Middle Class Priced Out???

[disneyseniors]

We haven't been to WDW in 2 years and at this point looking at prices, we might not go back. First of all, the price of airfare from the west coast is out of sight. We have a cruise to Alaska planned for this summer and with our airfare, cruise cost, hotel for night before and our excursions it is still $1,100 cheaper than WDW. The WDW trip would include moderate resort, dining plan, park hoppers and airfare and both would have been the same time frame. Even the DCL Alaska cruise is $2,200 more than the one we are taking. Our DD is getting older and we are looking for new adventures for our family. Maybe in a few years we might take another look but for now we are looking at different types of travel and fun

I know this is not relevant, but I love your cute avatar

 

[mrsheppo]

I know this is not relevant, but I love your cute avatar

That was my DD when she was 3 days old. She's almost 11 now

 

[cruiser21]

Feeling priced out of Disney turned out to be a terrific thing for us. We have traveled to so many other places instead of constantly going to Disney. We don't miss it yet and have really enjoyed discovering so many other great destinations. We still love Orlando and do other things when we are in the area. We enjoy the resorts more since we never had time to spend at them when we were maxing out time in the parks.

For anyone else feeling priced out, don't despair. Look at it as a blessing and go experience new places. Life is such a great adventure and there are so many beautiful, fun destinations to visit both in and out of this country. That said, I am excited about returning to Disney after the major construction projects are completed.

This was how I felt when I started trying other cruiseline besides Disney. More destinations less money. Our Europe cruise cost half of what a week at Disney World cost. It was very liberating to break the emotional attachment to the mouse.

 

[tzolkin]

I think just like any other luxury, if it is important you will find a way. Instead of having a new fancy car, I take trips to Disney World. Instead of eating out every day I almost always pack lunch. I take coffee to work in the morning. Most everyone has some sort of budget, true. But I don't buy they are pricing out the middle class. But can the middle class buy every new gadget out there, drive top of the line suvs and still afford long trips at the Grand Floridian? Probably not.

We all make choices.

I think this is the most important aspect of answering the OP's question. Can you afford a Disney trip on a middle income? Absolutely. Can you afford a Disney trip with the way most middle income families spend their money? No.

Interesting subject and one that has been going on here since I first perused these forums 13 years ago. And yet the attendance and revenue keeps trucking along even with the financial collapse of 2008. I make a 6-figure income and feel I barely make enough to afford a Disney Vacation, or really any vacation outside of a family trip to DQ for an ice cream.

Anyone, including me, who has put a Disney Vacation on a credit card for which they are paying off with interest charges, is priced out of Disney.

But then I look at my DD17 upcoming college costs for her first choice school, it will be $25,000 that Mom and Dad need to come up with every year. Yep, priced out of private college, but I will sign the loan papers and dream about when a $4,000 Disney vacation seemed expensive...

This is why income shouldn't necessarily define "wealthy" or "middle/upper class".

When our income was around $50k (up until recently), we were able to afford a two-week Disney trip every year while also having zero debt (except mortgage), a generous emergency fund, and saving a substantial amount for retirement.

I am not priced out but I do question the value. I have used my Disney trips as a guide for other trips for years now. Do I want to do xyz or Disney? What could I get for my Disney money instead?

Cost comparison for this year. Twenty days in Italy. Flights, trains and apartments (that are much nicer than Disney rooms) are $3800ish for three people. I couldn't even get into a mod for twenty nights for $3800.

This was exactly our way of thinking. When the kids were younger, we kept going to Disney every year because we found it to be the most valuable/enjoyable trip for the amount of money. Every time we looked into something else, it would have been a fraction of the time for a larger price than just going to Disney. Now, there are lots of other things we could do for the price of a Disney trip.

 

[Westcoastwild]

The cost to go to disney for a family of 4 has become ridiculous. Our last trip was around 7,000 for a week. Some of that was paid by the ebay/target/ebucks loophole so the actual cost was more like $4,000. I realize there are ways to do disney cheaper but staying at all star hotels and eating fast food every meal isn't my cup of tea. (No offense to anyone who chooses these options it's just now how I like to travel) we did try to cut costs by doing a amazon prime delivery with soda, water & snacks. That probably saved us at least $200.

We truly enjoy disney and will absolutely go back again in a couple of years but there are some really awesome places we could visit for a $7,000 price tag.

We talked about getting annual passes for our next trip and doing disney twice in 12 months (first trip in December then the second trip the following November) it would be roughly $400 per person per week. It's not a huge savings but not horrible either.

