Minor child used my debit card online....

[Magic Mom]

That's a serious crime. I think no WDW is an appropriate punishment. He needs to really get the seriousness of what he did, and that calls for a dramatic punishment.

I also agree that taking him with you but denying him rides would definitely put a damper on everyone else's trip. The other kids would end up feeling bad after a while watching him get left out.

Leave him home and let him know in no uncertain terms that it is the consequence of what he did. It will be hard on you, but he needs to understand you mean business and will follow through, or this is only the beginning of the trouble.

 

[scottishduffy]

I think I would leave him at home for the WDW trip and make it very clear to him as to WHY he has left behind. Just be sure Gramma is willing to take him and willing to make sure he has no fun that week. (My gramma wouldn't have cared about any punishment and would have bought me new toys and fed me junk food all week)

1) Clear his room. Only a Mattress, a few outfits, and bed linens. No electronics of any kind. Keep his game systems and all games in storage. take the door off it's hinges, no privacy if you can't be trusted.

2) Grounded from any friends homes.

3) He is to be payed $1-2 per chore until he can pay back the full amount of what is owed to you. Only after his full debt is payed will his room be restored back to normal. This grounding period of extra chores and a bare room should take at least a month. He may slowly earn back items in his room as he reaches certain dollar amounts on the payback.

Make this dependent not just on chores, but on the attitude he has while doing them. $1 for a normal chore, $2 for the chore if you did it without complaint and with a good attitutde.

4) Game systems will be kept permanently unless he can suddenly remember those passwords and login names. If you get all the info he may get the systems back at the end of summer. If he still refuses to give you the passwords, then add the cost of the game systems to his debt and he may buy that back from you as well. At full cost.

5) Make sure for the next 4 weeks to keep a very close eye on him. No Tv, Nothing fun. Make sure to have long talks about trust and what it means when there is none. Perhaps at the end of this time make him write you a short paper about what the word TRUST means to him.


What he did implies he put a lot of thought into it. He deliberately took a card and charged money to it. He tried to hide his actions and then showed no remorse. He is a very clever kid, but he probably also needs a *very* strong punishment to make an impression. This is one of those times when you have come down like the hand of god and make the kid's life STOP as they know it.

Trust me... I was on the receiving end of a punishment like that at the age of 7. Last time i *ever* tried that.....

 

[EllenFrasier]

I would still bring him to WDW with the family, he is still part of the family right?
He would be grounded for the summer, other than the WDW trip. No trips to friends houses, no friends over. Confined to the house and backyard only.
I would make him write a letter of apology to each member of the family and list how he has hurt them by doing this. He's 9 and probably did not think about how much it would effect everyone, so this will help him realize it.
I agree with the chores for money and having him hand it back over to you - great idea.
My son stole money from me once and I made him wash floors on his hands and knees. He still remembers that.

 

[crashbb]

To OP,

Your son is obviously a bright child, but I disagree with others labeling him a "genius". Really, once a person knows how, even a child, setting up accounts is not that hard. It's unfortunately something he focused on and figured out.

If your son is not remorseful and still won't give you the passwords, he is still engaging in bad behavior. This almost seems worse than setting up the accounts. He set up the accounts behind your back. By not giving you information you are asking for he is continuing to be deceptive. I think you really need to impress upon him the seriousness of what he has done and is still doing.

Don't bother trying to get your money back from the online sites. It will take up a lot of your time. Tell your son he is the one who is going to be giving you back the money.

Make him earn the money to pay you back. At nine he capable of doing many household chores, especially as you said, the tedious ones.

Do not take him to WDW with you. If grandma is up for watching him under the circumstances, then let her. He needs to learn he stole money from the family and spent it on himself. Not letting him go on the trip will make a lasting impression on him.

Do not bring him to WDW with conditions that will make everyone else miserable. And probably if you bring him, once you are there having a good time, there's a possibility you will ease up on him. It may be hard for you to leave him at home, but remember to think what you want for him long-term.

Get software for your computer so everyone has to log in.

Do not let him use the computer for the rest of the summer. In the fall when school starts, if he needs to use it, tell him he needs to schedule a time that is convenient for you and you will sit next to him while he uses it.

