I was not saying that the Republicans were without fault, but I also won't sit by and see it said that it was all their fault either. McCain's vote wasn't the "deciding" vote, everyone votes and there is a result, to blame it all on McCain is disingenuous at best. That is my one and only point. There is plenty of blame to go around and pointing fingers at the "evil republicans" doesn't help your cause.
Right now you have your dream team, Democratic President and Democratic Congress. When you get to the mid term elections and they still haven't moved on those issues that your passionate about, what are you going to do then exactly?
Dream team? Who said any such thing?
You obviously haven't seen where I land on the political compass test. No one who runs as a democrat could ever be considered my "dream team." (And come on--Obama won't even come out and admit that he is for same-sex marriage. Though I'd pretty much bet everything I own that that is what he believes and he's just covering it up and being evasive for political reasons.)
I like Obama. I believe he will do a lot of good (if he does even half of what he said he'd do.) But he's still a politician of course. I know that he'd sell out his own daughter in two seconds if he had to. GLBT rights will certainly be tossed aside if they get politically inconvenient to the democrats. But they already ARE inconvenient to the republicans.
I'm sorry but the voting records and campaigns just speak for themselves on that issue. (I'll agree that talking about "deciding votes" is a weird way of thinking about things. But it remains absolutely 100% true that if John McCain had voted differently millions of gay people would have had protection for being fired/not hired simply because they are gay for a few years now. I pick him out specifically only because he was the only Republican running against Obama. As I said, everyone else who voted against EDNA is equally to blame. But none of them won a major party's nomination to run for president.) As I said, it's not that I think all Democrats love gays and all Republicans hate them. No doubt there are Democratic politicians who are horribly homophobic who are supporting gay rights because it gets them votes. And no doubt there are Republicans who personally feel totally okay with gay marriage, but campaign against it and other rights for gays because it is politically necessary for them to do so.
What will I do in 2 years if EDNA hasn't passed? Honestly I'd be absolutely shocked if that were to occur (despite 88% opposition from Republicans, a fact I see you did not respond to in any way). The only way it could fail to pass is if a significant number of Democrats changed their votes or if Democratic leadership stalled it for the next 2 years in the senate. I find both of those extremely unlikely to happen. I'm not sure why you seem sure that it isn't going to happen.
I don't expect DOMA to be repealed in the next 2 years--no way, no how. In fact, if I were advising Obama, I'd probably tell him not to try it until his 2nd term (balancing of course the chances of having democratic control of congress. It certainly will never get repealed if Republicans control congress, but if Obama moves on it in his first term it might just end up fueling the anti-gay craze and get an anti-gay rights Republican elected in 2012.)
DADT--I think this one will get movement in the next 4 years at least. I would guess the next 2 years. Again, I'm not sure why you are so sure that none of these things will ever happen. Are you getting info that the rest of us are not privy to? I'm a pretty cynical person when it comes to politics, but it is undoubtedly true that sometimes good things does get done (and so do bad things).
I'm going to be extremely pissed off at the Democratic party if none of these things get done in the next 4-8 years. I honestly can't believe that this will happen not because I think the dems are wonderful, but because to give that much of a smack in the fact to glbt voters would be a really stupid move politically. (Do you equally believe that had McCain won there was a good chance he would have done exactly the opposite of what he said he'd do on ever glbt issue? That he would have been the poster boy for same-sex marriage despite his campaigning against gay rights on every single issue? If not, then why are you suggesting that Obama and Dems in particular are liars but that Republicans can be expected to do exactly what they say they'll do?)
I'd have to keep voting Dem since I agree with them more than Republicans on most other issues. (Although I guess in the alternate reality you are painting, I shouldn't expect Obama to do anything he else he said he'd do either right? Because I guess all Dems lie all the time?) I see no reason whatsoever, though, to think that what you are predicting (that Obama/the Dems will do NOTHING for gay rights, will appoint NO gay friendly judges, etc) will come true.
I went back and read the OP's comments, the bill that passed the house was never voted on by the Senate, nor was the previous version that was presented because it never even cleared the house. So I am unclear on how John McCain was all to blame as well.
As for what should be done, the finger pointing should be stopped. CA is a democratic state, it voted overwelmingly for the Democratic President, and has 2 Democratic Senators, and a majority of Democratic Congressmen. And yet those same voters voted against 8, which means that it was infact the Dems that voted for the thing if it passed.
So, keep up the fight, but stop pointing the fingers at the evil republicans. Something about getting your own house inorder before judging someone else and all that.
Of course the Dem voters of CA who voted for prop 8 are just as much to blame as the Rep voters of CA who voted for it. (And similarly the Reps who voted against deserve just as much credit as the Dems who voted against.) Why would you think I believed otherwise?
I'm not talking about individual citizens. I am talking about parties and their platforms, the actual voting records of the members of different parties, the actual campaign promises of members of different parties, the actual judges who get appointed by members of different parties, etc.
You are acting as if there is no difference whatsoever between the Democratic PARTY/POLITICIANS and the Republican PARTY/POLITICIANS when it comes to how they campaign on gay issues, how they vote on gay issues, what judges they appoint, etc.
I'm not sure how anyone could suggest such a thing with a straight (ha!) face.
Of course the Dem party needs work. (As I said, not sure why you think that I'm a hardcore democrat. I vote D because there are only two parties who can win and D is better than R.) It's amazing to me that so many DEMs dance around the topic of same-sex marriage. But they are the best we've got. They are the ones who have in the past placed the liberal justices on the court who can be counted on to support gay rights. (Of course, some of the more moderate justices--e.g. O'Conner--who have also sided with gays on this issue were put on the court by republican presidents. But note that the republicans running for office never look to those justices as model justices--it's always Scalia, Thomas types, you know the guys who think it is constitutional to punish gay sex with jail time.) They (at least 88% of them) are the ones who vote to end discrimination against gays in employment. They (the Democrats running in the primaries) are the only ones who actually showed up to the HRC town hall meeting on gay issues!
Please. If you can't see a distinct difference between the Republican party/politicians and Democratic party/politicians, perhaps you need a visit to the eye doctor. I mean honestly, if there were an issue you cared about and the Republicans voted for it with 88% in favor and the Dems voted against it with 82% against, would you refrain from saying anything bad about the Dems on this issue because, hey, there was that 12%? You would really pretend that there was no difference between the parties on that issue?
)
for me.
Got it.
