LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Luckybee]

This is a fantastic idea, but would probably have to be limited to "Value Season". Instead of trying to lure people in during the slower months, (weeks? days?) with Free Dining, they should immediately implement something along these lines. Wouldn't even have to do it every day. Maybe every other day, or every third day if they wanted to. Wouldn't cost Disney a penny. Bye-bye Free Dining. Hello "Extra Magic Days".


The system could handle it on slower days. We are already told that people are getting 8-12 FP+ on slow days. And to prevent the system from being overburdened, what Disney could do is, instead of allowing people to pre-book 6 FPs, they could set up the system to allow guests to book 3 (or 2, or 1 as appropriate) extra FPs only once they enter the park, and only at a kiosk. So you go in with 3 pre-booked. But you could book your extras immediately upon entering the park without having to use up your first 3. Not everyone would do it, so you wouldn't likely overtax the system. And, of course, the extra FPs would be "per availability" so there is no such thing as overtaxing the system. If 7DMT is not available at 9:00 a.m. as an "Extra Magic FP+", then it isn't available. You can't "hand out more than ever". The upper limit is the upper limit.



...she says on page 38 of this endless, back-and-forth thread!

On the last part I was thinking the same thing

 

[JimmyV]

Even if did, it's a drop in the ocean.

Every drop in the ocean is representative of the composition of rest of the ocean. I don't need to taste every ounce of sea water to know that it is all salty.

 

[Luckybee]

Cake if you really think it's just a few posters who are unhappy you really haven't been reading other threads objectively imho. Some are not as vocal as others but there are very few who love fp+ . It seems to me that the biggest group are those who tolerate it because they want to go to Disney and they work with it but would rather see changes. From my read there are just a handful of posters who think that it is great in the present form.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Again perhaps you don't see it but when we were there we heard nothing but griping from a whole lot of people. We know no one other than on these boards and certainly not a majority who seem to think that fp+ is wonderful in its present form. Imho in the long run this will hurt Disney. Eventually they will have to do something, and hopefully for them they will before another recession hits and they don't have customers with the same level of loyalty to depend on to keep them going.

I wonder if it makes a difference in our opinions. I heard only one griper in 10 visits and they are making an extra effort to be quite vocal in the POTC FP+ line. Coming off the ride, she has to throw in her love of that ride as well letting the rest of her party know what was original and what was not to the ride.

And I only heard her because she WANTED to be heard by everyone within shouting distance. By I truly didn't hear any other complaints. That isn't to say everyone loved it. No way to gauge that.

So are you hearing negative because you have have a negative opinion and I am not because I don't?

It would seem that if this is going to hurt Disney because there are a lot of dissatisfied customers, then there would be at least more than one person for me to hear.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Every drop in the ocean is representative of the composition of rest of the ocean. I don't need to taste every ounce of sea water to know that it is all salty.

But does that negative opinion drop make a difference in the grand scheme?

This is what has not been proven.

 

[cakebaker]

Cake if you really think it's just a few posters who are unhappy you really haven't been reading other threads objectively imho. Some are not as vocal as others but there are very few who love fp+ . It seems to me that the biggest group are those who tolerate it because they want to go to Disney and they work with it but would rather see changes. From my read there are just a handful of posters who think that it is great in the present form.

What I said was, there weren't many people on this thread- an insignificant number. We were talking this thread, not the entire forum. Still...

I have no doubt, a huge majority of the Dis, does not like FP+. Then again, a huge majority of the Dis are long time, multi-trip guests who grew quite fond of paper fp and the ability to re-ride popular rides many times a day. I have no doubt that type of visitor is very unhappy with FP+- I just don't think the Dis is representative of the average WDW guest.

And the numbers back me up- record attendance. It's not just that people stopped going- more and more are coming. If the unhappy guest is still coming, despite the fact that they don't like it- it's a huge win for Disney. There's no incentive for them to change a thing.

 

[Luckybee]

I wonder if it makes a difference in our opinions. I heard only one griper in 10 visits and they are making an extra effort to be quite vocal in the POTC FP+ line. Coming off the ride, she has to throw in her love of that ride as well letting the rest of her party know what was original and what was not to the ride.

And I only heard her because she WANTED to be heard by everyone within shouting distance. By I truly didn't hear any other complaints. That isn't to say everyone loved it. No way to gauge that.

So are you hearing negative because you have have a negative opinion and I am not because I don't?