This is the point I would make. About HOW you choose to stay. Disney, to me, is not WORTH paying for a moderate or above hotel. I don't consider shopping a necessity- my parents weren't big on souvenirs and neither am I. I don't ever pay for dining packages, and unless it was something something reallly unique like a backstage tour, I wouldn't pay extra for anything like parties or meet and greets.

Food does hit my wallet hard but it does on any trip, and I can always splurge early on and cut way back on my last few days. I carry a water bottle. I can't- and I mean can't- drink much alcohol or soda in Fl heat and humidity.

Do I think that Disney charges too much? Sure. Take Fort Wilderness for example. It's awesome. Seriously fantastic. But I just cannot believe they can charge 80/nt for a tent site in August with a straight face. An equivalent amenities campground would be maybe 60, and that would be one one in a fantastic location...like walking distance from a beach town or something. So they're making serious bank there. And probably in their hotels as well because the prices for the Grand FL, Animal Kingdom lodge, etc. are astronomical. Nice hotels? Sure. But I stay at 4/5 star hotels elsewhere, for less, for more amenities, and I still don't think the "luxury" resorts at Disney are truly 5 star hotels.

Not criticizing the poster I've quoted (or anyone else here) at all. If you've got the money and that's your thing, go for it. But if I was going to spend 500/night on a hotel, it'd be in NYC, Paris, or Rome.

So anyway, to me, Disney is good value. Not really because I'm a big spender or have a lot of money. But because we hit the parks hard, it's an all day thing, and the only money we spend (other than plane ticket, park ticket, and lodging) is food. Not a bad days entertainment for the price. You can say the parks cost a lot of money, but in comparison to playing tourist in a city like Boston, it's a bargain. Entertainment, rides, fireworks, all included in the price of a ticket.

Bottom line: there's a big difference between the middle class being priced out and the middle class not being able to afford everything they want. I've noticed that a lot of people who complain about money on these boards consider an awful lot of things to be necessities that I just don't. If they can't get them, they see them as "trip ruiners." I don't get that. If it gets to the point where the hotels are genuinely out of my price range or everyone enjoys other destinations more or Disney customer service goes way, way down hill- then it probably would be the end of it for us. But in reality, flying anywhere and staying in any hotel costs a lot of money for a family. So if Disney priced us out, it probably means that everything other than camping within driving distance has also "priced us out", (meaning Disney ain't the problem).

 

[Westcoastwild]

I am sorry but not at all. First of all the Disney deluxe vs. real life 4-5 star hotels are not really comparable as Disney falls short. We took a 10 night vacation last December to Colorado. We spend 3 nights in Denver, 2 in Breckenridge, 2 in Vail and the last 3 in Beaver creek. Lift tickets are comparable to Disney tickets everything else it doesn't come close. We stayed at 4-5 star hotels the whole time and spend less than $2000 in lodging this included Sonnenalp in Vail which was voted in the 10 best resorts in the US.

Food well I budgeted the same amount that I would for Disney and surprisingly we still had money left over at the end of our vacation and again it doesn't even compare the food quality we ate in the Colorado trip vs Disney. We didn't choose cheap places either we ate at rioja, sweet basil, grouse Mountain grill, linger, etc we didn't eat any fast food or chain restaurant (except for Starbucks for coffee).The same budget for food at Disney doesn't get me the same amount of signature dinning. At Disney we usually eat breakfast in the room and probably one counter service and either one TS or Signature a day and we are AP and have TiW. For comparison how far off Disney is in price we recently went to the arts festival in Epcot I got a sample size of shrimp ceviche, a drink, a piece of cake and a glorify pop tart for $40.

We had to fly to Colorado we usually drive to WDW and still was much cheaper vacation. Just for quick comparison I priced out the contemporary in September(giving WDW benefit of slow season ) since it will be comparable to the places we stayed in Colorado since most of it was ski in/ski out or easy walking distance contemporary comes out to $6738 for 10 nights. Let's say we can get 30% discount it comes down to $4716 which will cover just lodging! If we add tickets, food and transportation it is way way off. The price of lodging in Disney paid my whole Colorado vacation and have a few hundred left.

Sure Disney can be done cheaper but so does Colorado. And don't even get me started how much better the customer service was.

