Minor child used my debit card online....

[Brit17]

I think you are getting good advice. However, I'm really worried about Grandma if you leave him with her. Honestly, it sounds like punishment for her. Good luck. You have your hands full but at least you know about it all.

Thinking about it, sure, bring him to Disney, he rides nothing..gets no souviners, and is basically just along cause he has to be. He has no input on where or what you do..

I was thinking the exact same things ... I would also ask his therapist for their opinion regarding punishment ...

 

[Robindianne]

First, ((hugs))
Then stop, deep breath and step back for a day or so. Yes, I know you think I am crazy. Here's the thing, you MUST follow through on any punishments you threaten. So be very SURE you will follow through before you mention any punishments.
In my house, no computers without a "net nanny" and then used ONLY for school. No games, facebook, chat, etc.
I doubt you will get the money back...so he will have to earn it. And I wouldn't pay a nine year old minimum wage.
WDW is up to you, if this is a family vacation, well you are still a family. But I'd sure be clear that the trip is a FAMILY VACATION, not a reprieve for him. He'd be back at work once the vacation is over. If you leave him with grandparents are they prepared to deal with his behavior? I'd be sure and advise them to lock all purses etc in a closet or the trunk of the car or something. And no computer use.
The bigger issues are why he thought this was ok....I'd call the therapist asap.

Ah. Good advice.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Holy moly, this was my first thought. I don't care how brilliant he is, you are not born understanding how to do stuff like this, and you don't learn it by playing on kid online gaming sites.

OP, you need to investigate his online communications. Don't count on cutting him off from communicating online by getting control of your own computer... remember he might be able to get online at a friend's, at school, on an older kid's Blackberry.

And if you want to secure your home computer, don't take the keyboard (virtual keyboard easily available.) Take the power cord.

Don't discount the possibility of a remote keylogger (controlled by El Thiefo online-mentor-buddy) capturing your every password as you change them.

Some kids brains just work that way, though. I can see my youngest doing this all on his own, if he were not afraid of retribution. He's very smart and just is able to apply what he's learned to new situations.

But, you're right, she should be sure to look into it.

 

[disneyfans95]

Not throwing stones, but the OP made a mistake as she stated. Not watching the son etc etc

So this is the price though for that. Why should vendors be out of money owed (those points for various games etc would be used and not refundable back to the vendor).

Again, OP knows they messed up (which I am sorry for them and understand), but there is a price to pay for it.

 

[Halloweenqueen]

I understand the mom thinks he is showing no remorse. It's a tough thing for a child that age to show appropriate remorse. He may be confused and embarassed, etc, but not understand the seriousness of his actions.

I don't think this is a sign of a troubled future. Not to flame the OP, but I always know what website my kid is on. I have the kid's computer in the area between the living room and kitchen. The screen faces the room, not the wall. I have lots of security protection programs on the computer. The kids have a list of approved sites. Anything new has to be approved. All online games allow parents to give parental control passwords. I set up parental controls before my children are allowed to play those games. (even free trails can eventually lead to paid areas, so set up controls with establishing a membership or account).

All memberships are verified by email. My kids do not have their own email accounts. All membership information is sent to my email so I can verify it.

I have 5 kids with a huge variety of interest and tastes. It isn't hard to keep track of their accounts.

 

[SingingMUA]

Like others have stated, my thought would be to cancel his WDW trip also...

Thinking about it, sure, bring him to Disney, he rides nothing..gets no souviners, and is basically just along cause he has to be. He has no input on where or what you do..

I think if his trip DOESN'T get cancelled, then this would be a good way to handle it.

For those recommending he go to WDW and get no souvenirs, no rides, etc., it seems that it would put a cloud over the rest of the family's trip (punishing the rest of the family), and constantly remind the whole family of the issue during what should be a fun family time? It also seems that it would be really hard for the parents to enforce during the trip.

In light of the crime he committed, I don't feel he would really deserve "fun family time". While it might put a bit of a damper on the trip for the rest of the family, I think it would be yet another consequence of his actions. What he did was serious, not just some minor little annoyance. I think the family would still be reminded of the issue no matter what they decided to do (let him go and have fun, let him go and have no fun, not let him go). I do agree that it could become difficult to enforce during the trip.

Hugs OP I know it's not an easy situation to be in.

