Laws regarding public breastfeeding

[aaarcher86]

If it bothers you, don't look at her. If it really bothers you, you have the right to leave. Since she is within her rights to nurse without a cover, she does not have to change anything.

A mother does not have to cover up to protect the public's sensibilities. Some mothers cover up, some don't. However, it is up to each mother what works best for their baby and themselves. As long as the mother is within the law, she does not have to worry about what anybody else thinks.

And that is exactly why the laws were put into place. To protect a nursing mother from the opinions of the public. For instance, to protect from some business owners like mentioned in the OP.

Well, they were put in place so that nursing mothers couldn't be discriminated against. Opinions aren't discrimination. They're just opinions. Discrimination is an action.

And we all get it. It's legal. I could do a lot of things that are legal but rude. I'm not saying covering up is the answer here or that a mother without a cover is rude, but 'it's legal get over it' doesn't really offer much discussion wise.

 

[gwynne]

Well, they were put in place so that nursing mothers couldn't be discriminated against. Opinions aren't discrimination. They're just opinions. Discrimination is an action.

And we all get it. It's legal. I could do a lot of things that are legal but rude. I'm not saying covering up is the answer here or that a mother without a cover is rude, but 'it's legal get over it' doesn't really offer much discussion wise.

BBM-Exactly, great points! Just to add, I do understand the law, and the why's.
And this is just my opinion, but here goes: I nursed both of mine while living in Europe (30 years ago...back in the dark ages...) I had to be creative, flexible, but it was very do-able. Day trips, overnight trips, transatlantic flights, I nursed everywhere. But, I never saw it as some sort of mission, or a lifestyle, it was a way to feed my babies, period. It didn't bother me to be slightly covered, and it really was a non-issue. A balanced approach is what kept it easy, pleasant. I can't recall a single negative encounter, but I didn't go out of my way to sort of encourage one, either. Live and let live.

 

[Hrhpd]

Well, they were put in place so that nursing mothers couldn't be discriminated against. Opinions aren't discrimination. They're just opinions. Discrimination is an action.

And we all get it. It's legal. I could do a lot of things that are legal but rude. I'm not saying covering up is the answer here or that a mother without a cover is rude, but 'it's legal get over it' doesn't really offer much discussion wise.

You are right that it may be rude to hang everything out, depending on whose definition of rude. But there is absolutely nothing any of us can do about it if the woman is within her legal rights. All the indignation in the world cannot make her stop if she is allowed to do it. So, it is better to just walk away or turn away than get all upset about it.

There are people on this thread that span the entire range of what they think is discreet and what is not. Unfortunately, the law does not care about the people who may be offended. So, you can only control your own environment. Nobody can make the nursing mother go away, cover up or leave a room to go nurse. So, if it upsets one, the only thing they can control is what they are seeing. Turn away or leave. Life is way too short to be offended by what a stranger and her baby are doing, whether she is nursing covered up or has her breast hanging out of her shirt.

 

[aaarcher86]

You are right that it may be rude to hang everything out, depending on whose definition of rude. But there is absolutely nothing any of us can do about it if the woman is within her legal rights. All the indignation in the world cannot make her stop if she is allowed to do it. So, it is better to just walk away or turn away than get all upset about it.

There are people on this thread that span the entire range of what they think is discreet and what is not. Unfortunately, the law does not care about the people who may be offended. So, you can only control your own environment. Nobody can make the nursing mother go away, cover up or leave a room to go nurse. So, if it upsets one, the only thing they can control is what they are seeing. Turn away or leave. Life is way too short to be offended by what a stranger and her baby are doing, whether she is nursing covered up or has her breast hanging out of her shirt.

No, the law isn't worried about opinions.

But opinions and feelings are what lead to changes and laws themselves. It's not like we can't discuss why people feel certain ways or prefer XYZ without dropping the doesn't matter bomb every page whenever someone posts an opinion.

 

[ShayBells]

I don't like the attitude that "I'll do what I want. And I'll not use a cover in the middle of wherever and you can look away" because a boy is not going to look away. And if you're taking your top off sitting there getting prepped or whatever and breast feeding with both boobs hanging out most boys will stare. That's IMO where the courtesy of being discreet comes in. It seems to me people do it however they want to make a point to the "horrible" adults who are "against" BF in public. But what about all the kids. Shouldn't they be respected. I wouldn't want my 6 year old boy to ogle at someone's breast but I don't want to be made to leave either so he doesn't see it. And what about little girls. I can see a 10 year old taking off her shirt and saying but that other woman took her shirt off.

