Minor child used my debit card online....

[dislaney]

I think the therapy is a great idea. If he is doing this at 9 and doesn't feel remorse, I'd hate to think what he will be doing in his teen years. I agree about the paying back the money but I do think I'd take him on the trip, he is still part of the family. Good luck!

 

[Mickey's Minion]

First, ((hugs))
Then stop, deep breath and step back for a day or so. Yes, I know you think I am crazy. Here's the thing, you MUST follow through on any punishments you threaten. So be very SURE you will follow through before you mention any punishments.
In my house, no computers without a "net nanny" and then used ONLY for school. No games, facebook, chat, etc.
I doubt you will get the money back...so he will have to earn it. And I wouldn't pay a nine year old minimum wage.
WDW is up to you, if this is a family vacation, well you are still a family. But I'd sure be clear that the trip is a FAMILY VACATION, not a reprieve for him. He'd be back at work once the vacation is over. If you leave him with grandparents are they prepared to deal with his behavior? I'd be sure and advise them to lock all purses etc in a closet or the trunk of the car or something. And no computer use.
The bigger issues are why he thought this was ok....I'd call the therapist asap.

I would also think that punishment beyond making you whole is called for. I think leaving him home while the rest of the family goes to Disney, while perhaps just, is a bad idea as it would seem to send a signal that he's an outcast. I would emphasize that you love him and still want him to be a family member in good standing, but that he needs to make restitution. I would lean towards repayment with interest or some form of community service work instead of trip ban.

First of all, this.^ ^ ^

I would seriously consider getting your son involved in a computer programming class once his computer privileges are reinstated. He has amazing talents for a 9 y/o.

Secondly - what he did shows an amazing understanding of not only computer, but how accounts works. Using a stolen debit card to just pay for purchases I can see a street smart 9 year old being able to do that. However, it takes a few more steps to actually set up a paypal account, assign the debit card, set up fake e-mail accounts, etc.

I would seriously be taking into consideration that he is being "mentored" by somebody older - maybe somebody he met online. This person also may have all your account information.

I would run, not walk to the therapist.
I would also be contacting the three credit agencies and put a watch on my id. It will make it more difficult for you to open credit anywhere, but it will also require a phone call to you if anybody else tries to open anything under your name.

I would also add that sometimes a debit/credit card is often harder to comprehend as "real" money for a young person. It is harder to understand how real cash is actually tied to the debit card.

So, in the interest of teaching him credit cards/debit cards, I would set up his repayment via a family debit card. Pay him for his chores in cash. Put that cash in a glass jar that he cannot touch - label it the bank, or something that he recognizes as "his" money. Issue him a "debit" to pay you off. Each time he charges something, make a visible showing of taking the cash from the jar.

I also would not take all his cash for the payback. Let him earn it by hard manual labor, but to make it harder for him, let him keep a bit of the cash each time. If he pays everything back, it is easy to look at it as easy come-easy go. If he keeps a little bit in the jar for himself, but has to pay more of it out to you, it makes more of an impression of how much faster "his" money would have gone if he could save more of it each pay period. You are then teaching two lessons at a time. He has to pay for his obligations and two, how difficult it is to earn money and save it for what he really wants.

 

[lovesmurfs]

He is 9. Kids today have no concept of money. I could understand a severe punishment for a teenager, but not that young. Plus paying real money online doesn't feel the same as handing someone paper money. I would call it stealing if he grabbed a check out of your purse, or money out of a wallet.

I know it is stealing, but buying points and memberships online are not tangible items. That feels different as well. If he was buying clothes or toys I would think that would feel more "real" than what he bought.

I would make him pay back what he spent. I would make a running total on the refrigerator and make him pay back with jobs, errands, etc. I would ban him from computer for the summer.

I think that is an appropriate punishment.

He took her debit card out of her purse, without her permission. Just because it's not physical currency, doesn't make it any less theft. The PayPal thing is really disconcerting, and demonstrates he understands. He demonstrates no remorse. If he isn't stopped now, quickly, his behavior could escalate. I'm glad that the OP is going to discuss with his therapist.

 

[Notatourist]

NO WDW PERIOD.

That's to show him that what he did was serious enough to warrant that. Now for the other stuff-

The kid does sound like he's a genius with the computer. Get in touch with the credit agencies and let them know that this has happened. They will put a watch on your account, but you need to have that if malicious things do pop up. Nine years without a computer? Net Nanny is more of what I would do.

You know, if someone is caught doing stuff like that by the FBI they are put in a room without switches? Keep that one in mind.

Good luck.

 

[LSUmom4kids]

I'd be curious to see what HIS perception of an appropriate punishment would be.....

I asked him this question.... he gulped and then said that I was the parent! He didn't want to answer that.....

Perhaps we should tell him that he is NOT going to WDW until he gives me all computer account information & password, INCLUDING the accounts he claims he "cancelled". Then together we will go online to see if this information is correct. I could then communicate with these companies to confirm that this "was" his account and that I, as his legal guardian and parent, have a right to see all of his transactions! Perhaps that fact alone will help him "remember" what the passwords were! He's much too smart to "forget" anything, much less a password of something he loves doing!