I would tell him he will not be able to use the computer for anything but schoolwork while you are watching until you feel you can trust him. Leave the time open-ended so you can judge if it's sooner or later that you feel you can trust him. Tell him if starts asking you if he can use the computer for other schoolwork, that when you do decide he can use it, for everytime he has asked you, you are delaying it by a month.

Trying to keep him from computers will be a challenge. You may need to not let him go to friends' houses for a while if you think he will have access to computers there.

I would make charts, and put things in writing so that he understands what his future obligations are and there's no dispute later on.

Going to the therapist is a very good decision. He has issues your other children do not. His going will benefit the whole family.

Remember you are the parent and sometimes you have to do hard things in order to teach your children what is wrong. Good luck to you and your family.

Some good ideas.

 

[JoiseyMom]

Sorry you are going through this OP! I have a DS9, yikes...scary!

Have you gone through the history of the computer he used to see exactly where he was going? Your debit card will give you the info of what he spent money on, but the history will give you some more info.

If you have his account info and not his pw, those are easy to obtain by logging on with him and having them send it to his email. You know the routine. Try that and then cancel the accounts, including the email. Or monitor the email account to see what else is going on.

Good luck!

 

[richmond282]

OP, I don't know you or your son so it's hard for me to say exactly what's right for you. However, if this was MY child, I would do as others suggested:

1. I'd keep him home from Disney just so he'd know how much money he stole. He stole his Disney ticket.

2. In terms of staying with grandparents, my parents would make sure he didn't have ANY fun at all, but I don't know your parents.

3. I would definitely sell all of his electronics without even thinking about it. Sounds like they were where they money went, so he should sell them to get the money back. If he ever wants another Xbox or DS, he will buy it himself.

4. I would find a job for my son to do to earn back the rest of the money. It would not be chores at my house (hence my money.) I'd have him knock on neighbor's doors for odd jobs to do or find a family friend that can have him chop wood or something.

5. He would not touch the computer at all without me sitting right next to him and watching every single key stroke.

 

[Handbag Lady]

I would have him stay with the grandparent and not go to WDW. It works. Know how I know?



My niece was a young "smart-Alec" teen and my sister saved for a year and a half for them to go to Hawaii. The niece started acting up in school, lied about homework, and when confronted with the possible punishment, stared straight at my sister and said, "You won't cancel the Hawaii trip, you've saved too much and you want to go." So, right in front of her, my sister picked up the phone and invited grandma to go instead. After that, she picked up the phone and made arrangements with grandpa to babysit for that week.

I was raised by "grandpa." He's my dad. I KNEW my niece was in for a world of pain and so did she. She BEGGED to go. She howled and all of that.

My sister stuck to it, my neice got a week-long lecture on how to be a better person complete with chores, and in the end, she's now a good-standing citizen who is a very nice person.

 

[pigletgirl]

I think I would leave him at home for the WDW trip and make it very clear to him as to WHY he has left behind. Just be sure Gramma is willing to take him and willing to make sure he has no fun that week. (My gramma wouldn't have cared about any punishment and would have bought me new toys and fed me junk food all week)

1) Clear his room. Only a Mattress, a few outfits, and bed linens. No electronics of any kind. Keep his game systems and all games in storage. take the door off it's hinges, no privacy if you can't be trusted.

2) Grounded from any friends homes.

3) He is to be payed $1-2 per chore until he can pay back the full amount of what is owed to you. Only after his full debt is payed will his room be restored back to normal. This grounding period of extra chores and a bare room should take at least a month. He may slowly earn back items in his room as he reaches certain dollar amounts on the payback.

Make this dependent not just on chores, but on the attitude he has while doing them. $1 for a normal chore, $2 for the chore if you did it without complaint and with a good attitutde.

4) Game systems will be kept permanently unless he can suddenly remember those passwords and login names. If you get all the info he may get the systems back at the end of summer. If he still refuses to give you the passwords, then add the cost of the game systems to his debt and he may buy that back from you as well. At full cost.

5) Make sure for the next 4 weeks to keep a very close eye on him. No Tv, Nothing fun. Make sure to have long talks about trust and what it means when there is none. Perhaps at the end of this time make him write you a short paper about what the word TRUST means to him.


