Let's Debate Over-Protecting Our Kids

[Mkrop]

I reeeealy think a lot of this is city/non.

I know there are coddlers who live in a city and non-coddlers who do not, absolutely.

In a general sense though, in my experience both as a kid and adult, city kids tend toward much greater independence and suburban kids tend toward much less.

Among kids I know now, and kids in my own family, the suburban/more rural ones get driven everyplace, aren't allowed to go places alone, have curfews fairly early - and their parents manage their schedules. Like the kids don't know when they have stuff to do, it's always 'mom/dad can I go X, when can I do Y on Tuesday?'

The city kids go places themselves, most all take public transportation to and from school themselves, kids go out and take cabs themselves, etc., and they keep their own schedules. That's a big one I've noticed. In the 'burbs, the kids ask the parents about the schedule, in the city, the parents ask the kids.

Never met a city kid couldn't order dinner by him or her self, or walk whereever or take the train downtown to hang out with friends, or etc., etc., but have seen plenty of suburban kids who aren't allowed to go to the mall by themselves, they have to be dropped off, call at X time, be picked up at Y time - IF they're allowed to wander around the mall, ONLY in a group, for a couple of hours.

I think it's odd, especially as the suburban type parents tend to largely think of the city as more dangerous, but the city parents tend to obviously not see it that way.

Again, I know this isn't a universal, it's my experience, though among many, many families.

As a suburban mom, I can say that my kids are reliant on me for transportation bc there is no public transportation to get them to a place to hang out and eat or even to the mall. And they have to ask me to see if their social life will fit into my schedule bc I have other things to do and other children to worry about. So it is not necessarily not wanting to give them independence in certain areas, logistically there are not ways for this to happen.

I think it is funny bc I am sure our parents were whining and complaining about how we were all going to turn out, and their parents before them etc. Each generation has had certain things easier and certain things that are more of a challenge.

 

[pacrosby]

I know right? I would never dream of ditching my kid at the curb. That is so odd to me.

My dd is a JR this yr and she packed up her car with dad's help of course and moved herself in this yr. She learned minimalism.

"And don't let the car door hit you on the way out" LOL


It's obvious that some believe that their ultimate goal, as parent, is to successfully cut the apron strings and get the kid(s) out of the nest. Parenthood is defined as an 18 yr commitment and continued dependence, of any kind but especially of the emotional variety, on either end (parent or child) seem to equate with failure.

I get the desire to prepare your children for adulthood but nobody should be forced to go out into the world without love and support from their family. In my world, you don't out grow, family is forever.

 

[badblackpug]

I work part-time, so I'm home in the mornings. I drive the kids to school because I can, not because I'm coddling them. I hope people don't see it that way. Just trying to be helpful.

If I stayed home and made them walk I suppose people could assume I was lazy. There is no winning in these types of discussions.

I do what I do because I want to and I don't care what others are thinking.

You are being too literal. I just used this as an example because, in my case, I think it is utterly ridiculous to drive a perfectly healthy 14 year old 75 yards.

I was discussing more in an overall sense. I have friends whose children can (or won't) do literally anything for themselves. My friends 10 year old son cannot even make a sandwich, because his mother does everything for him. If he wants a sandwich, she makes it. If he wants a drink she pours it. She makes her college-age daughter arrange her schedule so she can walk him home from school. She only cooks the foods he likes. When he is in trouble at school (and that is frequently) she is always the 1st to make an excuse as to why he did what he did, or she outright blames the teacher. Since he never learns from his mistakes he repeats them. No one will babysit for this kid because no one is allowed to discipline him, or tell him "no." He has no responsibilities at home. My friend sleeps in her son's twin bed, so that her son can sleep in her bed (with her husband) because, even at 10, he is afraid to sleep alone. He is afraid of a lot of things, and I think that this is because he is never given the opportunity to try to accomplish anything independently. He is big for his age, but very immature. The other kids tease him (I'm not saying that that is right) because he is a "baby," and still has tantrums when he doesn't get his way, or is corrected in school. I would almost feel sorry for him, but he has a very self important attitude.

