Let's Debate Over-Protecting Our Kids

[Wishing on a star]

So true. People also seem to think that their financial situation, housing situation, etc. is the norm.

I SOOOO agree with this.

Everyone sees everything thru the lense of their own experience.

Not only are there differences in regional/cultural factors.

But, from my viewpoint, there are also differences in kids.

As the mom of a kid with some disabilities/issues, what may be necessary for my child might possibly seem horribly and terribly 'overprotective' to a casual observer.

I think that everybody should realize that there is a middle ground.
I think that everybody should realize that other's circumstances may be very different from their own.

OP: I have to agree. Not only does the concern about walking a few hundred yards seem kind of over-done... This other mother made several presumptuous comments about you and your child... Not Okay... If she was just so concerned about her child, then that is what she should have said, without any presumptuous and judgmental comment. The one poster who said to steer-clear, and do make any unnecessary comment with this woman was probably right! I know the kind who just have no filter when it comes to what they say, and how they share everything and just how they feel about it.

Yes, I do think that we now have a real issue with 'bubble-wrapped' kids.
Like the examples of teenagers who do not have the ability to get up and go in the kitchen and whip up anything that requires more than "Nuke for 60 seconds".

I have neighbors that I have mentioned here before... Just one house over across the street. The oldest son is my son's age... (one younger daughter) My son does not even know him because, even now that they are teenagers, this kid does not ever leave his yard or go anywhere without his parents....

My son does our yard work, and has made a lot of money doing yard work for neighbors.
It is not uncommon to see this mom out mowing while Junior is inside, perhaps playing video-games or whatever.
And, I can tell you that this is not because this kid has any disabilities or deficits of any kind.

 

[pacrosby]

Thanks for the luck!

Oh I have no doubt that teens take more risks and make more driving mistakes than adults in part due to the way our brains develop. But I'm not sure how that speaks against my point that it doesn't make sense (based on actual empirical evidence) to put a lot of restrictions on 16-17 year olds and then set them completely free at 18. After all, the first source you quote clearly says that the white matter doesn't begin to spread until age 20 and doesn't finish until age 25-30. If lack of white matter is the problem and 18-19 year olds also lack it, then doesn't it follow that 18-19 year olds will also be dangerous drivers?

So the information you provided (first source at least--didn't look at the second) seems to support my point--if 16/17 year old brains aren't mature enough for good driving then 18/19 year old brains aren't either.

Your source at the end points out that graduated licensing has prevented many crashes amongst 16 year olds. I don't dispute that at all. But that is not the whole picture. The study in the link I included to the NYTimes agrees with that finding, but also found that such restrictions led to an *increase* in deadly crashes amongst 18 year olds (whom everyone agrees--as far as I know--ought to have no restrictions):



So (if this study is a good one) it looks like my earlier point still stands. And note that the source you provided (the first one at least) makes the same mistake the study I am talking about has rectified--it looks *only* at changes in crashes amongst 16 year olds and assumes that lowering those crashes means lowering crashes over all. But this is simply not what is happening.

ETA: Of course, the restrictions do overall seem to save some lives/prevent some crashes--just not nearly as many as was assumed. I can see supporting any restrictions that will save any lives on the one hand. But then on the other hand, couldn't we save even more lives by making the driving age (for full licensing) 21? At some point we as a society say "look we know we could save X number of lives a year, but the burden on millions of people that this restriction would cause just is not worth it." That captures how I mostly feel about the increasingly burdensome graduated license requirements. I am not 100% against, but I am very skeptical that in the end the burden is actually worth it (especially when seen as just one more way that older children/teens are coddled more and more.)

Wow...you got into that a lot more than I was even hoping for

Suffice it to say that the average 16 yr old is more than inexperienced, he is immature (as far as brain development is concerned). And although an 18 yr olds' brain is still not completely developed, they are still 'more' developed than the average 16 yr old. Personally I didn't even need that study to figure that out. I was 16 once

Do with the information what you will. I wasn't making a legal case for raising the driving age, or anything else for that matter. I do think it's important information to keep in mind when raising teenagers, however. It's amazing (perhaps even scary) to see how many parents are in such a state of denial. Wishful thinking I suppose.

