Jon and Kate Plus 8 Official Thread - Part 8

[Lisa loves Pooh]

What are Jodi and Kevin accused of doing that warrants defending? People disagree about their motives, but their message has to be okay, right?

Defending their intent and their message.

People are quick to step forward and say that noone is stepping forward to defend Kate from Kate's family. But they aren't stepping forward for Kevin either.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Upthread you specifically said she is talking... I asked a legitimate follow up question and you dismissed it. Her blog ended in Oct 2009 and as you just said it isn't a way to report abuse and mishandling of children but you also dismissed her (jodi) as only an in-law and not a relative. So what is she, a legitimate source for trying to make a change if she felt like it or only an in-law bystander???

I used an inappropriate tense. I was referring back to the intial conduct of Jodi and her sister and the blogging. The person I dismissed--was Jodi's sister....not Jodi herself. Bad afternoon, so you can think I'm backpedaling or changing my tune-but I'm not. This is my clarification, you can choose to accept it or not, I really don't care one way or the other.

She is an illegitimate source b/c blogging gossip is not how you try to handle an alleged crime of abuse.

She's also not a first hand account.

She has no legal authority to do crap.

IF you knew a child was being harmed--would you blog about it, or call the police, or call dept of children and families or at the very least call the dept of labor if it were a work situation?

I don't know about you--but if a child is being harmed, blogging is the LAST thing I would EVER consider.

IT doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

 

[DMRick]

What are Jodi and Kevin accused of doing that warrants defending? People disagree about their motives, but their message has to be okay, right?

Because of how they did it..for money, I'm not sure just how much I believe of what they said. I think a lot of what they did say was exagerated..I just don't see, for instance, talking about what he sad yesterday, that the kids will be scarred from being told the wrong day was Christmas. To me (and ymmv, and that's ok, we all have different parenting opinions) that's just picky stuff. A lot of what they said in the original interview was junk about Kate and Jon already being on the outs and that Kate drank wine, etc. and not the kids...or at least not stuff that I saw would be dangerous to the kids. If it truly was about the kids, I can only have hoped, if they loved them as much as they say they did, they would have done something about what they said was wrong at the time. I still haven't seen where the authorities said the children were mistreated doing the show. Yes, they didn't have permits (and they didn't fine them for that, so maybe TLC was right?), yes, they needed to have trust funds. But where did they find the mistreatment?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yes I did see it, I just don't think that they get anywhere near what Jon and Kate get. I still wonder if Jodi really didn't realize what Jon and Kate where doing until later. Sometimes it does take a while then it hits you what is going on. Maybe not, maybe they did know all along, and yes that would make them pretty nasty people. I just have a hard time looking at how wonderful they were to the kids, and thinking that they believed that the kids were really being harmed.

Even Jon and Kate at first seems no nice and cute, it took a while before I realized how horrible they were. I am sorry but for me personally there is just to much bad info out there on Kate for none of it to be true.

Maybe just maybe the whole family is totally screwed up and the kids should be with someone completely outside the family.

She realized early enough to go crying to her sister.

I find the bolded funny anytime everyone says that. Back in season 1, I Did not think this. Heck, the show open clearly showed who wore the pants in the family and that "nice" was the last thing on her mind. Anyone remember: "HelLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" in the pumpkin patch (or somewhere)?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Hair flies around and lands on and in things. I am sorry but I just don't understand why anyone thinks hair flying around in a kitchen is a good idea.

Nothing I like more than finding a hair in my food or on a dish or cup.

Do you know what dust consists of?

Dead skin cells?

Did you know that most dusting just spreads it around?

Yep--lots of other gross stuff that happens in your home.

One particualr exceptionally gross thing that was discovered on mythbusters.

Much worse than a stray hair from brushing outside of food preparation.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Ok sit down so you don't fall over. As much as I don't like Kate, I can't stand those people either. I hope I have been clear that I don't like Kate because of her attitude and I think she isn't that great of a mother. Do I think she endangers the kids, nope, I do think she could make better choices. And I don't believe for one second that everything she does is for the kids. She also stated on Good Morning America (I think) That she would rather be at home all the time cooking and baking for the kids.(she said that she hated baking and that Jodi was an awesome baker at one time) Anyway, I don't believe for one second that she would be home with them full time even if she had enough money right now to pay off the house pay for each of them to get a masters degree and everything else that goes along with raising them. I think she likes the attention, s=and she would never give that perk up. Anyway off topic. I can't stand thoses people at GWOP. The hate that she tans, gets a maicure and pedi. Who cares. They get mad when she doesn't buy those poor babies milk, Who cares, milk isn't that great for you anyway. They even say that Kate starves the kids to keep them small CRAZY . So on that you and I agree. SHOCKING. lol

She's not Mrs. Cleaver that's for sure.