Yeah, that's what gets me. I actually think Disney can be done relatively cheaply. It's when you compare apples to apples that Disney is poor value. Deluxe resorts and sit down dining ESPECIALLY. I think some people see Disney deluxe resorts as outpricing the middle class merely because they're "deluxe". It's like the people who go to Disney every single year and make snide remarks about someone else's European trip. Or the people who consider the Brown Derby to be "fine dining" and thus out of their league. But in fact, my problem is that Disney deluxe resorts and table dining are way, way overpriced for what they are. I can spend a lot less and get a lot more bang for my buck elsewhere, even in historically expensive destinations like Colorado. I stayed in European hotels that were easily as nice or nicer than any moderate- for the price of values at low season. Over the Christmas/NY holidays!

I also know people who would never got to a Michelin starred restaurant because it's "too expensive" but would happily shell out more than that at one of the WDW "fancy" restaurants because it's "exotic" holiday food. I like Disney food for what it is, but it's mind boggling to me that people review those steakhouses as "the best ever". Jiko, I'm looking at you

Anyway...I really don't think people compare apples to apples when it comes to Disney prices. Something blinding about the cult of the Mouse. Maybe it's in the water...

 

[katie111]

Yeah, that's what gets me. I actually think Disney can be done relatively cheaply. It's when you compare apples to apples that Disney is poor value. Deluxe resorts and sit down dining ESPECIALLY. I think some people see Disney deluxe resorts as outpricing the middle class merely because they're "deluxe". It's like the people who go to Disney every single year and make snide remarks about someone else's European trip. Or the people who consider the Brown Derby to be "fine dining" and thus out of their league. But in fact, my problem is that Disney deluxe resorts and table dining are way, way overpriced for what they are. I can spend a lot less and get a lot more bang for my buck elsewhere, even in historically expensive destinations like Colorado. I stayed in European hotels that were easily as nice or nicer than any moderate- for the price of values at low season. Over the Christmas/NY holidays!

I also know people who would never got to a Michelin starred restaurant because it's "too expensive" but would happily shell out more than that at one of the WDW "fancy" restaurants because it's "exotic" holiday food. I like Disney food for what it is, but it's mind boggling to me that people review those steakhouses as "the best ever". Jiko, I'm looking at you

Anyway...I really don't think people compare apples to apples when it comes to Disney prices. Something blinding about the cult of the Mouse. Maybe it's in the water...

Totally agree with this. I think the park ticket prices are high, but okay as long as you can do a long enough trip that the daily price goes down quite a bit. But the hotel & food prices are ridiculous. Last time we went it was just for a long weekend, totally in the off-season. I decided to splurge on the Beach Club as it was such a short trip & in low season so the price didn't seem that bad. However the quality of the hotel was just so poor for what we paid. We stay in a lot of 4-5* hotels (usually through Priceline) and the Disney hotels just can't compare. The pools are great but the maintenance of the rooms, the decor, the service level, etc, just doesn't compare. From now on, we'll just be staying at a Value as we're really just there for the parks and I'd rather save my money for another, non-Disney vacation.

And the food prices are just ridiculous. I know we can share meals and such but that just isn't how we like to vacation. Eating breakfast in the room everyday to save money just becomes a chore. CS meal prices might be comparable to other theme parks but the sit down meals are just ridiculous. Where else are kids considered adults at the age of 10? I can go to any local restaurant at home or when I travel and my 14 year old can order off the kids menu, no questions asked. But at Disney I'm paying $45 for my 10 year old to eat a few bites of food at a buffet that has the same quality as my local Old Country Buffet. I now have 3 kids that are Disney adults and it's just way too expensive to feed them. We love character meals just for the interaction but unless we somehow manage a trip during free dining, I don't think we'll ever do another one.

Our Disney vacations used to be sort of add-on trips, I'd often plan a last minute trip with the kids when my DH was traveling for work (he hates Disney), bot those days are long gone. Now I really need to decide if we want to blow our vacation budget on a Disney trip or go see what the rest of the world has to offer. I think we'll be seeing a lot of the rest of the world.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Yep! I hadn't even thought of the 10 year old policy, but that's so true! I don't know what a good age would be though, honestly. I ate amounts like a a stereotypical boy teen when I was ten, but had the taste of a five year old. Now I like fancy food but probably eat the same amount as a picky ten year old. So if Disney didn't have an age rule, they'd probably have a lot of adults ordering off the kids menu...

 

[kymom99]

The first time I went I felt like the food prices were decent. Especially the CS. My good friends went on their first trip a year or so later and agreed that they were surprised the food wasn't too bad. That was 2004-2005, in that timeframe. 9/11 affected the prices in sure but at that time we could walk up to guest services and get a reservation at any restaurant we wanted. We ate at le cellier by making a reservation when we walked in the park. Then came the big push of the dining plan. I really believed it drove good prices up. Now it seems like the prices are so high and menus very limited. We haven't been in almost 5 years but I have looked at the allears menus. I just can't bring myself to consider spending that much money on an average meal.

