Middle Class Priced Out???

[DawnM]

We never stay on-site. We are a family of 5, so that automatically puts us in a Moderate. However, we hate staying in tiny hotel rooms. I can get a 2-4 bedroom condo for very little (as little as $250/wk) and we spread out. Yes, we pay $20 extra for parking. So what?

And I can't eat out every meal. Our last trip we at B-fast in the room, ate out for lunch, and went back to the condo for dinner, OR we brought lunch into the parks and then bought dinner. We eat out once per day. We used to not even do that, but our budget has increased a bit.

Tickets are much higher now, that has more than doubled for us.

We may go this summer, we aren't sure. I need to price it out.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I agree that WDW is overpriced in general. However, they offer a unique vacation experience so every 2-4 years we bite the bullet and it's worth it to see my family having fun.

Let's not just single out Disney though. Staying at the Hard Rock for a Universal vacation was about the same price as our upcoming Beach Club Disney trip. The bill hurt but again, we had a great time.

True! I was really surprised about Universal prices, and I'm jealous you got to stay at the hard rock. I really wanted to but just couldn't justify it. I think the difference is that people seem to view Disney as a rite of passage. Something every middle class family "has" to do. It's ridiculous but seems to be prevalent.

 

[Jewel1310]

Yes - I think about how many people I know have not been to Disney because they can't afford to go. My DS and soon to be DIL live in FL. I visited them for a special occasion and we went for 1 day - found a deal for them but it was almost 200 for me. For the past years I would have an annual pass but at over 800 now I can't justify it. I could price a trip to Europe for what a 1 week trip to Disney costs now.

 

[DeblovesWaltandMickey]

Didn't prices only go up 3%? I would hope most people got at least that for a raise since that's about what is considered a cost of living raise. I do think a lot of people go all out at Disney and live the luxury life with out having the luxury money to back it. Sure it is fine to save up and do that once if you are going to only ever go once but Deluxe, TS every night, extras on top of extra, etc every single trip is not meant for the "average" family. I think with Disney people forget their realistic budgets and buy the magic they think the need instead of letting the experience speak for itself.

The sad reality is that some families have been dealing with shrinking paychecks. Not a perfect world.

 

[dreiwhit]

I would hope most people got at least that for a raise since that's about what is considered a cost of living raise.

I'm in IT, and the last time I got a raise over 1.6% was back in 2007. Most of our raises - if we got one - ranged from .5 to 1.5%.

And add two pay cuts to that (15%, followed by 6%) and that's why money is tight right now....

 

[Judique]

I hear this frequently... the way I look at it is paying the insane prices for broken hovels in San Fran, closets in NYC etc. You're paying for location and the 'city' around you more than your actual abode.

Exactly! Because I hear lots of people who want to experience NYC and are asking for hotel recommendations. Many want to go to the Met, Top of the Rock, Central Park, a broadway show, etc etc and they want to feel like they are somewhere different - in NYC as opposed to any old town, USA. They get told to get a room in Queens or across the river and commute.

I think that's okay but I think if you want the immersive feeling you should wake up and look down and see walls of yellow cabs, tall bldgs., people scurrying everywhere, corner coffee shops with bagels and sweets and the feel of the city around you. Especially for your first time.

Same with Disney. I've stayed offsite. I like it but it's not a Disney vacation. It then becomes a trip to a theme park which is okay also, but when staying offsite, a couple of days of Disney in a week is more than enough for us.

When I am staying at Disney resorts, I build most of my days around the parks when I am using my tickets - sometimes I'm not on an annual and just have my hoarded no expiry so I use them sparingly and will do more than one park in a day and get some hours in. And still it's not a Disney vacation, rather than a trip to Orlando!

I think that if I hadn't bought enough annual pass vouchers and no expiry tickets to last me the rest of my life probably (and the rest of my DVC membership which expires in 2042 - I will be 88 then) I would certainly feel priced out of the parks. And by that I mean I wouldn't want to pay the price - I have the money but I'd be hard pressed to give it to Disney. I was fortunate to have the money to buy 10 day no expiry tickets and put them away, so that when I want to just do a day or two of hopping during a trip, it costs me about $73 a day in stead of over a hundred.

And if I didn't have DVC to stay at Boardwalk in a studio for less than a hundred a night based on my purchase value, not what you can buy now, the so called Deluxes would have me priced out. It would be a once and done thing for me. It's an every year twice a year thing for me because I was able to plan ahead and had enough disposable funds to take advantage. For people now, I don't see that. I'm in a much higher income situation than many people posting, so I can certainly understand the feeling priced out if you are a family living on maybe 100K or less. And if you are up in the higher salaries, people are still looking at whether these prices give enough value for what you get because for families it is definitely a considerable amount of cash outlay.

