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[LiLIrishChick63]

The info is probably found very easily in Knockturn Alley. Though the Weasleys manage to keep their kids out of there, we've already seen the Malfoy family in there, and we know due to the last book that Voldemort's first job was there.
You can probably find any of the 'banned' things there.
Kim

darn that Knockturn Alley! why would they sell books like that, anyway?? argh!

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

The info is probably found very easily in Knockturn Alley. Though the Weasleys manage to keep their kids out of there, we've already seen the Malfoy family in there, and we know due to the last book that Voldemort's first job was there.
You can probably find any of the 'banned' things there.
Kim

That could be true but somehow I don't think it's quite that easy. This is a dark art that is so complex and vague that there really isn't even a lot of information about the topic out there. I don't think there is even a book that would have that kind of information. Like when Hermione said that in the book she found, all it said was (and I'm paraphrasing here b/c I can't remember the exact quote) that it is so dark that they dare not go further than just mentioning it. And that's when she gets all upset saying "well why mention it at all?" I have a feeling horcruxes aren't something that a lot of people know about, much less understand. It's probably a word of mouth type thing because it's an act so obscure that there's just not enough information to create any kind of definitive book about them.

 

[U2_rocks!]

Also, Rickman is the perfect Snape...I've heard many argue that he is way too old. True, but I can't imagine anyone else, he's perfect if you suspend your imagination a bit.

I find that, as Snape, he looks younger than in real life - I can believe he's in his 40s, in a very weathered sort of way! His black main of hair that's always falling into his face sort of hides the wrinkles!

 

[AuroraBorealis]

va32h, do you write for mugglenet? Seriously, though, very valid reasoning. Best explanation of not-being-a-horcrux I've heard. Just got me thinking though...

On another note, Harry does have part of Voldemort in him, but it's an intellectual part; Parseltongue, and an limited Legillimency that allows him see into Voldemort's brain. But Harry's soul remains intact and pure.

I just have to wonder how certain properties were passed on and not others. I see it as more of Voldemort's powers rather than intellect. Voldemort marked Harry as his equal and indeed Harry can do many things Voldemort can do (parseltongue, etc) but at the same time, Harry seems to struggle with this-- for example: Harry doesn't seem to have grasped legillimency very well.

If Voldemort cannot bear to possess a soul as pure as Harry's (as seen in the confrontation at the Ministry of Magic, it was unbearably painful for Voldemort and Harry to occupy the same body); how can a piece of Voldemort's soul be happily residing in Harry all this while?

So I do think it is possible for Harry to share intellectual powers with Voldemort, and not be a horcrux.

This raises another question for me; do you think it is because of the choices Harry has made to remain good? We've seen Voldemort possess other wizards (Quirrell, for example) and talk of possessing others (Wormtail) and not have a problem. Did Quirrell come to possess any Voldemort powers such as parseltongue?

I'm just trying to figure out where the line is regarding soul-possession verses shared powers. How could such powers be passed on without passing on a vital bit of the original owner? Would it be possible for such a small sliver of Voldemort to reside in Harry that it could rest until it was joined by another, more fully developed piece?

I'm not really arguing for or against Horcrux Harry here-- just puzzling out the logistics...

 

[va32h]

Ah, I hate to say it...I do, I do...but

I think the horcruxes are soooooo boring

So, I really have nothing to add. I really DREAD that book 7 will be Harry Potter and all the Damn Horcruxes...*sigh*

I can't wait for book 7, but am secretly scared that there will be loose ends, or that it will be all horcruxes, or that certain people will die that I want to live, or that it won't end right...ha ha.

Also, Rickman is the perfect Snape...I've heard many argue that he is way too old. True, but I can't imagine anyone else, he's perfect if you suspend your imagination a bit.

I think "Harry Potter and All the Damned Horcruxes" is an excellent alternate title. I read a very funny essay somewhere online by a guy who pretty much agreed with you. He suggested that Harry just round up all the horcruxes and put them in a big sack, get Voldemort to chase him through the Department of Mysteries, run into the room with the Veil, and sprint towards it. But just as Harry reaches the veil, he throws the sack of horcruxes into it, and leaps away to the side. Voldemort is running too fast to stop, and he pitches himself into the veil, in the manner of a Bugs Bunny type cartoon.

