract after reading. He had someone in quality assurance call me on Friday and I was told the resales restrictions were trying to dissuade others from buying resale. I told him it felt like I was being penalized as a direct Riviera buyer versus even another direct resort...

I honestly don't know what to suggest at this point. For you or me. The one piece of advice I can mostly get behind is to wait until you ride the gondolas and see the resort in person. Someone recently posted the history of direct prices and incentives at CCV in one of the Riviera forums and the price wasn't a straightforward upward arc. And perhaps by the beginning of next year we'll have a better understanding of what is going to happen regarding resale restrictions. Other than that...and since you do want the perks (eg AP discount)...you could...

Buy 75 pts direct at one of the original 14 giving you guaranteed access to those resorts...
Poly - $235/pt with a 2066 RTU. Easiest to use with your resale poly points but very expensive.
OKW - $156/pt with a 2057 RTU. Easiest to get back to back reservations at OKW at 7 months w/your Poly pts. Or you could split stay.
VBR - $100/pt with a 2042 RTU. Only if you are quite flexible in when you want to goto WDW...and are happy with OKW or SSR.

Or if you know you want to stay *at Riviera* (and/or the new resorts) for the next 20 or so years...
Buy 75 pts at Riviera @ $188/pt minus incentives

Or you could just wait until a 'better' resort (DVC Yacht Club, BCV 2, EPCOT, etc.) rolls around.

Lastly, you could buy the minimum guaranteed week at Riviera - 120 points. You'll be passing up the incentives but will have something that is more likely to hold it's value. Which is something you might want to do sooner rather than later as they will sell out.

 

[LAX]

I have just read all 33 pages of this. I am totally new to DVC and was ready to sign on Riviera even knowing the resale restrictions. HOWEVER, I got all the paperwork and it all seemed too fishy. Too vague in areas and it also made me skeptical of how they could have a "Club" and take away rights guaranteed in the original 14 contracts. It was sketchy enough for me to find and look up disboards on my own, unprompted and with no prior knowledge. If it stood out as problematic to me as a first time uninformed buyer, it will absolutely stand out to other first time buyers as well.

I now have concerns on what I could be buying into with Riviera and what they may or may not decide to change at any time within the "Club" and for all members. Will Riviera stay part of this "Club"? Will they decide they have to move Riviera to a new "Club" in order to uphold the terms of the original 14 resort contracts? As a potential direct Riviera buyer, I wouldn't plan to resell but it's always nice to have a backup knowing you could get part of the money back. With the new resales restrictions though, Riviera resales are penalized even more than resales of the original 14. People will not want to buy direct into the only resort that states resale is restricted to home resort. In my eyes, the new resale restrictions have hurt their credibility and have made me decide not to buy into Riviera at this time. Many new buyers will be concerned of the same. If they lifted the resale restrictions tomorrow and showed good faith toward the original 14 resort contracts terms, I would absolutely buy into Riviera.

Unfortunately, many new DVC buyers don't do the due diligence that you have done and I won't be surprised if some end up regretting their purchase. I think the general consensus is that DVC is now moving towards the direction of other timeshares (with the exception that many of its resorts are near theme parks that many people enjoy visiting). I think if your experience somehow get into more mainstream media (no offense, but DIS is a relatively small community), perhaps others will notice and at least prompt them to do their own due diligence even if it doesn't derail their purchase.

While the recent rather drastic changes don't really have a direct impact on me (yet), I am more concerned about the trend/direction the current management is going (pretty much nothing matters except for profit). There has been lots of negative changes in the last couple of months even though one was ultimately rolled back for now (the 2020 point chart fiasco--take a look at the dedicated thread if you haven't).

LAX

 

[katandmouse]

I'm not saying they changed our agreement in fact I've argued the opposite they BVTC may now in violation with our agreement with them (that new resort's resort agreements be substantially similar to ours, though this is a weak may, IMO). What I was arguing is that they didn't take any deeded rights away; however, BVTC might be in violation of our contracts only based on the requirement that new resorts be substantially similar to ours. Essentially I'm saying any suit would be against BVTC since they admitted (without approval of DVCMC as dictated by our Resort Agreements) into the Club a resort who wasn't substantially similar to ours. And the outcome of such a suit may lead to Riviera being removed or the other resorts being removed. Either of which BVTC has the right to do per our Resort Agreements. I would lean towards Disney closing to be a bit more hardline on this issue because they were laying the ground work for a while.

