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[HomeSweetDisney]

What if Voldemort lived, but was stripped of all his magical powers? I think he'd consider that a fate worse than death.

A more logical possibility is that he could have his last piece of soul sucked out by a Dementor. If the Order found some way to round up all the Dementors for example, and then threw Voldie into their midst - like the way Simba threw Scar into the canyon full of hyenas...

Now THAT is a good idea. Being ordinary, not having power, is something Voldemort is terrified of. Probably one of the ONLY things he's truly scared of. He would definitely be miserable if he was stripped of all his powers.

The Dementors have proved to be rather flaky. Obviously, they stick with whatever side seems to have more to offer them. I think if Voldermort were to be defeated, or rendered powerless rather, they could probably be persuaded to do some work for the light side. (I can't figure out what we're supposed to call them. The good side and the evil side? The light side and the dark side? It's kinda Star Wars-ish though ) Anywho, administering the Dementors Kiss would be a sure fire way of bringing Voldemort down permanently. As far as we know, there is no known way of recovering from having your soul sucked out. So if he was already weakened from having the other bits of his soul destroyed, having the last part sucked out would ensure his end right?

 

[UnderTheMistletoe]

. So if he was already weakened from having the other bits of his soul destroyed, having the last part sucked out would ensure his end right?

Wonder if that's why we've been told about The Kiss. Seems like she has spent some time opening that door and explaining what would happen, etc., just for it to be left hanging. Good observation.

Sirius wasn't killed by it (although close!). Was anyone we know actually killed by it?

 

[SueM in MN]

Wonder if that's why we've been told about The Kiss. Seems like she has spent some time opening that door and explaining what would happen, etc., just for it to be left hanging. Good observation.

Sirius wasn't killed by it (although close!). Was anyone we know actually killed by it?

I don't think Voldemort will be killed by Dementors. I think she has used the kiss enough as a way to add terror to the plot and advance the plot to make it have proced why it's there (IMHO). It added a certain tension to the plot after you knew that Sirius was good and was under constant danger of a Dementor's Kiss if he was caught. Now that the Dementors are renegades (hust out to suck who ever happens to be handy) they are certainly a danger for the whole magic community.

We didn't see it, but Barty Crouch Jr was kissed at the end of the Prisoner of Azkaban. It doesn't kill, but leaves the body an empty shell without a soul (worse than dead is what the book says).
DD and the other members of the order were angry because he should have been questioned more about what he knew.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

We were all the way on page 4 so I bumped it up

So have we pretty much gone through all the theories we can about horcruxes? Anyone else have anything to add about that?

Or should we move onto a new topic?

 

[va32h]

Does anyone read the forums at Leaky Lounge? I have been able to participate in some interesting discussions, but it seems like they go back and forth over the same stuff a lot.

I really feel for those mods, because just about every day there is a brand new member posting something like "hey, i just realized, harry is a horcrux! has anyone thought of that yet!"

One of the things we've been touching on recently is how Voldemort will be defeated. We already have some theories upthread.

I just can't see any of the Order having the necessary negative emotion to really commit an Aveda Kedavra murder. Of course, we aren't really sure what you need to have in you to do an AK. Voldemort was certainly full of hate when he killed his parents, but he had no feelings about Cedric when he killed him.

So can a good person use the AK spell? Is that what Harry et al will have to do? Can the readers forgive them for using what we are told is the worst spell in all the wizarding world, if it's for the right cause?

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

One of the things we've been touching on recently is how Voldemort will be defeated. We already have some theories upthread.

I just can't see any of the Order having the necessary negative emotion to really commit an Aveda Kedavra murder. Of course, we aren't really sure what you need to have in you to do an AK. Voldemort was certainly full of hate when he killed his parents, but he had no feelings about Cedric when he killed him.

So can a good person use the AK spell? Is that what Harry et al will have to do? Can the readers forgive them for using what we are told is the worst spell in all the wizarding world, if it's for the right cause?