As mentioned ed by others, our family circumstances are different now. My son is going to college so we have to watch our finances. We could probably go back, and I really want to sometime, but I will be eating more meals offsite and probably less days in the parks.

 

[scrapquitler]

Bottom line: there's a big difference between the middle class being priced out and the middle class not being able to afford everything they want. I've noticed that a lot of people who complain about money on these boards consider an awful lot of things to be necessities that I just don't. If they can't get them, they see them as "trip ruiners." I don't get that. If it gets to the point where the hotels are genuinely out of my price range or everyone enjoys other destinations more or Disney customer service goes way, way down hill- then it probably would be the end of it for us. But in reality, flying anywhere and staying in any hotel costs a lot of money for a family. So if Disney priced us out, it probably means that everything other than camping within driving distance has also "priced us out", (meaning Disney ain't the problem).

THIS!

I have to chuckle when I see all the 'middle class priced out' kind of comments on the DIS. Mostly all posted by people who at the same time say that they won't stay at a value, won't stay off site, must eat table service, want to do CRT and BBB with the deluxe package, want all the add ons, etc. And they want to do it every year.

YES, Disney is an expensive vacation. But it can be done on a middle class budget if you do simple things to economize, stay in a less expensive resort, forego the pricey extras. You can have a nice Disney vacation on a middle class budget, probably not every year. You can't have a deluxe vacation on a middle class budget.

And, based on what I hear from a couple of friends who vacation in Myrtle Beach every year, you can spend just as much money on a beach vacation as you can at Disney, so it's not JUST Disney that can cost a lot.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Yes. I'm looking at the second week of December and the prices, as usual, are hilarious. Deluxe STARTS at 400-500 a night. That's for the "motel", non view, style rooms that some folks here refuse to stay in. Moderate is more like 200, value is like 150. The only middle class folks I know who would seriously consider the deluxe ones are delusional and living on credit. Or they aren't middle class, and just think they are. That's an insane price for what is basically a tarted up double queen. I mean...I would (and have very occasionally) paid that at truly deluxe resorts, but that doesn't describe any lodging at Disney.

 

[AquaDame]

That's an insane price for what is basically a tarted up double queen. I mean...I would (and have very occasionally) paid that at truly deluxe resorts, but that doesn't describe any lodging at Disney.

I hear this frequently... the way I look at it is paying the insane prices for broken hovels in San Fran, closets in NYC etc. You're paying for location and the 'city' around you more than your actual abode.

 

[maxiesmom]

I don't think it is fair at all to compare a meal at an Old Country Buffet to a buffet with Mickey Mouse, Pluto, or Donald Duck. As with many things at Disney World you are paying a premium for the place, for the characters. You don't get that at OCB. Same with the resorts. The deluxe resorts don't compare to real world deluxe resorts, but at none of those can I hop on a boat and end up at the Magic Kingdom either.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I hear this frequently... the way I look at it is paying the insane prices for broken hovels in San Fran, closets in NYC etc. You're paying for location and the 'city' around you more than your actual abode.

But you are NOT paying 500 a night in Boston, NYC, London, SF, etc. for "broken hovels". In Boston, which is probably the most expensive, I can get an awesome, 4/5 star, historic luxury hotel for that, if I plan ahead. Or an excellent bed and breakfast, breakfast included. Except maybe on holidays. 300 if I want clean and basic. Less than two hundred will get that sought after hovel atmosphere. If my budget is "hovel" I subtract about 140, and stay in a dorm at a "boutique" hostel.

I travel a lot during high season, and I totally get paying for location. But I'm arguing that the "deluxe" experience at Disney is inferior to an a similarly classed hotel in a major tourist destination (that is not Disney). I was impressed by the theming of wilderness and AK, but their food and amenities do not measure up.

(Except pools. Disney kicks serious butt when it comes to their pools).

 

[katie111]

I don't think it is fair at all to compare a meal at an Old Country Buffet to a buffet with Mickey Mouse, Pluto, or Donald Duck. As with many things at Disney World you are paying a premium for the place, for the characters. You don't get that at OCB. Same with the resorts. The deluxe resorts don't compare to real world deluxe resorts, but at none of those can I hop on a boat and end up at the Magic Kingdom either.

