Is it okay to put family first? (Response to royal family stuff)

[BadPinkTink]

Oprah said on whatever show Gayle King is on that M&H confirmed it was not Phillip or the Queen who made the remark about how dark Archie's skin might be. So, that really only leaves Charles or William as the ones who may have said it as they're the only other real stakeholders in that family. I'd find it hard to believe William would say something like that to his brother, or even care enough about something like that. Seems like something an older more traditioned man that will be assuming the throne in the near-ish future would say (assuming the remark is true).

Actually for what I can figure out, I think its The Duke of Gloucester's wife who they are alluding to. Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester is Queen Elizabeth's first cousin. His father was the younger brother of Queen Elizabeth's father. He and his wife Birgitte, Duchess of Gloucester used to live in Apartment 1 in Kensington Palace but they moved to a smaller residence in Kensington Palace complex called The Old Stables in 2019.

 

[nkereina]

Did they say it was part of the inner circle?

Once again, this is exactly why presenting this the way they did was so wrong. Because it ends up with all this speculation and guessing.

Yes, part of the family. Gayle was asking Oprah if they gave a name, and Oprah said they wouldn't confirm a name - just that it wasn't the Queen and it wasn't Phillip.

You are right - the way they dropped these bombs and then left it dangling for people to make assumptions is pretty damaging. If you want to tell your side and air the dirty laundry of the royals, then give it all up or not at all. Harry seemed pretty adamant he didn't want to disrespect the Queen, but some of the things they were saying could have implications for the Queen since they were ambiguous as to who said and did what.

 

[nkereina]

Actually for what I can figure out, I think its The Duke of Gloucester's wife who they are alluding to. Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester is Queen Elizabeth's first cousin. His father was the younger brother of Queen Elizabeth's father. He and his wife Birgitte, Duchess of Gloucester used to live in Apartment 1 in Kensington Palace but they moved to a smaller residence in Kensington Palace complex called The Old Stables in 2019.

I saw this mentioned too, but what stake would they have to make such a bold remark? It feels like something that would come from someone that perceives his skin color as being problematic for them in the future (i.e. a future King). Also, if M&H clarified it wasn't said by Phillip or the Queen, why not clarify it didn't come from Charles too? Or perhaps just say it was said by an extended family member, which would leave people to consider a whole slew of possibilities.

 

[BadPinkTink]

I saw this mentioned too, but what stake would they have to make such a bold remark? It feels like something that would come from someone that perceives his skin color as being problematic for them in the future (i.e. a future King). Also, if M&H clarified it wasn't said by Phillip or the Queen, why not clarify it didn't come from Charles too? Or perhaps just say it was said by an extended family member, which would leave people to consider a whole slew of possibilities.

If this is the person they are talking about, I think it could be a number of reasons.
Having to downsize and move to a less prestigious residence in Kensington Palace
Having a "lesser" Royal chip on the shoulder attitude
Having old world out dated views which is typical of people in their generation but not seen as PC in 2021.

I'm all of us have some extended family member who is of the older generation and has outdated views. I'm sure all of us has an extended family member who has a chip on their shoulder about something and never fails to pass sly comments at family events.

Issues with extended family are something we all have and the Royal family is no different.

 

[design_mom]

I am not a royal watcher. (I have had to google a lot of the "other royals" in this this thread. But I know the "big things" that make the news.)

It sounds like Meghan was woefully unprepared for what royal life would be like. She kept blaming "them" for not supporting her, but it seemed like a lot of the blame should go to Harry. She had to Google the British National Anthem? Why didn't Harry teach it to her -- or at least give her a recording and let her know she needed to learn it? She was blindsided in the car on the way to meet the queen about the expectation to curtsy? Again, seems like Harry really dropped the ball, not "them." If Meghan thought she and Kate would be treated as "equals" then she was pretty naive (and again, Harry should have warned her because I don't think that's new. Did Sarah Ferguson ever have any good press? Again, not a royal-watcher, but I only remember the scandals, comments about her weight, etc.)