Working off the Multi-Site POS that I have from November 2017:

§III.1.b states "Membership in the Club is an appurtenance to each Ownership Interest in accordance with the terms of the applicable DVC Resort Documents and DVC Resort Agreements" - This doesn't define the access to the DVC Reservation Component only states that Club Membership, as defined in the Resort Documents and Resort Agreement, can't be removed from the Deed, which currently DVC has argued they aren't doing.

§III.2.b states "Club Member's rights to reserve Vacation Homes at DVC Resorts through the DVC Reservation Component are set forth in the DVC Resort Agreement for each DVC Resort and in the Disclosure Document" - This is the section that tells us how the DVC Reservation Component works and what our rights as club members are. Focusing First on the Disclosure Document

BVTC Disclosure Document:

II states "This Disclosure Document is provided for the purpose of explaining the reservation rights afforded to Club Members through the DVC Reservation Component. Club Members may only access DVC Resorts, other than their Home Resort, through participation in the DVC Reservation Component in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Disclosure Document." - So this states that the Disclosure Document is the governing body of how the DVC Reservation Component works.

III.1 states "Since availability of the DVC Reservation Component is part of the services offered through the Club, membership in the Club is necessary for a person to access and use the DVC Reservation Component. Membership in the club is an appurtenance to all Ownership Interests at DVC Resorts..." - This is not saying the Club Membership is guaranteed access to the DVC Reservation Component. So looking for that in

IV.1 states "A Club Member may voluntarily participate in the DVC Reservation Component to reserve available Vacation Homes in DVC Resorts other than their Home Resort." - This is finally where it says as a Club Member you have the right to book at other resorts than your own. However, as noted this right isn't attached to your Deed but is a right that was granted to Club Membership.

Now can they amend the BVTC Disclosure Document:

The Multi-Site POS states in §III.2.b "BVTC, in its sole, absolute and unfettered discretion, may change the terms and conditions of the Disclosure Document. These changes may affect a Club Member' right to use, exchange and rent the Club Member's Ownership Interest and may impose obligations upon the use and enjoyment of the Ownership Interest and the appurtenant Club Membership" - So BVTC can absolutely modify it in particular that modification could effect your right to "exchange" your Ownership Interest, this is precisely what Disney has done.

So what changes did they make to the BVTC Disclosure Document (which they maintained the right to amend and remember they don't have a fiduciary responsibility to us)

III.1 now states "....membership in the Club is not a guarantee of access to the DVC Reservation Component as set forth in the DVC Resort Agreement and this Disclosure Guide"

III.3 was updated to add all the restrictions were added and you can review the documents attached for this restrictions.

So all in all I think they modified the BVTC Disclosure Document properly, a right BVTC maintained, to allow them to say the access to the DVC Reservation Component isn't guaranteed as a club member. And BVTC isn't a fiduciary so has no responsibility to act in our best Interest. Now what about DVCMC who is a fiduciary are they in violation, no, because according to our Resort Agreements BVTC in it's own discretion (independent of ours) reserves the right to associate any new resorts as long as it is substantially similar to ours. So my point made earlier is that DVCMC in theory should be suing on our behalf to void our contracts with BVTC, but is that what most club members would actually want or would they want Riviera removed or our Resort Agreements modified.

Now as for modifying the Resort Agreements CCV has added language to specifically allow this in Exhibit G Section 10.3 "BVTC, in its discretion, may change the terms and conditions of this Agreement and the Disclosure Document." - This specifically grants them rights to change the Resort Agreement and reaffirms the right to change the Disclosure Document, which they already defined in the Multi-Site POS and Disclosure Document, which our Resort Agreement was subject to. So for CCV at least they were allowed to do what they wanted. As for the other resorts can they I'm not sure since 10.3 doesn't exist in those and haven't skimmed through the POS completely but I suspect there is language in their somewhere that says they might. Also they may not need to if Riviera is "substantially similar" now that they separated the access to the Reservation Component from the Club Membership in the Disclosure Document. But the substantially similar part is still the issue I find concerning, but I suspect members would likely not win this battle since Disney seems to have prepared itself fully for this, by removing DVCMC's say in any changes thus removing the fiduciary protection.