 

[smidgy]

I mean--who doesn't know how to use a microwave or do laundry or balance a checkbook at 18 years old?

going off topic here (isn't that what we do on the dis?) but I think a lot of 18 yr olds and 20, 30 somethings don't know how to balance a checkbook.. they don't use them.
they use ATMs, debit cards, pay bills online etc.

when we were first married, we laughed about my inlaws who still didn't have a checking account.. the cashed the paycheck, and paid bills with money orders, cahsier's checks, etc.

now our grown son's laugh at us for HAVING a checkbook. "who uses checks anymore, mom?" I don't even have a debit card.

 

[Coconut36]

The "or where it's extreme" was meant to cover a three-hour trip.

As much as I'm getting the 'you don't understand how other people live...'

Mass transit is often not faster or on par with a car, as I said. Plenty of kids travel 1-2 hours each way to school and it'd be significantly faster by car. That doesn't mean someone will get up to drive the kid, and again, how would the kid get home if they did?

Someone I went to h.s. with had to take a bus to a ferry to a bus or train to a train to get to school every day. It certainly would've been faster to drive.

Yes, if it's three hours, that's extreme. There are people in the thread saying it's 50 minutes or they'd have to change buses or other things that seem perfectly normal to me, and ridiculous to not consider transit over.

Sorry your comment wasn't clear to me as it seemed to imply (to me) "so what if it takes longer..big deal" so it wasn't clear to me what you viewed as "extreme" vs reasonable amount of extra travel time.

Also what is a reasonable commute in some places can vary as well. My Uncle in CA thinks nothing of a 2 hour commute to work each day..for Phoenix that is beyond unreasonable. I know people that find the trek from the "east valley" to the "west valley" beyond reasonable and have been given telecommuting exemptions by their employer because of how awful the drive is.

So for someone to say "it's an extra 1-2 hours" for their city that may beyond reason. It would be here. I would say a small minority of people would consider a 1-2 hour commute for work here and it would be considered a "hardship" to do so but I know for people on the East Coast that is nothing to them. So again it really varies in regards to what is extreme for one city/state vs another.

 

[smidgy]

ps. Badcramps (and btw, did you post on the thread about how you got your dis name? should be an interesting story)
your story of the preteen who still beleived in santa nd a few short years later was on birth control was a perfect example of what happens when kids are over protected, and then discover freedom suddenly.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

When my brother was a freshman, he was the only one of his roommates who knew how to do laundry. In my house, we did our own laundry when we turned 12. My brother had to teach all his roommates.

 

[pacrosby]

ps. Badcramps (and btw, did you post on the thread about how you got your dis name? should be an interesting story)
your story of the preteen who still beleived in santa nd a few short years later was on birth control was a perfect example of what happens when kids are over protected, and then discover freedom suddenly.

IDK....maybe there's more to the story than badcramps let on but based on what little information we have on this family you would actually feel confident saying that a child is 'overprotected' because she 'says' she still believes in Santa (whether she really did or not is anyone's guess) at the age of 11? Do you think if the Mom had made sure to set her straight at 11 regarding the fat man in the red suit, just in case she really did believe and wasn't just playing along for the fun of it, she would never have gotten into sex at such a young age?

How is that even related?

I think we need to get our facts straight about teenage sexual activity. If it were only that simple LOL

To me this just sounds like another one of those ever popular DIS leaps....."any 11 yr old kid who would believe in Santa is clearly immature and is the direct result of parents who obviously coddled and babied her to such an extent that she is unable to behave in an age appropriate manner."

Honestly, while I don't disagree that true overprotection can be quite harmful to a child in the long run, I start to go a tad bananas when we start to stretch to such lengths in an attempt to provide credence to the argument. There are enough legitimate examples out there. This one? Not so much.

And with all due respect to badcramps (who does seem like a nice, level headed guy) it's so much easier to parent other people's kids


ETA: perhaps this hit me because I remember a thread on the family board long ago where someone talked of their 10/11 who still 'claimed' to believe in Santa. So many nasty insulting comments were thrown about. So many assumptions. So many judgements. Made me crazy then. I guess the thought of it still makes me crazy now. Sorry.
.