It would seem that if this is going to hurt Disney because there are a lot of dissatisfied customers, then there would be at least more than one person for me to hear.

I dunno...perhaps because we don't like it we're listening for it more. All I know is that we've had a fair number of friends and family who have gone and for one reason or another most didn't like it(Im talking about 30 people altogether and the range was from, "hey this booking rides thing was great to it sucked and we wont go back". Also , on more than one occasion we saw/heard in kiosk lines people griping amongst themselves and to the cm's . On any message board Ive read there have been people griping. On here over and over and over again I've read where people don't like tiering, or don't like 3 only, or don't like the lack of spontaneity, or, or ,or , or .....and this isn't just those who are vocal.

 

[JimmyV]

Cake if you really think it's just a few posters who are unhappy you really haven't been reading other threads objectively imho. Some are not as vocal as others but there are very few who love fp+ .

I'll put it another way, and one that, I think, is noncontroversial...

Even the most strident lover of all things FP+ wouldn't object to the idea of getting an additional FP provided that the system and crowd levels could support same. One could love FP+ with their entire heart and soul, and if WDW announced that the new number of guaranteed FPs was being upped to 4 in slower months, not a single one of these lovers would start a thread here titled: "OMG. Disney just added a 4th FP. This is a terrible idea!!!"
So I am not sure why cakebaker feels compelled to shoot down a suggested improvement.

So are you hearing negative because you have have a negative opinion and I am not because I don't?

It would seem that if this is going to hurt Disney because there are a lot of dissatisfied customers, then there would be at least more than one person for me to hear.

I don't think so. We can only absorb what we experience. My experience? When waiting in kiosk lines, the overwhelming sentiment was that people felt that 3 FPs was too few, and that having to wait in kiosk lines in order to bypass Standby lines was rather pointless. I am not saying that many or any of these people were shouting from the rooftops that they hated FP+. I am merely suggesting that many, many people found features that they thought could or should be improved. Let's not mistake those who would like to see further evolution of the current system for people who outright hate the current system.

 

[JimmyV]

And the numbers back me up- record attendance. It's not just that people stopped going- more and more are coming. If the unhappy guest is still coming, despite the fact that they don't like it- it's a huge win for Disney. There's no incentive for them to change a thing.

This is where critical thinking breaks down. The rooster crows when the sun comes up. So the rooster made the sun come up.
FP+ in its current form has been around for less than a year. People book their vacations well in advance. What percentage of people do you really think came to WDW between May, 2014 and today specifically because Disney implemented FP+? And don't forget that DLR, which does not use FP+, has seen parallel attendance growth. No. FP+ is not a reason for increased attendance. Not yet, anyway.

As for having an incentive to change things, that all depends on feedback. Don't lose sight of the fact that the vast, vast majority of people who have used FP+ have used it exactly once so far. It is the Dis'ers who go 4 times a year. So if the guests who have been to WDW over the past 6-8 months are being surveyed and they have suggestions for Disney on how to improve the system, then, yes, Disney does have an incentive to change things. Leave everyone who is posting here out of the equation for a moment. Leave all Dis'ers out of the equation for a moment. Assume that the person who used FP+ in July or December, 2014 booked their vacation 6-8 months in advance and has not returned since their last visit. We have absolutely nothing to base a conclusion on that said people love (or hate) FP+. We have no way of knowing if, when asked in a survey, they told Disney that they would like to see changes made. One cannot leap to the conclusion that record attendance in 2014 is proof, in and of itself, that the vast majority of guests are happy. And there is nothing to prove that they are angry. We just have to concede that so far, we know nothing.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I dunno...perhaps because we don't like it we're listening for it more. All I know is that we've had a fair number of friends and family who have gone and for one reason or another most didn't like it(Im talking about 30 people altogether and the range was from, "hey this booking rides thing was great to it sucked and we wont go back". Also , on more than one occasion we saw/heard in kiosk lines people griping amongst themselves and to the cm's . On any message board Ive read there have been people griping. On here over and over and over again I've read where people don't like tiering, or don't like 3 only, or don't like the lack of spontaneity, or, or ,or , or .....and this isn't just those who are vocal.

Admittedly, we have only been in a kiosk like twice and it was for a 4th FP later in the day. Lines were on the short side. So it could have have been folks were keeping to themselves as I didn't hear good nor bad.

I do see a lot of on-line griping. But that seems to be more caustic than anything.