Okay, it was a lot funner in the original essay, I am paraphrasing badly!

The info is probably found very easily in Knockturn Alley. Though the Weasleys manage to keep their kids out of there, we've already seen the Malfoy family in there, and we know due to the last book that Voldemort's first job was there.
You can probably find any of the 'banned' things there.

I agree with the others who have said that horcruxes are still obscure and evil enough to be rare, even in Knockturn Alley. None of the Death Eaters seem to realize that Voldie has horcruxes - they don't even know how he survived after Godric's Hollow. If info on Horcruxes were easily available in Knockturn Alley, I would expect Lucius Malfoy to know about it, and Malfoy was the first one to ask Voldemort how he was able to return in GoF.

However, I do think Borgin and Burke are exactly the oily types who deal in the darkest of dark magic. And since Tom Riddle worked for them, selling and acquiring dark objects, I could see a scenario where a customer brings in an interesting book that mentions horcruxes, and Riddle peruses it, and gets ideas...

 

[JunieJay]

Did someone mention Alan Rickman?

I have to stop and ask myself as I'm reading the book - "would I like this character if he weren't played by Alan Rickman?" I'd tolerate Snape a lot less if he weren't made so likeable (and to put it bluntly sexy) by Rickman.

 

[WeirdTigger27]

Alan Rickman is definatly a great Snape. i can't imagine anyone else. he's just SO weird, it's so great! and you really can't tell that he's 60, he still looks the part. my sister(along with i'm sure millions of other people) has the HUGEST crush on him as Snape. and ONLY Snape. it's a little strange lol.

I think it's the bad boy thing. He lives in dungeons after all. It should be him with the whips and things not Filtch!!!

 

[Figment22]

The Locket - either Kreacher has it hidden somewhere at 12 Grimmauld Place or Mundungus Fletcher (**who should be played by Bob Hoskins in the movie, IMO) stole it, and Harry needs to get it back from him.

I picture Bob Hoskins as Horace Slughorn.

Voldemort is poofed into Vapormort

I'm on the fence about Harry (or the scar) being an accidental horcrux. Certainly, there was a sufficient killing for a horcrux to be made. We know that Lily's love for Harry saved him-- perhaps love interacting with the AK curse had the side effect of creating a horcrux? Or a horcrux-like object? Harry definitely has part of Voldemort in him-- could this be possible without being a horcrux?

I find this very interesting. Perhaps there is an opposite to a Horcrux? Is it not just Lily's love, but a part of Lily's soul that remains in Harry?

I think we'll be finding that out in book 7. Or at least get the information that is relevent to the plot. JKR has been so evasive when asked about Grindewald that I think there has to be some stuff that will be coming out in book 7 that will clear up and answer the questions we've had about him and how he relates to the events that are occuring now.

Has Grindelwald actually been mentioned in any of the HP books other than the information from Dumbledore's wizard card that's in the chocolate frogs?

And when Hermione is researching them she is very frustrated because of the incredibly limited amount of information available on horcruxes.

The wizarding world needs Google! (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

Has Grindelwald actually been mentioned in any of the HP books other than the information from Dumbledore's wizard card that's in the chocolate frogs?

Briefly. Just in passing I think. The only reason I mentioned it though is because in the Mugglenet interview with JKR they asked her if Grindewald is important to the plot and she wouldn't give a straight answer. So that's when I started theorizing about Grindewald maybe having attempted to create a horcrux but not being successful at it because DD defeated him.

The wizarding world needs Google! (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

That would be awesome I can just imagine the excitement Hermione would feel having all that information at her disposal, just a click away!

 

[va32h]

choices[/U] Harry has made to remain good? We've seen Voldemort possess other wizards (Quirrell, for example) and talk of possessing others (Wormtail) and not have a problem. Did Quirrell come to possess any Voldemort powers such as parseltongue?