 

[dakotix]

It's crazy how expensive it is now. We definitely have to watch our budget. How I look at it is if it's a destination that really makes a positive difference in your life, it's worth it. While we enjoyed going every year for the past few years, we're definitely now planning our trips every other year (OR TWO) now. Especially with all new attractions coming down the pike, we're now timing things so that there's always something new for us to see each time. Our "off" years are now filled with "simple" trips like camping at our favorite la

I use a great budgeting spreadsheet I found online which is a great tool. With an average trip for us costing $5k, there's no way we could enjoy disney without it just being part of all the other stuff in our life which we save for.

 

[dakotix]

I'm in IT, and the last time I got a raise over 1.6% was back in 2007. Most of our raises - if we got one - ranged from .5 to 1.5%.

And add two pay cuts to that (15%, followed by 6%) and that's why money is tight right now....

I'm in IT too. Talk about feeling devalued eh!? All we ever hear is how much our customers depend on us and love what we do yet they always complain about the cost.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

Bottom line: there's a big difference between the middle class being priced out and the middle class not being able to afford everything they want. I've noticed that a lot of people who complain about money on these boards consider an awful lot of things to be necessities that I just don't. If they can't get them, they see them as "trip ruiners." I don't get that. If it gets to the point where the hotels are genuinely out of my price range or everyone enjoys other destinations more or Disney customer service goes way, way down hill- then it probably would be the end of it for us. But in reality, flying anywhere and staying in any hotel costs a lot of money for a family. So if Disney priced us out, it probably means that everything other than camping within driving distance has also "priced us out", (meaning Disney ain't the problem).

THIS!

I have to chuckle when I see all the 'middle class priced out' kind of comments on the DIS. Mostly all posted by people who at the same time say that they won't stay at a value, won't stay off site, must eat table service, want to do CRT and BBB with the deluxe package, want all the add ons, etc. And they want to do it every year.

YES, Disney is an expensive vacation. But it can be done on a middle class budget if you do simple things to economize, stay in a less expensive resort, forego the pricey extras. You can have a nice Disney vacation on a middle class budget, probably not every year. You can't have a deluxe vacation on a middle class budget.

And, based on what I hear from a couple of friends who vacation in Myrtle Beach every year, you can spend just as much money on a beach vacation as you can at Disney, so it's not JUST Disney that can cost a lot.

I totally agree with both of you! I don't mind economizing in order to make a Disney trip happen. Next month DH and I are going to WDW to see DD play in a high school softball tournament. DD will be staying onsite with her team (her package price is only $400 due to fundraising!). We decided not to pay for the team parent Disney package at Pop with quick service dining plan for DH and me - too expensive! Instead we are driving our car down and staying off site at a condo ($430/week and close enough to see the ESPN fields from the balcony), using $550 in Disney gift cards for dining (purchased at Kroger with 4x fuel points), and using 3 days on our 10 day no expire hopppers with WP fun & more. We have 3 table service ADRs planned (Boathouse on our DS day, Tusker House breakfast ROL pkg, Sci Fi for just milkshakes) and a lunch ADR at BOG. Our 6 day trip will only cost us $1300 total including transportation. I can totally afford that on a middle class budget! But...to some people, this is not a trip worth taking because it isn't a "plane flight, Deluxe hotel with Deluxe dining plan, parks every day" kind of trip. Heck, some people on the DIS would argue an off site trip isn't even a Disney trip...they insist it's just a trip to Florida!

 

[crisi]

Bottom line: there's a big difference between the middle class being priced out and the middle class not being able to afford everything they want. I've noticed that a lot of people who complain about money on these boards consider an awful lot of things to be necessities that I just don't. If they can't get them, they see them as "trip ruiners." I don't get that. If it gets to the point where the hotels are genuinely out of my price range or everyone enjoys other destinations more or Disney customer service goes way, way down hill- then it probably would be the end of it for us. But in reality, flying anywhere and staying in any hotel costs a lot of money for a family. So if Disney priced us out, it probably means that everything other than camping within driving distance has also "priced us out", (meaning Disney ain't the problem).

Some things cost a lot less than Disney. I can spend a week in London on the cheap for what I can spend at Disney - on the cheap. I can spend a week in Washington DC for almost nothing - hotels can be pricey, but most attractions are free. When a seven day base ticket is $450, that raises your base cost a lot (and a four day ticket isn't that much less). All inclusives can be very reasonable. Cheaper cruise lines are reasonable. We have a wonderful park system - Mammoth Cave, Grand Canyon - that isn't all hiking and nature....and there are free or cheap things to do in every city.