There's so many reasons to be discreet about it. And really why not. There is no way I'd be comfortable walking around fantasy land topless with a baby hanging on my boob.

And just so there is no confusion I don't care if women BF in public. I just prefer them to be discreet. But that's my opinion whether others think it's wrong or not. I can't help how I feel. This argument will never be simple because the answer is always going to be opinionated. And I believe an opinion technically can't be wrong or write. It's just an opinion.

 

[gemini2727]

I don't like the attitude that "I'll do what I want. And I'll not use a cover in the middle of wherever and you can look away" because a boy is not going to look away. And if you're taking your top off sitting there getting prepped or whatever and breast feeding with both boobs hanging out most boys will stare. That's IMO where the courtesy of being discreet comes in. It seems to me people do it however they want to make a point to the "horrible" adults who are "against" BF in public. But what about all the kids. Shouldn't they be respected. I wouldn't want my 6 year old boy to ogle at someone's breast but I don't want to be made to leave either so he doesn't see it. And what about little girls. I can see a 10 year old taking off her shirt and saying but that other woman took her shirt off.

There's so many reasons to be discreet about it. And really why not. There is no way I'd be comfortable walking around fantasy land topless with a baby hanging on my boob.

And just so there is no confusion I don't care if women BF in public. I just prefer them to be discreet. But that's my opinion whether others think it's wrong or not. I can't help how I feel. This argument will never be simple because the answer is always going to be opinionated. And I believe an opinion technically can't be wrong or write. It's just an opinion.

Maybe if we start teaching our boys from a young age what the real purpose of breasts are, our society can stop being so obsessed with sexualizing them. We could say, if they are staring, "That mom is feeding her baby, how sweet." If it's no big deal to you, it'll be no big deal to them. Because it really doesn't have to be such a big deal after all.

 

[aaarcher86]

Maybe if we start teaching our boys from a young age what the real purpose of breasts are, our society can stop being so obsessed with sexualizing them. We could say, if they are staring, "That mom is feeding her baby, how sweet." If it's no big deal to you, it'll be no big deal to them. Because it really doesn't have to be such a big deal after all.

I don't understand this at all. (Not sexualizing the act of breast feeding since I'm sure someone will go there)

Obviously the main purpose of a breast is for breast feeding, but they're still sexual things. They aren't one or the other. They have a dual purpose.

We can keep telling people boobs aren't sexual but it's not going to resonate until they quit being a sexual tool. Nipple and breast stimulation triggers the same areas as the brain as genitals. They're a diverse body part.

The next time we women have sex, let's make sure we tell our husbands to get the hell off our breasts because they aren't sexual. They're just for feeding children.

See how that goes and report back.

 

[gemini2727]

I don't understand this at all.

Obviously the main purpose of a breast is for breast feeding, but they're still sexual things. They aren't one or the other. They have a dual purpose.

We can keep telling people boobs aren't sexual but it's not going to resonate until they quit being a sexual tool. Nipple and breast stimulation triggers the same areas as the brain as genitals. They're a diverse body part.

The next time we women have sex, let's make sure we tell our husbands to get the hell off our breasts because they aren't sexual. They're just for feeding children.

See how that goes and report back.

I never said that breasts aren't sexual at all. To use your own logic, breasts are not solely sexual either. Why can't we teach children the functional side as well? Way to twist words there. good going.

 

[aaarcher86]

I never said that breasts aren't sexual at all. To use your own logic, breasts are not solely sexual either. Why can't we teach children the functional side as well? Way to twist words there. good going.

I didn't say we couldn't. I said they serve multiple purposes, but one doesn't eradicate the other and you can't really change how the brain prioritized things.

Boobs shouldn't be sexualized is what I was addressing.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

I don't understand this at all.

Obviously the main purpose of a breast is for breast feeding, but they're still sexual things. They aren't one or the other. They have a dual purpose.

We can keep telling people boobs aren't sexual but it's not going to resonate until they quit being a foreplay tool. Nipple and breast stimulation triggers the same areas as the brain as genitals. They're a diverse body part.

Lips are sexual too. So are men's nipples. Yet we don't cover those.

People who are used to seeing breasts used for feeding (just as we are used to seeing people use their mouths/lips/tongues for eating, even though they can also be used in sexual ways) are able to easily separate those two purposes.