 

[JVL1018]

A couple of years ago when my daughter was 8, she took my credit card and entered it in at Club Penguin for something. It was $5. Not even 10 minutes later she came over and confessed all, crying her eyes out.
I had no clue, so I really don't know why she caved, but regardless-I made her pay me back and I banned her from Club Penguin(for 2 years- I just started letting her play there again).
ETA: She is an amazing kid, all As in school, notes from every single teacher she's had saying that she is an outstanding example to other children in the class, has good friends and a good head on her shoulders-honestly you could not ask for more in a child-so just because a kid does something bad doesn't mean they are a bad kid. Follow your heart as well as your head in regards to punishment, you know your son best.

I used to take quarters from my dad's change jar for candy, so maybe childhood thievery runs in my family and it was payback.

The first part(using my debit card) would anger me, the no remorse and the lying would seriously worry me.

I would definitely look into therapy and I would absolutely NOT leave any child of mine out of a family trip, even for something like this. JMO
I would not give him any spending money for extra treats though.

 

[MiniGirl]

OP, it sounds like you have everything under control. My only thought would be to not let him use birthday money or any money that was GIVEN to him to pay you back. I think he should only be allowed to pay you back with money he earned. Handing over money that he had to do nothing to get is too easy.

About WDW, I'll be honest with you. I'd leaning toward bringing him along. Leaving him home with grandma forces her to have to dish out his punishment, and I don't think that is fair to her. Also, you couldn't really be sure she'd do it. I think many grandparents would take them out for ice cream and other special treats because not going on the family vacation would be punishment enough. I also wouldn't want to make WDW miserable for him because that would punish the whole family. I know sometimes the whole family does have to pay for one member's actions, but I don't know if I'd make the whole trip about that.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

Holy moly, this was my first thought. I don't care how brilliant he is, you are not born understanding how to do stuff like this, and you don't learn it by playing on kid online gaming sites.

OP, you need to investigate his online communications. Don't count on cutting him off from communicating online by getting control of your own computer... remember he might be able to get online at a friend's, at school, on an older kid's Blackberry.

And if you want to secure your home computer, don't take the keyboard (virtual keyboard easily available.) Take the power cord.

Don't discount the possibility of a remote keylogger (controlled by El Thiefo online-mentor-buddy) capturing your every password as you change them.

Not knowing all the accounts and passwords may also point to a 2nd party involved. 'El thiefo' (love the term) may have set up the accounts for him using your card info that he gave him. His hemming and hawing may not be because he just doesn't want to give you the info, but that he doesn't know it and doesn't want to reveal an even bigger problem - he was also a victim.

He was definitely wrong in stealing, no doubt about that, but I would give dollars to donuts with all the complicated stuff you said he did, that he has also fallen victim to somebody preying on kids, kids that may be already susceptible to the suggestion of stealing Mom's debit card.

The online games and chat rooms are not exactly the safest place from child predators. Predators have been known on occasion to visit and befriend kids in kid chat rooms. And it doesn't have to always be sexual predators.

I would definitely have the therapist try to dig to see if your son was being helped by anybody. And I suggest the therapist, because just like a sexual predator, the son may have been threatened if he told, or was made to feel guilty if the other party is caught. If there is a second party, then you have a criminal case to go to the police with.

But at the very least, lI would still put a watch on your identity through the credit bureaus,

 

[Tinker'n'Fun]

I asked him this question.... he gulped and then said that I was the parent! He didn't want to answer that.....

Perhaps we should tell him that he is NOT going to WDW until he gives me all computer account information & password, INCLUDING the accounts he claims he "cancelled". Then together we will go online to see if this information is correct. I could then communicate with these companies to confirm that this "was" his account and that I, as his legal guardian and parent, have a right to see all of his transactions! Perhaps that fact alone will help him "remember" what the passwords were! He's much too smart to "forget" anything, much less a password of something he loves doing!

I checked today and the last transaction he made on my debit card/checking account was on June 14, 2010. It will be the last once my card is cancelled today!

Therapist appointment made. DH is thinking about calling the local police office and perhaps arranging a visit to the local Juvenille detention center so he can see where he's headed if he doesn't straighten out!!!!!!!!!!!

Please keep sending me ideas, especially if you had to deal with a child like this.... I never had to deal with anything like this before - and hope I never have to again!

My thoughts are that you are still considering letting him go to Disney. I wouldn't even blink an eye to keeping my child home if they did this. And the other poster who said that 9yo's have no concept of money have not met the 9yo's in our area. He did the crime, time to do the time appropiately. This is one time you can't go back on your word and be soft on the punishment.