I'm just trying to figure out where the line is regarding soul-possession verses shared powers. How could such powers be passed on without passing on a vital bit of the original owner? Would it be possible for such a small sliver of Voldemort to reside in Harry that it could rest until it was joined by another, more fully developed piece?

I'm not really arguing for or against Horcrux Harry here-- just puzzling out the logistics...

Of course the cynical answer is that Harry shares whatever power with Voldemort that is convenient for the plot...

And to a certain extent, that's not an entirely invalid answer. I think JKR's world is so well-realized that it is easy to forget that she has to do some things for the book's sake. The prime example - everyone asks "why did Moody have to turn the Triwizard Cup into a Portkey, instead of say, Harry's toothbrush." Well there are a lot of good reasons within the HP world, but another reason is simply that there would be no story if Harry was portkeyed away to the graveyard on page 6.

Anyway, back to the other questions. I guess I see intellect/magical power as essentially the same thing.

We don't really know what kind of Legillimens Harry could be - Snape was only trying to teach him Occlumency, which Harry is far too emotional to do well. I think that the scar itself provided Harry a window into Voldemort's thoughts - one which V. himself had to close after OoTP because V. could no longer tolerate the connection.

But Harry does seem to be acquiring a certain perceptiveness that might be the beginnings of a talent for Legillimency?

For your second question, yes I thoroughly believe that it is Harry's choices that have made him so good. Dumbledore points out that Tom Riddle and Harry had very similar upbringings, but made radically different choices upon entering Hogwarts. Although Harry had every reason to be bitter, vengeful, and miserable, he chose to be hopeful, inquisitive, open.

Quirrell did not seem to be evil, just weak-spirited. Wormtail is a quivering coward and easy to manipulate. Did they have Voldemort's powers when he was possessing them? I don't think so. Quirrell always spoke of V. as "my master" suggesting that Quirrell was still in control of his faculties. At that point V. seemed to be just a voice in Quirrell's head.

I don't think those two were "possessed" in the sense of having their soul crowded out by Voldemort, but that he was controlling their mind - because they were both so ineffectual that they couldn't just follow his orders. Does that make sense?

Now someone who was truly "possessed" by V. was Ginny. While in this state, her own mind/soul/whatever was entirely out of the picture. She didn't remember any of the things Tom Riddle did using her body. She could speak Parseltongue, but it was TR's ability using her voice.

Which makes me wonder why Ginny soul is not too pure for Tom Riddle? I suppose 16 year old Tom Riddle is not quite as evil as Voldemort, so the gulf between Good Ginny and Bad Tom is not as wide. Or perhaps Ginny is pure of heart but weak of will, so she can still be overpowered. Or - going back to the whole choices thing - Ginny is a good person, but her "goodness" has never really been tested. She was born into a happy, loving family, she has always known who she was and where she belonged. She has no reason not to be a good person, no active choice to make to be good.

 

[SueM in MN]

that could definatly be a possibility, because there's speculation that Tom had already made a Horcrux at that point, with the ring. he had already killed Tom Sr. and that whole family.

Yes. What he seemed to me to want was confirmation/an opinion about whether a wizard would be able to split his soul into more than one piece.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

Quirrell did not seem to be evil, just weak-spirited. Wormtail is a quivering coward and easy to manipulate. Did they have Voldemort's powers when he was possessing them? It's hard to say. Quirrell always spoke of V. as "my master" suggesting that Quirrell was still in control of his faculties. At that point V. seemed to be just a voice in Quirrell's head.

I don't think those two were "possessed" in the sense of having their soul crowded out by Voldemort, but that he was controlling their mind - because they were both so ineffectual that they couldn't just follow his orders. Does that make sense?

That was my line of thinking as well. They were not possessed, just easily manipulated. They are both weak individuals who seek any bit of recognition and importance they can get. That is especially true of Wormtail as we saw the way he clung to James, Sirius, and Lupin in their Hogwarts days. So when Voldemort came 'round it was very easy for him to lure them into his world and manipulate them to get what he needed. They were willing participants.

