lesbians need not apply

[Master Mason]

Dream team?

As long as we are legally allowed to discriminate against gays and lesbians in our country, there's no damn dream team.

I expect DADT and DOMA to be repealed. And I expect full support for a fully inclusive ENDA.

The dream team? Your feet are to the fire buddies.

Ok, please remember that come mid terms when that is not done, and 4 years from now when it isn't done. Then you can vote republican since the Dems didn't do your bidding.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

I appreciate the fact that you have left the RC church, more than I'll express here.

However, there was some discussion in previous posts about "loving the sinner, hating the sin" nonsense.

That is extremely offensive to me (and I'll be brave enough to say, many of my gay community).

That is the point I am making with my post. Setting the record "straight" if you will allow me a little pun.

 

[MariDisney]

I know what the pp was doing, but to bring up the Catholic religion in this thread is not moot. Christians believe homosexuality or acts of homosexuality are sins, no secret. To me it doesn't matter what type of Christian school it was, if the students broke the code of conduct, which would have clearly stated I promise not do anything against the teachings of...... , then the school has teh right to punish.

FTR. I was born and rasied Catholic, attended Catholic school my entire life, I know what they believe

I apologize if this has been addressed, as I have not read to the end of the thread.

Not all Christian denominations believe homosexuality or homosexual acts are sinful. For example, I belong to the United Church of Christ and all are welcome regardless of sexual orientation. We also ordain homosexuals to the clergy.

 

[Goofyluver]

Ok, please remember that come mid terms when that is not done, and 4 years from now when it isn't done. Then you can vote republican since the Dems didn't do your bidding.

Get off it, Gregg.

This isn't a cutesy little partisan policy wish.

This is about civil rights. Plain and simple.

 

[onelilspark]

So based on your belief in a seperation of church and state (something that doesn't exist in the constitution by the way) are you against Christmas displays in the public square?

Would you feel better if I used the term freedom of religion??

First Amendment of the Constitution:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

So really...by that , I guess we could go ahead and say it's constitutionally okay to ban gay marriage if the people have voted against it. Thanks for pointing out my mistake and making me look it up

FTR: I'm still using the phrase separation of Church and State and I still say because of that gay marriage in the eyes of the state is a-okay by me. And because of the United States Constitution I still say that if a Church deems it immoral to perform gay marriages and refuses, I'm okay by that too.

Now...to your question. I really don't care if a town decides if they want to put up a display or not. But, it sounds like by the Constitution (thanks for having me look that up btw) if they wanted to, technically it's protected. I also think it's okay for a kid to pray in a public school. Basically, in a public forum, if you're not hurting anyone, it's okay in my book

 

[Master Mason]

Get off it, Gregg.

This isn't a cutesy little partisan policy wish.

This is about civil rights. Plain and simple.

I agree, but the responce you took off on, was responding to a partisan comment. So since the OP felt that it was all the republicans fault, it is a completely legitimate question to ask what they are going to do when their chosen party doesn't do anything as well. You watch, DODT will be around come mid term elections, that was one of the very first things that Obama back peddled on.

 

[Master Mason]

I find it hypocritical to preach values based on religion while spouting hate and condemning others.

But it isn't hypocritical if those values express hate and condem others. Just saying.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Get off it, Gregg.

This isn't a cutesy little partisan policy wish.

This is about civil rights. Plain and simple.

And some of us know what it's really about.

 

[onelilspark]

I apologize if this has been addressed, as I have not read to the end of the thread.

Not all Christian denominations believe homosexuality or homosexual acts are sinful. For example, I belong to the United Church of Christ and all are welcome regardless of sexual orientation. We also ordain homosexuals to the clergy.

I posted a whole bit about a page or two back about the different synods of the Lutheran faith (as this was a Lutheran school.) You might find it helpful.

Even the most "liberal" Lutherans (ELCA) haven't decided to ordain or marry homosexuals, but I know it's been a hot topic for us the past couple years. This school falls under the most "conservative" synod.

 

[Goofyluver]

I agree, but the responce you took off on, was responding to a partisan comment. So since the OP felt that it was all the republicans fault, it is a completely legitimate question to ask what they are going to do when their chosen party doesn't do anything as well. You watch, DODT will be around come mid term elections, that was one of the very first things that Obama back peddled on.

Look at the votes on ENDA, Gregg. And read the OP's comments again.

What do you think should be done, Gregg?

We continue to fight for the rights of those that are legally persecuted against in this country.

