Multi-Site POS Revision Dated 01/19/19

Discussion in 'DVC Member Services' started by Mumof4mice, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. Mumof4mice

    Mumof4mice Mouseketeer

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    I obtained a copy of the POS revision dated 01/19/19 from a quality assurance officer. ("I will consider buying points after getting a copy of the the POS revision" got me an instant appointment.)

    If anyone on these boards is still considering Riviera on the basis that it will be the first of the DVC2 resorts (as I was), the revision comprehensively dispels that theory.

    On the plus side - I'm a silver lining person - I look forward to buying cheap resale points when DVD gets around to building a new Epcot resort.
     

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  2. _auroraborealis_

    _auroraborealis_ I like marshmallows. And adult beverages.

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    Oh, that's adorable.

    The new RCI agreement can be restricted. That's new.
     
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  4. crvetter

    crvetter DIS Veteran

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    Looks like so far that Disney fully intends on this to be as restrictive as possible (at least while Riviera is not sold out). They essentially just added language to say new resorts when bought through resale can't convert Home Vacation Points to DVC Vacation Points unless directly bought from DVC, or an approved seller.

    2nd Page Comments

    The one large thing I noticed now is that they did add language on the second page, paragraph labeled #4 that DVC can, if it decides, allow for a fee to convert points bought on the resale markets or convert them for buying additional ownership interest. As of right now it appears that isn't allowed and would require them to amend the BVTC Disclosure document each time. It also says they can add additional restrictions to certain categories of Club Members, Club Members, or a set times (not sure what the set times means).

    Section 3.1: They updated that the DVC reservation component requires admission to the club but admission to the club doesn't guarantee access to the DVC reservation component. I guess by grandfathering the original 14 to the reservation component of the original 14 to avoid potential litigation.

    Section 3.3a: They said they may limit people that buy resale to reserving at other DVC resorts to certain time windows. I guess this means to reduce their booking window.

    4th Page Comments

    Says RCI access may not be allowed for resale buyers. I'm guessing this means that Riviera resale buyers won't be allowed to access it. I'm guessing this is required to balance demand and allow Disney to offload SSR to RCI as opposed to taking from Riviera. Probably something RCI required to continue the agreement.

    These were my quick larger observations. Interested to see what others find. I'll probably read a bit more in detail later. Though I think they will restrict resale until after the resort is sold out then allow resale buyers to pay a fee to upgrade. But my suspicion is they won't allow all resale buyers to pay the fee to upgrade (just those that buy after a certain or something). Looks like they really want to discourage resale buyers in case future resorts "fail" or are unpopular. My guess it is their "poor attempt" to control inventory flooding from "unpopular" resorts and "cheap" points at resale. I feel that probably is what they are afraid of diminishing their brand. And they decided to do this also to double dip because if a resort is popular sure we will accept a fee and give you access to the Reservation Component.

    Overall I don't like the changes but will follow their process closely to see what they end up doing once Riviera sells out.

    And if resale tanks hard and really eats into their direct sales they will just "wave a wand" and undo all these changes for everyone. It implies that this will be allowed.
     
  5. Bing Showei

    Bing Showei DIS Veteran

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    This seems to suggest they may change how resale owners at Riviera are able to book their own home resort. Resale owners may have a different set of rules to book at home. Am I reading that right?
     
  6. CMNJ

    CMNJ DIS Veteran

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    One thing that jumped out at me was that it said they could change, restrict, or limit home resort reservation components. To me that sounds like direct buyers could have say an 11 month window and resale could have 10 months (or less).
     
  7. CMNJ

    CMNJ DIS Veteran

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    Lol that’s exactly how I interpreted it too. I was posting at the same time.
    That’s scary
     
  8. CarolynFH

    CarolynFH DIS Veteran

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    I think they are. Maybe a different booking window? E.g. direct owners can book at 11 months, resale at 10 (or 9, or 8).

    @CMNJ - Jinx!
     
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  9. crvetter

    crvetter DIS Veteran

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    Interesting, I missed that component in my quick read through. But that certainly looks like they could do it. We haven’t seen them say they will but it certainly seems they could to me with that statement.
     
  10. TheMick424

    TheMick424 Mouseketeer

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    What about the language in section 3.3a “other seller approved by the Developer”. What do you think that means?
     
  11. Bing Showei

    Bing Showei DIS Veteran

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    As this is an amendment to the MS-POS and applies to all resorts, nothing in the language makes this exclusively a Riviera issue.

    As I'm reading it, they're laying down the groundwork to differentiate between ALL resale and direct contracts across all resorts. POS has always guaranteed only 1-month advantage over non-home resort bookings.
     
  12. CMNJ

    CMNJ DIS Veteran

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    I think that just means DVD wants to keep all options open. If DVD ever wanted to make money on resales without bothering with ROFR and having to resell the contracts themselves they could offer an exclusive relationship with a resale company and allow resale purchasers from that company only to access those benefits......for steep fees of course lol
     
  13. CarolynFH

    CarolynFH DIS Veteran

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    I agree.
     
