Let's Debate Over-Protecting Our Kids

[badblackpug]

Okay,

So I was having a discussion about the whole misconception around stay at home moms and working moms, but the discussion has evolved past that. So I will relate my story:

I have a 14 year old daughter, a freshman in high school. We live 5 houses away from the junior high (I counted them) you can literally see the gym door of the junior high from my front door. Over the summer the school sponsored a pep rally thing for the incoming freshman, to kind of welcome them to high school. It was held, on a Friday in the junior high gym from 6-8pm. My daughter went with her BFF. The plan was for them to go to the rally then come spend the night at our house. Strangely enough someone dropped them off after the rally. My daughter told me it was "Suzy's" mom. ummm... okay 5 houses...it's her gas. I later ran into Suzy's mom who made this comment to me, "I drove older daughter and BFF home from the rally. I know you work, so you probably weren't home, I'm sure you don't want your daughter walking around at night, and I know that BFF's mom wouldn't. I know you are busy, so let me know when the girls need a ride." Now, I took this as a not so subtle jab that because I work I neglect my kids, but when I posed this to someone else the answer I got was, "Oh she was just worried. It only takes a minute for something to happen, really 14 year olds should not be out at night alone and unsupervised." Ummm... I did mention there are 5 houses between my house and the school. It's a distance of about 50-75 yards.

So that started a discussion about how children are more babied now days. Around here, no kids walk to school, at any age, regardless of how short the walk is, or how nice the weather is. At the 1st sign of trouble the parent is at the school defending them "not my little Ralphie!" even if the evidence was indisputable that Ralphie did it. My friends 10 year old son, a month older than mine, has no jobs in the home. Another's 10 year old daughter says "My job is school and karate." On the DIS here I have even heard parents say they don't make their children do chores at home "because their activities take up too much time." ...don't even get me started on strollers in WDW for big kids.... head on over to the family board for that! I have a co-worker who told me how she follwed her 11 and 12 year olds in the car when they wanted to ride their bikes 3 blocks, in a very upscale suburban neighborhood with no major streets.

The thing is we hear so often about how kids "grow up so fast" but it seems to me that there has been a lot of backlash against this. It's a really strange dichotomy to me. I see a lot of kids who have parents who hover and try to keep them in a bubble, but also, strangely, have little rules, structure, or consequences for their kids. (the aforementioned co-worker with the 11 and 12 year old... her kids stole her credit card and charged something online, she thought an appropriate consequence was 1 day without playstation)

I think kids need to start with baby steps that help teach them independence and responsibility. If my 3 year old leaves her Barbie on the floor and the dog chews her head off (that happened LOL) then it's "Oh well, you should have picked up your toy." If my 14 year old doesn't do her math homework and gets a "D" (also happened) then it's her "D" and she will walk her very hot butt to summer school at 8am to improve the grade. I will not go to the teacher and beg her for make-up work.

Thoughts? Experiences?

 

[cbg1027]

As for the comment from the mom who drove your daughter home, it's impossible for any of us to know what she meant by the comment because that's something you would need to see the body language and hear the voice in order to get an idea if she was insulting you on the sly.

But since I can't judge, I'd give her the benefit of the doubt and just assume she's more over-protective of her kids than you are and that she was just trying to do a nice thing.

I totally agree that kids are being way too coddled these days. Kids are growing up with this sense of over-entitlement and expect to get everything for doing hardly anything.

And it seems like most parents are all too accommodating. Something that strikes me as absurd is the treatment of picky eaters. Why cater to it? It's just enforcing the habit.

When I was young, my mother cooked dinner. If I didn't like it, too bad. Eat it or go hungry.

I was a live-in nanny for a family in France with 3 and 4 year old daughters and they worked the same way. The mother or I cooked a dinner with a protein, grain, and veggie. The kids had to eat some of each item in order to get dessert (fruit and yogurt). If they didn't like something, then too bad, no dessert. And we didn't make special kids food either. I mean, we weren't expecting the kids to eat steak tartare yet, but we had a normal 'adult' food meal and that's what the kids were expected to eat as well.

The younger one was very stubborn and would sometime decide she didn't like stuff just to be difficult. So sometimes she went to bed without eating dinner. But you know what? She's happy, healthy, thriving, and eats almost anything now at age 9.

 

[disykat]

I pretty much agree with you. As for the walking at night, I might tell my dd to text me when she was leaving and I'd watch for her, but I definitely agree driving them 5 houses was ridiculous! That's no farther than a reasonable parking spot at a busy school activity might be.