To be honest I can't see in any of the Resort Agreements where they state the right of the DVC Reservation Component is dictated directly in it. Though it does have the following language to suggest the groundwork for what they did

5.1 ".....DVC Reservation Component shall be made in accordance with this Agreement and the Disclosure Document as promulgated or amended from time to time by BVTC."
6.2.d "BVTC does not anticipate that the rules and regulations governing reservations among the DVC Resorts will be affected by adding additional resorts as DVC Resorts. However, BVTC has reserved the right to amend the Disclosure Document..." Again they have reaffirmed their right to do so merely stating they didn't anticipate they would which is a far cry from saying they wouldn't.

Both of the above two section existed in the Resort Agreements all the way back to the Boardwalk Villas (being the second. I suspect that OKW is slightly different having been the first resort and was a bit more difficult to follow since it said DVD would be the one responsible for trading, so I assume it might have an Resort Agreement executed at some point with BVTC).

All in all I think an argument with Disney would be a goodwill argument as best and I think the legal arguments are much harder to win than the 2020 Point Reallocation. At least on that part you had the overarching fiduciary obligation to give weight to the argument the Members didn't want it and it wasn't in their best interest. Here you can't rely on that because all changes were reserved to be made by BVTC without input by DVCMC. And overall I think the changes were done in the confines of what was legal but was shady that is for sure.

I have just read all 33 pages of this. I am totally new to DVC and was ready to sign on Riviera even knowing the resale restrictions. HOWEVER, I got all the paperwork and it all seemed too fishy. Too vague in areas and it also made me skeptical of how they could have a "Club" and take away rights guaranteed in the original 14 contracts. It was sketchy enough for me to find and look up disboards on my own, unprompted and with no prior knowledge. If it stood out as problematic to me as a first time uninformed buyer, it will absolutely stand out to other first time buyers as well.

I now have concerns on what I could be buying into with Riviera and what they may or may not decide to change at any time within the "Club" and for all members. Will Riviera stay part of this "Club"? Will they decide they have to move Riviera to a new "Club" in order to uphold the terms of the original 14 resort contracts? As a potential direct Riviera buyer, I wouldn't plan to resell but it's always nice to have a backup knowing you could get part of the money back. With the new resales restrictions though, Riviera resales are penalized even more than resales of the original 14. People will not want to buy direct into the only resort that states resale is restricted to home resort. In my eyes, the new resale restrictions have hurt their credibility and have made me decide not to buy into Riviera at this time. Many new buyers will be concerned of the same. If they lifted the resale restrictions tomorrow and showed good faith toward the original 14 resort contracts terms, I would absolutely buy into Riviera.

I have been trying to follow all the recent changes and have similar concerns. We are not interested in Riviera, but we are buying BCV resale, and it seems like they didn’t just change the Riviera terms, they also altered the O14 contracts/agreements when they amended the BVTC agreement. I don’t understand what they mean by “Membership in the Club is an appurtenance to each Ownership Interest” but that “membership in the Club is not a guarantee of access to the DVC Reservation Component.” So then what exactly is Club membership? I had thought that Club membership only meant the ability to trade into other DVC resorts (via the Reservation Component). But the new contract language negates that guarantee. So doesn’t that make “club membership” meaningless? And thus alter the guarantees/rights of the original contracts?

 

[Spartan86]

I have been trying to follow all the recent changes and have similar concerns. We are not interested in Riviera, but we are buying BCV resale, and it seems like they didn’t just change the Riviera terms, they also altered the O14 contracts/agreements when they amended the BVTC agreement. I don’t understand what they mean by “Membership in the Club is an appurtenance to each Ownership Interest” but that “membership in the Club is not a guarantee of access to the DVC Reservation Component.” So then what exactly is Club membership? I had thought that Club membership only meant the ability to trade into other DVC resorts (via the Reservation Component). But the new contract language negates that guarantee. So doesn’t that make “club membership” meaningless? And thus alter the guarantees/rights of the original contracts?