  14. crvetter

    crvetter DIS Veteran

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    I’m suspecting many of the restrictions will only occur with respect to Riviera and forward. I think it would open them up to much litigation because the only thing our POS when everyone else bought said we shouldn’t purchase with the guarantee to future resorts. But i suppose anything is possible.
     
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  15. CarolynFH

    CarolynFH DIS Veteran

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    Didn’t they have a referral relationship with Fidelity for a while?
     
  16. crvetter

    crvetter DIS Veteran

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    Also the section you quoted is a disclosure not an actual rule. If you look at the following section, Exhibit O-Public Offering Statement-Section 11, it says these restrictions are defined in the DVC Resort Agreement and Membership Agreement. Those two documents a specific to each resort. So I suspect unless they change them for other resorts, which maybe they can’t without exposing themselves, I think we are protected in the classic 14 from cross booking and not differentiating resale and direct buyers for booking reasons.

    Remember the Resort POS take priority over this document. So what our DVC Resort Agreements and Memberships agreement, which are attached to the Resort POS dictate a resorts limitation. I was told to consider the multi-site POS as an aggregation/summary of all resort POS

    Once they record Riviera’s POS it will be interesting to see how these two documents are different than the previous. The prior Resort Agreements said any admitted to BVTC would be similar.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  17. Mumof4mice

    Mumof4mice Mouseketeer

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    I think what's more likely to happen is a lengthening of home resort window of future desirable resorts to encourage people to buy/add points. Last I checked, Hilton Club in New York opens to non home resort booking at 45 days - literally at the eleventh hour.
    Most other HGVC resorts have the same (longer) non-home booking windows.

    Not sure if Riviera resale buyers will be considered "Riviera" or "non-home". Surely they wouldn't be restricted to home only, and can only book very very late??

    If that's the case you are talking literally pennies to the dollar for resale value.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  18. Mumof4mice

    Mumof4mice Mouseketeer

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    Disney has so far elected to grandfather existing contracts rather than sending in troops to exterminate the resale leper colony.

    I think our current resales are safe from meaningful, core value changes. Selling and rebuying at a later stage, however, is now riskier as we seem to be in a period of rapid revisions.
     
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  19. Frederic Civish

    Frederic Civish “I’m just here for the Ears.”

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    I am going to post selected excerpts from the POS, below. This is the bulk of the POS but is not ALL of it. I have tried to focus most closely on the iteration of the Restrictions.

    I did not include EVERYTHING in the Offering statement. I have only included the things that I thought pertained most directly to current and future limitations.

    It clearly states the currently announced limitations, and then, essentially says, "AND, we can limit ANYTHING, because we can change the rules however we want, whenever we want, and we can even deny you the right to book at your own home resort."

    Take a look and see if you agree.

     
  20. ScubaCat

    ScubaCat DIS Veteran

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    Interesting how they leave it open to the idea of "authorized resellers" who can sell contracts with equivalent direct-purchase privileges. Also, as I suspected, they clearly state that they may offer expanded privileges to resale buyers with additional fees or direct-purchases of additional Riviera points. This is a common practice with many other timeshares, so it seems like an obvious method they could implement to extract more money from resale buyers: "Your points are kind of crappy and thus severely restricted, but you can convert them to really awesome points for a modest fee." They did leave the door open to limited trading, though, based on demand. So, Riviera resale owners might still be able to snag that 1BR at SSR in a pinch if nothing's available at home. I did not see where they could adjust the home resort priority for resale-owners, though. I suspect that could be legally tricky.

    I also enjoyed the little $25,000 annual Corporate Membership fee they gave themselves from all the owners. That's maybe $1-2 an owner, give or take, but hey, free cash!
     
  21. kniquy

    kniquy DIS Veteran

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    This would be a very sticky situation for any potential Riviera resale buyer. So you buy a resale at Rivera because you love the resort, but you are locked into only being able to book at say 5 months. Between 11 month and the 7 month window you will have all direct Rivera owners booking, then at 7 months you will have direct buyers of other resorts and those grandfathered resale buyers, so 5 months comes along and there is only spotty availability, if any (depending upon the time of year). This could essentially make the resale contract totally worthless when you are unable to book anything with your points.

    If DVC really wanted to eradicate the resale market then why wouldn't they put in a buy back clause? Where if you want out you can either sell back to DVC (at there determined amount) or you can gift to a family member. Completely eliminating the resale market.
    I think they do benefit from the resale market in that they have all these points/contracts which they already sold and made their money. Plus they have all these resale members paying MF.

    I guess their hold back from putting in such a clause would be if they were to take back everything then DVC could potentially be sitting on thousands of points and no one paying MF.
     

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