I wasn't referring to the "experience" I was just referring to the quality of the food. I still don't think it costs an extra $35 (per person) to pay a couple of people minimum wage to walk around in Disney costumes. I can go to ChuckeCheese and see a guy in a mouse costume for free. Believe me, I enjoy the interactions with the characters, especially when my kids were little, but for a family of five to have to pay almost $250 for that experience is ridiculous. I also understand I can go to Disney and eat CS to save money & wait in line to meet the characters, but I think what the OP was asking is "do you think it's currently too expensive?". And yes, I do think that it is. I can no longer go to Disney the way that I used to. Our income has gone up with inflation but I think Disney prices have increased even more. And we are not "middle class" either, most would say we are upper class.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I wasn't referring to the "experience" I was just referring to the quality of the food. I still don't think it costs an extra $35 to pay a couple of people minimum wage to walk around in Disney costumes. I can go to ChuckeCheese and see a guy in a mouse costume for free. Believe me, I enjoy the interactions with the characters, especially when my kids were little, but for a family of five to have to pay almost $250 for that experience is ridiculous. I also understand I can go to Disney and eat CS to save money & wait in line to meet the characters, but I think what the OP was asking is "do you think it's currently too expensive?". And yes, I do think that it is. I can no longer go to Disney the way that I used to. Our income has gone up with inflation but I think Disney prices have increased even more. And we are not "middle class" either, most would say we are upper class.

I wouldn't shell out the money for that, but I get your point. The only recent experience I've had with a Disney buffet was really over priced- and it was not a character meal either. I remember thinking that if they insisted on doing a weekend buffet they could at least rotate the food. Or have an omelet bar or make you own waffles. Because if I wanted half hour old French toast or cold rubbery eggs I could have gotten that for free at cheap hotel.

 

[dreiwhit]

IMHO, all Disney food is overpriced. It killed me to pay over $60 for hamburgers, french fries and a soft drink for my family at Disney. On our last trip, the QS food got old after a couple of days. We went by the Subway next to our condo, bought sandwiches for everyone and ate them at lunch in the parks. It cost much less than QS food and was (IMHO) tastier!

When we were planning our last trip, we checked into staying at a value resort. The cheapest quote we got for a week at a value resort, non hopper tickets for four for six days and the lowest free dining plan would have cost us $4400! We ended up buying tickets at our local ITT office for $1307 and a week in a condo (with full kitchen, two bedrooms and washer and dryer) for $349. I don't remember what we spent for food in the park, out of the park and groceries from Wal Mart, but it was probably $400. So went spent $2000-ish for that, and saved $2400-ish. That's a huge chunk of change. I'll gladly skip the "Disney Experience" to save $2K!

 

[Hikergirl]

Yes. I'm looking at the second week of December and the prices, as usual, are hilarious. Deluxe STARTS at 400-500 a night. That's for the "motel", non view, style rooms that some folks here refuse to stay in. Moderate is more like 200, value is like 150. The only middle class folks I know who would seriously consider the deluxe ones are delusional and living on credit. Or they aren't middle class, and just think they are. That's an insane price for what is basically a tarted up double queen. I mean...I would (and have very occasionally) paid that at truly deluxe resorts, but that doesn't describe any lodging at Disney.

But that doesn't mean the middle class is priced out. They may be priced out of Deluxe resorts, but they still have the option of staying in a mod or a value.
And time of year is going to matter, dh and I spent our last WDW vacation in September in a deluxe resort and I paid $238 a night for a studio "villa".
I think when it comes to WDW, people just want a champagne vacation on a beer budget. That just isn't going to happen.

ETA, I don't measure Disney "deluxe" to hotels and resorts outside of WDW. I measure them compared to the other options on site.

 

[Westcoastwild]

But that doesn't mean the middle class is priced out. They may be priced out of Deluxe resorts, but they still have the option of staying in a mod or a value.
And time of year is going to matter, dh and I spent our last WDW vacation in September in a deluxe resort and I paid $238 a night for a studio "villa".
I think when it comes to WDW, people just want a champagne vacation on a beer budget. That just isn't going to happen.

Yes, I agree. That's what I was arguing. The moderate and value are the same price of hotels that you'd see off property.

 

[Beer Me]

I agree that WDW is overpriced in general. However, they offer a unique vacation experience so every 2-4 years we bite the bullet and it's worth it to see my family having fun.

Let's not just single out Disney though. Staying at the Hard Rock for a Universal vacation was about the same price as our upcoming Beach Club Disney trip. The bill hurt but again, we had a great time.