 

[YodaGirl]

I think that I'm on the over-protective side, but even I wouldn't have a problem with a 14 year old walking 5 houses down.

I don't think that the mom really meant it as an insult, and I think that her heart was in the right place, but I think it's a bit much.

Our school system implemented a policy last year that required all students living within a mile of school to walk in order to save money on busing. There was a fairly big up roar, especially when parents brought up sex offenders living in the area.

Would I want my kindergartener to walk a mile to school? Not so much. My ten year old? Maybe (hey, I said I was on the over-protective side). My high school-er? I don't see the problem.

Some of the people causing the ruckus were stay at home parents. I would figure if you stay home and you have that much of a problem with it, that you could either walk (let's face it - we could all use more exercise) or drive your child to school. Problem solved.

 

[badblackpug]

To clarify... we do not have buses unless you are special needs. Our town is only a mile square with it's own school system. We have 3 elementary schools, a jr. high, and a high school. The vast majority of parents drive their kids to school regardless of distance or weather. ...and this is all ages, not just elementary.

A little description of my street. There are only houses on 1 side of the street. The school is on the opposite side. There are 5 houses between mine and the school. Honestly, by the time we got out on the street in the car with all the traffic dropping kids off, my daughter could have walked there and found a seat... lol. It is a very safe neighborhood. I think a 14 year old is more than mature enough to walk 5 houses.

As for the food thing, we are the same way. You get what is cooked. I would never make a child eat something they truly hate, but if you are just refusing to eat because you are holding out for nuggets or pizza you are going to be very hungry come breakfast time. On an aside with beef taretare I have a nice pic of my then 2 year old sitting on my lap at Yachtman's steak house eating my taretare.

ETA: as I am thinking about it, it almost seems that this coddling thing has become a form of bragging. Almost like saying "I'm a better or maybe more interested parent because I baby or cater to my kids." It's like "I care more." because I drive my kids everywhere, or I do their school projects, or I hover over them regardless of what they do. Really, just read some of the "Does My 8 Year Old Need A Stroller?" Threads on the family board. You would think that those of us who "make" our kids walk are forcing them on the Bataan death march.....

 

[NHdisneylover]

As far as your particular situation goes, I wonder if the other mom was NOT trying to slam you working at all, but was using that as a way to help you "save face" so she could offer to drive, and have a reason you were not able to drive which was not that you did not feel the kids needed a ride (since she obviously felt they did). Oh, and my kid would have walked home--it seems silly to me to drive that for that too

As to the larger issues, I agree that as Americans we have a weird dichotomy going on now where we push kids to grow up in ways I think are unhealthy (sexualizing attitudes and clothing, pushing them to give up toys at younger and younger ages, etc) while at the same time holding them back from the responsibilities and privileges they should be gaining as they grow.

Our family straddles two cultures. We are Americans living in Germany. My husband works for a German company and my children attend German schools. We still have contact with many Americans (mostly here through the military) who are living more "American" lifestyles (going to DoD schools, etc) through Girl Scouts and then branching off from there into other activities with the American community as well. So, we really see some difference in how the two cultures are treating children and teens these days.

My daughter notices even little things like, one day both her class and her scout troop were needing people to bring in food items for fundraisers. At school the kids said "I will make xyz" and at scouts they said "my mom can make xyz" subtle--but a HUGE indicator to me of what we are teaching our kids and expecting of them (note this was 7-9 graders last year). Essentially, I felt like OVERALL the culture was telling the American teens they were capable and the American teens they were not (even of something simple like baking cookies).

There are lots of more obvious things too. "Can you imagine the uproar in the US if . . ." is a standard line at our house
here are a few examples from the last 6 months or so (note, things may be different in the elementary schools which are grades 1-4, my youngest was in 5th grade when we moved here):
-schools let the kids leave early when teachers were sick--no subs (true of grade 5 and up, and no they do not call the parents)
-no paperwork was sent home about field trips, you only know about it because your child tells you they need money for it r special clothes or whatnot
-kids are released directly from the field trip location, or maybe the main train station, but not taken back to school after a field trip
-the school needs something from the store so they send a student over to buy it
-kids all carry their own meds on them and no one thinks a thing of it
-the teacher asks students to bring their pocket knives to school so they can whittle
-traditional end of the year sleep overs at school have one male chaperon who sleeps several rooms away from the kids (8th and 9th grade)
-the only reason I know when they cover sex ed or what they did is that my kid tells me. Otherwise, it is just part of the curriculum and no fuss is made about it with the kids or the parents

There is plenty more, but those are sticking in my head right now. Personally, I really love my kids getting the chance to be independent and spread their wings. I think, like you OP, that learning bit by bit like this is how they grow best.