I have three sons (now adults) and a daughter. Because I do a lot of work with breastfeeding mothers, they all grew up seeing a LOT of breastfeeding all the time. It's so normal for them that they think nothing of it. When they were teenagers, I was helping to host what we called a "rock and rest" tent at a local festival - just a tent set up for parents with change tables in one area, and rocking chairs and comfortable chairs in another that were mostly used by mothers who wanted a cool, quiet spot to nurse their babies to sleep. My sons, who were attending the festival, came over to visit with me at one point when four or five mothers were in the tent breastfeeding. They smiled at the mothers, made a couple of positive comments about the babies, and started to chat with me. I noticed that some of the mothers were reaching for blankets or trying to cover themselves. My boys were just oblivious. With a tent full of semi-exposed breasts they were more interested in telling me about what they'd seen at the festival. Breastfeeding to them is just how babies eat.

All three boys are now married (to women), and two of them are fathers. Their children are also breastfed, and at any family gathering over the past few years you'd see babies being breastfed. None of them think twice about it - conversations go on as usual, nobody stares or is uncomfortable. It's just a baby eating.

 

[aaarcher86]

Lips are sexual too. So are men's nipples. Yet we don't cover those.

People who are used to seeing breasts used for feeding (just as we are used to seeing people use their mouths/lips/tongues for eating, even though they can also be used in sexual ways) are able to easily separate those two purposes.

I have three sons (now adults) and a daughter. Because I do a lot of work with breastfeeding mothers, they all grew up seeing a LOT of breastfeeding all the time. It's so normal for them that they think nothing of it. When they were teenagers, I was helping to host what we called a "rock and rest" tent at a local festival - just a tent set up for parents with change tables in one area, and rocking chairs and comfortable chairs in another that were mostly used by mothers who wanted a cool, quiet spot to nurse their babies to sleep. My sons, who were attending the festival, came over to visit with me at one point when four or five mothers were in the tent breastfeeding. They smiled at the mothers, made a couple of positive comments about the babies, and started to chat with me. I noticed that some of the mothers were reaching for blankets or trying to cover themselves. My boys were just oblivious. With a tent full of semi-exposed breasts they were more interested in telling me about what they'd seen at the festival. Breastfeeding to them is just how babies eat.

All three boys are now married (to women), and two of them are fathers. Their children are also breastfed, and at any family gathering over the past few years you'd see babies being breastfed. None of them think twice about it - conversations go on as usual, nobody stares or is uncomfortable. It's just a baby eating.

I can't really compare lips and nipples. But in regards to moobs, women apparently don't have to cover them either. But I've seen my fair share of women eyeballing a bare male chest. Is expect the same behavior with a female. And I say good looking because I think women are far pickier than men.

Obviously someone around breast feeding would be more comfortable with it. That can be said about anything.

All I'm saying is that acting like boobs aren't sexual is silly. A kid attached to a boob I doubt would garner any sexual thought from normal men.

 

[gemini2727]

I didn't say we couldn't. I said they serve multiple purposes, but one doesn't eradicate the other and you can't really change how the brain prioritized things.

Boobs shouldn't be sexualized is what I was addressing.

I am addressing the PP seeing breasts only as sexual. She didn't want her son "ogling" a nursing mother. I was suggesting that if that situation did happen, she could point out that particular body part's other function as well. And I disagree. I believe you can change how the brain prioritizes. Our society is really quite prudish in some ways, therefore giving breasts "shock value" when they are seen. Other cultures with a more mature, in my opinion, view don't have a problem with seeing a bare breast. Our children follow right along with our own reactions. Before you say I want to desexualize breasts, I never said that. I'm simply saying it could be a teaching moment instead of an uncomfortable situation for all involved.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that breasts are sexual in our culture/society. (As I mentioned in a previous post, there are many cultures where people don't see breasts as sexual.) Or that people of both genders don't like to look at the bodies of the genders they are attracted to!

But women who are using their breasts for their other purpose, feeding their babies, are often criticized because some people can't see past the sexual aspect. That's a problem. Thankfully, we do have laws to protect breastfeeding in many places now. And my point about my boys being comfortable with breastfeeding is that if we had MORE women breastfeeding in public, people would get used to it. And that would be good.

 

[gemini2727]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that breasts are sexual in our culture/society. (As I mentioned in a previous post, there are many cultures where people don't see breasts as sexual.) Or that people of both genders don't like to look at the bodies of the genders they are attracted to!