If she was in crisis and was denied mental health treatment, that's terrible. (And I can understand why someone in crisis, and in a newish situation, and in the middle of a big bureaucracy could have trouble advocating for herself. And I could totally see the powers that be saying "Do you really think it's THAT bad? The press will have a field day with this. Let's wait a while before we bring someone in from the outside. Maybe you'll feel better tomorrow.") But, again... it sounds like mental health is one of Harry's causes, and he's been through it before, and is willing to buck the system when necessary. Even if "they" wouldn't get her any help, why didn't he? I have to think that he also didn't think it was "that bad." (I'm not saying she's lying or that it WASN'T "that bad" -- but it seems that Harry should have been her first line of defense/advocate -- and it didn't sound like he was.)

Regarding racism being the the reason that Archie wasn't (or won't be?) made a prince, I wish we knew more about that. It does seem like they threw that bomb out there without much context.

If the royal protocol is that Harry's kids won't be eligible for princes/princesses titles till Charles ascends, and they're claiming he was denied at birth due to racism, then shame on then. I did not know the royal protocols before reading this thread, so I probably would have assumed that Harry's kids WOULD be princess/princesses at birth -- but that's me, and I'm not personally involved. Even if Meghan didn't know the protocol, certainly Harry should have, and should have set the expectations.)

However, if Charles has no intention of making Harry's kids princes/princesses [ever] and he waited till Meghan was pregnant to mention that, it sounds... bad. I have heard (even with my limited exposure) that Charles has wanted to shrink the monarchy although I had no idea how that would be accomplished. If that meant excluding Harry's children, it should have been discussed before Meghan was pregnant (before they were even seeing each other, really. Harry's been an "eligible bachelor" for some time now.) Since it apparently wasn't, and it happens to affect the first non-white members of the family, the optics are definitely not good regardless of the reasons behind the decision. (I can understand how it would feel racist, even if this had been Charles's unspoken plan regardless of who Harry married.) At minimum it would seem smarter for Charles to name all his current grandchildren as prince/princess when he ascends (per the current tradition,) then change the rules and make it clear that it applies to any future grandchildren/future generations.

 

[mom2rtk]

Yes, part of the family. Gayle was asking Oprah if they gave a name, and Oprah said they wouldn't confirm a name - just that it wasn't the Queen and it wasn't Phillip.

Was this part of the stuff the on CBS This Morning (I didn't see that). Family can be broad or narrow. Did they say immediate family?

You are right - the way they dropped these bombs and then left it dangling for people to make assumptions is pretty damaging. If you want to tell your side and air the dirty laundry of the royals, then give it all up or not at all. Harry seemed pretty adamant he didn't want to disrespect the Queen, but some of the things they were saying could have implications for the Queen since they were ambiguous as to who said and did what.

I'm still just shocked that they chose to do this the way they did. For this very reason.

Elizabeth has great genes, and I hope she lives as long as her mother (now more than ever!). But she could die tomorrow and Charles would take the throne....amid all of this? What a mess that could be. And if Harry cherishes his grandmum the way he professes, he should know that leaving the Monarch in such disarray is exactly what she doesn't want.

If it's Charles, name him. If it isn't? Then pulling in that inner circle with something from another relative really makes this even worse.

 

[Karin1984]

I saw this mentioned too, but what stake would they have to make such a bold remark? It feels like something that would come from someone that perceives his skin color as being problematic for them in the future (i.e. a future King). Also, if M&H clarified it wasn't said by Phillip or the Queen, why not clarify it didn't come from Charles too? Or perhaps just say it was said by an extended family member, which would leave people to consider a whole slew of possibilities.

My guess is, why she mentioned it, was to have ammunition for the future. It's the sword of Damocles. Whether it's true or not is not even relevant anymore. The threat they might say who it is probably enough to keep them within the family, and prevent the loss of the HRH. Other option is that it guarantees a lot of sympathy in the US, being it such a hot topic now.
They must have known that in no world would the Palace acknowledge it. If they had given a name, all they would say is that they would investigate it.

And I think that Harry said it was not the Queen or Phillip is mainly to exclude his grandparents of the speculations. He has to stay in the Queen's good book. Most people will think it's Charles, and I think his relationship with his father are bad enough already that he doesn't care to bring his father in a peculiar position. Or it's his revenge on his father.

