It Never Ends

[Gumbo4x4]

let's take this "Good guy with a gun" to its full extent.

Someone goes into a crowded grocery store and starts shooting at people....everyone around has their own gun, so instead of taking cover, they all start shooting back at the shooter from different directions....is that going to be a good outcome? bullets flying every direction?

I'm sure there has been some instance of it somewhere, but in the 20+ years of increasing CCW licensing, I'm having a hard time remembering any instances of innocents wounded by stray gunfire from CCWers.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Thought provoking…

http://gawker.com/its-really-hard-to-be-a-good-guy-with-a-gun-1588660306

apologies if it has already been posted

Was pretty interesting for a while, but he did have some issues. Some of his specific firearms comments made it fairly clear he doesn't have a lot of firearms or ballistics knowledge. Makes me wonder how much of it he made up. Shame because there are some good points.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Thought provoking…

http://gawker.com/its-really-hard-to-be-a-good-guy-with-a-gun-1588660306

apologies if it has already been posted

He states clearly that not one mass shooter has been stopped by a CC Person. I can think of 2 off the top of my head; one was at a school that the principle retrieved his gun from his car and confronted the gunman, the other was at a mall I believe in California.

 

[Caseheidi]

The Shooting at Reynolds High School in Oregon today is my Alma Mater. Also, my nephews are in this school district. This one has hit me hard and brought it home.. While we are lucky that only one teacher was injured, one student killed and the shooter (no word yet who he is and why he was there) is killed, this is so not acceptable. How can it be acceptable that this was the 74 th school shooting in18 months? What can be done about this situation? How can we be active in keeping our children safer? My own Daughter enters the school world in September as a Kindergartner, and that is scary enough as a Mom even befor thinking about guns coming into the schools and people killing innocents.

 

[Jennasis]

I'm sure there has been some instance of it somewhere, but in the 20+ years of increasing CCW licensing, I'm having a hard time remembering any instances of innocents wounded by stray gunfire from CCWers.

What would be the legality of of a CC (or open carry) individual even opening fire? Let's say they are in Walmart and in comes Joe-Looney Tunes who starts shooting. Does the legally carrying individual have the legal right to engage in a gun fight? Only if they themselves were being shot at? Could they go skulking through the store for the gunman? Or would they be legally expected to try to get out/away from the shooter? And what if they did hit a bystander?

I honestly don't know any of the answers above.

 

[kimblebee]

Today marks 74 dead from school shootings since Newton.

Not 74 dead, 74 school shootings. There are no words really.

 

[mommasita]

Not 74 dead, 74 school shootings. There are no words really.

No, but guns need to stop being glorified, and until that happens, it will continue.. NOTHING has changed since Sandy Hook.. That is just not acceptable.. As a nation we are far from perfect, but we have free healthcare for everyone... People with mental illness can be seen and should be seen...

I can't fathom metal detectors being needed in school for children.. Staff needing to carry.. I would no longer live here, that is for certain. Gosh, it has only been a few years that the School front door has been locked with a door bell installed.. And I live in a big city... Like I said, we have crime, and lately a lot more than usual, which is strange... We held an international Grand Prix here this weekend, I spent the weekend downtown in the midst of it.. Police Officers everywhere, one couldn't even see their weapons.. Celebrities all over, no body guards..

I don't pretend to have any answers.. My heart bleeds when I watch it unfold on TV, and instead of thinking more gun laws, and why it should be, I wish there was more focus on gun control..

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

He states clearly that not one mass shooter has been stopped by a CC Person. I can think of 2 off the top of my head; one was at a school that the principle retrieved his gun from his car and confronted the gunman, the other was at a mall I believe in California.

Actually in the case of the school, the shooter was already done with his shooting spree and had left the building BEFORE the assistant principle went out and got his gun. The assistant principle then approached the perpetrator and kept him there until police arrived. The principle also wasn't some average joe with a cc. He was army reserve.
Claiming this as stoppage by an average joe with a CC is dubious.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Actually in the case of the school, the shooter was already done with his shooting spree and had left the building BEFORE the assistant principle went out and got his gun. The assistant principle then approached the perpetrator and kept him there until police arrived. The principle also wasn't some average joe with a cc. He was army reserve.
Claiming this as stoppage by an average joe with a CC is dubious.

1st-he stated "not one" and I was simply pointing out this to be false.

2nd- the shooter was stopped by an "armed good guy" not dubious at all.

 

[robinb]

Emilio Hoffman, the boy who died, was just a 14-years old finishing up his freshman year and with his life ahead of him. My own DD is a 14-year old freshman.

And now, less than 24-hours after he died, CNN has swept the story off their front page entirely onto their "justice" page .

 

[Gumbo4x4]

1st-he stated "not one" and I was simply pointing out this to be false.

2nd- the shooter was stopped by an "armed good guy" not dubious at all.

The argument in the article is a silly one anyway as "mass shootings" make up such a tiny fraction of overall violent crime. Fact is, there have been 10's of thousands of instances of armed citizens halting violent crimes in progress - some of which may have become "mass shootings" had nobody intervened.