I have seen LESS here over the past several months. Not as prolific as it was even a year ago. I think as Disney works around issues and expansions, the complaints specific to FP+ have reduced.

Now--ride availability in EPCOT and DHS is a problem. But that wasn't a FP+ issue so much as it was a ride issue. DHS is being addressed. Poor EPCOT--don't know what their long range plans are, but seriously! (And no way would they have invested one billion in to that, but how cool of a future world could have been bought). And AK is undergoing a serious transformation.

I personally think that many complainers out on the interwebs (not here at all that I have noticed) are just wanting Disney to have a fall from grace. It comes across in their tone--as much tone as one can read anyway. So I tend to disregard those kind of complaints

FP+ has its pros and cons. I don't think the cons are so great to declare it a failure. I do a knowledge this is solely my opinion and do see how others might reach an opposite opinion.

 

[JimmyV]

But does that negative opinion drop make a difference in the grand scheme?

This is what has not been proven.

Or disproven. See post 769 above.

 

[Luckybee]

What I said was, there weren't many people on this thread- an insignificant number. We were talking this thread, not the entire forum. Still...

I have no doubt, a huge majority of the Dis, does not like FP+. Then again, a huge majority of the Dis are long time, multi-trip guests who grew quite fond of paper fp and the ability to re-ride popular rides many times a day. I have no doubt that type of visitor is very unhappy with FP+- I just don't think the Dis is representative of the average WDW guest.

And the numbers back me up- record attendance. It's not just that people stopped going- more and more are coming. If the unhappy guest is still coming, despite the fact that they don't like it- it's a huge win for Disney. There's no incentive for them to change a thing.

I don't want to rehash things that have already been dealt with but if other parks ie: Universal is up by a higher % and all entertainment is up by a higher % then as a Disney exec I would actually be concerned by that and would not be considering that as a huge win. Let me give you an example. Dh and I are self employed. We noticed our billings were down last year and we were concerned since that was the first time that has ever happened. Then we found out that others in the same field were also down. We did a fair amount of digging to make certain that we were not taking a bigger hit than anyone else in our profession Voila...this was across the board. We found out why business was down. Other than the reason why everyone was down it wasnt something specific to us and not something within our control. We now have to plan within the changes to the overall model knowing that the climate has changed. The same would have been true in the contra. Business being up is always a good thing but any business owner will tell you that if you are only up by the same or a smaller percentage than your competitor then you are not where you want to be.

 

[cakebaker]

Assume that the person who used FP+ in July or December, 2014 booked their vacation 6-8 months in advance and has not returned since their last visit. We have absolutely nothing to base a conclusion on that said people love (or hate) FP+. We have no way of knowing if, when asked in a survey, they told Disney that they would like to see changes made. One cannot leap to the conclusion that record attendance in 2014 is proof, in and of itself, that the vast majority of guests are happy. And there is nothing to prove that they are angry. We just have to concede that so far, we know nothing.

And this we can agree on.

So when I hear these reports of anger in the parks and the gloom and doom of wait till this, or that or the other thing that's on the horizon, my response is....nothing yet. Haven't seen a thing to make me think there's a problem. I'm not saying FP+ is causing an increase in attendance- I'm saying more people are coming, despite the fact they know up front the changes that are made. Why they're coming, I have no idea other than they want to.
They may not have experienced it in the park, but they know it's here. They know what they're having to do up front, long before they get there and in plenty of time to cancel. Surely you wouldn't say that one can't actually understand how fp+ works if they haven't actually tried it, would you?

And so if it's as you say,there hasn't been enough time, we certainly can't expect that Disney will come in and make a huge change to how their system currently works. Why would they? The fact that "you" don't like the way it works for "you" does not equate to a failure on Disney's part. This supposed need to revamp and re-work it to make it a success assumes that it's a failure and we don't know that and we have nothing concrete to even lead us in that direction.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't think so. We can only absorb what we experience. My experience? When waiting in kiosk lines, the overwhelming sentiment was that people felt that 3 FPs was too few, and that having to wait in kiosk lines in order to bypass Standby lines was rather pointless. I am not saying that many or any of these people were shouting from the rooftops that they hated FP+. I am merely suggesting that many, many people found features that they thought could or should be improved. Let's not mistake those who would like to see further evolution of the current system for people who outright hate the current system.

I think that is fair. But does desire for evolution/improvement equate to failure?

 

[cakebaker]

I don't want to rehash things that have already been dealt with ...