Adding more as I just finished with the other responses. I don't think Grandma should have to watch him either. I would stay home myself if it were my son. Punishment is hard on everyone in a family. But if the OP has other children, then one parent goes and one stays home. Also, I realize it sounds very very harsh, but I don't see this getting any better. Hopefully the counselor can shed some light on the actual situation and what they expect for the Disney trip. Hopefully the OP finds a good counselor who she can agree with on all aspects of punishment (or even lack of depending on the diagnosis) and work with them closely for the sake of her DS. My thoughts are with you, hope it works out soon for you.

 

[pilesoflaundry]

For those recommending he go to WDW and get no souvenirs, no rides, etc., it seems that it would put a cloud over the rest of the family's trip (punishing the rest of the family), and constantly remind the whole family of the issue during what should be a fun family time? It also seems that it would be really hard for the parents to enforce during the trip.

It doesn't have to. I can easily walk into a store and buy something for myself, my other kids and not for the punished one. It's effective punishment. I don't let their punishment punish me. Leaving him home punishes grandma and she may not follow through as much as mom.

I didn't think about an online predator but it makes a lot of sense. I would check into that. My kids have told me people will ask for their password online or tell them if they do this website or go to this email or do xyz they can get free xbox points or club penguin things when really this person is trying to hack their info.

I have drilled into their heads 8000 times internet safety, that nothing is really free and people can and will hack you and steal everything. I even had a friend at gamestop tell them the truth about xbox live and what can happen if you listen to these people in chat. It helped.

We focus on teaching our kids about sexual predators but we also have to protect them from scammers and jerks who think it's funny to hack a kid.

My son is very intelligent and figured out how to work the computer as a toddler but I'm still not sure at 9 he could sign up for his own paypal account and be smart enough to say he was over 18 without someone older telling him to.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

I understand the mom thinks he is showing no remorse. It's a tough thing for a child that age to show appropriate remorse. He may be confused and embarassed, etc, but not understand the seriousness of his actions.

I don't think this is a sign of a troubled future. Not to flame the OP, but I always know what website my kid is on. I have the kid's computer in the area between the living room and kitchen. The screen faces the room, not the wall. I have lots of security protection programs on the computer. The kids have a list of approved sites. Anything new has to be approved. All online games allow parents to give parental control passwords. I set up parental controls before my children are allowed to play those games. (even free trails can eventually lead to paid areas, so set up controls with establishing a membership or account).

All memberships are verified by email. My kids do not have their own email accounts. All membership information is sent to my email so I can verify it.

I have 5 kids with a huge variety of interest and tastes. It isn't hard to keep track of their accounts.

I wouldn't be so quick to be so sure of yourself.

As the OP's 9 year old demonstrated, it is very easy to go to yahoo, aol, gmail, etc to set up their own e-mail account. And if they did it at a friend's house, at school, on a friend's internet access phone from just about anywhere, you would not know about it.

Once they have the e-mail account, they can easily reroute the e-mails to their e-mail account.

In today's technological world, never, ever be sure that you know everything your kid is doing online. Even if you have your home computers under tight security, there are way too many ways to get online outside of the home to make it easy for kids who are determined to circumvent family rules.

If a kid wants to do it, they probably can.

 

[gina2000]

I feel like there is a huge disconnect in a child's mind between having money and what it takes to have it. I know my son just assumed you took out a card, went to a machine, and money popped out. How the money got into your account, how it got out of the machine were irrelevant. Just having the money and doing what you want with it were all that mattered. I think your son may have some of that comprehension difficulty also. I would sit down and explain the mechanics of debit cards/credit cards/where money comes from/how to earn it, etc., etc.

My guess is that he was aping your behavior, having watched you purchase items online. Kids are focused on electronics and I can imagine him following your behavior to create his own on-line access.

Now having said that, the devious means your son took to get what he wants is another problem. I don't think I would ever expect a child to remove a card from my wallet and use it. That's where I would have the problem. And that's where I would focus my efforts in helping my son decide whether or not it was appropriate behavior. I would expect him to pay back the money through working around the house. I also wouldn't disallow computer usage but would instead insist on close monitoring of his computer time. If he truly is as talented as he sounds, I would encourage his skills....and get him some more computer courses....as well as a course on ethics as soon as possible (be it through church study, bible study, school, etc.)

If you've had problems with him in the past, a therapist is a must. He needs to learn socially acceptable behavior as well as ethics and morals in the computer age. He needs to discover and understand redemption after commiting a terrible error.

Lastly, I wouldn't alienate him from a family vacation. He has already alienated himself from you because of his behavior. He needs to know you still love him and can forgive him.

 

[pilesoflaundry]

I wouldn't be so quick to be so sure of yourself.