 

[Disneylover99]

If she was in crisis and was denied mental health treatment, that's terrible. (And I can understand why someone in crisis, and in a newish situation, and in the middle of a big bureaucracy could have trouble advocating for herself. And I could totally see the powers that be saying "Do you really think it's THAT bad? The press will have a field day with this. Let's wait a while before we bring someone in from the outside. Maybe you'll feel better tomorrow.") But, again... it sounds like mental health is one of Harry's causes, and he's been through it before, and is willing to buck the system when necessary. Even if "they" wouldn't get her any help, why didn't he? I have to think that he also didn't think it was "that bad." (I'm not saying she's lying -- but it seems that Harry should have been her first line of defense/advocate -- and it didn't sound like he was.)

Yeah. I really think Harry needs to own up to this. Find some help for your wife. And it sounds like Meghan's mom is/was some kind of mental health social worker in the States. Did Harry or Meghan not think to call Doria?

 

[Karin1984]

I am not a royal watcher. (I have had to google a lot of the "other royals" in this this thread. But I know the "big things" that make the news.)

It sounds like Meghan was woefully unprepared for what royal life would be like. She kept blaming "them" for not supporting her, but it seemed like a lot of the blame should go to Harry. She had to Google the British National Anthem? Why didn't Harry teach it to her -- or at least give her a recording and let her know she needed to learn it? She was blindsided in the car on the way to meet the queen about the expectation to curtsy? Again, seems like Harry really dropped the ball, not "them." If Meghan thought she and Kate would be treated as "equals" then she was pretty naive (and again, Harry should have warned her because I don't think that's new. Did Sarah Ferguson ever have any good press? Again, not a royal-watcher, but I only remember the scandals, comments about her weight, etc.)

If she was in crisis and was denied mental health treatment, that's terrible. (And I can understand why someone in crisis, and in a newish situation, and in the middle of a big bureaucracy could have trouble advocating for herself. And I could totally see the powers that be saying "Do you really think it's THAT bad? The press will have a field day with this. Let's wait a while before we bring someone in from the outside. Maybe you'll feel better tomorrow.") But, again... it sounds like mental health is one of Harry's causes, and he's been through it before, and is willing to buck the system when necessary. Even if "they" wouldn't get her any help, why didn't he? I have to think that he also didn't think it was "that bad." (I'm not saying she's lying -- but it seems that Harry should have been her first line of defense/advocate -- and it didn't sound like he was.)

Regarding racism being the the reason that Archie wasn't (or won't be?) made a prince, I wish we knew more about that. It does seem like they threw that bomb out there without much context. If the royal protocol is that Harry's kids won't be princes/princesses till Charles ascends, and they're making the fact that he wasn't given the title at birth about racism, then shame on them. (And, again, I did not know the royal protocols before reading this thread, so I probably would have assumed that Harry's kids WOULD be princess/princesses... but even if Meghan didn't know the protocol, certainly Harry should have, and should have set the expectations.)

However, if they've already been told that Charles has no intention of making him a prince, and this was not mentioned till he was already conceived, then that certainly sounds "fishy." I have heard (even with my limited exposure) that Charles wanted to shrink the monarchy (although I had no idea how that would be accomplished.) However, if that meant excluding Harry's children, then that should have been discussed before Harry was expecting (or even engaged, really). Since it apparently wasn't, and it happens to affect the first non-completely-white members of the family, the optics are definitely not good regardless of the true reasons behind the decision. (I can understand how it would feel racist, even if this had been Charles's unspoken plan regardless of who Harry married.) At minimum it would seem smarter for Charles to name his current, living grandchildren as prince/princess per the tradition, then change the rules and make it clear that it applies to anyone going forward from that point.

Today in the newspaper the Sun there was an article about 'where was Harry': https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14289447/where-was-harry-as-meghan-struggled/
It's just very poor preparation on mainly Harry's part.

I was also thinking, she said the mental health problems were worst when she was pregnant. She must have had regular check ups with a doctor. Why didn't the doctor ask what was wrong? Isn't that part of a doctor's job that when a patient comes for a check, especially someone in the position like Meghan, to care for her physical AND mental health?

Archie wasn't made a prince because he is the great-grandson of the reigning monarch. Only the direct heirs are made prince/princess, the Queen updated the rule by not just having George as a prince, but also Charlotte.

 

[morgan98]

I am not a royal watcher. (I have had to google a lot of the "other royals" in this this thread. But I know the "big things" that make the news.)