Well that's an interesting thought. Because all this time, I thought the only way to truly defeat an evil wizard would be to use AK. That's how I thought DD killed Grindewald. I never thought it was something you had to be evil to do. I guess my line of thinking was that yes, it's considered a dark art but sometimes don't you have to fight fire with fire? And if you're a powerful enough wizard/witch, wouldn't you be able to use AK for a good cause without it having any adverse effects on you? (i.e. being seduced by the dark arts and wanting to use them for evil)

Because when JKR says DD "defeated" Grindewald I assumed she mean killed. How else would he be completely eradicated? But I don't know any other way to kill a wizard except for AK. So I thought that's what he did.

 

[N&B'smom]

Did someone mention Alan Rickman?

I have to stop and ask myself as I'm reading the book - "would I like this character if he weren't played by Alan Rickman?" I'd tolerate Snape a lot less if he weren't made so likeable (and to put it bluntly sexy) by Rickman.

Seriously?!?! I can't even imagine finding Snape SEXY!?!? I'm more of a Sirius Black fan. Bad teeth and all. Actually, whenever I look at the picture of Harry and Chang about to kiss, I find myself tilting my head a bit to the side. I'm a dirty, dirty woman. I don't even think he's 18 yet!

Shelby

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

Seriously?!?! I can't even imagine finding Snape SEXY!?!? I'm more of a Sirius Black fan. Bad teeth and all. Actually, whenever I look at the picture of Harry and Chang about to kiss, I find myself tilting my head a bit to the side. I'm a dirty, dirty woman. I don't even think he's 18 yet!

Shelby

I agree with you about Daniel Radcliffe cause I think he's totally hot. And I don't feel TOO bad about saying that cause I'm only like, 4 years and some odd months older than him. *cough* But I also think Snape/Alan Rickman is sexy! He's super yummy...and I like him as characters other than Snape too. I thought he looked hot in Love Actually and Dogma

But I'm with you on Gary Oldman too. I've loved him since I first saw Sid and Nancy when I was like 14.

 

[Figment22]

Ollivander has mysteriously disappeared - is he being forced to make Voldie a new wand?

This is something I've been thinking about since I read HBP for the first time. Ollivander's disappearance is most certainly not coincidental.

Something else I've always wondered about is the Lethifold. Given a XXXXX classification as a known wizard killer in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, its description is very large (pgs. 25-27) in the book. I find it difficult to believe that JKR would give such descriptive detail to a creature that we would never see in the septology. For the few HP fans who may not have a copy of FBAWTFT, I'll quote from the final paragraph of the description of the Lethifold:

...the Patronus is the only spell known to repel the Lethifold. Since it generally attacks the sleeping, though, its victims rarely have a chance to use any magic against it. Once its prey has been successfully suffocated, the Lethifold digests its food there and then in their bed. It then exits the house slightly thicker and fatter than before, leaving no trace of itself or its victim behind.

Would it be possible for a soul-weakened Voldemort to be finished off by a Lethifold attack, in some way manipulated by Harry? He wouldn't have to use AK under these circumstances.

 

[N&B'smom]

I agree with you about Daniel Radcliffe cause I think he's totally hot. And I don't feel TOO bad about saying that cause I'm only like, 4 years and some odd months older than him. *cough* But I also think Snape/Alan Rickman is sexy! He's super yummy...and I like him as characters other than Snape too. I thought he looked hot in Love Actually and Dogma

But I'm with you on Gary Oldman too. I've loved him since I first saw Sid and Nancy when I was like 14.

At least he's ALMOST 18. I'm 16 years older than he is. Is it wrong that I also find him to be hot!??!?! Oh well, wrong or not, he's HOT!

I'm still baffled by the Snape thing, I think I may watch one of the HP movies tonight and concentrate on Snape and see what you guys are talking about. I think my dislike for him since day 1 may just counteract any possibility of sexiness. The fact that he treats Harry like such crap just makes him do unlikable!

Shelby

 

[lindalinda]

I totally agree about Alan Rickman being sexy. Even though he was a total cad in Love Actually, I was still cheering for him, I just wanted him to do the right thing. Sense and Sensibility was another one he was wonderful in. Oh, and Marvin in Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy ...ok, so he definitely wasnt sexy in that one!

