Is it ok for spouse to go to lunch with co-worker of opposite sex?(Inspired by RIDISN

[pryncess527]

nm

 

[snarlingcoyote]

Just so I understand the situation...a male employee and a female employee are traveling together in a rental car and staying at the same hotel. But, at mealtimes, they cannot sit at the same table in a restaurant?

That is exactly the size of it.

 

[rigs32]

I have been working in my industry for almost a decade now. Used to be male dominated, but is becoming more evenly distributed. But I frequently see men with my level of experience being mentored by other more powerful men in ways that those senior men would *never* mentor women - golfing, drinks, meals. And when politics (in the general sense) comes into play, those male to male relationships open doors for those men that just aren't available to me. It's frustrating.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I have been working in my industry for almost a decade now. Used to be male dominated, but is becoming more evenly distributed. But I frequently see men with my level of experience being mentored by other more powerful men in ways that those senior men would *never* mentor women - golfing, drinks, meals. And when politics (in the general sense) comes into play, those male to male relationships open doors for those men that just aren't available to me. It's frustrating.

and therein lies the problem. I am sorry you are a victim of this

 

[morgan98]

and therein lies the problem. I am sorry you are a victim of this

I too do not golf, so sometimes a meal or a drink is the best "social" opportunity to be mentored over. My boss often has lunches with other partners (male and female) to discuss issues/concerns/performance is a bit of a less formal setting. Seems like saying no one on one meals would perhaps change the dynamic of the relationship. It would be especially awkward for him if he and his wife had such a rule because in our industry if would definitely make him look like he was favoring men over women. Also, as others have said, many times it is not appropriate to bring a third party to these meetings.

 

[luvsJack]

Folks, you are still trying to take something that is part of one person's life and fit it into another life. You can't put a square peg in a round hole. In MY line of work and in DH's line of work, it isn't a big deal. In DS's line of work or in DIL's it isn't a big deal. DS is on an oil rig in the middle of the ocean with a bunch of men. Who exactly is he holding back by not having a work lunch with a woman????

Me not having lunch with the science teacher isn't going to effect morgan98's job, it just isn't. You don't get to tell anyone that the way they conduct themselves or their marriage is wrong, just as no one gets to tell you the same thing.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

I have been working in my industry for almost a decade now. Used to be male dominated, but is becoming more evenly distributed. But I frequently see men with my level of experience being mentored by other more powerful men in ways that those senior men would *never* mentor women - golfing, drinks, meals. And when politics (in the general sense) comes into play, those male to male relationships open doors for those men that just aren't available to me. It's frustrating.

But in reality, it is these mentoring relationships that come into play.

And no matter what people think or say, mentoring someone is a personal choice that is made. You can't just throw two people together and expect one to mentor the other. Work history, education and even personalities come into play.

I'm sorry that you haven't found a good mentor. And I truly hope that you do. But there isn't anyone here that is holding you back.

How someone conducts their marriage is their own business.

 

[NHdisneylover]

LOL my husband doesn't golf either. He ends up offering to drive the cart when he feels he needs ot be there---golf and his back issues are not a good combination, though he never liekd it enough to buy clubs and play with the group even before that was an issue and good excuse.

Folks, you are still trying to take something that is part of one person's life and fit it into another life. You can't put a square peg in a round hole. In MY line of work and in DH's line of work, it isn't a big deal. In DS's line of work or in DIL's it isn't a big deal. DS is on an oil rig in the middle of the ocean with a bunch of men. Who exactly is he holding back by not having a work lunch with a woman????

Me not having lunch with the science teacher isn't going to effect morgan98's job, it just isn't. You don't get to tell anyone that the way they conduct themselves or their marriage is wrong, just as no one gets to tell you the same thing.

huh? the current discussion is baout the actual experiences of two posters who ARE left out of mentoing apparently due to their genders, in fields where it does matter. Who's still talking about you and your kids?

 

[NHdisneylover]

But in reality, it is these mentoring relationships that come into play.

And no matter what people think or say, mentoring someone is a personal choice that is made. You can't just throw two people together and expect one to mentor the other. Work history, education and even personalities come into play.