I will be the 1st to admit that my kids aren't perfect, and neither am I. My kids screw things up and pay the consequences. I lose my temper and yell, and *gasp* even swear at them, but my goal is to raise children that can function as adults in society. They may make a few mistakes along the way, they may learn a few hard lessons, but I think that all children need to be prepared for the day when their parents are no longer able to fix everything for them.

 

[cornflake]

As a suburban mom, I can say that my kids are reliant on me for transportation bc there is no public transportation to get them to a place to hang out and eat or even to the mall. And they have to ask me to see if their social life will fit into my schedule bc I have other things to do and other children to worry about. So it is not necessarily not wanting to give them independence in certain areas, logistically there are not ways for this to happen.

I think it is funny bc I am sure our parents were whining and complaining about how we were all going to turn out, and their parents before them etc. Each generation has had certain things easier and certain things that are more of a challenge.

Most everyplace but the most rural areas though, have public transportation. Most suburbs have public transit. It may not be like a school bus that stops right on the corner but buses in every suburb I know exist and go to the town center, to the mall, etc. You may have to walk a couple blocks over to get the bus and know the schedule it runs on but it exists.

 

[pacrosby]

Oh, please folks; I was being figurative. Of course I'll help him carry the boxes inside, etc. -- my point was that it will be his move to arrange, and I won't be pretending that it is MY college experience, too. I won't be lingering, walking around campus scoping out the library or the fitness facilities or going to any meetings, etc. (Some colleagues of mine who work in a university library recently found themselves expected to give library orientation to parents on move-in day. Why? Parents cannot use the library resources unless they are falsely using their child's university ID.)

Well my apologies then for misunderstanding, but I do wish you had just said what you meant rather than paint a picture of yourself as one of those 'be off with you' parents. Sadly they do exist.

My folks actually attended an open house/tour at my graduate school with me. I was in my early twenties. While I was certainly capable of going alone, it was actually nice to have another set of eyes and ears. Their attendence also signified their support. Personally I think you may be misinterpreting why many parents' choose to attend college orientation events.

 

[disykat]

Most everyplace but the most rural areas though, have public transportation. Most suburbs have public transit. It may not be like a school bus that stops right on the corner but buses in every suburb I know exist and go to the town center, to the mall, etc. You may have to walk a couple blocks over to get the bus and know the schedule it runs on but it exists.

You really believe this? I grew up in an area of roughly 60K people. I'd hardly call it "a most rural area" but there was no bus and still isn't. Buses are more of a city and their surrounding suburbs kind of thing. Where I live now, we're communting distance to a city so we have busses - but it's a two mile walk to the nearest bus stop.

 

[pacrosby]

Most everyplace but the most rural areas though, have public transportation. Most suburbs have public transit. It may not be like a school bus that stops right on the corner but buses in every suburb I know exist and go to the town center, to the mall, etc. You may have to walk a couple blocks over to get the bus and know the schedule it runs on but it exists.

Ummmm...I'm sorry but this is simply not true. Not even close.


I think this is yet another case where we need to remember that our personal experiences are not necessarily reflective of everyone else's. Waaay too much generalizing going on.

 

[badblackpug]

Most everyplace but the most rural areas though, have public transportation. Most suburbs have public transit. It may not be like a school bus that stops right on the corner but buses in every suburb I know exist and go to the town center, to the mall, etc. You may have to walk a couple blocks over to get the bus and know the schedule it runs on but it exists.

I have to kind of defend the PP. My town is small enough that you can walk to the town center. While public transport does exist, and true the bus stop is either 2 1/2 blocks or 5 blocks from my house, depending on which bus you need, to get to the mall you have to catch the bus to another larger (yet still small LOL) city, walk across a busy 4 lane road, and transfer to another bus to the mall. ...and the bus stop where you transfer actually IS in a high crime neighborhood. It's about an hour trip, depending on the wait for the transfer. I can drive to the mall in 10 minutes.