 

[va32h]

Let's get one thing straight - my daughter is going to marry Daniel Radcliffe when she grows up. She's been saying that since Socerer's Stone. So back off, ladies!

Well that's an interesting thought. Because all this time, I thought the only way to truly defeat an evil wizard would be to use AK. That's how I thought DD killed Grindewald. I never thought it was something you had to be evil to do. I guess my line of thinking was that yes, it's considered a dark art but sometimes don't you have to fight fire with fire? And if you're a powerful enough wizard/witch, wouldn't you be able to use AK for a good cause without it having any adverse effects on you? (i.e. being seduced by the dark arts and wanting to use them for evil)

But if the AK can be used for good, why is it an Unforgiveable Curse? That's what is a sticking point for me. Using the AK will get a wizard sent straight to Azkaban. Nothing in the books shows us that an AK can be used for good.

Unfortunately, the book doesn't tell us many other ways for killing a wizard besides the AK. Poison, or falling through the Veil are the only other two types of killings we've seen, that I can recall.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

Let's get one thing straight - my daughter is going to marry Daniel Radcliffe when she grows up. She's been saying that since Socerer's Stone. So back off, ladies!

Duly noted

But if the AK can be used for good, why is it an Unforgiveable Curse? That's what is a sticking point for me. Using the AK will get a wizard sent straight to Azkaban. Nothing in the books shows us that an AK can be used for good.

That's true. I'm really baffled on this one then. Because somehow I don't see Voldemort being poisoned or falling through the veil at the ministry. But one thing I thought after reading your comment was that if someone used the AK on Voldemort I really don't see them being sent to Azkaban for it. I mean, if someone were capable of AK'ing Voldemort I doubt the ministry or anyone else for that matter, would want that person to be punished for it. So even if it is an Unforgivable, if someone from the Order, or Harry himself, is able to perform AK I think it could be used without fear of punishment. At the same time, I've always kind of thought that a wizard like Voldemort wouldn't be taken down using AK.

 

[N&B'smom]

Let's get one thing straight - my daughter is going to marry Daniel Radcliffe when she grows up. She's been saying that since Socerer's Stone. So back off, ladies!

All right, all right. But would she let me borrow him - just once so I can get him out of my system.

Shelby

 

[UnderTheMistletoe]

Let's get one thing straight - my daughter is going to marry Daniel Radcliffe when she grows up. She's been saying that since Socerer's Stone. So back off, ladies

I take it Harry Potter is a family affair in your household. As long as you promise to invite me to the wedding, I don't care!​

Well, I think that is a bit of a thought provoking question- would the person who killed LV with an AK be sent to Azkaban? Well, is going to Azkaban all that bad now that the Dementors are on the loose and not guarding the prison? I mean, it's prison, so yes, but it doesn't seem to have that complete and total fear associated with it for me at least.

Would anyone really question Harry if he did? I mean he was the, "Boy who survived." He's the only one to live through an AK. And nearly all the AKs discussed in the cannon have been at the hand's of LV or a DE or a follower (Wormtail, for example). I think it almost beings us back to who is going to be killed in book 7 and will that hate boil into enough for Harry to kill with an AK.

I'm still sticking to what DD said and not buying into the AK. For one, DD said Harry's love and ability to love were what set the two apart. More over, Fawkes has played a prominent role throughout the books. If he hadn't been there, Harry would have died becuase of the Basilisk (makes me wonder why Fawkes couldn't have cried and save DD's hand ). We know that the tail feathers in both wands were from Fawke's tail. It seems to be another way that LV and Harry are bound, and, in some ways, bound to Hogwarts and DD. I think the Priori Incantatem is going to be of great significance and importance. According to the Lexicon,

When two wands are forced to duel that have the same core material from the same single creature, the result will be Priori Incantatem, a display in sequence of the last spells one of the wands cast. Which wands shows the spell effect depends on the willpower of the two wizards involved.