It sounds like Meghan was woefully unprepared for what royal life would be like. She kept blaming "them" for not supporting her, but it seemed like a lot of the blame should go to Harry. She had to Google the British National Anthem? Why didn't Harry teach it to her -- or at least give her a recording and let her know she needed to learn it? She was blindsided in the car on the way to meet the queen about the expectation to curtsy? Again, seems like Harry really dropped the ball, not "them." If Meghan thought she and Kate would be treated as "equals" then she was pretty naive (and again, Harry should have warned her because I don't think that's new. Did Sarah Ferguson ever have any good press? Again, not a royal-watcher, but I only remember the scandals, comments about her weight, etc.)

If she was in crisis and was denied mental health treatment, that's terrible. (And I can understand why someone in crisis, and in a newish situation, and in the middle of a big bureaucracy could have trouble advocating for herself. And I could totally see the powers that be saying "Do you really think it's THAT bad? The press will have a field day with this. Let's wait a while before we bring someone in from the outside. Maybe you'll feel better tomorrow.") But, again... it sounds like mental health is one of Harry's causes, and he's been through it before, and is willing to buck the system when necessary. Even if "they" wouldn't get her any help, why didn't he? I have to think that he also didn't think it was "that bad." (I'm not saying she's lying -- but it seems that Harry should have been her first line of defense/advocate -- and it didn't sound like he was.)

Regarding racism being the the reason that Archie wasn't (or won't be?) made a prince, I wish we knew more about that. It does seem like they threw that bomb out there without much context. If the royal protocol is that Harry's kids won't be princes/princesses till Charles ascends, and they're making the fact that he wasn't given the title at birth about racism, then shame on them. (And, again, I did not know the royal protocols before reading this thread, so I probably would have assumed that Harry's kids WOULD be princess/princesses... but even if Meghan didn't know the protocol, certainly Harry should have, and should have set the expectations.)

However, if they've already been told that Charles has no intention of making him a prince, and this was not mentioned till he was already conceived, then that certainly sounds "fishy." I have heard (even with my limited exposure) that Charles wanted to shrink the monarchy (although I had no idea how that would be accomplished.) However, if that meant excluding Harry's children, then that should have been discussed before Harry was expecting (or even engaged, really). Since it apparently wasn't, and it happens to affect the first non-completely-white members of the family, the optics are definitely not good regardless of the true reasons behind the decision. (I can understand how it would feel racist, even if this had been Charles's unspoken plan regardless of who Harry married.) At minimum it would seem smarter for Charles to name his current, living grandchildren as prince/princess per the tradition, then change the rules and make it clear that it applies to anyone going forward from that point.

Quoting this because this pretty much summarizes my feelings as the days go on. I did not watch the entire interview, but it has been on every day this week while I am working out here at home. I do have some interest in the Royals, have been to London multiple times and find it all very interesting.

If there were some Royals really worried about the color of Archie's skin, then that is just plain wrong. And I feel for Meghan if she was suicidal, as that must be a horrible way to spend time being a newlywed and pregnant.

However, I think a lot of the issues stem from the fact that Meghan thought (and possibly Harry too) that they were going to get change things or get more attention that they received. Many of Meghan's complaints seem to be about not being treated equally Unfortunately, someone (Harry again) should have told her that is not happening. She did not marry the heir, she married the spare. I do not mean that to be derogatory as they could have led a great life like that, at least in my opinion. Like it or not, the monarchy does distinguish between those in line for the throne and those that are not. What I find interesting is that Harry benefited from being the spare most of his life in some respects as it appears he was allowed more freedom in finding his path, his behavior, etc than William. So it seems inconsistent to me that now that all comes as a surprise. But if Meghan was going to measure her status to that of Kate, she should have been told that there would be a difference.

Not completely sure about the optics around Harry being a Prince or not at birth, but it does not surprise me that William's children who are direct in line for the throne may have different titles. Again, this goes back to my first point that I do not think Meghan understood the monarchy. Maybe she thought she could help change it? That was not happening overnight.

I am a fairly pragmatic person by all accounts, so maybe that is why I find it somewhat interesting that they are surprised at how some of the events unfolded.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Prince Charles wanted to reduce the royal family to his sons and their children. Which means Harry and his kids would be royal until William became King and then Harry would no longer be considered royal as is done with several royal families in Europe. I think after this the best idea would be Charles give way to William because that would mean they could just say as the brother of the king he is no longer royal bye!