As the OP's 9 year old demonstrated, it is very easy to go to yahoo, aol, gmail, etc to set up their own e-mail account. And if they did it at a friend's house, at school, on a friend's internet access phone from just about anywhere, you would not know about it.

Once they have the e-mail account, they can easily reroute the e-mails to their e-mail account.

True but if mom is truly paying attention and knows the child has been on the website but hasn't gotten any email activity recently then you log in and see what email the info is going to and if it's different or not your email then you find what they are up to.

It's not just setting up the programs to catch the child, it's monitoring the program yourself to make sure it's working. I have everything set up to my email also to know what is going on and I check it enough to know if they changed anything. In turn if they did, they know they lose privileges so don't take advantage of the room I gave you to play.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

True but if mom is truly paying attention and knows the child has been on the website but hasn't gotten any email activity recently then you log in and see what email the info is going to and if it's different or not your email then you find what they are up to.

It's not just setting up the programs to catch the child, it's monitoring the program yourself to make sure it's working. I have everything set up to my email also to know what is going on and I check it enough to know if they changed anything. In turn if they did, they know they lose privileges so don't take advantage of the room I gave you to play.

I absolutely agree with you. It is very important to monitor and the above is very effective.

However, the child bright enough and determined enough to circumvent the rules is bright enough to realize that you don't play the games Mom and Dad are monitoring at home.

As a parent, you just need to remember to be one step ahead of technology and kids and always realize what is available out there. Do not become comfortable that just because you don't allow your child an e-mail account means that they cannot create one elsewhere not under your supervision.

 

[pilesoflaundry]

I absolutely agree with you. It is very important to monitor and the above is very effective.

However, the child bright enough and determined enough to circumvent the rules is bright enough to realize that you don't play the games Mom and Dad are monitoring at home.

As a parent, you just need to remember to be one step ahead of technology and kids and always realize what is available out there. Do not become comfortable that just because you don't allow your child an e-mail account means that they cannot create one elsewhere not under your supervision.

I agree. Good points. Now remove that bad parent button, sounds like you are on the ball .

 

[Tinker'n'Fun]

I wouldn't be so quick to be so sure of yourself.

As the OP's 9 year old demonstrated, it is very easy to go to yahoo, aol, gmail, etc to set up their own e-mail account. And if they did it at a friend's house, at school, on a friend's internet access phone from just about anywhere, you would not know about it.

Once they have the e-mail account, they can easily reroute the e-mails to their e-mail account.

In today's technological world, never, ever be sure that you know everything your kid is doing online. Even if you have your home computers under tight security, there are way too many ways to get online outside of the home to make it easy for kids who are determined to circumvent family rules.

If a kid wants to do it, they probably can.

I agree 100%. In our little circle here, we call the parents who think that their kids don't/can't have access to outside influences because they are constantly watching are: NIMBYs. (not in my back yard parents)

 

[Cooky]

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[Sandy V.]

Lastly, I wouldn't alienate him from a family vacation. He has already alienated himself from you because of his behavior. He needs to know you still love him and can forgive him.

My thoughts exactly. Maybe it's because as my kids get older and we don't do as many family vacations any more, but I personally would NEVER punish my child by withholding a family vacation. YMMV. There seem to be more than enough other ways to give him consequences.

Good luck, and I'm so sorry this happened.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

This is my thought. Over and over thats all I can think of. Where the heck did he learn how to do all that?

It's not exactly difficult to plug in a cc# and even if they ask for the extra numbers, they usually have a link telling you where to find them on the back of the card. Other wise you just plug in the name on the card and the address associated with it, which is usually the home address.

If you can figure out how to set up an account online, you can figure out how to buy something online. You are usually given step by step instructions on everything. And in the case of the games, they tend to make it easy to spend your money with them. It's not exactly rocket science.

I would definitely think that full repayment is in order. He definitely needs to learn the lesson that debit card money is real money that must be earned.

I would also think that punishment beyond making you whole is called for. I think leaving him home while the rest of the family goes to Disney, while perhaps just, is a bad idea as it would seem to send a signal that he's an outcast. I would emphasize that you love him and still want him to be a family member in good standing, but that he needs to make restitution. I would lean towards repayment with interest or some form of community service work instead of trip ban.

I agree. This is something my parents would have done. I think keeping him from the trip would make him feel as though he's not wanted and not part of the family. But, I would make sure on the trip that he didn't get any extras and lost all priveledges. If he wants something beyond what the family is already getting, do not get it for him. Try not to make is quite as fun and make sure he knows why.
At home, he gets no privacy and no access to any electronics beyond necessary. He gets no fun time or stuff until he somehow works off his debt.