 

[smidgy]

One final one--I have a relative who had a child who still believed in Santa at age 11/12. I guess they figured "why force her to grow up before she's ready?" Well now that kid is 15 and is going on birth control pills to prevent pregnancy. And I am thinking--what happened to the 5 stages of childhood and adolescence between "I still believe a completely internally inconsistent story about a magic fat man who brings me presents" and "I'm ready to have sex"?

IDK....a kid is 'overprotected' because she 'says' she still believes in Santa (whether she really did or not is anyone's guess) at the age of 11? Do you think if the Mom had made sure to set her straight at 11 regarding the fat man in the red suit, just in case she really did believe, she would never have gotten into sex at such a young age?

How is that even related?

I don't disagree that true overprotection can be quite harmful to a child in the long run but I start to go bananas when we start to stretch to such lengths to provide credence to the argument.

And with all due respect to badcramps (who does seem like a nice, level headed guy) it's so much easier to parent other people's kids
.

Kind of reminds me of the argument that all those older kids in strollers at WDW are the reason why we have a chilidhood obesity epidemic in this country

I think badcramps point was the there are supposed to be "stages" of maturity, increments, so to speak.
too often stages are totally skipped. and kids go from totally protected to suddenly totally on their own.

the santa example was just that, one example of extremism in maturity level in just a few short years. no one said it was a cause and effect relationship (ie, that "because" she believed in santa, she had early sex )


I can't beleive no one liked my Nemo quote!!!!!
"let's see how squirt does solo"

 

[disykat]

ps. Badcramps (and btw, did you post on the thread about how you got your dis name? should be an interesting story)
your story of the preteen who still beleived in santa nd a few short years later was on birth control was a perfect example of what happens when kids are over protected, and then discover freedom suddenly.

I agree.

 

[Aisling]

I was an overprotective mom, still am and my youngest is 19. He's driving upstate for the weekend with friends and I'm like "call me when you get there, make sure you bring warm clothes it's cold up there, remember you're not drinking age and you could get into trouble," etc. I can't help it, it's how I am and my kids accept it. I used to follow the school bus when they went on field trips to make sure they got there safely. Yeah, I'm neurotic, but my kids have learned to be independent in spite of me.

 

[pacrosby]

I think badcramps point was the there are supposed to be "stages" of maturity, increments, so to speak.
too often stages are totally skipped. and kids go from totally protected to suddenly totally on their own.

the santa example was just that, one example of extremism in maturity level in just a few short years. no one said it was a cause and effect relationship (ie, that "because" she believed in santa, she had early sex )


I can't beleive no one liked my Nemo quote!!!!!
"let's see how squirt does solo"

No , I do get that that was what he was trying to say, really I do. I just happen to think this was a very poor example based on assumptions not in evidence. Simply saying that you believe in Santa (even at 11) does not make you immature nor does allowing a child to say it make the parents overprotective. And having early sex? Well we all know that the potential reasons for that are simply too numerous to mention. Is it ironic that she went from Santa to sex in a few short years? Sure. Indicative of what happens when parents are overprotective for too long and then suddenly let go? I don't see the connection (at least not as it's been described).

(and I edited my post above to include the reason why I probably had a knee jerk reaction to that example)


btw: I liked your Nemo quote (just for the record )

 

[lisateaches]

I am a Girl Scout leader and I recently had to tell some of the mothers not to clean up after their daughters on a camping trip. They said they were tired.Then the girls played and ran around for three hours straight. My kid was the only one who knew how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich without wearing it! FYI: They are in third grade. Last Friday, my daughter made chocolate chip cookies, almost completely by herself. A little afraid to turn on the mixer by herself and to put them in the oven by herself. Hopefully next time she will.

 

[smidgy]

thanks!!!

 

[badblackpug]

I was an overprotective mom, still am and my youngest is 19. He's driving upstate for the weekend with friends and I'm like "call me when you get there, make sure you bring warm clothes it's cold up there, remember you're not drinking age and you could get into trouble," etc. I can't help it, it's how I am and my kids accept it. I used to follow the school bus when they went on field trips to make sure they got there safely. Yeah, I'm neurotic, but my kids have learned to be independent in spite of me.

Seriously? OMG! My kids would die 4 deaths of embarrassment if I was ever caught following the bus.

I was talking about this with my mother and she reminded me of a friend I had growing up.