An aside, but you know what is funny? There isn't a single 14 year old that is embarrassed to get a ride from their parents, no matter how short the distance, but that same 14 year old would be MORTIFIED if mommy showed up to walk them home.

 

[andymattmom]

Difficult subject. Sure I'd let my kids walk home if I lived that close to school. I have to drive my kids to school because we go out of district and aren't able to have a bus. Soon my oldest can drive and I won't have to drive them and they can get to school on their own. They are able to do things with their friends and they will text and let me know change of plans or ask if they can go someplace else. Nice thing about texting is nobody knows its mom they are talking to.

They have had chores since 4 years old. They cleared the table and helped set starting at that age, little things not everything but still do that. Also, they did at that age and still do clean. Granted a 4 year old doesn't do as much as a teenager but they learned responsibility.

So they do have freedom and restrictions and responsibility. Now do I coddle- I will probably get slammed for this but my kids are in high school and I still make them breakfast! Yes, they can make it for themselves but I don't work outside the house and we will eat breakfast together and talk about what is going on that day, etc. Thankfully we are able to do this. My kids can and do make their own meals but this is one thing I have always done and will do till they go off to college.

It is always interesting to see how different we all are as parents.

 

[Mkrop]

I reeeealy think a lot of this is city/non.

I know there are coddlers who live in a city and non-coddlers who do not, absolutely.

In a general sense though, in my experience both as a kid and adult, city kids tend toward much greater independence and suburban kids tend toward much less.

Among kids I know now, and kids in my own family, the suburban/more rural ones get driven everyplace, aren't allowed to go places alone, have curfews fairly early - and their parents manage their schedules. Like the kids don't know when they have stuff to do, it's always 'mom/dad can I go X, when can I do Y on Tuesday?'

The city kids go places themselves, most all take public transportation to and from school themselves, kids go out and take cabs themselves, etc., and they keep their own schedules. That's a big one I've noticed. In the 'burbs, the kids ask the parents about the schedule, in the city, the parents ask the kids.

Never met a city kid couldn't order dinner by him or her self, or walk whereever or take the train downtown to hang out with friends, or etc., etc., but have seen plenty of suburban kids who aren't allowed to go to the mall by themselves, they have to be dropped off, call at X time, be picked up at Y time - IF they're allowed to wander around the mall, ONLY in a group, for a couple of hours.

I think it's odd, especially as the suburban type parents tend to largely think of the city as more dangerous, but the city parents tend to obviously not see it that way.

Again, I know this isn't a universal, it's my experience, though among many, many families.

Most everyplace but the most rural areas though, have public transportation. Most suburbs have public transit. It may not be like a school bus that stops right on the corner but buses in every suburb I know exist and go to the town center, to the mall, etc. You may have to walk a couple blocks over to get the bus and know the schedule it runs on but it exists.

Well I must not live in most suburbs. We have public transportation, it does not go to the mall, it would take several buses to get there. Our buses go into Philly and through a bad neighborhood at that. My kid could take a bus into our college town but this would require him to walk several miles on a busy road with no sidewalks. Many accidents have occurred on this road. So I could take him up to the bus stop if they had a desire to eat in the college town but at that rate I would be in town much faster if I drove him. And depending on the time of day, the bar scene is pretty happening so I would like him not to go there at night. Luckily the kids are content to hang a other friend's houses, go to school dances where we carpool or the local ice skating rink where no public buses go.

Where I grew up was a suburban town as well but a public bus came right through our development. My friend and I were the only ones allowed to ride the bus to the mall, all the other moms refused and drove us there.

Not every city, town or suburb is lay out exactly the same.