Well “The Club” operates the central reservation system which includes both home resort and other resort reservations (DVC Reservation Component). So I guess it basically says that having an ownership interest at a DVC resort independent of “Club” membership is impossible - The Club is how you reserve a room. I’m pretty sure the “does not guarantee access to the DVC reservation component” isn’t new language. The bigger beef is that the restrictions written into the DRR resort agreement aren’t passing the sniff test of “substantially similar” requirement for new DVC resorts.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Well “The Club” operates the central reservation system which includes both home resort and other resort reservations (DVC Reservation Component). So I guess it basically says that having an ownership interest at a DVC resort independent of “Club” membership is impossible - The Club is how you reserve a room. I’m pretty sure the “does not guarantee access to the DVC reservation component” isn’t new language. The bigger beef is that the restrictions written into the DRR resort agreement aren’t passing the sniff test of “substantially similar” requirement for new DVC resorts.

My documents indicate a distinction. DVC operates the home reservation component. BVTC operates the DVC inter resort booking. (Ie - the Club bookings)

 

[Spartan86]

My documents indicate a distinction. DVC operates the home reservation component. BVTC operates the DVC inter resort booking. (Ie - the Club bookings)

My SSR site POS and DVC resort agreement both define Club the same - “....among other things, the operation of a central reservation system consisting of the reservation component for the Vacation Ownership Plan and the DVC Reservation Component”. But also via the same agreement it retains BVTC to “perform services and coordinate activities associated with the agreement” which as you say is the administration of the DVC Reservation Component.

I’m by no means arguing with you, just fleshing out why an ownership interest has to be tied to “The Club”.

 

[ljmiii]

post deleted

 

[crvetter]

requirement that BVTC only accept DVC resorts with "substantially similar"

It isn't substantially similar POSs that are required. It is specific that it is substantially similar DVC Resort Agreements which is more often than not exhibit G or H of the documents recorded on the OCC for each resort. The reason it is specifically the DVC Resort Agreement is that is the place (along with the BVTC Disclosure Document, which isn't apart of the recorded documents, though used be available on the DVC Member website; however, since they amended it this past time they haven't republished it) that outline the "Club" and how the DVC Reservation Component works. Section 6 Paragraph 1 has this phrasing. I'm not actually sure if Florida Statute even requires this language (I suspect not since it was dropped in the Riviera DVC Resort Agreement and that was approved by the regulators).

You can get a prior BVTC Disclosure Document (https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...TC-Hawaii_Exchange_DisclosureFinal_012417.pdf) on the Member website (fairly close to the one I have from November of 2018) and using the documents scanned in Post #1 you can see what the amended version looks like.

 

[ljmiii]

It isn't substantially similar POSs that are required...

You can get a prior BVTC Disclosure Document

Thank you very much...your research and insights have been educational and quite illuminating.

I had found the Hawaiian BVTC Disclosure (from which I learned there is a DVCHMC...among other things). But it was only this weekend that (thanks to drusba) I discovered how to access the 'mother lode' of DVC documents on the Orange County Comptroller's website. I've read BWV and BCV's declarations and so I now understand how DVCM's fiduciary responsibilities differ from BTCV's and where the "substantially similar" phrase originates.

But I still need to read and compare the DRR docs I've downloaded...

 

[crvetter]

Thank you very much...your research and insights have been educational and quite illuminating.

I had found the Hawaiian BVTC Disclosure (from which I learned there is a DVCHMC...among other things). But it was only this weekend that (thanks to drusba) I discovered how to access the 'mother lode' of DVC documents on the Orange County Comptroller's website. I've read BWV and BCV's declarations and so I now understand how DVCM's fiduciary responsibilities differ from BTCV's and where the "substantially similar" phrase originates.

But I still need to read and compare the DRR docs I've downloaded...

I think everyone will be interested in any differences you find. So please do keep us posted. I've read through most for the 2020 point allocation issue and this issue also so I definitely understand the task you are facing, quite a large amount of documents. More eyes on the documents and more expressing concern to DVC the better so thank you for your efforts.