The people on GWOP--are repulsive hypocrites.

 

[walden]

Yes I did see it, I just don't think that they get anywhere near what Jon and Kate get. I still wonder if Jodi really didn't realize what Jon and Kate where doing until later. Sometimes it does take a while then it hits you what is going on. Maybe not, maybe they did know all along, and yes that would make them pretty nasty people. I just have a hard time looking at how wonderful they were to the kids, and thinking that they believed that the kids were really being harmed.

Even Jon and Kate at first seems no nice and cute, it took a while before I realized how horrible they were. I am sorry but for me personally there is just to much bad info out there on Kate for none of it to be true.

Maybe just maybe the whole family is totally screwed up and the kids should be with someone completely outside the family.

Well, I agree somewhat. Read on .

I'm actually quite surprised by the backlash against Jodi and Kevin. I hardly see them as evil, because the filmed interactions between them and the kids were adorable. I have not seen any evidence that they were compensated for all that childcare. Or paid for their time on screen, although it seems that they regret their participation now. Anyone can change their minds and regret actions.

Jodi took the kids for all those one-on-one days. Kate said so. Also Jodi and Kevin took all the kids (sick kids, IIRC) when Jon and Kate went for Jon's (elective) hair transplants.

Unless we were there for the conversations we cannot know whether or not Jodi and Kevin shared their concerns with Jon and Kate in a timely manner. By "timely" I mean before they were cut off from the children they had been babysitting. I do not really care whether that was due to a compensation issue or perhaps sharing concerns about excessive TLC filming that they gradually became uncomfortable with.

When was it that Kate stopped all contact? She just said 2 years ago. OK, April 2008, if we believe her latest statement.

We do not know, because we were not there, whether or not they shared concerns with Jon and Kate, with TLC/Discovery, or with state authorities before April 2008.

Yes, in May 2009, they did go to the press. ROL, CBS, whatever. Were they paid? I don't know. Do you? Have you seen the checks? If they were paid - perhaps they put the money into the TAP funds for the Gosselin children? Those State college funds Kate claimed were empty. I have no idea whether they did that or not. Neither do you. We can assume either way and some people topple over themselves to give Kate the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, assumptions can go both ways. From what I have seen Jodi and Kevin are doing the best they can in hard circumstances. In the video testimony I saw yesterday neither slammed Kate or Jon. It was also clear that they avoided doing so and also refused to respond to leading questions. Good for them.

Kate, on the other hand, slammed Kevin -- her brother! -- unmercifully yesterday as a broke money grubber. Her statement last night that he and Jodi ran to the press after every visit to the Gosselin home is patently untrue. They did not go to the press until Kate had cut off all contact. That is one thing they all agree about.

So, on balance, that makes me feel that Kevin and Jodi are more credible than Kate.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Because of how they did it..for money, I'm not sure just how much I believe of what they said. I think a lot of what they did say was exagerated..I just don't see, for instance, talking about what he sad yesterday, that the kids will be scarred from being told the wrong day was Christmas. To me (and ymmv, and that's ok, we all have different parenting opinions) that's just picky stuff. A lot of what they said in the original interview was junk about Kate and Jon already being on the outs and that Kate drank wine, etc. and not the kids...or at least not stuff that I saw would be dangerous to the kids. If it truly was about the kids, I can only have hoped, if they loved them as much as they say they did, they would have done something about what they said was wrong at the time. I still haven't seen where the authorities said the children were mistreated doing the show. Yes, they didn't have permits (and they didn't fine them for that, so maybe TLC was right?), yes, they needed to have trust funds. But where did they find the mistreatment?

This is the other problem...

Kate is getting crucified for perfectly legal things brought up to imply an indiscreation.

I.e. she drinks wine...oooohhhhh baddddd...

Young children are not going to care about a separate day for Christmas and nothing wrong with celebrating it on a different day.

My sister has celebrated Christmas with her dad on Christmas Eve since she was quite little. He was a military pilot and was ALWAYS working Christmas day. When that stopped in later years, they kept with the tradition.

Christmas is more than just a date on the calendar. No wonder they didn't call teh authorities. The authorities would have laughed.