But women who are using their breasts for their other purpose, feeding their babies, are often criticized because some people can't see past the sexual aspect. That's a problem. Thankfully, we do have laws to protect breastfeeding in many places now. And my point about my boys being comfortable with breastfeeding is that if we had MORE women breastfeeding in public, people would get used to it. And that would be good.

It would be a wonderful thing.

So many new moms where I worked started out with the intention to strictly breastfeed, and so many end up not doing so in reality. I can't help but think that negativity towards nursing in public (which I have experienced myself, even totally covered up) contributes to this. It would be great if it weren't an issue at all.

 

[ShayBells]

I am addressing the PP seeing breasts only as sexual. She didn't want her son "ogling" a nursing mother. I was suggesting that if that situation did happen, she could point out that particular body part's other function as well. And I disagree. I believe you can change how the brain prioritizes. Our society is really quite prudish in some ways, therefore giving breasts "shock value" when they are seen. Other cultures with a more mature, in my opinion, view don't have a problem with seeing a bare breast. Our children follow right along with our own reactions. Before you say I want to desexualize breasts, I never said that. I'm simply saying it could be a teaching moment instead of an uncomfortable situation for all involved.

Just to clarify I never said anything about breasts being sexual or that I thought they were ONLY sexual.

I understand the dual purpose just fine but I just disagree that every kid in the world would be able to seperate the two. And I just personally think you can't have it both ways. The kid who lifts her skirt in school gets in trouble and we are suppose to teach our kids about private parts and that they stay private. Not every kid is gonna get "private parts are private except when breastfeeding. Than it becomes not a private part but only when a baby is feeding any other time it's a private part" not every kid would get that.

 

[gemini2727]

Just to clarify I never said anything about breasts being sexual or that I thought they were ONLY sexual.

I understand the dual purpose just fine but I just disagree that every kid in the world would be able to seperate the two. And I just personally think you can't have it both ways. The kid who lifts her skirt in school gets in trouble and we are suppose to teach our kids about private parts and that they stay private. Not every kid is gonna get "private parts are private except when breastfeeding. Than it becomes not a private part but only when a baby is feeding any other time it's a private part" not every kid would get that.

I don't think you give kids enough credit. It's the parent's judgement that the kids pick up, and if that's your opinion, it's not my business. I'm just saying that kid's don't have to automatically see nursing as inappropriate unless the parent feels it is. And it really shouldn't be viewed as an indecent thing, in my opinion.

 

[MickeySP]

Maybe if we start teaching our boys from a young age what the real purpose of breasts are, our society can stop being so obsessed with sexualizing them. We could say, if they are staring, "That mom is feeding her baby, how sweet." If it's no big deal to you, it'll be no big deal to them. Because it really doesn't have to be such a big deal after all.

Spoken like someone who never had boys.

I raised my DS to respect & be respected. He has never had a problem being that but if he saw boobs in public he is staring. Btw his DW breastfed all 3.

 

[ShayBells]

I don't think you give kids enough credit. Males' private parts have a dual purpose, and men handle that just fine. Why can't women get the same consideration? It's the parent's judgement that the kids pick up, and if that's your opinion, it's not my business. I'm just saying that kid's don't have to automatically see nursing as inappropriate unless the parent feels it is. And it really shouldn't be viewed as an indecent thing, in my opinion.

I'm not saying they view or should view nursing as inappropriate. It's not. I'm saying when they see a boob that is what they are seeing whether it's for nursing or on a topless beach it's the same thing. A boob is a boob no matter what. And you're right I could just say she's feeding her child and than be done but some kids are going to stare and you can't tell them not to if it's beings being made public.

 

[gemini2727]

Spoken like someone who never had boys.

I raised my DS to respect & be respected. He has never had a problem being that but if he saw boobs in public he is staring. Btw his DW breastfed all 3.

I have a boy. Why do you assume I don't? (It's in my signature BTW)
He's been around a nursing mother and thinks nothing of it, because we never made a big deal about it. And if a kid stares out of curiosity, so what? Explain what the mom is doing, move on.

 

[undertheradar]

As a male, all female breast exposure is sexual. I don't understand why a woman can't feed her baby without showing the entire room her breast. The "commando" breast feeding movement needs to step back a bit, there are plenty of women who are quite capable of breastfeeding without becoming a feature film.