Even in the specific instance listed, the CCWer was killed. But, he was the final victim, correct? How many people were able to flee in the few seconds that transpired after he got the drop on the husband, but before the wife got the drop on him? Police are calling him a hero, so the assumption is that without his intervention, things could have been much, much worse.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

What would be the legality of of a CC (or open carry) individual even opening fire? Let's say they are in Walmart and in comes Joe-Looney Tunes who starts shooting. Does the legally carrying individual have the legal right to engage in a gun fight? Only if they themselves were being shot at? Could they go skulking through the store for the gunman? Or would they be legally expected to try to get out/away from the shooter? And what if they did hit a bystander?

I honestly don't know any of the answers above.

I couldn't answer definitively either. I don't believe there would be any ramifications in my state (and it probably varies by state) as long no innocents are hurt. I would think bystanders being shot by the would-be hero would absolutely be things one could be held accountable for.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

The argument in the article is a silly one anyway as "mass shootings" make up such a tiny fraction of overall violent crime. Fact is, there have been 10's of thousands of instances of armed citizens halting violent crimes in progress - some of which may have become "mass shootings" had nobody intervened.

Even in the specific instance listed, the CCWer was killed. But, he was the final victim, correct? How many people were able to flee in the few seconds that transpired after he got the drop on the husband, but before the wife got the drop on him? Police are calling him a hero, so the assumption is that without his intervention, things could have been much, much worse.

I just think of the Charles Whitman shooting in Austin back in the 60's. He was shooting at students from the clock tower on the University of Texas campus. Now, back in this day, it was very common for people to leave their shotguns and such in their trucks from hunting. As Whitman opened fire, many ran to their trucks, got their own guns, and fired back. This forced Whitman to stay pinned down to where he was unable to to take aim. Austin PD gave a statement about how many lives had been saved that day by the citizens with their guns. Charles Whitman was former military and had earned a Sharpshooter's Badge. He did some serious damage, but could have killed so many more had the citizens of Austin not been armed and able to keep him pinned below the ledge.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I just think of the Charles Whitman shooting in Austin back in the 60's. He was shooting at students from the clock tower on the University of Texas campus. Now, back in this day, it was very common for people to leave their shotguns and such in their trucks from hunting. As Whitman opened fire, many ran to their trucks, got their own guns, and fired back. This forced Whitman to stay pinned down to where he was unable to to take aim. Austin PD gave a statement about how many lives had been saved that day by the citizens with their guns. Charles Whitman was former military and had earned a Sharpshooter's Badge. He did some serious damage, but could have killed so many more had the citizens of Austin not been armed and able to keep him pinned below the ledge.

Whitman was also subdued by an off duty officer with the help of an armed citizen. People also forget that Whitman killed 14 people with a basic hunting rifle that only held 4 shells and had to be reloaded 1 at a time.

Interestingly, I read that an autopsy found Whitman had a brain tumor and it's speculated that could have been what set him off.

 

[Cowboysrule]

Today marks 74 dead from school shootings since Newton.

Can you list the names of the dead?

 

[EMode]

I know this is from Wikipedia so may not be 100% accurate but I thought it was interesting. School shootings have been happening since the 1700's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Whitman was also subdued by an off duty officer with the help of an armed citizen. People also forget that Whitman killed 14 people with a basic hunting rifle that only held 4 shells and had to be reloaded 1 at a time.

Interestingly, I read that an autopsy found Whitman had a brain tumor and it's speculated that could have been what set him off.

He also visited a doctor a couple of times saying that he knew something was wrong with him, but they supposedly just brushed him off.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

He also visited a doctor a couple of times saying that he knew something was wrong with him, but they supposedly just brushed him off.

See, that I did not know. Wow, that's interesting, and sad.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

See, that I did not know. Wow, that's interesting, and sad.

It is sad. It also does a lot to prove my theory that it isn't gun control we need. It's better care for mental health.

 

[Disney Doll]

I think it's a combination of both.

I do not think the average citizen needs to own a gun which can shoot off 100s of bullets in a matter of less than 5 minutes. If mental illness is the root of the problem then we don't need the mentally I'll to be able to get access to that kind of firepower.

I also think we need to figure out why the first response for many people today is violence. Is it mental illness? If so, why does there seem to be so much more of a frequent occurrence of this violent response from the mentally ill? Yes there have been these kind of "mass" shootings in the past but they seem to be occurring with more regularity in recent years.

Is it the sense of entitlement and expectation that children are being raised with these days? Is it the protecting of children from ever being disappointed so that when something doesn't go their way they lash out like this? I live about 15 minutes from the town where a high school student slashed a girl's throat and killed her because she refused his prom invitation. How are we raising children who think this is an appropriate reaction to a refused date? Are all these kids mentally I'll? If so, why are there suddenly so many more mentally ill teens and young adults?

Somehow society, parents or some combination of the two is screwing up.