*~* Muggles, Welcome to the Burrow! *~*

[Linzybrooke]

Joining a little late but here I am! Better late than never!

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

Just for a clear reference point:

Known Horcruxes:
The Diary (destroyed)
The Ring (destroyed)
The Locket (possibly destroyed by the mysterious R.A.B.)

Dumbledore's speculation:
Hufflepuff's cup
Something belonging to Ravenclaw or Griffindor
Nagini the snake (even though living creatures make risky horcruxes)

(according to HBP pg 503-507)

Something interesting: even if all horcruxes are destroyed, it will still take a wizard of great skill and power to kill Voldemort as his brain and magical powers will remain intact. According to DD, Harry has this skill in the fact that he can love. (HBP, pg. 509)

I'm on the fence about Harry (or the scar) being an accidental horcrux. Certainly, there was a sufficient killing for a horcrux to be made. We know that Lily's love for Harry saved him-- perhaps love interacting with the AK curse had the side effect of creating a horcrux? Or a horcrux-like object? Harry definitely has part of Voldemort in him-- could this be possible without being a horcrux?

that's a good point.

 

[va32h]

A little OT, but I wondered if, during the time Tom Riddle disappeared, if he was actually discovering Grundelwald's secrets, including the spell to create horcruxes.

Sharon

I wondered that too. Horcruxes aren't in any books, and Slughorn wouldn't tell Tom. So he had to learn from somewhere. Maybe Dumbledore prevented Grindelwald from creating a horcrux, which is why he forbade any mention of them at Hogwarts after that?

It would have been nice if we had ever learned how Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

I wondered that too. Horcruxes aren't in any books, and Slughorn wouldn't tell Tom. So he had to learn from somewhere. Maybe Dumbledore prevented Grindelwald from creating a horcrux, which is why he forbade any mention of them at Hogwarts after that?

It would have been nice if we had ever learned how Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald.

i thought Slughorn did tell Tom about the Horcrux's?? just that his memory was modified??

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Also, with the last book coming, I want her to take her time and make it the best she can. I want her to fufill her vision for the series. I hate that she's killed two of my very favorite characters, but I can understand why she killed them. I want her to write the books without rushing so they reach their full potential no matter what the outcome(s?) may be.

I agree. I want this book to be perfect. I believe JKR has had the very last chapter of book 7 written for years-- she knows exactly how it will end. I just want the "middle stuff" to be good as well.

The release of book 7 will be a bittersweet moment. JKR will probably never write about the Potterverse again....however...I've always wanted to read Hogwarts, A History so maybe she'll write that at some point down the road like she did with Quiddich Through the Ages and Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

I'm a children's librarian and already I'm hearing from saddened, young HP who are asking me for the next great series. I have not found one yet!

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

I agree. I want this book to be perfect. I believe JKR has had the very last chapter of book 7 written for years-- she knows exactly how it will end. I just want the "middle stuff" to be good as well.

The release of book 7 will be a bittersweet moment. JKR will probably never write about the Potterverse again....however...I've always wanted to read Hogwarts, A History so maybe she'll write that at some point down the road like she did with Quiddich Through the Ages and Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

I'm a children's librarian and already I'm hearing from saddened, young HP who are asking me for the next great series. I have not found one yet!

yeah i haven't found anything that great either.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

i thought Slughorn did tell Tom about the Horcrux's?? just that his memory was modified??

He told Tom to an extent-- he didn't mention the spell needed, but he did explain about soul-splitting and the need to kill.

I was under the impression that Horcruxes were a Very Dark Art and no books at Hogwarts mentioned them-- not that the subject was banned from all books but just from Hogwarts. Tom could have learned elsewhere...he was determined and I'm sure he was able to use his powers to get his answer.

I'll try to see if I can find that passage that gave me this idea...

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

He told Tom to an extent-- he didn't mention the spell needed, but he did explain about soul-splitting and the need to kill.

I was under the impression that Horcruxes were a Very Dark Art and no books at Hogwarts mentioned them-- not that the subject was banned from all books but just from Hogwarts. Tom could have learned elsewhere...he was determined and I'm sure he was able to use his powers to get his answer.

I'll try to see if I can find that passage that gave me this idea...

that's true. i'm wondering where he got the book from, then? because i don't think they'd sell it anywhere near Hogwarts for that simple reason.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

It would have been nice if we had ever learned how Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald.