 

[clutter]

Most everyplace but the most rural areas though, have public transportation. Most suburbs have public transit. It may not be like a school bus that stops right on the corner but buses in every suburb I know exist and go to the town center, to the mall, etc. You may have to walk a couple blocks over to get the bus and know the schedule it runs on but it exists.

Um, no. Some suburbs are VERY spread out. The DC metro area and Fairfax county have great public transportation systems that have a lot of "Park n' Ride" lots. Most communities are not walkable to a bus stop. My dd14 can walk to a shopping center and to school and to many friend's houses. But anything else (such as a movie), she's dependent on a parent to drive.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Most everyplace but the most rural areas though, have public transportation. Most suburbs have public transit. It may not be like a school bus that stops right on the corner but buses in every suburb I know exist and go to the town center, to the mall, etc. You may have to walk a couple blocks over to get the bus and know the schedule it runs on but it exists.

Well just for fun, I had to go look up your theory. While it is POSSIBLE to do what you say, it is utterly ludicrous. Map is below.

I can drive to the mall in 15-20 mins.

Oh and if you are in St. Charles County MO there is NO, nada, NOTHING with public transportation. That is a bone of contention for our area.

http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&...dr=chesterfield mall&date=09/27/2011&dirflg=r

 

[NotUrsula]

Most everyplace but the most rural areas though, have public transportation. Most suburbs have public transit. It may not be like a school bus that stops right on the corner but buses in every suburb I know exist and go to the town center, to the mall, etc. You may have to walk a couple blocks over to get the bus and know the schedule it runs on but it exists.

Um ... no. There are enormous areas of the US that have no intra-community public transit of any kind. Then there are also areas that have some transit, but only in certain directions and at limited times. Look into the issue of "reverse commuting" if you don't believe me. My MSA has around 4 million residents, but at least half of the geographic area has no public transit after 6 pm or on weekends, and about 25% of it has no transit at all.

There are also some places where money isn't the issue. When light rail was built here there were communities that lobbied against being on the routes; they were afraid it would bring in "an undesirable element."

The American Public Transit Association maintains an exhaustive list of US transit agencies http://www.apta.com/resources/links/unitedstates/Pages/default.aspx

For an example: look at the list for Louisiana. You will notice that there are 3 parishes (counties) that are listed as having no transit at all, and that seems not too bad, until you start counting how many parishes only have transit for disabled adult and the aged, or whose only "transit agency" is a ferry. Plaquemines Parish has a population of over 23K, many of whom commute into New Orleans to work and to shop; there are around 3000 high school aged kids living in the parish. Plaquemines covers an area of 2,429 square miles, and the only public transit is one ferry.

BTW, St. Charles County, MO? 592 sq.mi., with a population of 361K.

 

[Coconut36]

Well my apologies then for misunderstanding, but I do wish you had just said what you meant rather than paint a picture of yourself as one of those 'be off with you' parents. Sadly they do exist.

My folks actually attended an open house/tour at my graduate school with me. I was in my early twenties. While I was certainly capable of going alone, it was actually nice to have another set of eyes and ears. Their attendence also signified their support. Personally I think you may be misinterpreting why many parents' choose to attend college orientation events.

I agree. My job as a parent doesn't magically end the moment they turn 18. I think there is a lot of assuming going on about why a parent attends a college orientation. A library tour for the parents? Probably not necessary and there are some that go a bit too far but touring the campus with your child, seeing their dorm room, and so on is not coddling or over protecting them IMO but offering their love and support for a new chapter in their child's life.

I think either side can be an unfortunate extreme..the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" mentality and the "Mommy will check out your books and research and write your papers". There is a happy medium and it can involve orientations and school tours

 

[Kat77]

Most everyplace but the most rural areas though, have public transportation. Most suburbs have public transit. It may not be like a school bus that stops right on the corner but buses in every suburb I know exist and go to the town center, to the mall, etc. You may have to walk a couple blocks over to get the bus and know the schedule it runs on but it exists.