My friend's mother was way overprotective. She was always the room mother. Always the chaperon. There was never an activity that she didn't chaperon. She was never allowed to play at or sleep over anyone's house. We were in 8th grade before she went on a single school trip that her mother didn't chaperon. (and that is only because there were no parent chaperons) She had an after school babysitter until 8th grade. She chaperoned every dance in high school.

I am sure her mother had the best of intentions, but it backfired. As soon as my friend went away to college she became drunk with freedom. She partied, drank, did drugs and failed out her 1st semester in college. Then she, literally, moved to the opposite coast of the country to get away from her mother.

My mother said if you don't give kids some independence not only does it stunt their emotional growth but it also sends the message to them that they aren't trustworthy or capable.

 

[Tiger926]

Seriously? OMG! My kids would die 4 deaths of embarrassment if I was ever caught following the bus.

I was talking about this with my mother and she reminded me of a friend I had growing up.

My friend's mother was way overprotective. She was always the room mother. Always the chaperon. There was never an activity that she didn't chaperon. She was never allowed to play at or sleep over anyone's house. We were in 8th grade before she went on a single school trip that her mother didn't chaperon. (and that is only because there were no parent chaperons) She had an after school babysitter until 8th grade. She chaperoned every dance in high school.

I am sure her mother had the best of intentions, but it backfired. As soon as my friend went away to college she became drunk with freedom. She partied, drank, did drugs and failed out her 1st semester in college. Then she, literally, moved to the opposite coast of the country to get away from her mother.

My mother said if you don't give kids some independence not only does it stunt their emotional growth but it also sends the message to them that they aren't trustworthy or capable.

I agree with your mom, but I totally disagree that all kids will go crazy if restricted.

I was very restricted, as my dad had anxiety and worry, and I am still the same level-headed, mature and responsible person now at my age, as when I was 10 years old.

It depends upon the person - I never went crazy at all, and freedom was literally dumped in my lap. Why? Because I was mature and responsible from a young age. You need to know your kids and how teen brains work. Some will go crazy, and some won't, but there are so many other factors that come into play.

Perhaps most or many teens will go crazy and this might backfire, but I am here to assure you that there are many of us who do not.

That is an extreme genereralization. Will some kids run off and get pregnant after they were not allowed to date until an older age? Sure. Will some kids crack up the car? Sure. Will some kids get way too drunk and pass out in college? Sure.

Not sure how much of that can be related to an absence of freedom or restrictions while growing up, as it is also related to lack of good judgment and lack of self-control. Those two things are part of gaining maturity, but they are not all of it.

Many adults I see have lack of good judgment and very little self-control, and yet some of them are twice my age, and so I don't think they were driven to school, nor to the mall, as those didn't exist back then.

There is lots going on in this thread that is so interesting. What is coddling to one, is not to another. And honestly, driving kids to school is not a big deal at all. To say that driving kids to school is going to make them get pregnant or become non-productive adults is hilarious, as I know some kids who are driven, and they are doing missionary work in Africa, student body president and going to university a year earlier due to seriously high grades and cognitive levels.

There is so much more than goes on with kids that determines their levels of maturity and response to their world than driving to school or having "overprotective" parents, IMHO. Will it have an effect on how kids respond and grow up? Yes, but there is more at play here than just having a mom who follows the school bus...

Tiger

 

[mhsjax]

ps. Badcramps (and btw, did you post on the thread about how you got your dis name? should be an interesting story)
your story of the preteen who still beleived in santa nd a few short years later was on birth control was a perfect example of what happens when kids are over protected, and then discover freedom suddenly.

Sorry, but a pre teen who believes in Santa, has nothing to do with that same pre teen getting pregnant. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Maybe this is why teens, cant' function is todays society, parents are looking for any excuse as to why these teen screw up.

It has to do with hormones, not a man n a Red suit, not being over protected. Sorry but I know too many kids that are somewhat sheltered even ver sheltered that didn't get pregnant at an early age. THis was a child that would have gotten pregnant anyway. EVen if she had never believed in Santa. BAD example, and the reason why so many of the opinions here on the Dis are just plain out there and really just over the top.

 

[java]

I just had a similar discussion about soccer with a mom this weekend. Our league is trying out 4 on 4 playing- vs. full teams. So that 2 games of one team will be going on at the same time- So that ALL The kids get to play as opposed to having to sub in and out.