And mark my words--sorry, but no law will be made to force anyone to celebrate or film a holiday on the actual day. Idiots!

(and lest my vehemence for the idiots I call Kevin and Jodi impy that I think highly of Jon and Kate....folks are very mistaken to assume that. I am not a sheeple.)

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I have not seen any evidence that they were compensated for all that childcare

Are you saying they should have been?

B/c on camera it seemed that Jodi was quite fine with helping Kate out?

Are they pressing for a law that anyone who watches kid(s) as a favor must be compenstated?

When was it that Kate stopped all contact? She just said 2 years ago. OK, April 2008, if we believe her latest statement.

We do not know, because we were not there, whether or not they shared concerns with Jon and Kate, with TLC/Discovery, or with state authorities before April 2008. .

That falls in line with gumgate and the contract talks.

If they went--it seems a very key piece of information to leave out of blog gossip, paid interviews, and testimony, does it not?

Yes, in May 2009, they did go to the press. ROL, CBS, whatever. Were they paid? I don't know. Do you? Have you seen the checks? If they were paid - perhaps they put the money into the TAP funds for the Gosselin children? Those State college funds Kate claimed were empty. I have no idea whether they did that or not. Neither do you. We can assume either way and some people topple over themselves to give Kate the benefit of the doubt.

I came across that while those funds were set up--it doesn't mean that there was any money let alone adequate money put into them. But if we are to not believe that Kate and Jon never set aside money--why would we presume that Kevin and Jodi, at the expense of their own family--would donate money to their nieces and nephews. That's pretty naive. (I don't give Kate the BOD either--saying that we don't "know" what she did is not the same as assuming that she did it.)

Yes, assumptions can go both ways. From what I have seen Jodi and Kevin are doing the best they can in hard circumstances. In the video testimony I saw yesterday neither slammed Kate or Jon. It was also clear that they avoided doing so and also refused to respond to leading questions. Good for them.

I disagree. They are playing the victim role quite well. We cannot believe Kate stresses at all with her 8 children b/c she has help and no room to complain. But Jodi does something pretty stupid (giving 3yo's gum!)--and she is just so victimized that we are to buy that as reasons to feel sorry for her.

You cannot "slam" people in a court room--you have to provide facts..NOT opinions. They cannot say anything that says how they FEEL about Jon and Kate. They can only provide facts that back up what the hearing is about. In their heartbreaking videos (including Jodi validating her sister's blog and the TMZ or radar or whomever they sold out to interviews)--they can share as much opinions as they wish about those two. And they slammed them quite well.

Kate, on the other hand, slammed Kevin -- her brother! -- unmercifully yesterday as a broke money grubber. Her statement last night that he and Jodi ran to the press after every visit to the Gosselin home is patently untrue. They did not go to the press until Kate had cut off all contact. That is one thing they all agree about.

So, on balance, that makes me feel that Kevin and Jodi are more credible than Kate.

Kate was not in a courtroom and I feel was justified of her brother's intent.

FWIW--Kevin and Jodi have no place to provide psychological commentary on the impact to the children. (seriously--they will be scarred b/c Christmas was filmed on a different day???)

I would have to watch the clip again--but I think Kate siad that SHE did not allow them to see the children.

When Jon allowed them to see the kids, they did turn around and report on what should have been a PRIVATE family reunion. We don't need to know how wonderful it was for the kids to see Jodi. It was spin, and they certainly new it.

 

[mhsjax]

She realized early enough to go crying to her sister.

I find the bolded funny anytime everyone says that. Back in season 1, I Did not think this. Heck, the show open clearly showed who wore the pants in the family and that "nice" was the last thing on her mind. Anyone remember: "HelLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" in the pumpkin patch (or somewhere)?

I do remember the Hello, I was hoping that this was sort of isolated. But she just got worse and worse. You can wear the pants and still be somewhat civil and not demeaning.

 

[mhsjax]

I don't think giving 3 year olds gum in necessarily stupid, my 3 year olds could handle it. kate doesn't let them do anything, no gum, no markers, no dirt, no nothing.

 

[Dee77]

I just caught part of Part 2 with Billy Bush on Access Hollywood, he asked if she ever feels it is difficult to reconcile selling their privacy to TLC and her answer was that she could have stopped it but the paparazzi and fan inundation would still be there without the paycheck and to them it didn't make sense.

When asked if she could retire and the kids be OK she answered sadly no, because she has major, major, major legal debt. If she could disappear and be financially set she wouldn't be seen again.