Not true for me either. I live in the suburbs between two cities- Dallas and Fort Worth. We have no bus or trolley systems and a serious lack of sidewalks and crosswalks. It is not possible to walk into town without risking your life at some point in the journey.
The majority of children do walk to school as our district will not bus anyone within a two mile radius. My girls have three classmates who have been hit by cars within the last few years. One was hit by a teacher . All incidents were at marked crosswalks without a crossing guard present. Sooo... I drive my kids even though they would prefer to walk with their friends.

 

[Sorsha]

Most everyplace but the most rural areas though, have public transportation. Most suburbs have public transit. It may not be like a school bus that stops right on the corner but buses in every suburb I know exist and go to the town center, to the mall, etc. You may have to walk a couple blocks over to get the bus and know the schedule it runs on but it exists.

You really believe this? I grew up in an area of roughly 60K people. I'd hardly call it "a most rural area" but there was no bus and still isn't. Buses are more of a city and their surrounding suburbs kind of thing. Where I live now, we're communting distance to a city so we have busses - but it's a two mile walk to the nearest bus stop.

Ummmm...I'm sorry but this is simply not true. Not even close.


I think this is yet another case where we need to remember that our personal experiences are not necessarily reflective of everyone else's. Waaay too much generalizing going on.

Yup - not even going to get involved on the whole coddling/not-coddling children discussion thing - but I sure wish public transportation was available even in rural areas!!

I live in a rural area where several smaller towns cluster together to form a larger urban area within the county. There are several tourist destinations, including a National Park, and a Ski Resort. We also have an international airport. The population of the county numbers more than 140,000, and nowhere in the county is more than about 1/2 hour drive away from anywhere else.

We have NO public transportation of any kind. No rail system, no public bus system of any kind except school buses, and, believe it or not, I can't even call a taxi if I need to go somewhere - there are NO taxi companies. The ONLY transportation options in the entire county are privately held by hotels/resorts, and one company operated by the Agency on Aging to help the elderly get to doctor's appointments, etc.

I have a seizure disorder and cannot drive, so am dependant on friends and family members to drive me places, and believe you me, it would be SO much easier if I could just "hop on a bus" to get down to the town center. But I haven't got that luxury, and neither do my kids.

 

[Coconut36]

Most everyplace but the most rural areas though, have public transportation. Most suburbs have public transit. It may not be like a school bus that stops right on the corner but buses in every suburb I know exist and go to the town center, to the mall, etc. You may have to walk a couple blocks over to get the bus and know the schedule it runs on but it exists.

Come visit the Phoenix area. Try sitting at the bus stop when it is 119 outside or walking "a few blocks" in that heat and then sitting at the bus stop for a half hour or more (and then you get a lovely ambulance ride to the hospital instead because you collapsed and suffered heat stroke). Yes it can be done..it doesn't mean it is the safest or best way to get around. It doesn't mean a 12 year old should be doing it alone either.

Yes we have buses..but Phoenix I believe is well know for it's crappy public transit and lack of resources. I had co workers come here from New York and Chicago that were appalled at how impossible it was to get around here without having a car. You can't hail a cab on the street, buses are a nightmare (it used to take a friend over an hour by bus to get to work..if it was by car it was less than 10 minutes..but the time between buses and the wacky routes added tons of time to his commute..never mind the mile or so he had to walk to get to the bus stop).

To get to the closest mall by bus it would take a minimum of 1 hour, 50 minutes (again..not including the walk to the bus stop). I could drive there in less than 15 minutes. What does that tell you about our public transit?

We have a light rail now..woohoo Phoenix. Of course it services only a tiny portion of the city. For me to get to the closest/first stop of the light rail it is over 20 minutes by car and assuming zero traffic. It would take over an hour and a half to get there by bus (and that does not take into account the fact that it would take a minimum of 30 minutes just to get to the bus stop) and it would take 4 hours and 11 minutes to get to the light rail by walking. I don't live way out in the boonies either or in a rural area. Yep..that is user friendly isn't it??