I checked today and the last transaction he made on my debit card/checking account was on June 14, 2010. It will be the last once my card is cancelled today!

Therapist appointment made. DH is thinking about calling the local police office and perhaps arranging a visit to the local Juvenille detention center so he can see where he's headed if he doesn't straighten out!!!!!!!!!!!

Please keep sending me ideas, especially if you had to deal with a child like this.... I never had to deal with anything like this before - and hope I never have to again!

 

[Pigeon]

I have a friend whose minor child won an auction on ebay for tickets to a teenybopper concert complete with backstage visits with the stars for over a thousand dollars. This is a good kid who really didn't understand how the whole thing worked. The parents were able to get out of it because she was under age, and children cannot enter into contracts. You might look into getting the charges eliminated.

 

[stacie_d]

My own son did the same thing when he was 8. He used my credit card for online access to a Disney game. I caught it a day or two later. It was $80 for a years access. When we called the company, and explained what happened, they reversed the charges.

He just did not realize how big of a deal it was.

I pretended to write "I am a thief" on the back of his shirt with a marker and then we took him to do our shopping. He was horrified walking around the stores. He got the point though.

He has always been and still is a great kid. I still have no idea why he though it would be ok. He is 11 now and asks permission before he does anything on his computer or online.

Oh yeah, this all happened just before his first communion, so we told he would have to tell the priest too.

Good luck. I'm sure you know the best way to handle this, but wanted to let you know you are not alone.

 

[Tuffcookie]

I would be furious, too, OP! But, if he would steal from you he would steal from his own grandparents. I wouldn't want to burden my parents with my child if I was having this kind of problem with him.

TC

 

[Liberty Belle]

I would definitely call his therapist and let him/her know what is going on. Stealing like that and showing little remorse at his age is troubling.

 

[ElizK]

1st, . So sorry you have to deal with this.

2nd, your son is HIGHLY intelligent! Wow! Hopefully he will learn through this experience to funnel that intelligence into something good.

 

[LisaR]

I asked him this question.... he gulped and then said that I was the parent! He didn't want to answer that.....

Perhaps we should tell him that he is NOT going to WDW until he gives me all computer account information & password, INCLUDING the accounts he claims he "cancelled". Then together we will go online to see if this information is correct. I could then communicate with these companies to confirm that this "was" his account and that I, as his legal guardian and parent, have a right to see all of his transactions! Perhaps that fact alone will help him "remember" what the passwords were! He's much too smart to "forget" anything, much less a password of something he loves doing!

I checked today and the last transaction he made on my debit card/checking account was on June 14, 2010. It will be the last once my card is cancelled today!

Therapist appointment made. DH is thinking about calling the local police office and perhaps arranging a visit to the local Juvenille detention center so he can see where he's headed if he doesn't straighten out!!!!!!!!!!!

Please keep sending me ideas, especially if you had to deal with a child like this.... I never had to deal with anything like this before - and hope I never have to again!

If you trust this therapist, I would seriously consider holding off on any punishments until you have talked to her. It will give you time to cool down and s/he should be able to give you some good ideas on how to deal with this.

I wouldn't be so quick to pull the police card or the no WDW option until speaking with the therapist. If your son has other issues at play here, these actions may make it worse. If he was just being a little poop, go for it! I think I would want input from a professional first though.

 

[Sparx]

First, you are NOT a bad mother! None of this is your fault. He made these decisions and he knew what he was doing was wrong.

I think you are at a serious impasse. This is criminal behavior and should be handled as such. I am a social work student and I am a firm believer in "catching them early." This is that point. He is walking the path toward a very hard, lonely life if he grows into an adult and continues this behavior.

You have a therapist, and thats a great first step. Make that phone call IMMEDIATELY.

You shouldn't have to live this way, but you need to be incredibly vigilent about his (and your behavior) You do not want to leave any opportunity for him to act again. Buy some locks, lock your purse, keys, etc as soon as you get home.

You said he made purchases at microsoft and nintendo? Take his xbox and wii/ds. Sell those. You should get a good chunk of change at gamestop. Sell all his games/accessories. I know a DS trades for 45.00, and an Xbox or wii would go much higher. Games trade in for about 15-20% of total cost. You could PROBABLY make back what he stole doing this, but don't let him off the hook so easy.

Kids are smart and devious, he can and will get around blocks on the computer. I suggest setting up a password on it (changing daily of course) and taking the mouse/keyboard or monitor to work with you.

Clean out his room. I'd leave him with a bed/bedding, a few clothes, a dresser, and a desk (if he has one). Everything else would go to charity. There are plenty of unfortunate children without toys, clothes and furniture.

This is not normal "kids will be kids" behavior. This is very serious and you could press charges if you wanted to. I have no advice in that field but I think these steps that I outlined are a great start to getting him back on track.