What he did implies he put a lot of thought into it. He deliberately took a card and charged money to it. He tried to hide his actions and then showed no remorse. He is a very clever kid, but he probably also needs a *very* strong punishment to make an impression. This is one of those times when you have come down like the hand of god and make the kid's life STOP as they know it.

Trust me... I was on the receiving end of a punishment like that at the age of 7. Last time i *ever* tried that.....

 

[JessicaR]

It's not exactly difficult to plug in a cc# and even if they ask for the extra numbers, they usually have a link telling you where to find them on the back of the card. Other wise you just plug in the name on the card and the address associated with it, which is usually the home address.

If you can figure out how to set up an account online, you can figure out how to buy something online. You are usually given step by step instructions on everything. And in the case of the games, they tend to make it easy to spend your money with them. It's not exactly rocket science.



.

He didn't just use a credit card online. He created accounts. That takes much more than plugging in a CC# - he would have needed bank account access. cc's, social security #'s as well as other information. Not saying it was rocket science but at 9 - thats a lot of info to be privy to and know how to use it.

 

[HannaBelle]

OP, you have gotten some good advice here. You have to absorb it all and decide what is best for your family.

Perhaps we should tell him that he is NOT going to WDW until he gives me all computer account information & password, INCLUDING the accounts he claims he "cancelled". Then together we will go online to see if this information is correct.

This is an excellent idea, but you have to be willing to leave him with grandma if he is not 100% honest. He has to give up that information. I would not take the trip away from him unless he refused this information. He is part of the family and does need to know that he is valued and loved. I would not take him to WDW and exclude him from things to make him miserable.

Counseling is a must, which you have done!

Repaying you is a must. I agree with a PP that said sell his stuff to repay what he took, with interest. Money to a 9 year old is not a tangible item, but if you start selling his games…it will make an impression. If he wants those items back, he has to earn the money and purchase them himself. He cannot receive them as gifts, he cannot use money received as a gift to re-purchase the items. This will take a while, but it is not impossible.

As far as computer usage goes, buy some type of blocker/monitor and allow him access for school work only. Don’t tell him he can never use the computer again, but that is just not possible while attending school.

I hope you get it sorted!

 

[DisneyMomx7]

I feel like there is a huge disconnect in a child's mind between having money and what it takes to have it. I know my son just assumed you took out a card, went to a machine, and money popped out. How the money got into your account, how it got out of the machine were irrelevant. Just having the money and doing what you want with it were all that mattered. I think your son may have some of that comprehension difficulty also. I would sit down and explain the mechanics of debit cards/credit cards/where money comes from/how to earn it, etc., etc.

My guess is that he was aping your behavior, having watched you purchase items online. Kids are focused on electronics and I can imagine him following your behavior to create his own on-line access.

Now having said that, the devious means your son took to get what he wants is another problem. I don't think I would ever expect a child to remove a card from my wallet and use it. That's where I would have the problem. And that's where I would focus my efforts in helping my son decide whether or not it was appropriate behavior. I would expect him to pay back the money through working around the house. I also wouldn't disallow computer usage but would instead insist on close monitoring of his computer time. If he truly is as talented as he sounds, I would encourage his skills....and get him some more computer courses....as well as a course on ethics as soon as possible (be it through church study, bible study, school, etc.)

If you've had problems with him in the past, a therapist is a must. He needs to learn socially acceptable behavior as well as ethics and morals in the computer age. He needs to discover and understand redemption after commiting a terrible error.

Lastly, I wouldn't alienate him from a family vacation. He has already alienated himself from you because of his behavior. He needs to know you still love him and can forgive him.

That's how I feel. Not taking him would further alienate him. He made a bad mistake, he may not seem like he is feeling remorse but he may be hiding it too. I would talk to the therapist. Yes he was wrong, yes I would make him pay it all bag and know what he did was terribly wrong, but I still think he's 9 - I wouldn't let the mistake he made define everything.

Maybe by the time the vacation comes along you will actually welcome the family time together.

Good luck with the therapist.

 

[erincon23]

It seems to me that there's been one thing missing in this whole discussion. Yes, he did something really wrong, and yes, he has to make up for it -- but he needs to know that you still love him, NO MATTER WHAT, and that you will forgive him, even if you will not forget.