 

[snappy]

Yeah. I really think Harry needs to own up to this. Find some help for your wife. And it sounds like Meghan's mom is/was some kind of mental health social worker in the States. Did Harry or Meghan not think to call Doria?

Calling Doria apparently did not fit into their plan.

 

[snappy]

Prince Charles wanted to reduce the royal family to his sons and their children. Which means Harry and his kids would be royal until William became King and then Harry would no longer be considered royal as is done with several royal families in Europe. I think after this the best idea would be Charles give way to William because that would mean they could just say as the brother of the king he is no longer royal bye!

Interesting. Your scenario may end up the unintended consequence of M&H going public.

 

[TLSnell1981]

My guess is, why she mentioned it, was to have ammunition for the future. It's the sword of Damocles. Whether it's true or not is not even relevant anymore. The threat they might say who it is probably enough to keep them within the family, and prevent the loss of the HRH.
They must have known that in no world would the Palace acknowledge it. If they had given a name, all they would say is that they would investigate it.

And I think that Harry said it was not the Queen or Phillip is mainly to exclude his grandparents of the speculations. He has to stay in the Queen's good book. Most people will think it's Charles, and I think his relationship with his father are bad enough already that he doesn't care to bring his father in a peculiar position. Or it's his revenge on his father.

Again the comment was allegedly made the someone moved out of Kensington Palace to make room for H&M. There are quite a few royals living there. They intentionally left the statement vague to continue the discussion and finger pointing. Imo

Harry's mad at Charles over money. He's acting like a spoiled child.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Calling Doria apparently did not fit into their plan.

If that were my daughter and I was informed that things were that bad, I would not only have been on the next plane to London, I would‘ve been texting instructions to Harry the whole way there to keep her safe.

I’m thinking Doria would’ve done the same thing, had she known.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Actually for what I can figure out, I think its The Duke of Gloucester's wife who they are alluding to. Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester is Queen Elizabeth's first cousin. His father was the younger brother of Queen Elizabeth's father. He and his wife Birgitte, Duchess of Gloucester used to live in Apartment 1 in Kensington Palace but they moved to a smaller residence in Kensington Palace complex called The Old Stables in 2019.

Can you elaborate on why you think this?

 

[snappy]

Again the comment was allegedly made the someone moved out of Kensington Palace to make room for H&M. There are quite a few royals living there. They intentionally left the statement vague to continue the discussion and finger pointing. Imo

Harry's mad at Charles over money. He's acting like a spoiled child.

A vague statement with the threat of letting the other shoe to drop in the future. I see Oprah made a statement on network news either Monday or Tuesday am. The gift that keeps giving. . .

 

[mousefan73]

speculation on the news shows is that Meghan wanted to go to some "posh" in-home care. Hollywood style. Perhap fly back home to stay as some ranch place her hollywood friends recommended. So many are assuming this was not approved. I just cannot phathom that a medical expert could not be discretly been brought to her home. The Royals have their own staff of "crown" medical experts. the gyno Kate had was the same one most royals used.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Again the comment was allegedly made the someone moved out of Kensington Palace to make room for H&M.

Can you elaborate on why you think this?

Harry and Megan were offered Apartment 1 in Kensington Palace but turned it down. The Duke of Gloucester and his wife had been living in Apartment 1 for many years and moved out in 2019.

 

[mom2rtk]

Today in the newspaper the Sun there was an article about 'where was Harry': https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14289447/where-was-harry-as-meghan-struggled/
It's just very poor preparation on mainly Harry's part.

I was also thinking, she said the mental health problems were worst when she was pregnant. She must have had regular check ups with a doctor. Why didn't the doctor ask what was wrong? Isn't that part of a doctor's job that when a patient comes for a check, especially someone in the position like Meghan, to care for her physical AND mental health?

Archie wasn't made a prince because he is the great-grandson of the reigning monarch. Only the direct heirs are made prince/princess, the Queen updated the rule by not just having George as a prince, but also Charlotte.

All very valid question. Questions that need to be answered if you're trying to throw blame somewhere else.