Public transit is not so great everywhere and one should never assume that what people in one city can do those in another can as well as that isn't true. My city is not commuting friend and definitely not strong in the public transit department.

Like a pp my kids will need to rely on me and other adults for transportation. There is no hopping the bus to the mall..you might get there eventually but by then they would need to turn around and head back home to get home on time. Waste of time/money since we don't have a great set up. There is no hoping on the light rail to get where you need to go either. Our city is just not walking/public transit friendly.

 

[knitster]

I've only read the OP, so forgive me if the topic has moved on as they tend to do here on the Dis.

I wouldn't have an issue in the world with my 14 year old daughter walking that distance with her friends - at night or otherwise. That's ludicrous! Yes, things happen every day, but people die in car wrecks every day, too, and I'm still driving my car.

I will say that it is my natural tendency to be WAY too overprotective of my kids, but I constantly struggle and push myself to give them the independence that they need.

 

[Colleen27]

Most everyplace but the most rural areas though, have public transportation. Most suburbs have public transit. It may not be like a school bus that stops right on the corner but buses in every suburb I know exist and go to the town center, to the mall, etc. You may have to walk a couple blocks over to get the bus and know the schedule it runs on but it exists.

That certainly isn't the case in the suburbs where I grew up. Bus service is really dismal, the routes awkward and time-consuming, and the reliability questionable at best. I could have taken a bus to get closer to school from my house but it would have taken longer than just walking the 2 miles to the school - it was something like catching a 6:15 bus to connect to a 7:05 bus (lots of time standing around waiting) to be dropped off near the school at 7:15 to start at 7:45. Getting to the nearest mall would take three different buses and well over an hour to go about 4 miles.

Suburbia is a concept designed around the car. Walk-ability and public transportation are mainly afterthoughts, good in some areas, bad in others.

 

[Colleen27]

I reeeealy think a lot of this is city/non.

I know there are coddlers who live in a city and non-coddlers who do not, absolutely.

In a general sense though, in my experience both as a kid and adult, city kids tend toward much greater independence and suburban kids tend toward much less.

Among kids I know now, and kids in my own family, the suburban/more rural ones get driven everyplace, aren't allowed to go places alone, have curfews fairly early - and their parents manage their schedules. Like the kids don't know when they have stuff to do, it's always 'mom/dad can I go X, when can I do Y on Tuesday?'

The city kids go places themselves, most all take public transportation to and from school themselves, kids go out and take cabs themselves, etc., and they keep their own schedules. That's a big one I've noticed. In the 'burbs, the kids ask the parents about the schedule, in the city, the parents ask the kids.

Never met a city kid couldn't order dinner by him or her self, or walk whereever or take the train downtown to hang out with friends, or etc., etc., but have seen plenty of suburban kids who aren't allowed to go to the mall by themselves, they have to be dropped off, call at X time, be picked up at Y time - IF they're allowed to wander around the mall, ONLY in a group, for a couple of hours.

I think it's odd, especially as the suburban type parents tend to largely think of the city as more dangerous, but the city parents tend to obviously not see it that way.

Again, I know this isn't a universal, it's my experience, though among many, many families.

I'd add a third category to that - small towns/country. Where we live "mayberry" rules are common - the kids go down to swim in the river, build forts in the woods, play baseball in the vacant lot, ride bikes all over creation, and come in when it gets dark. And kids aren't segregated by age the way we were in my suburban upbringing - on a typical day around here we've got a group of kids ranging in age from 13 down to 3 playing in our and two neighbors' front yards, older siblings look out for the younger ones and they all know there are a half-dozen trusted adults within earshot to deal with scraped knees and other situations requiring adult involvement.

It isn't quite the same sort of freedom city kids have - my kids would have no idea what to do with public transit (the buses and monorail at WDW are a highlight because those are things we don't have at home! ) - but it is a far cry from the constant supervision and parent-coordinated scheduling of suburbia.