I agree that when someone says they can't afford Disney and what they really mean is they can't afford the Poly and a character meal every day, I sort of roll my eyes. But the reality is, for a lot of people, the breaking point for a Disney vacation over any other is the cost of park tickets. And if you skip the parks, then you might as well be at any other hotel with a pool.

 

[crisi]

I'm in IT, and the last time I got a raise over 1.6% was back in 2007. Most of our raises - if we got one - ranged from .5 to 1.5%.

And add two pay cuts to that (15%, followed by 6%) and that's why money is tight right now....

And if you are like most people, your health insurance costs have been increasing for around 20 years as well - as your employer passes along some of the increase. During my career I went from good health insurance covering my entire family for free, to a high deductible plan that only covered me for $50 a month - I had to add my dependents at cost - $800 a month.

 

[Vijoge]

Yes. I'm looking at the second week of December and the prices, as usual, are hilarious. Deluxe STARTS at 400-500 a night. That's for the "motel", non view, style rooms that some folks here refuse to stay in. Moderate is more like 200, value is like 150. The only middle class folks I know who would seriously consider the deluxe ones are delusional and living on credit. Or they aren't middle class, and just think they are. That's an insane price for what is basically a tarted up double queen. I mean...I would (and have very occasionally) paid that at truly deluxe resorts, but that doesn't describe any lodging at Disney.

Hey, that's not fair. I saved for several years and worked a hell of a lot of overtime so we could splurge at ALK on a one bedroom villa when we took our three youngest granddaughters in January. We didn't charge one penny of our vacation and I am definitely not delusional. Would I do it again? No, it was a one time thing for us. Am I sorry I did it? Also no.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Hey, that's not fair. I saved for several years and worked a hell of a lot of overtime so we could splurge at ALK on a one bedroom villa when we took our three youngest granddaughters in January. We didn't charge one penny of our vacation and I am definitely not delusional. Would I do it again? No, it was a one time thing for us. Am I sorry I did it? Also no.

Apologies. You're one of the rare ones. But you also made it clear that it was a once in a lifetime thing for you guys- I meant the constant keeping up with the jones' folks.

 

[Darcy03231]

Hey, that's not fair. I saved for several years and worked a hell of a lot of overtime so we could splurge at ALK on a one bedroom villa when we took our three youngest granddaughters in January. We didn't charge one penny of our vacation and I am definitely not delusional. Would I do it again? No, it was a one time thing for us. Am I sorry I did it? Also no.

I agree. We stay in the deluxe resorts and usually eat table service meals 2x a day. I prefer the deluxe resorts and we like the break that a TS meal gives us. We've been frequent WDW visitors so we don't tour commando anymore and like to enjoy our resort. I bust my tail end all year at work and when I'm on vacation I'm not pinching pennies. I'm neither delusional nor living on credit. In fact, we have no debt other than our monthly bills.

 

[Nancyg56]

Getting real expensive. Still get our annual pass and stay off site a lot. I feel sorry for someone who goes for about 5 days and stays on site. That gets pretty expensive for a family.

Save your sympathy for someone who needs it. We stay onsite because that choice works best for us, and 5 nights is the least number of nights we have ever booked.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "priced out". I think a good majority of people can't afford to vacation at WDW every year but most people can go occasionally if they budget and save for it. For some people that might mean every 2-3 years and for others it might mean every 5-10.

Its funny you mention this. A young mother told me that she wants to bring her son but cannot afford to, and that she envies my family. Um...we don't smoke. WE drink on occasion, but our wine budget is miniscule in comparison to her family. I love brand name shoes but do not buy them. Her little boy has $60 sneakers. My car is not a brand spankin new Honda Pilot, and we have not one traffic ticket to bump up our insurance. The issue is priorities. We want to take our family on vacation, and we enjoy Disney. WE save. We go.

I think just like any other luxury, if it is important you will find a way. Instead of having a new fancy car, I take trips to Disney World. Instead of eating out every day I almost always pack lunch. I take coffee to work in the morning. Most everyone has some sort of budget, true. But I don't buy they are pricing out the middle class. But can the middle class buy every new gadget out there, drive top of the line suvs and still afford long trips at the Grand Floridian? Probably not.

We all make choices.

Exactly. As grandparents our finances are different than they were when we had all the kids home, but that does not change how we look at extras. We tend to eat at home and to keep purchases down when we are saving for vacation. I do nto have a car payment, kept our home small so we could pay it off, and have no new furniture.