 

[saradela]

It seeems strage that he opened a Pay Pal account, that means that he was protecting you from being robbed? He loves you, but he loves himself to. If you decide not to bring him to Disney, I hope it wont backfire ...have you asked him what was he feeling in that precise moment?. A Kids psychologist once told me, that the notion of good and bad gets established in kids at age 13. So your son is 9. I will ask for professional help before I mess up with his head. It just a bad moment for you right know, and I understand you are angry, girls use perfume and dresses from the mother, and they know they shouldn´t, but they do.....it seems that your kid is very smart to pull that off, with a good guidence ,he will grow up to be a person that you will be proud of.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I asked him this question.... he gulped and then said that I was the parent! He didn't want to answer that.....

Perhaps we should tell him that he is NOT going to WDW until he gives me all computer account information & password, INCLUDING the accounts he claims he "cancelled". Then together we will go online to see if this information is correct. I could then communicate with these companies to confirm that this "was" his account and that I, as his legal guardian and parent, have a right to see all of his transactions! Perhaps that fact alone will help him "remember" what the passwords were! He's much too smart to "forget" anything, much less a password of something he loves doing!

I checked today and the last transaction he made on my debit card/checking account was on June 14, 2010. It will be the last once my card is cancelled today!

Therapist appointment made. DH is thinking about calling the local police office and perhaps arranging a visit to the local Juvenille detention center so he can see where he's headed if he doesn't straighten out!!!!!!!!!!!

Please keep sending me ideas, especially if you had to deal with a child like this.... I never had to deal with anything like this before - and hope I never have to again!

Didn't mention in my earlier post. I would take him to WDW. I would not get him any souvenirs or anything, though.

Does your ds have a diagnosis? He sounds very intelligent. Is he being challenged enough? Given enough responsibility? Do you ask for his opinion often?

I definitely think he should be punished, and strongly, but no computer until he is 18 would be difficult to carry through.

 

[pilesoflaundry]

I would take him to disney, you said he has known behavioral problems, you weren't supervising well and he showed no remorse. I am not flaming you, I am speaking from the place of a parent that has 2 children with behavioral/emotional issues. I know sometimes my kid is going to do something if I leave them unsupervised in a situation they don't fully grasp. You have my sympathy. When ds was 5 he bid $110 for a game on ebay. I can laugh now but it was my fault, I left him in the room with the computer open and logged in.

You can punish him, you can't punsish him in the traditional way and expect it to stick or be understood.

He gets to be tomato staked. With you at all times, that means he does laundry with you, he goes where you go, he does chores, he gets to have no fun. Get him into therapy again like you said and make him understand the best way that he can how serious this is and how much he will have to earn things back and earn money to pay you for the money.

In disney, I would not do his favorite things, I would not buy him anything but food and I would make it more a dragging him along vs. the fun time he could have had.

Good luck

 

[Buckalew11]

I think you are getting good advice. However, I'm really worried about Grandma if you leave him with her. Honestly, it sounds like punishment for her. Good luck. You have your hands full but at least you know about it all.

 

[Robindianne]

I haven't read each reply so sorry if this is a dupe.

First and no flames.

Second, I would not punish him. As an elementary teacher, and a special education teacher, the research I've read shows that true punishment does not bring the long term results we use it for. Instead, I'd take a more logical/rational cause and effect approach: I'd sell his electronics for the payment. I'd count out every dime you get to make sure it's even. The way I'd do this is by a garage sale ad (paid for out of sale money earned - NOT paid for by you) about something like "community service restitution for theft sale" and even use his first name in it (so he might feel "judged" but not get his own identity stolen or anything). Make him give up his days to sit at this sale while you do something fun like read, etc that he knows you like?

Then, if he earns the repayment money + the ad money + punative damages (that part you can save and give toward his college fund if you want), he can go to WDW. Otherwise, I'd leave him either w/GR or somewhere else - he spent his money, sorry. As my mother used to tell me, "We all make choices Allison." I'd tell him, "We all make choices, son. You chose to spend your WDW money. Simple cause and effect.

Third, more

 

[Dax]

Thinking about it, sure, bring him to Disney, he rides nothing..gets no souviners, and is basically just along cause he has to be. He has no input on where or what you do..

 

[lovesmurfs]

For those recommending he go to WDW and get no souvenirs, no rides, etc., it seems that it would put a cloud over the rest of the family's trip (punishing the rest of the family), and constantly remind the whole family of the issue during what should be a fun family time? It also seems that it would be really hard for the parents to enforce during the trip.

 

[Northstar]

Secondly - what he did shows an amazing understanding of not only computer, but how accounts works. Using a stolen debit card to just pay for purchases I can see a street smart 9 year old being able to do that. However, it takes a few more steps to actually set up a paypal account, assign the debit card, set up fake e-mail accounts, etc.

I would seriously be taking into consideration that he is being "mentored" by somebody older - maybe somebody he met online. This person also may have all your account information.

Holy moly, this was my first thought. I don't care how brilliant he is, you are not born understanding how to do stuff like this, and you don't learn it by playing on kid online gaming sites.

OP, you need to investigate his online communications. Don't count on cutting him off from communicating online by getting control of your own computer... remember he might be able to get online at a friend's, at school, on an older kid's Blackberry.

And if you want to secure your home computer, don't take the keyboard (virtual keyboard easily available.) Take the power cord.

Don't discount the possibility of a remote keylogger (controlled by El Thiefo online-mentor-buddy) capturing your every password as you change them.