I think we'll be finding that out in book 7. Or at least get the information that is relevent to the plot. JKR has been so evasive when asked about Grindewald that I think there has to be some stuff that will be coming out in book 7 that will clear up and answer the questions we've had about him and how he relates to the events that are occuring now.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

that's true. i'm wondering where he got the book from, then? because i don't think they'd sell it anywhere near Hogwarts for that simple reason.

Okay-- HBP Chapter 23. Harry and DD are examining Slughorn's memory in the Pensive. Slughorn tells Tom that horcruxes are a banned subject at Hogwarts. Dumbledore explains to Harry that Tom was looking for information that no book would tell him-- if it was possible to split a soul into more than two pieces.

So... We're not entirely sure if a book actually existed on the subject but there was enough known about it that so far, no wizard had ever attempted more than one split.

Hope that clears things up!

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

Okay-- HBP Chapter 23. Harry and DD are examining Slughorn's memory in the Pensive. Slughorn tells Tom that horcruxes are a banned subject at Hogwarts. Dumbledore explains to Harry that Tom was looking for information that no book would tell him-- if it was possible to split a soul into more than two pieces.

So... We're not entirely sure if a book actually existed on the subject but there was enough known about it that so far, no wizard had ever attempted more than one split.

Hope that clears things up!

thanks! man, i'm such a bad Potter fan! lol.

i'm wondering what other wizards have attempted the splits before?? we haven't really heard of any.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

i'm wondering what other wizards have attempted the splits before?? we haven't really heard of any.

My gut instinct is telling me that Grindewald was probably the only wizard before Voldemort to even come close to creating a horcrux. But I think that when DD defeated him he also thwarted his horcrux-making attempt. And I agree with the other poster who said that is maybe why he banned the subject from being taught or even mentioned at Hogwarts. I'd love to find out how the young Tom Riddle found out about horcruxes though. In HBP when we see Slughorn's unaltered memory we only see him asking what they are and how one would create a horcrux. We are never told how he found out about them to begin with. And when Hermione is researching them she is very frustrated because of the incredibly limited amount of information available on horcruxes. So how did Tom Riddle come across this dark art, and more so, how did he obtain the information on them? Because what I got from the scene in HBP with Slughorn is that he already had a basic idea of what horcruxes are and what their purpose is and was simply looking for confirmation that "yes, that's why they do."

ETA: In that Mugglenet interview JKR sort of reluctantly alludes to the fact that Grindewald is important to the overall story. So I'm definitely thinking a lot of his story and it's relevance to the current events in the series will be coming out in book 7.

 

[SueM in MN]

And once again VA32h, you have put into words what I can't seem to say! That's definitely why I don't think Harry is a horcrux and never have. It just doesn't seem plausible to me that he could "accidentally" become one. Mostly because even though we don't know exactly how horcruxes are made, it is a very deliberate process. I guess we'll just have to wait and see though. Right now, it is literally all speculation.

I agree. I just don't think Harry could be a horcrux, accidental or otherwise.

LiLIrishChick63

Okay-- HBP Chapter 23. Harry and DD are examining Slughorn's memory in the Pensive. Slughorn tells Tom that horcruxes are a banned subject at Hogwarts. Dumbledore explains to Harry that Tom was looking for information that no book would tell him-- if it was possible to split a soul into more than two pieces.

So... We're not entirely sure if a book actually existed on the subject but there was enough known about it that so far, no wizard had ever attempted more than one split.

Hope that clears things up!

thanks! man, i'm such a bad Potter fan! lol.

i'm wondering what other wizards have attempted the splits before?? we haven't really heard of any.

I would imagine that any wizards that did attempt the split, I imagine some would have died in their attempt (since the spell was apparently pretty complex) and any who were successful would probably not talk about it.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

My gut instinct is telling me that Grindewald was probably the only wizard before Voldemort to even come close to creating a horcrux. But I think that when DD defeated him he also thwarted his horcrux-making attempt. And I agree with the other poster who said that is maybe why he banned the subject from being taught or even mentioned at Hogwarts. I'd love to find out how the young Tom Riddle found out about horcruxes though. In HBP when we see Slughorn's unaltered memory we only see him asking what they are and how one would create a horcrux. We are never told how he found out about them to begin with. And when Hermione is researching them she is very frustrated because of the incredibly limited amount of information available on horcruxes. So how did Tom Riddle come across this dark art, and more so, how did he obtain the information on them? Because what I got from the scene in HBP with Slughorn is that he already had a basic idea of what horcruxes are and what their purpose is and was simply looking for confirmation that "yes, that's why they do."