Kids that age internalize a lot. Leaving him home from a family trip says "we no longer love you enough to include you." I know that's not what you mean to say, but that's what he'll hear. And feel. And it lasts a long, long time.

I agree with others, he has to pay it back. Not just with money, because obviously that doesn't mean a lot to him, but with his stuff. If you're not comfortable selling it to recoup the money, take it away, Leave it all at grandma's, and make him earn enough to not only pay back the money he took, but an additional amount to pay to get back the equipment.

Make a contract with him, including what caused the problem, the actions he must take, and by when he must take them, and punishments for missing those deadlines. Insist on his participation in setting up the contract. Include methods of checking and oversight. Throw in everything you can think of -- he's probably thinking, even if he never says it, that he deserves whatever he gets, and he won't say anything until he starts to feel that it's really unfair -- at that point, you'll know you've gotten through to him. When you asked him what punishment he thought was appropriate and he said, "I don't know, you're the parent," he's telling you that he doesn't really understand the seriousness of this. Or that he does, but hopes you'll be more lenient than he would be toward himself. In either case, he need to have it spelled out, in black and white, posted on the refrigerator, what he did, what the consequences are, how he'll work himself back into your good graces, and what happens if he doesn't.

No matter what you do, though, you have to reassure him that you still love him -- hate the action, love the kid. He can have consequences, reduced activities, no souveniers, whatever, at Disney, but he's still part of the family. There are some things that he'll never forgive you for -- embarrassing him, treating him like an outcast -- and those things will teach him lessons you don't want him learning. And there are some things that will teach him that you will always love him, but that it's very important to you that he grows up to be a moral, caring, honest person.

 

[NotUrsula]

Just jumping back in to agree that while really bringing down the hammer is always a parent's first instinct in cases like these, do be wary of over-punishing by taking away too much and isolating the child. I made that mistake once, and the result was that my child's behavior got worse, because he figured he had nothing left to lose.

I wouldn't go to the extreme of stripping his room and removing the door at this point and at his age. If he does something similar again or when he's older, yes, but at 9 I think that particular tactic is overly harsh.

 

[Liberty Belle]

It seems to me that there's been one thing missing in this whole discussion. Yes, he did something really wrong, and yes, he has to make up for it -- but he needs to know that you still love him, NO MATTER WHAT, and that you will forgive him, even if you will not forget.

Kids that age internalize a lot. Leaving him home from a family trip says "we no longer love you enough to include you." I know that's not what you mean to say, but that's what he'll hear. And feel. And it lasts a long, long time.

I agree with others, he has to pay it back. Not just with money, because obviously that doesn't mean a lot to him, but with his stuff. If you're not comfortable selling it to recoup the money, take it away, Leave it all at grandma's, and make him earn enough to not only pay back the money he took, but an additional amount to pay to get back the equipment.

Make a contract with him, including what caused the problem, the actions he must take, and by when he must take them, and punishments for missing those deadlines. Insist on his participation in setting up the contract. Include methods of checking and oversight. Throw in everything you can think of -- he's probably thinking, even if he never says it, that he deserves whatever he gets, and he won't say anything until he starts to feel that it's really unfair -- at that point, you'll know you've gotten through to him. When you asked him what punishment he thought was appropriate and he said, "I don't know, you're the parent," he's telling you that he doesn't really understand the seriousness of this. Or that he does, but hopes you'll be more lenient than he would be toward himself. In either case, he need to have it spelled out, in black and white, posted on the refrigerator, what he did, what the consequences are, how he'll work himself back into your good graces, and what happens if he doesn't.

No matter what you do, though, you have to reassure him that you still love him -- hate the action, love the kid. He can have consequences, reduced activities, no souveniers, whatever, at Disney, but he's still part of the family. There are some things that he'll never forgive you for -- embarrassing him, treating him like an outcast -- and those things will teach him lessons you don't want him learning. And there are some things that will teach him that you will always love him, but that it's very important to you that he grows up to be a moral, caring, honest person.

 

[Kimberly]

If I had ever done this at a young age to either of my parents... there would be no Disney, period for me. I'd probably stay with my aunt or grandmother while everyone else went. My younger brother in particular was a problem child, and they had to make good on a punishment like this once. It wasn't Disney, but it was a cruise that he and I were supposed to go on with our grandparents. He didn't go, instead, one of my cousins came along.