 

[kmedina]

I agree that I would have needed to see and hear the situation to have an opinion. Even then, it is never foolproof. People sometimes come off in a way that was different than their intention. There are two sides to every story. Some parents are very overprotective and do not understand the ones who are not and vice versa. My kids are only 4 and 3mos, so I do not know what I will do yet. While I want them to be independent with some things, I know I will most likely be overprotective with other things.

When I was growing up, I started walking home in the second grade (with my sister who was in the fourth grade. By the time I was in fourth grade, I was on my own. We lived five houses away from the grassy area and just a little farther from the front gates. If it was raining, my Dad picked me up. My middle school was a bit farther, but I still walked it. That said, my Dad or someone else always picked me up at night through high school. I remember two times that he forgot. Everything turned out okay though.

He did only cook one meal that we either ate or went without too. We hardly ever had dessert even if we cleaned our plates, so that was never a factor. My DS is allergic to so many things. Food allergies have really changed the game when it comes to cooking a separate meal. Yes, I do prepare special meals for him. I like eggs, wheat, peanut butter, bananas and many things he cannot eat.

Every day we go out, I drive by a memorial for a little girl (about 15 or so based on the pictures) who was killed in our neighborhood. There are no sidewalks and narrow streets (which I think is stupid). DS goes to a preschool that is about a 15 minute drive from our house (which he will go to for elementary as well). It is private, so there is no bus system. I will continue to drive him to and from all school events. Even if he went to school in our neighborhood, I would still drive him. The schools being so far from our house make the walk even more dangerous.

I do not think it makes you bad or wrong to want your daughter to have more independence. She is your daughter, so you get to decide what you want to do. Different parenting styles do not make one Mom better than the other. As long as parents are not neglecting or abusing their kids, they should do what they want with them.

She may think she is helping you out by giving your daughter a ride, thinking ethnocentrically. As long as it does not bother you, I do not see the harm in letting her give rides to your daughtre (even if it is only five houses away).

 

[NHdisneylover]

To clarify... we do not have buses unless you are special needs. Our town is only a mile square with it's own school system. We have 3 elementary schools, a jr. high, and a high school. The vast majority of parents drive their kids to school regardless of distance or weather. ...and this is all ages, not just elementary.

A little description of my street. There are only houses on 1 side of the street. The school is on the opposite side. There are 5 houses between mine and the school. Honestly, by the time we got out on the street in the car with all the traffic dropping kids off, my daughter could have walked there and found a seat... lol. It is a very safe neighborhood. I think a 14 year old is more than mature enough to walk 5 houses.

As for the food thing, we are the same way. You get what is cooked. I would never make a child eat something they truly hate, but if you are just refusing to eat because you are holding out for nuggets or pizza you are going to be very hungry come breakfast time. On an aside with beef taretare I have a nice pic of my then 2 year old sitting on my lap at Yachtman's steak house eating my taretare.

ETA: as I am thinking about it, it almost seems that this coddling thing has become a form of bragging. Almost like saying "I'm a better or maybe more interested parent because I baby or cater to my kids." It's like "I care more." because I drive my kids everywhere, or I do their school projects, or I hover over them regardless of what they do. Really, just read some of the "Does My 8 Year Old Need A Stroller?" Threads on the family board. You would think that those of us who "make" our kids walk are forcing them on the Bataan death march.....

I absolutely think this is a big piece of it. I also think fear (spurred by large amounts of coverage of rare occurrences and an a distorted sense of the true safety issues) is a piece. Also, people nearly always jump to blaming the parents for doings "something" wrong now whenever any tragedy with a child occurs. There is virtually never just sympathy and horror at the tragedy itself. Parents do not want to be the "reason" something bad happens to their child--so they bubble wrap the child instead.

 

[smidgy]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that anyone would drive a 14 year old 5 houses away... for any reason (ok, maybe if their leg was in a cast.) .. let alone, try to make someone feel guilty for not doing so.

most 14 year olds are babysitters. in charge of younger children. I was 12 years old and taking 3 buses, in Chicago, to the beach on Lake Michigan.

a 14 year old can't safely walk 5 houses down to school, and then 4 years later, will miraculously be able to handle herself away at college?

OP, you are correct. in everything you said. you are a good mom.