 

[Wakey]

Simple fact for me: The regulators have let the consumers down in this area.
Over the last few years I've half heartedly (time and motivation I'm afraid) tried to make some sense of the highly complex documentation, much if it so loosley drafted that it's laughable. This has included hunting down declarations of condominium and comparing the various morphing POS. The people on this site have been a wealth of information.
Certainly in my jurisdiction, there are for example duties owed to club members, and certainly duties owed by those managing property. It seems that in the USA, there is a more relaxed regime in these areas.
We seem to have significant potential conflicts of interest with DVC/ DVCM , and I shake my head when I see promotional videos from last decade specifically stating points can never go up, but they then do with lockoff premium.
What I also struggle with is how the Club administrator can allow another resort to join our Club, with no reciprocal rights for all members . I wonder how it can be equitable or even contractually and regulatory permissible for owners of resort A to be paying dues for facilities which owners of resort B have access to, and they don't enjoy the same reciprocation.
People say Disney can do what they want, because they have good lawyers. That is totally incorrect. But then Disney do have on their side the automatons, often seen on Facebook etc, who say things like they love resale restrictions because they seem to believe it helps them- they just don't think it through. Can you imagine how DVC management must chuckle to themselves?
Really the whole area needs a big regulatory shake up and the consumer putting front and centre.
I always used to put DVC on a different plane to all other timeshare, and this type of thing was for other timeshare owners to worry about. Now, well the advice in a post above is excellent- get concerned when you read the contract and assume the worst will happen.
I say fortunately I'm grandfathered in, but now I am assuming I won't be grandfathered in forever and retrospective changes will eventually happen.

 

[ljmiii]

The complete sentence reads "1.15 DVC Reservation Component shall mean the exchange component of the Club central reservation system through which Vacation Homes in any DVC Resort may be reserved using DVC Vacation Points pursuant to priorities, restrictions and limitations established by BVTC from time to time and as set forth in the Disclosure Document."

The bolded is the part does imply to a degree the restrictions could have come about because the restrictions lie with within the Disclosure Document along with Riviera's DVC Resort Agreement. The question is does the restriction section in the DVC Resort Agreement really make it substantially different and would the court view it that way or was this section just simply reinforcing what they already said they could do and have done....

First, apologies for moving my reply to this thread - I'm hoping to keep the meat of the discussion limited to the Multi-Site POS and Would you join a lawsuit threads.

I don't think the legalities of changing the Disclosure Document affects this issue (though it may be the subject of another aspect of a lawsuit against BVTC).

BWV's DVC Resort agreement states that all members can use the exchange component and DRR's DVC Resort agreement states that only certain members can.

The DVC Resort agreements of BWV and BCV (and I assume the rest of the original 14...though I haven't gotten there yet) restrict BVTC to associating only those new DVC Resorts that have DVC Resort agreements that are substantially similar in all material respects.

QED, BVTC associated with a DVC resort in violation of our contracts. I assume BVTC would claim that the DVC resort agreements are substantially similar, but as I said, it is difficult to imagine a more material dissimilarity in an Agreement that lays out the regulations for trading into other DVC resorts than the inability to do so.

 

[TK-Tampa]

The 1/19/19 announcement is no longer on my DVC 'Notifications' page. Do notifications get rolled off to some other area on the site or expire?

 

[chalee94]

The 1/19/19 announcement is no longer on my DVC 'Notifications' page. Do notifications get rolled off to some other area on the site or expire?

There is a separate thread for this. The consensus is that it is a nonissue. Disney just doesn't want to visibly agitate the membership any further at this point by advertising this contentious policy.

 

[TK-Tampa]

There is a separate thread for this. The consensus is that it is a nonissue. Disney just doesn't want to visibly agitate the membership any further at this point by advertising this contentious policy.

Thank you!

 

[ljmiii]

First, apologies for moving my reply to this thread - I'm hoping to keep the meat of the discussion limited to the Multi-Site POS and Would you join a lawsuit threads...

In the end I decided to create a new "Would you join a lawsuit to revert DVC's resale restrictions?" thread.