They immediately followed up this segment with viewer messages saying they are sick of seeing Kate on DWTS and their show. Billy said it's 90% against Kate, she's in the top three along with Jon and Heidi Montag...

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I do remember the Hello, I was hoping that this was sort of isolated. But she just got worse and worse. You can wear the pants and still be somewhat civil and not demeaning.

I thought she was demeaning (and I was sadly humored by it) much of the first season.

So I do agree that you can be civil and not demeaning. My DH has NEVER liked how Kate treated Jon so when I watched in that first season--he really couldn't deal with it after a couple of episodes.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't think giving 3 year olds gum in necessarily stupid, my 3 year olds could handle it. kate doesn't let them do anything, no gum, no markers, no dirt, no nothing.

Mine swallow it. They think it is a food item. (So thankfully it doesn't get everywhere--but b/c they swallow it, we don't offer it again until they are old enough to understand that it isn't food).

Kate not letting them do things that cause messes--isn't a crime, isn't illegal or isn't abusive.

We all have our parenting quirks. No law can be created that will require any parent to allow a child to use a marker if the parent doesn't allow it.

I think we get lost in all of Kate's "silly" and "dumb" and "obsessive" rules--and there are many--that we have lost site that she as the parent does have the right to have those restrictions in place. It isn't abusive. Her kids don't lack other ways to have fun and play.

Heck--I let my kids jump in puddles and it drives DH CRAZY. He prefers to not allow it--and if mud is involved or they are in Sunday Best or something that can get ruined--I don't let them. But if we are running the grocery store and see a puddle on our walk in or out--they are free to splash as we walk through it. (no we don't stop and play, but we don't avoid it either).

I'm not abusing them by allow this folly and DH isn't abusing them when he bans it in his presence.

Clearly, that isn't in Kate's repertoire of what she allows, but if there had been a scene shot of her "banning" that behavior--it would have been blown out of proportion by her hating public. And then used in testimony today by Jodi and Kevin as another illustration of why this show is bad.

I think many (not necessarily you--just thinking in general) have lost site of where to draw the line on what was wrong/unethical in terms of filming the children and what was simply a parenting decision that any parent has the right to make.

I feel that many haters are secretly hoping that Kate will be declared an abusive parent when all she is guilty of is living with a corn cob up her hiney.

We don't all parent the same way and no law can make us do that.

But presenting how Kate parents as demonstration on why filming a documentary is unsafe--I have a problem with that.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

.

When asked if she could retire and the kids be OK she answered sadly no, because she has major, major, major legal debt. If she could disappear and be financially set she wouldn't be seen again.

Where did she get her lawyer?

Rodeo Drive? 5th Avenue?

She can do what she wishes--but how can a divorce attorney cost that much that she's up the creek without an entertainerment salary?

 

[mhsjax]

Mine swallow it. They think it is a food item. (So thankfully it doesn't get everywhere--but b/c they swallow it, we don't offer it again until they are old enough to understand that it isn't food).

Kate not letting them do things that cause messes--isn't a crime, isn't illegal or isn't abusive.

We all have our parenting quirks. No law can be created that will require any parent to allow a child to use a marker if the parent doesn't allow it.

I think we get lost in all of Kate's "silly" and "dumb" and "obsessive" rules--and there are many--that we have lost site that she as the parent does have the right to have those restrictions in place. It isn't abusive. Her kids don't lack other ways to have fun and play.

Heck--I let my kids jump in puddles and it drives DH CRAZY. He prefers to not allow it--and if mud is involved or they are in Sunday Best or something that can get ruined--I don't let them. But if we are running the grocery store and see a puddle on our walk in or out--they are free to splash as we walk through it. (no we don't stop and play, but we don't avoid it either).

I'm not abusing them by allow this folly and DH isn't abusing them when he bans it in his presence.

Clearly, that isn't in Kate's repertoire of what she allows, but if there had been a scene shot of her "banning" that behavior--it would have been blown out of proportion by her hating public. And then used in testimony today by Jodi and Kevin as another illustration of why this show is bad.

I think many (not necessarily you--just thinking in general) have lost site of where to draw the line on what was wrong/unethical in terms of filming the children and what was simply a parenting decision that any parent has the right to make.

I feel that many haters are secretly hoping that Kate will be declared an abusive parent when all she is guilty of is living with a corn cob up her hiney.

We don't all parent the same way and no law can make us do that.

But presenting how Kate parents as demonstration on why filming a documentary is unsafe--I have a problem with that.