And neither do I, but you make the point that others have tried to explain.... You assume because you don't like the system it's a failure and you go hunting for reasons to prove it. It isn't just that you don't like it, it's that it's bad policy, it's bad for the company. When in reality, it's just bad for you.

When I post that Disney had record attendance or profits, it isn't because I think it proves the success of FP+. It's to counter the notion that somehow, because the way they choose to operate their parks doesn't work for someone, it's a horrible mistake that needs correcting. Maybe it is, but it's going to have show some signs first- and it hasn't.

 

[JimmyV]

...

 

[JimmyV]

So when I hear these reports of anger in the parks and the gloom and doom of wait till this, or that or the other thing that's on the horizon, my response is....nothing yet. Haven't seen a thing to make me think there's a problem.

The fact that we don't know the metrics of happy/angry does not mean that the dissatisfaction that people are personally witnessing in the parks isn't real. But here, the adage that "people complain more loudly than they praise" holds true. The dad who waited at the kiosk and didn't get that 4th FP for Soarin' might swear and grumble as he passes all the other people in line on his way out of the area. And we hear him. But few people dance a jig and cheer loudly about the fact that they just scored a 4th FP for Pooh. So it is true that we hear more anger than joy. You say that you haven't seen any of this. But don't disbelieve those who say that they have.

Surely you wouldn't say that one can't actually understand how fp+ works if they haven't actually tried it, would you?

Oh, I can absolutely say that. The majority of guests come from off site. They do not get bombarded with emails from Disney telling them to "lock it in". I have no idea what the percentage of guests are who buy their passes the day that they first use them, nor do I know the number of foreign guests. But I am comfortable with the notion that these sub-groups comprise a group of guests who haven't a clue how to use FP+ until they arrive.

And so if it's as you say,there hasn't been enough time, we certainly can't expect that Disney will come in and make a huge change to how their system currently works. Why would they?

They would if guest satisfaction surveys tell them to. I can assure you that back at HQ, Disney is revisiting this every day. Well, maybe not literally every day. But you know what I mean. Maybe they have concluded so far that nothing needs to change. Maybe they have concluded otherwise. But it absolutely is the case that Disney has reason to change if people are telling them that they should.

 

[JimmyV]

But does desire for evolution/improvement equate to failure?

A great, and ponderous philosophical question. If the desire for improvement is vast, and the ability to make the change exists, but the change is not forthcoming, then yes, that could be seen as failure. I'm not at all certain how or if that statement applies to FP+, but that is my philosophical answer.

 

[cakebaker]

"Oh, I can absolutely say that. The majority of guests come from off site. They do not get bombarded with emails from Disney telling them to "lock it in". I have no idea what the percentage of guests are who buy their passes the day that they first use them, nor do I know the number of foreign guests. But I am comfortable with the notion that these sub-groups comprise a group of guests who haven't a clue how to use FP+ until they arrive."

You misunderstood-what I was asking was did you think that meant one does not have to actually experience FP+ in order to decide if they like it or if it works for them, not did they understand the nuts and bolts. But there are literally millions of people who are booking on site who do get those notifications and who do know long before they go what FP+ is and we know Disney's on site occupancy rates are extremely high- so not many are staying away from on site. Some percentage that neither you or I know, walk into the park unaware. No point in us arguing that- I think it's a tiny fraction, you think it's larger. Neither of us know.

"They would if guest satisfaction surveys tell them to. I can assure you that back at HQ, Disney is revisiting this every day. Well, maybe not literally every day. But you know what I mean. Maybe they have concluded so far that nothing needs to change. Maybe they have concluded otherwise. But it absolutely is the case that Disney has reason to change if people are telling them that they should."

Yes, if Disney has had enough time to see negative effects, they probably will make changes to negate those negatives when and if they can. You're the one who said there hadn't been enough time. And it's one of two things- either there is not an overall problem that would make them need to make such massive changes or 2) there hasn't been enough time.

But again, my point is simply this- The fact that FP+ does not work for a particular person in no way suggests that the system itself is a failure. And that we have, as of yet, not seen anything concrete or otherwise that would suggest it is anything more than it just doesn't work for everyone.

 

[BugsDaddy]

If FP+ is a failure, it is certainly not showing on Disneys bottom line. Considering that a lot of the detractors are also here to plan their next WDW vacation, I would have to say Disney- 1, FP detractors- 0. If we were keeping score, that is.

I also think that the opinion (and that is all it is) that most people dislike FP + on this specific message board is not based on fact.