 

[badblackpug]

I drive my 3 year old back and forth from pre-school. That is age appropriate. In my district K and 1st graders either have to have someone drop them off and pick them up (ie be at the school, not, necessarily, drive) or have an older neighbor or sibling with whom they walk. Again, I think, age appropriate.

Yes, possibly my example wasn't good about illustrating the working mom thing, but I thought it was very interesting about illustrating the over protective aspect.

People complain about the lack of responsibility and work ethic of young people today, but I think it is obvious where it came from. I have friends who think that some of the things I let my kids do is crazy, like letting the 14 and 10 year old go off and ride Space Mountain while I sit with the little kids at a parade, but then act like I'm crazy strict when I impose a punishment that they think is too harsh. Example: My older daughter went through a period in 5th grade where getting her to do any work, home or classwork, was like pulling teeth. She has a project due where she had to write a newspaper article about something. The deadline came and she didn't do the project so she very quickly copied (plagiarized) one and handed it in. She got a zero for the work (because she plagiarized it form the local newspaper and the teacher caught it in about 30 seconds) and her punishment was she was not allowed to attend the class pool party. I had a friend tell me that that was too strict, that she already got a zero. I explained to her, and my daughter, that she got a zero because she didn't do the work, she lost the privilege to go to the party because she lied when she handed in the work and said it was hers.

I have relatives who are teachers who have told me that parents have made teaching unbearable. Everyone is so concerned about hurting little Johnny or Suzy's feelings that they can't really have any discipline or control in the classroom.

 

[smidgy]

wow! I can't tell you how much I (as a grandma) respect you, OP.

of course a 10 and 14 year old can go to space mt. alone.
and your consequences for the failed (and lied about) project were good.

our friends used to tell us what great kids we had. they would also tell us how we were too strict!

however, we were actually very lenient. we gave them plenty room on their "leash". and told them the rules. and let them experience consequences when they broke the rules. thus.. the learning. and growing, maturing.

what is the goal of parenting? producing mature,moral, independant adults. adults who can make their own decisions, which only comes from practice..


has NO one seen "finding Nemo", and listened to Crush? "let's see what Squirt does, flying solo!"

 

[VulcanGirl]

I am NHdisneylover's daughter and as she pointed out we really see some major differences in cultures. I am 14 years old and an American living in Germany. I attend a German school, my father works for a German company, and the majority of what we do is in the German community, however, we do have contact with Americans mainly through my Girl Scout troop. It amazes me some of the cultural differences I see and the different life skills that American and German children of the same age possess.

Most German children go to and from school, most often on one or two trams, completely on their own by the age of 8. My brother and I spend an hour and a half each way going to and from school. We bike to the train station, take the train to the next city over, take the tram to school and at the end of day do it in reverse to get home. This is completely normal for kids who live in another city than their school as we do. Most of the Americans here get driven to school by parents regardless of age.

German children gain cooking skills regularly as they grow older. By 8 they can make most basic things on their own. For example grilled cheese, eggs, pasta, rice, cookies, pancakes, cupcakes, etc. As they grow older they gain yet more skills. On the other hand last year I went on a trip with my Girl Scout troop (then 7th through 9th grade). We did all the cooking ourselves. I was absolutely amazed at the lack of cooking knowledge my troop possessed. My group made tacos, Mexican rice, and tres leches cake. I found myself regularly informing girls things like vegetable have to be washed before you slice them and yes it is possible to make cake without cake mix. I was simply dumbfounded at how little they knew about cooking.

These are only a couple examples, however, there are truly countless examples of how over protected and lacking in skills Americans are compared to Germans and I believe the rest of the world and I fear for when this generation of children who simply cannot take care of themselves end up having to. Because contrary to it seems many Americans beliefs children do not magically gain the skills need to take care of themselves the day they turn 18. Those skills are meant to be learned over time.

 

[kmedina]

Nice post Marika.

 

[VulcanGirl]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that anyone would drive a 14 year old 5 houses away... for any reason (ok, maybe if their leg was in a cast.) .. let alone, try to make someone feel guilty for not doing so.

most 14 year olds are babysitters. in charge of younger children. I was 12 years old and taking 3 buses, in Chicago, to the beach on Lake Michigan.

a 14 year old can't safely walk 5 houses down to school, and then 4 years later, will miraculously be able to handle herself away at college?

OP, you are correct. in everything you said. you are a good mom.