 

[kinntj]

I'm not surprised that it's a WELS school either. They are strict! I grew up in one and went to church every Sunday. Many years of Sunday school and Catechism and an oral exam in front of the congregation before Confirmation. I have to agree that not all WELS congretations believe that gay people are bad.

Anyway, I do believe they can kick a student out of their school if they don't follow the teachings of WELS. I don't like the fact that they did it due to alleged relationship. It's not my decision though.

I also believe that all people are sinner and no sin is better than any other. I believe in a GOD that loves all people no matter of the sins they commited.

 

[RitaE]

Get off it, Gregg.

This isn't a cutesy little partisan policy wish.

This is about civil rights. Plain and simple.

You believe you have a civil right to force a Church to change their beliefs?

 

[Goofyluver]

But it isn't hypocritical if those values express hate and condem others. Just saying.

Do you have some agenda, Gregg? Just say what you want to say.

I've told you this before. And I'll say it again...as apparently...it's really difficult to understand.

We must never be tolerant of intolerance.

 

[onelilspark]

You believe you have a civil right to force a Church to change their beliefs?

Hey! Look what it says in the Constitution:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

 

[Goofyluver]

You believe you have a civil right to force a Church to change their beliefs?

My response was in regards to legislation, not the church.

 

[purplepaint]

Dream team?

As long as we are legally allowed to discriminate against gays and lesbians in our country, there's no damn dream team.

I expect DADT and DOMA to be repealed. And I expect full support for a fully inclusive ENDA.

The dream team? Your feet are to the fire buddies.

If you want to get technical it is not just homosexuals who are being persecuted against by private schools. Many schools do allow admission to their school for numerous reasons such as being low academically and behavior issues. My daughter had to go through a selection process to enter her school which included past academic records and previous teacher and principle recommendations on both her , me and DH. We also had to sign a statement that she would conduct herself in a manner that was in accordance with the school and the church. I do not think the WELS church is preaching hate but making sure that their students represent them they way they see fit and they have that right. I am not saying it is right but they are entitled to run their PRIVATE school anyway they want.

 

[Charade]

How sad. Just goes to show another incidence of hate and predjudice under the disguise of religion.

Prejudice, yes. Hate. Really? Why is there an automatic jump to "hate" in these discussions?

 

[Goofyluver]

If you want to get technical it is not just homosexuals who are being persecuted against by private schools. Many schools do allow admission to their school for numerous reasons such as being low academically and behavior issues. My daughter had to go through a selection process to enter her school which included past academic records and previous teacher and principle recommendations on both her , me and DH. We also had to sign a statement that she would conduct herself in a manner that was in accordance with the school and the church. I do not think the WELS church is preaching hate but making sure that their students represent them they way they see fit and they have that right. I am not saying it is right but they are entitled to run their PRIVATE school anyway they want.

Again, my response was in regards to another poster on legislation. Not the church.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

It is a civils rights dispute. The court found in favor of the rights of people to freely exercise their religion. It may be lamentable that their religious beliefs are hurtful and odious to some, but freedom of religion is guaranteed by the constitution:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

It is also a right specifically granted by California's education code:

220. No person shall be subjected to discrimination on the basis of sex, ethnic group identification, race, national origin, religion, color, mental or physical disability, or any basis that is contained in the prohibition of hate crimes set forth in subdivision (a) of Section 422.6 of the Penal Code in any program or activity conducted by an educational institution that receives, or benefits from, state financial assistance or enrolls pupils who receive state student financial aid.
220.5. This article shall not apply to an educational institution which is controlled by a religious organization if the application would not be consistent with the religious tenets of that organization.

The right was re-affirmed in 2000 by Boy Scouts of America vs Dale.

Think about it from a different perspective. Should a LGBT organization be forced to extend membership to people that hated gays? Of course not. That would violate the civil rights of the members of the organization. Not allowing this school to enforce its membership rules, however much we may disagree with those rules, would be to violate their civil rights.

 

[Master Mason]

Look at the votes on ENDA, Gregg. And read the OP's comments again.

What do you think should be done, Gregg?

We continue to fight for the rights of those that are legally persecuted against in this country.

I went back and read the OP's comments, the bill that passed the house was never voted on by the Senate, nor was the previous version that was presented because it never even cleared the house. So I am unclear on how John McCain was all to blame as well.

As for what should be done, the finger pointing should be stopped. CA is a democratic state, it voted overwelmingly for the Democratic President, and has 2 Democratic Senators, and a majority of Democratic Congressmen. And yet those same voters voted against 8, which means that it was infact the Dems that voted for the thing if it passed.

So, keep up the fight, but stop pointing the fingers at the evil republicans. Something about getting your own house inorder before judging someone else and all that.