I was merely responding to you saying that Jodi did something stupid like give a 3 year old gum. And actually, I don't at all think Kate is abusive, I don't think she is a great mother either, I think she is mean and cold,and I do agree she has a whole corn field of them up her hiney. But I also don't think as badly of Jodi and Kevin as you do. Maybe they should have said something earlier, but maybe they thought since the kids weren't truly in danger that they would let it slide. And then just like me, they thought her behavior got worse and worse and decided to say something. We really have no way of knowing the truth on either side.

 

[Dee77]

Where did she get her lawyer?

Rodeo Drive? 5th Avenue?

She can do what she wishes--but how can a divorce attorney cost that much that she's up the creek without an entertainerment salary?

Exactly, it's not like their separation and divorce dragged on for years like some couple's. Plus I thought that they (since it was a high profile client) would have done it for a fraction of the cost since they got so much free exposure. There is a part of me that thinks it was an exaggeration since TLC wanted her to do well in the divorce and had their attorneys working behind the scenes on other issues.

 

[mhsjax]

Do you know what dust consists of?

Dead skin cells?

Did you know that most dusting just spreads it around?

Yep--lots of other gross stuff that happens in your home.

One particualr exceptionally gross thing that was discovered on mythbusters.

Much worse than a stray hair from brushing outside of food preparation.

True, but in my warped mind, I don't have to pull out a strand of dust form the food in my mouth.

 

[Dee77]

I was merely responding to you saying that Jodi did something stupid like give a 3 year old gum. And actually, I don't at all think Kate is abusive, I don't think she is a great mother either, I think she is mean and cold,and I do agree she has a whole corn field of them up her hiney. But I also don't think as badly of Jodi and Kevin as you do. Maybe they should have said something earlier, but maybe they thought since the kids weren't truly in danger that they would let it slide. And then just like me, they thought her behavior got worse and worse and decided to say something. We really have no way of knowing the truth on either side.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this plus I feel that given Kate's track record of discarding people, they may have wanted to tread carefully. She is a force to be reckoned with as gumgate proved, you don't cross Kate and you certainly don't come between her and a paycheck.

 

[mhsjax]

Well, I agree somewhat. Read on .

I'm actually quite surprised by the backlash against Jodi and Kevin. I hardly see them as evil, because the filmed interactions between them and the kids were adorable. I have not seen any evidence that they were compensated for all that childcare. Or paid for their time on screen, although it seems that they regret their participation now. Anyone can change their minds and regret actions.

Jodi took the kids for all those one-on-one days. Kate said so. Also Jodi and Kevin took all the kids (sick kids, IIRC) when Jon and Kate went for Jon's (elective) hair transplants.

Unless we were there for the conversations we cannot know whether or not Jodi and Kevin shared their concerns with Jon and Kate in a timely manner. By "timely" I mean before they were cut off from the children they had been babysitting. I do not really care whether that was due to a compensation issue or perhaps sharing concerns about excessive TLC filming that they gradually became uncomfortable with.

When was it that Kate stopped all contact? She just said 2 years ago. OK, April 2008, if we believe her latest statement.

We do not know, because we were not there, whether or not they shared concerns with Jon and Kate, with TLC/Discovery, or with state authorities before April 2008.

Yes, in May 2009, they did go to the press. ROL, CBS, whatever. Were they paid? I don't know. Do you? Have you seen the checks? If they were paid - perhaps they put the money into the TAP funds for the Gosselin children? Those State college funds Kate claimed were empty. I have no idea whether they did that or not. Neither do you. We can assume either way and some people topple over themselves to give Kate the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, assumptions can go both ways. From what I have seen Jodi and Kevin are doing the best they can in hard circumstances. In the video testimony I saw yesterday neither slammed Kate or Jon. It was also clear that they avoided doing so and also refused to respond to leading questions. Good for them.

Kate, on the other hand, slammed Kevin -- her brother! -- unmercifully yesterday as a broke money grubber. Her statement last night that he and Jodi ran to the press after every visit to the Gosselin home is patently untrue. They did not go to the press until Kate had cut off all contact. That is one thing they all agree about.

So, on balance, that makes me feel that Kevin and Jodi are more credible than Kate.

I agree, they are way more credible than Kate. And if Kevin is such a money grubber(and I am not sure that he is) THen why did Kate refuse to allow them to be paid. And yes you are correct, Jodi took those kids when they were sick, so Jon could have his hair transplants.