Exactly! Because I hear lots of people who want to experience NYC and are asking for hotel recommendations. Many want to go to the Met, Top of the Rock, Central Park, a broadway show, etc etc and they want to feel like they are somewhere different - in NYC as opposed to any old town, USA. They get told to get a room in Queens or across the river and commute.
.

Holy YES! I take my DGD to NYC for a long weekend about once a year and have never found the rooms to be "cheap." We take Amtrak or Metro North and use cabs when need be in the city. We stay in the theater district and we see a few shows. We dine out, take a few tours, or hit a museum. I figure that three days is about the same as 7 in Disney in a moderate and on the DDP, excepting flights. Two nights was almost $700, and that did not include the $10 per person we had to pay for breakfast.

 

[crisi]

Save your sympathy for someone who needs it. We stay onsite because that choice works best for us, and 5 nights is the least number of nights we have ever booked.

We often go only every other year and only stay five nights. We've been to Disney so many times that we don't need more than five nights. We take an early flight in on Sunday and are in the parks by 1pm. We take a late flight out on Friday, and are in the parks until 4pm. And often by Friday we are not doing anything than wandering around.

People vacation differently - some people like to camp. I don't. My friends who like to camp don't feel sorry for me because I don't like to camp. I like to visit Europe. I don't feel sorry for someone who has no desire to travel internationally - it isn't their thing and that's fine. I also like to go to Disney for only five days, eat very expensive meals when I am there, and stay on site. If I did Disney "on the cheap" I wouldn't do Disney at all - we go somewhere else when we want cheap - or we stay home and enjoy our own city.

 

[Branflakes]

I agree. We stay in the deluxe resorts and usually eat table service meals 2x a day. I prefer the deluxe resorts and we like the break that a TS meal gives us. We've been frequent WDW visitors so we don't tour commando anymore and like to enjoy our resort. I bust my tail end all year at work and when I'm on vacation I'm not pinching pennies. I'm neither delusional nor living on credit. In fact, we have no debt other than our monthly bills.

We too are 100% debt free, we have a mortgage, basic monthly expenditures. No way do I put a vacation to WDW or anywhere on a credit card. Don't have them. Don't use them. Don't want them. We go twice a year, are AP, stay deluxe, BC,YC,WL. We stay club level too. Because that's what we like. We budget for it. We decide what we're going to do, and make it happen.
Even our young adult kids 21,24 who live on their own, work, and save for trips to WDW, Europe etc. They Decide plans save and go. No pinching pennies for us while on vacation either. That's stressful, and I'm vacation

 

[crispychicky]

Every time Disney raises its rates faster than inflation, somebody somewhere gets priced out. Has that line crossed into the middle class? I honestly can't say.

What I do find very interesting is the fact that there have been a rash of threads lately about HOW CROWDED it's been during Spring Break (most likely due to bad beach weather). Even so, those folks don't seem to have a problem spending money to go to Disney, even if it's only for a day or two. Basic business practices would say it's time to raise rates again if sooo many people are willing and able to pay your asking price.

 

[BridgetBordeaux]

Getting real expensive. Still get our annual pass and stay off site a lot. I feel sorry for someone who goes for about 5 days and stays on site. That gets pretty expensive for a family.

It seems that my use of the words "I feel sorry for...." hit a nerve with a few people. Maybe I did not explain my thought process very well in my reply posted on the Budget Board. I was mostly thinking of a young family scenario. I know that when we were a young family, that there was not a lot of excess money in the monthly/yearly budget.

A young family of four, driving to WDW for a late August, 6 night, 5 full day park visit, can easily spend 2500 to 3000 dollars. That is with a 20 percent discount on a Pop room....... and no park hopper or waterpark option. I assumed the kids were school aged and could not be pulled out during a value season.

I was trying to express a desire for more families with tight budgets to experience WDW without the cost being so painful. I was not trying to upset anyone.

 

[Vijoge]

It seems that my use of the words "I feel sorry for...." hit a nerve with a few people. Maybe I did not explain my thought process very well in my reply posted on the Budget Board. I was mostly thinking of a young family scenario. I know that when we were a young family, that there was not a lot of excess money in the monthly/yearly budget.

A young family of four, driving to WDW for a late August, 6 night, 5 full day park visit, can easily spend 2500 to 3000 dollars. That is with a 20 percent discount on a Pop room....... and no park hopper or waterpark option. I assumed the kids were school aged and could not be pulled out during a value season.

I was trying to express a desire for more families with tight budgets to experience WDW without the cost being so painful. I was not trying to upset anyone.

I think the point people are trying to make is that even young families on a tight budget can go to WDW if they save and plan for it. Not every year, but they can certainly go. If they save just $10 per week for five or six years the trip can happen. It would be rare that someone couldn't manage to save $10 each week.