When asked why they went to this I replied because we are raising a generation of snowflakes. People are afraid to let their kids lose. They want little susie to score a goal vs. actually learning to play soccer. And the other mother was horrified. She thought is was a wonderful idea, her daughter got to play the entire time. And wasn't that more important?

Nope. Not to me.

In life there are winners and losers. We all don't feel special every day. Life has disappointments. Learning how to deal with them as a child is how you will succeed as an adult.

I probably err on the side of overprotecting generally. But my 14 year old would have been allowed to do exactly what you let your daughter do.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

I've chaperoned all my kids class trips and they are happy with that. I don't see where that makes them less independent, they look forward to spending a school day event with me.

I've also been class mom every year for at least one of them until this year. I toss my name in the hat, this year dd12 doesn't have "class moms" and there were 8 people in dd10's class, they decided to let "everyone" that wanted to be a class mom be one. I left them to it .

I prefer to be class mom on my own (which has happened a couple times, awesome!) but certainly not more than three moms (or dads, tho I've never had a class dad in my group), gets too convoluted. I'll just sit by and wait till they need something and volunteer to help with it.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yeah, I'm neurotic, but my kids have learned to be independent in spite of me.

OMG!!! LOVE this one!

Hey - Tag Fairy!!!!!

 

[pacrosby]

I agree with your mom, but I totally disagree that all kids will go crazy if restricted.

I was very restricted, as my dad had anxiety and worry, and I am still the same level-headed, mature and responsible person now at my age, as when I was 10 years old.

It depends upon the person - I never went crazy at all, and freedom was literally dumped in my lap. Why? Because I was mature and responsible from a young age. You need to know your kids and how teen brains work. Some will go crazy, and some won't, but there are so many other factors that come into play.

Perhaps most or many teens will go crazy and this might backfire, but I am here to assure you that there are many of us who do not.

That is an extreme genereralization. Will some kids run off and get pregnant after they were not allowed to date until an older age? Sure. Will some kids crack up the car? Sure. Will some kids get way too drunk and pass out in college? Sure.

Not sure how much of that can be related to an absence of freedom or restrictions while growing up, as it is also related to lack of good judgment and lack of self-control. Those two things are part of gaining maturity, but they are not all of it.

Many adults I see have lack of good judgment and very little self-control, and yet some of them are twice my age, and so I don't think they were driven to school, nor to the mall, as those didn't exist back then.

There is lots going on in this thread that is so interesting. What is coddling to one, is not to another. And honestly, driving kids to school is not a big deal at all. To say that driving kids to school is going to make them get pregnant or become non-productive adults is hilarious, as I know some kids who are driven, and they are doing missionary work in Africa, student body president and going to university a year earlier due to seriously high grades and cognitive levels.

There is so much more than goes on with kids that determines their levels of maturity and response to their world than driving to school or having "overprotective" parents, IMHO. Will it have an effect on how kids respond and grow up? Yes, but there is more at play here than just having a mom who follows the school bus...

Tiger

Thank you for offering that voice of reason.

It is not uncommon for folks to use that argument....overprotect them now (whatever that means) and they will go wild as soon as they are able. But I just happen to be an example of just the opposite. My parents had rules but they trusted me....perhaps alittle too much. I was a good student, I had 'nice' friends, I didn't get into a trouble....why wouldn't they trust me? Of course on weekends we'd climb on top of a friends car and hang onto the roof rack while they sped down the street (that, at 16/17). We'd skip school and forge parent excuses for the absence (16/17/18). We'd drink and smoke pot whenever we could get away with it (16/17/18). And then we went to college....................and we just turned it up a notch.

My friend had one of the most lenient households. She was a good student too. Her parents trusted her. She had lots of boyfriends in high school. "Nice boys". She ended up pregnant her first year in college.

Dating, on the other hand, was the one area where my Dad was quite strict and yet somehow I managed to get to college as pure as the driven snow. And my first boyfriend? Ended up being my first true love, and a relationship that lasted over 4 years.

As far as driving, I didn't get my license until 18 and never have had anything more than a fender bender. My brother got his at 16 and totaled 4 cars by his 20th birthday. So much for getting better with experience LOL

We all have stories. None of them prove anything really. There is no magic recipe.