So, I think we have it there that Harry is more willing or able than LV is/was. That or LV severely underestimated the powers that Harry had. However, becuase Harry used the disarming spell and not the AK at LV (even when LV used the AK), I think we are fairly safe to assume that it's unlikely he will in the next book. I just don't see him doing it. I don't see him betraying all that is good to get even with someone as ruthless as LV. By using an AK, he becomes no better than LV... and in many minds, his equal as he proved he would use it.

I still think there is something that is going to happen with Fawkes. And, although Ollivander has gone into hiding, I doubt it is to make LV a new wand. If he is under his own freewill (which he may not be), I don't see him betraying the wizarding world to do so. Except that we do have that mysteriously mentioned wand on the purple, dusty pillow... I don't think it's going to come down to a duel with wands. At least not LV's and Harry's wands. I do not see Hermione or Ron using an AK either. The only one I really could see using anything would be Neville and a Cruciatus.

Wonder if Snape is ultimately going to be the one to kill him. He will use an AK and has used an AK on DD. He's always been there to save Harry in some way, as well. I think that's more the route I'm going. I think Snape holds a whole lot of this story... I think some (but not all) of his mysteries are going to be revealed and play a major, major role in the outcome of the book. And, LV still trusts Snape. Snape turns his wand on LV and the DEs, in turn, kill Snape? Harry and gang are somehow protected by love (Snape's even?). Where do you think the final duel will take place?

One more thing... anyone else think there's something up with Trevor?!

VAH, I do post on the Leaky Lounge now and again. I have lurked for quite awhile. Fawkes_Friend.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

I think it's the bad boy thing. He lives in dungeons after all. It should be him with the whips and things not Filtch!!!

that could be it!!

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

I think "Harry Potter and All the Damned Horcruxes" is an excellent alternate title. I read a very funny essay somewhere online by a guy who pretty much agreed with you. He suggested that Harry just round up all the horcruxes and put them in a big sack, get Voldemort to chase him through the Department of Mysteries, run into the room with the Veil, and sprint towards it. But just as Harry reaches the veil, he throws the sack of horcruxes into it, and leaps away to the side. Voldemort is running too fast to stop, and he pitches himself into the veil, in the manner of a Bugs Bunny type cartoon.

Okay, it was a lot funner in the original essay, I am paraphrasing badly!

that would probably be the best ending to a book ever!!


i wonder if maybe Snape knows about the Horcrux's??? since he's Voldy's "right-hand man" and all? that would be interesting.

 

[UnderTheMistletoe]

i wonder if maybe Snape knows about the Horcrux's??? since he's Voldy's "right-hand man" and all? that would be interesting.

I've always suspected that DD told him either verbally or through occulmency/legilimens. I think those two could communicate quite easily without words. If Snape was workign for the Order, and we know he was, and was so intimately involved with LV, then I would assume that he does know or has a very good inkling.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

Don't discount a wand duel between Harry and Voldemort. Just because their wands can't duel each other doesn't mean they can't with different wands. Ollivander has mysteriously disappeared - is he being forced to make Voldie a new wand?

Or could Harry use someone else's wand - hmmm, who bought the last wand Ollivander sold before disappearing...Neville!

I've always thought it would be suitably ironic for Voldemort to die by some Muggle method. He prides himself on being a superior wizard, how humiliating would it be for him to die like an ordinary Muggle. But I don't even know if it's possible for a wizard to be killed by a Muggle weapon.

well they're not super-human, so i'm sure a gun, or a knife, or something to that effect would kill a wizard. but they'd have to be a pretty dense wizard, since most wizards and witches know even wandless spells and healing abilities.

i think it would be a great way for him to go, actually. by Muggle means, just the way he hates it!

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

Seriously?!?! I can't even imagine finding Snape SEXY!?!? I'm more of a Sirius Black fan. Bad teeth and all. Actually, whenever I look at the picture of Harry and Chang about to kiss, I find myself tilting my head a bit to the side. I'm a dirty, dirty woman. I don't even think he's 18 yet!

Shelby

ahaha! yeah don't feel bad, i think he's cute too. him and the Draco kid, the Twins, and Cedric. ........so you're not alone.