Absolutely accurate. I love the example about 14 year olds being babysitters. It is so true. I babysit for an American family that lives less than ten minutes from my house. The way there is all on sidewalks, well lit, and through a safe neighborhood. I always walk there and back on my own. The family I babysit for always offer me a ride home several times. Saying 'Am I sure I will be alright walking around after dark'. It is nice of them to offer and I know that they have good intentions, however, I always wonder that they trust me to watch their children and know what to do in an emergency, however, not to walk a very easy and safe walk back home.

 

[VulcanGirl]

Nice post Marika.

Thank you.

 

[hereyago]

You know I don't know when it all started with the over protective stuff. I was not brought up like that.

My DD13 not brought up like that. One of her former friends, her mom was over protective and it may have been to the mom's mom not being protective really at all so maybe to compensate? for example: DD and the friends bus stop about the same about 5 houses away. if you go out in the drive way you can see them.

She would have her DD call her when she got on the bus to let her know she was ok. DId I mention that as of last year she was still having her do this? And the mom was still at home she could have just looked down the street. I'm surprised she didn't walk to the bus stop with her.

Cut the dang cord. How will our kids learn independence if we don't give them some room?

 

[JoShan1719]

Ok, at 14 I was taking the city bus to the mall which was (pause while I literally google map search for accuracy...) 4.8 miles one way all by myself, or with friends (guy friends included). I'm only 24, so that wasn't too long ago. My mother didn't baby me. She fully believed in giving me certain freedoms as I got older, trusting me to make good decisions and be safe. She told me, "One day you'll be an adult and have to make your own decisions. If I always make them for you you'll never learn."

I asked to go to a party once and she was nervous, but she let me go. My curfew was 1 AM and if I wanted to stay later I had to call and check with her. When I got to the party there was a bunch of drinking and some kind of drug stuff going on, so I didn't stay. I hung out with a friend out in the parking lot of the apartment complex instead. When I got home my mom was knocked out, o I could have just stayed out later, but chose not to. My mom never had trust issues with me. My stepmother, on the other hand, had major trust issues with me for no reason. She never gave me the opportunity to prove myself to her, she was under the assumption that all teenagers couldn't be trusted because her son would throw parties when she went out of town, and he smoked pot and cigarettes, got into trouble.

Point is, I feel like you have to give age-appropriate liberties to kids, give them opportunities to make decisions and face the consequences of those decisions. Otherwise those little kids turn into big adults who have no clue how to make decisions on their own.

 

[kmedina]

Thank you.

You're welcome.

 

[Tiger926]

Not sure what the mother meant by that comment either?

In regards to it being nighttime...that is a different set of circumstances for many parents (myself included), as it depends upon traffic, age of kids, past experiences and fears of strangers, IMHO. Some parents let kids do all kinds of things at night, and some don't, so for us, it would depend upon many factors.

In regards to coddling or being overprotective, sure many parents are. But, in all fairness, many adults I know are coddled and self-entitled, and that's where it comes from. Why would kids be any different, when their parents/guardians are the same way?

We are what may be considered overprotective in some areas, and not in others. I am not an anxious person, so I don't stress about strangers snatching my kids, as I know the probability of that is minute. I do worry about idiotic adults who don't pay any mind to my kids when driving or playing at the playground, and this is why we have some of the rules we have.

I am a parent who believes that my kids are guilty 100% of the time, and when you think this way, it is so much easier to parent. I believe and know that my kids are capable of pretty much anything, just as most adults are, and I go from there. I remain neutral in order to get a fair answer and sort out the problem.

We live in an entitled world as far as I'm concerned as adults are quite babyish in their responses and behaviours. It may now be seeping into children, but that being said, it is none of my business how someone else raises their kids, unless there is a safety issue to my kids, or they are being abused (I have a duty to report as a teacher). If parents feel they need to protect their kids in a certain way, for safety reasons, it's not my business.

Who determines what coddling truly is? For some it's not walking to school, not letting kids out past dark, or having parents solve all problems for their kids.

If by coddling we mean parents who solve all of their kids problems, as well as assume that their kids aren't guilty, then I will agree. As a teacher, I can give you lots of these stories...

Tiger

 

[indimom]

I think we all do what makes us comfortable.

Obviously, seeing your daughter walking home, alone, in the dark made her uncomfortable. And her reasons for that are her own. Maybe she had a bad experience at one time? Maybe she watches too much news? Maybe she was raised in a bad area? Maybe her parents were over-protective and was trained into this mindset?

Was the mother trying to make you feel guilty? It's possible, but I wouldn't even let it cross your radar. It really doesn't matter WHAT her opinion was in the scheme of things. You do what makes you comfortable.