.....drives you nuts, doesn't it?? i know it drives ME nuts! i just want to know!! argh! lol

 

[SueM in MN]

Because what I got from the scene in HBP with Slughorn is that he already had a basic idea of what horcruxes are and what their purpose is and was simply looking for confirmation that "yes, that's why they do."

That was what I got out of that too.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

That was what I got out of that too.

that could definatly be a possibility, because there's speculation that Tom had already made a Horcrux at that point, with the ring. he had already killed Tom Sr. and that whole family.

 

[va32h]

Just for a clear reference point:


Something interesting: even if all horcruxes are destroyed, it will still take a wizard of great skill and power to kill Voldemort as his brain and magical powers will remain intact. According to DD, Harry has this skill in the fact that he can love. (HBP, pg. 509)

I'm on the fence about Harry (or the scar) being an accidental horcrux. Certainly, there was a sufficient killing for a horcrux to be made. We know that Lily's love for Harry saved him-- perhaps love interacting with the AK curse had the side effect of creating a horcrux? Or a horcrux-like object? Harry definitely has part of Voldemort in him-- could this be possible without being a horcrux?

And I think that is where we reach an impasse, because we don't know how horcruxes are created or if they can be made accidentally.

On another note, Harry does have part of Voldemort in him, but it's an intellectual part; Parseltongue, and an limited Legillimency that allows him see into Voldemort's brain. But Harry's soul remains intact and pure.

If Voldemort cannot bear to possess a soul as pure as Harry's (as seen in the confrontation at the Ministry of Magic, it was unbearably painful for Voldemort and Harry to occupy the same body); how can a piece of Voldemort's soul be happily residing in Harry all this while?

So I do think it is possible for Harry to share intellectual powers with Voldemort, and not be a horcrux.

And while you brought up the subject of love, I do think it is Harry's love that will kill Voldemort - in the sense that Harry's ability to love and be loved has given him so many strong allies. Harry may ultimately confront Voldemort alone, but he will have arrived at that confrontation with the help of his friends.

There's an interesting bit in OoTP, when Hermione is worried about her OWL exams. She is upset because she translated a rune incorrectly - she translated it as "defense" when it actually meant "partnership".

Now this is the only rune that we have in the books, although Hermione has been taking Ancient Runes for three years over the course of the series. That we are given this particular rune makes me think it is key. Harry has to learn that defense (protecting his loved ones by working alone) is not what will work. He has to accept their help in a partnership.

He has already come to terms with this somewhat, by accepting Hermione and Ron's willingness to come with him to Godric's Hollow.

 

[CobraBubbles]

Ah, I hate to say it...I do, I do...but

I think the horcruxes are soooooo boring

So, I really have nothing to add. I really DREAD that book 7 will be Harry Potter and all the Damn Horcruxes...*sigh*

I can't wait for book 7, but am secretly scared that there will be loose ends, or that it will be all horcruxes, or that certain people will die that I want to live, or that it won't end right...ha ha.

Also, Rickman is the perfect Snape...I've heard many argue that he is way too old. True, but I can't imagine anyone else, he's perfect if you suspend your imagination a bit.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

Ah, I hate to say it...I do, I do...but

I think the horcruxes are soooooo boring

So, I really have nothing to add. I really DREAD that book 7 will be Harry Potter and all the Damn Horcruxes...*sigh*

I can't wait for book 7, but am secretly scared that there will be loose ends, or that it will be all horcruxes, or that certain people will die that I want to live, or that it won't end right...ha ha.

Also, Rickman is the perfect Snape...I've heard many argue that he is way too old. True, but I can't imagine anyone else, he's perfect if you suspend your imagination a bit.

when i first read OOTP i thought it was extremely boring and then i eventually got really into it. so who knows, maybe you'll change your mind??

Alan Rickman is definatly a great Snape. i can't imagine anyone else. he's just SO weird, it's so great! and you really can't tell that he's 60, he still looks the part. my sister(along with i'm sure millions of other people) has the HUGEST crush on him as Snape. and ONLY Snape. it's a little strange lol.

 

[LuvN~Travel]

that's true. i'm wondering where he got the book from, then? because i don't think they'd sell it anywhere near Hogwarts for that simple reason.

The info is probably found very easily in Knockturn Alley. Though the Weasleys manage to keep their kids out of there, we've already seen the Malfoy family in there, and we know due to the last book that Voldemort's first job was there.
You can probably find any of the 'banned' things there.
Kim