I don't think a therapist is required, just a firm lesson needs to be taught here. Unless you've purchased everything with WDW so far, everything is still reversible.

 

[Liberty Belle]

If I had ever done this at a young age to either of my parents... there would be no Disney, period for me. I'd probably stay with my aunt or grandmother while everyone else went. My younger brother in particular was a problem child, and they had to make good on a punishment like this once. It wasn't Disney, but it was a cruise that he and I were supposed to go on with our grandparents. He didn't go, instead, one of my cousins came along.

I don't think a therapist is required, just a firm lesson needs to be taught here. Unless you've purchased everything with WDW so far, everything is still reversible.

Her child had been seeing a therapist recently. Obviously OP and/or his doctor thought that was necessary. I think therapy is definitely required, especially since he has a therapist, but even if he didn't. Some things you can't punish away.

 

[dimimi]

He is only 9. I would punish him and make him work off the money, but Disney is a family trip. I would let him go.

Some people have good ideas, but geez, even criminals get a second chance! He is already in therapy so these are issues for him that they are working on. He still needs to know he is a good person that made a huge mistake. With mistakes have consequences, but he is a good person who made bad choices.

If he doesn't get to go to Disney, that is the punishment. He doesn't need a week of more lectures. I am a high school teacher, some of these punishments will make him feel like a horrible/bad person. A teen who thinks he is horrible, asks like he think he is perceived by others.

Between therapy and his natural consequences I'm thinking he will be a fine young man. Now if he was 16 and doing this, I'd say different things.

 

[Luvchefmic]

It seems to me that there's been one thing missing in this whole discussion. Yes, he did something really wrong, and yes, he has to make up for it -- but he needs to know that you still love him, NO MATTER WHAT, and that you will forgive him, even if you will not forget.

Kids that age internalize a lot. Leaving him home from a family trip says "we no longer love you enough to include you." I know that's not what you mean to say, but that's what he'll hear. And feel. And it lasts a long, long time.

I agree with others, he has to pay it back. Not just with money, because obviously that doesn't mean a lot to him, but with his stuff. If you're not comfortable selling it to recoup the money, take it away, Leave it all at grandma's, and make him earn enough to not only pay back the money he took, but an additional amount to pay to get back the equipment.

Make a contract with him, including what caused the problem, the actions he must take, and by when he must take them, and punishments for missing those deadlines. Insist on his participation in setting up the contract. Include methods of checking and oversight. Throw in everything you can think of -- he's probably thinking, even if he never says it, that he deserves whatever he gets, and he won't say anything until he starts to feel that it's really unfair -- at that point, you'll know you've gotten through to him. When you asked him what punishment he thought was appropriate and he said, "I don't know, you're the parent," he's telling you that he doesn't really understand the seriousness of this. Or that he does, but hopes you'll be more lenient than he would be toward himself. In either case, he need to have it spelled out, in black and white, posted on the refrigerator, what he did, what the consequences are, how he'll work himself back into your good graces, and what happens if he doesn't.

No matter what you do, though, you have to reassure him that you still love him -- hate the action, love the kid. He can have consequences, reduced activities, no souveniers, whatever, at Disney, but he's still part of the family. There are some things that he'll never forgive you for -- embarrassing him, treating him like an outcast -- and those things will teach him lessons you don't want him learning. And there are some things that will teach him that you will always love him, but that it's very important to you that he grows up to be a moral, caring, honest person.

FWIW its been a long time since I had a kid this age but after reading the responses (I was lurking since I have a DGS that is 10) and discussing it with DD (who has the 10 y/o) we agree this is the action we both go for.....best of luck to you all

 

[4nana]

I have grandchildren this age and my heart breaks for you, as I can't imagine your hurt, disappointment and feeling of betrayal . No words of wisdom, you're already getting plenty of advise for you and DH to absorb. It will take time, but with love, faith, and your son continuing counseling, your family will pull through and in time be as strong as ever. Godspeed

 

[livie1205]

NO WAY...would I take him to wdw!!! I dont care what people say "oh its a family trip ect ect ect' no way no how.THIS was a criminal act not back talking or a bad grade.If he had done this to someone else he would be in juvi.