I think the reason Harry obtained some of Voldemort's capabilities was mostly because they shared a magical connection when he tried to kill him as a baby and then again when their wands connected in GoF. And as DD said in that book, Harry's ability to see into Voldemorts's mind was purely accidental and obviously not something he wanted Harry to be able to do.

 

[Daxx]

The other date I'd considered was 10/31/07 as we know that what happened in Godric's Hollow that day will be pivotal and finally revealed in the book.

Hmmm ... quite interesting theory on that release date!

 

[UnderTheMistletoe]

The memory of LV being in DD's office, in which HP wanted to call out to DD, made me wonder (after learning of the Horcruxes) if one was in DD's office. Hogwarts was LV's only real home and, perhaps, that gesture that HP saw was whatever it took to create the curse. Could it be then that the Sword would be a horcrux?

I thought DD said that it was not. Something to the effect that Gryffindor's only known relcis were the sword and Sorting Hat. He said that the Sword had been safely in his/someone's possession all along. JKR dismissed the Sorting Hat idea saying that horcruxes do not drawn attention to themselves in large crowds by singing and speaking. So, I do not think it's either of those items becuase we've always been able to trust DD in the past.

i know she's mentioned something about it being significant that the Potter's lived in Godric's Hollow, and that Godric is indeed named after Godric Gryffindor.

This was suggested elsewhere and is not entirely my own. What if DD is related to Gryffindor? The sword being in his possession would definitely suggest it. Moreover, there is some importance to the Headmaster's/Headmistress' paintings in the office. What if one was hanging in the house the Potters were hiding in and could report back to DD. It would help explain how DD learned of their deaths so quickly, as well, but was unable to intervene.

that's true. i'm wondering where he got the book from, then? because i don't think they'd sell it anywhere near Hogwarts for that simple reason.

I was going to say Knockturn Alley... seems many others had the same idea. There is a significance in the way Knockturn Alley was introduced- that Harry used the Floo Powder and ended up in Borgin and Burke's with the Malfoys- and that it is really the only thing we've known about Knockturn Alley. It's where Draco went about the Vanishing Cabinet. It's where LV worked. We know nothing about any other part of Knockturn Alley. It seems too deliberate.

I think the reason Harry obtained some of Voldemort's capabilities was mostly because they shared a magical connection when he tried to kill him as a baby and then again when their wands connected in GoF.

Leads me to believe their final battle is not going to be about wands. We've seen that it will not work.

What about the Mirror of Erised as a horcrux? In it's description, it's mentioned to have clawed feet. What if that is Reavenclaw's relic? JKR said in an interview that we have come in contact with all the horcruxes and that a careful reader could pick up on them.

A run down-

Locket- hopefully destroyed by R.A.B. or in Kreacher's (I love the name!) possession and Harry can get ahold of it
Tom Riddle's Diary- destroyed; I don't think Lucius Malfoy knew it was a horcrux, as I'm not convinced he would have treated it so carelessly if he did- he also seemed surprised when LV returned in GoF
Slytherin's Ring- destroyed
Nagini- because DD said so
Hufflepuff's Cup- again, because DD said so; I don't know why LV would have killed Helzipbah (sp!?) otherwise.
The part still in LV's body- 7 horcruxes, but only 6 items

Speculation-
Mirror or Erised- could be Ravenclaw's based on description; would bring everything together from books 1-7, as well.
The tiara- Weasley's or the one mentioned in the Room of Requirement when Harry hides the HBP's Potions book.

ETA: WHat about the "dream" JKR described about searching for the horcrux on the website recently? A wild goose chase or a real clue?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Of course the cynical answer is that Harry shares whatever power with Voldemort that is convenient for the plot...

LOL! True, true...

For your second question, yes I thoroughly believe that it is Harry's choices that have made him so good. Dumbledore points out that Tom Riddle and Harry had very similar upbringings, but made radically different choices upon entering Hogwarts. Although Harry had every reason to be bitter, vengeful, and miserable, he chose to be hopeful, inquisitive, open.

I'm sorry. My original question wasn't very clear. Just had my wisdom teeth pulled and...la la la...painkillers...not everything is coming out as intended! But anyway-- essentially what you said was what I was getting at. I'll be more coherent in a few days....

Now someone who was truly "possessed" by V. was Ginny. While in this state, her own mind/soul/whatever was entirely out of the picture. She didn't remember any of the things Tom Riddle did using her body.

Which makes me wonder why Ginny soul is not too pure for Tom Riddle?

Maybe because she was an unwilling participant? Tom couldn't reveal he was V to her; she clearly would not choose the promise of power Quirrell fell for. Quirrell was more than willing to share his soul and body with V. Ginny is also not intimately connected with V like Harry is--that may have a lot to do with it. Perhaps that connection in a soul as pure as Harry's makes it impossible for the evil part of the connection to reside with the good. Lily's blood may also be protecting Harry and V can't reside in a body with that protection. There are many ways this could be explained....very thought provoking...

 

[Daxx]

Did someone mention Alan Rickman?

I have to stop and ask myself as I'm reading the book - "would I like this character if he weren't played by Alan Rickman?" I'd tolerate Snape a lot less if he weren't made so likeable (and to put it bluntly sexy) by Rickman.

Yes, yes, yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Leads me to believe their final battle is not going to be about wands. We've seen that it will not work.

I'd love to see Harry and Voldemort engage in a little hand-to-hand combat! Maybe Neville will save the day with some killer, never-before-seen ninja skills!

I think wands will be involved somehow. I feel as if JKR has made them too significant not to be, especially since the core is from Fawke's tail. Phoenix symbolism is all over the place. That might make an interesting future topic.

ETA: WHat about the "dream" JKR described about searching for the horcrux on the website recently? A wild goose chase or a real clue?

Maybe just the build-up of the last 12 or so years of planning and writing... I started dreaming about my Master's thesis and I had only been working on it for a year! HBP did set up a horcrux hunt for book 7, though.

 

[va32h]

I'd love to see Harry and Voldemort engage in a little hand-to-hand combat! Maybe Neville will save the day with some killer, never-before-seen ninja skills!

I think wands will be involved somehow. I feel as if JKR has made them too significant not to be, especially since the core is from Fawke's tail. Phoenix symbolism is all over the place. That might make an interesting future topic.

Don't discount a wand duel between Harry and Voldemort. Just because their wands can't duel each other doesn't mean they can't with different wands. Ollivander has mysteriously disappeared - is he being forced to make Voldie a new wand?

Or could Harry use someone else's wand - hmmm, who bought the last wand Ollivander sold before disappearing...Neville!

I've always thought it would be suitably ironic for Voldemort to die by some Muggle method. He prides himself on being a superior wizard, how humiliating would it be for him to die like an ordinary Muggle. But I don't even know if it's possible for a wizard to be killed by a Muggle weapon.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

I've always thought it would be suitably ironic for Voldemort to die by some Muggle method. He prides himself on being a superior wizard, how humiliating would it be for him to die like an ordinary Muggle. But I don't even know if it's possible for a wizard to be killed by a Muggle weapon.

Well if they destroy all the horcruxes it will cause Voldemort to very rapidly deteriorate. He will definitely not have the power he has at this point in time. If his body is in a weakened state I think it would certainly be possible for him to die via a Muggle weapon. JKR has never said that it's not possible so who knows. But talk about some sweet karma! He'd probably come back as a ghost just to spite everyone though

 

[va32h]

Well if they destroy all the horcruxes it will cause Voldemort to very rapidly deteriorate. He will definitely not have the power he has at this point in time. If his body is in a weakened state I think it would certainly be possible for him to die via a Muggle weapon. JKR has never said that it's not possible so who knows. But talk about some sweet karma! He'd probably come back as a ghost just to spite everyone though

What if Voldemort lived, but was stripped of all his magical powers? I think he'd consider that a fate worse than death.

A more logical possibility is that he could have his last piece of soul sucked out by a Dementor. If the Order found some way to round up all the Dementors for example, and then threw Voldie into their midst - like the way Simba threw Scar into the canyon full of hyenas...