I'm sorry that you haven't found a good mentor. And I truly hope that you do. But there isn't anyone here that is holding you back.

How someone conducts their marriage is their own business.

If that spills over into their work and affects their performance in some way, it becomes work bussiness

 

[pryncess527]

Folks, you are still trying to take something that is part of one person's life and fit it into another life. You can't put a square peg in a round hole. In MY line of work and in DH's line of work, it isn't a big deal. In DS's line of work or in DIL's it isn't a big deal. DS is on an oil rig in the middle of the ocean with a bunch of men. Who exactly is he holding back by not having a work lunch with a woman????

Me not having lunch with the science teacher isn't going to effect morgan98's job, it just isn't. You don't get to tell anyone that the way they conduct themselves or their marriage is wrong, just as no one gets to tell you the same thing.

We aren't saying you, your DH, or your DS are holding anyone back. You've addressed how your work situation is different.

But for others, like Mike Pence (who i believe you cited as an example) there may be some very real consequences for other people.

 

[luvsJack]

That's questionable. He made it work for him, but many of us might wonder how his choices and policies might have led to the elevation of men over women in his administration, given his freedom to socialize with men -- exactly the concern we are trying to raise. Politics is precisely the kind of field where I can see his choices having a negative impact on highly qualified women around him.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/03/pences-gender-segregated-dinners/521286/

If this is not an issue for you and your job, wonderful! But that doesn't mean it does not negatively impact others with far different work situations.

How does what I do in my marriage negatively impact someone in a different work situations?

If a manager chooses not to elevate someone because of a lunch, something is wrong besides who has lunch with who.

 

[pryncess527]

How does what I do in my marriage negatively impact someone in a different work situations?

If a manager chooses not to elevate someone because of a lunch, something is wrong besides who has lunch with who.

You've made it clear that, for YOUR line of work, it doesn't. i don't think anyone is talking about you.

But for OTHERS in OTHER lines of work, it has an impact. Feel free to read the Atlantic article int he post of mine you quoted if you want to know how. It is quite clear, as other posters in this thread have been as well.

 

[luvsJack]

We aren't saying you, your DH, or your DS are holding anyone back. You've addressed how your work situation is different.

But for others, like Mike Pence (who i believe you cited as an example) there may be some very real consequences for other people.

You and others have repeatedly tried to convince me and others that we are wrong because of how it would impact someone in a different job.

 

[pryncess527]

You and others have repeatedly tried to convince me and others that we are wrong because of how it would impact someone in a different job.

No, I have not, even once, tried to convince you that how you and your husband act in your marriage is wrong. I've repeatedly made statements about not judging the relationships of otehrs.

I have, however, asked that people be THOUGHTFUL in how their choices may impact work relationships. You say yours are not impacted -- fine. I take you at your word. But that is not universally true for everyone, and we have provided examples how others are negatively impacted by similar decisions. I have not asked youto change, nor called you wrong. I have shared information in hopes that people will be THOUGHTFUL.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

If that spills over into their work and affects their performance in some way, it becomes work bussiness

But you and the poster are assuming that it is effecting their work.

It could be that the other people that are being mentored are being mentored for other reasons. Because when choosing someone to mentor sometimes the person looks at other aspects, like work history, education and personality.

Unless mentors are assigned or mentors have said outright, it can't be shown that it has effected their work.

 

[pryncess527]

But you and the poster are assuming that it is effecting their work.

It could be that the other people that are being mentored are being mentored for other reasons. Because when choosing someone to mentor sometimes the person looks at other aspects, like work history, education and personality.

Unless mentors are assigned or mentors have said outright, it can't be shown that it has effected their work.

How is she assuming when she said "IF that spills over" she did not declare that it DOES spill over.

Although, for the record, an article citing peer reviewed studies on the subject was also included. Is it so hard to acknowledge that, while it may not be an issue in your house/jobs, limiting contact of genders can have real consequences in other industries?

 

[NHdisneylover]

But you and the poster are assuming that it is effecting their work.

It could be that the other people that are being mentored are being mentored for other reasons. Because when choosing someone to mentor sometimes the person looks at other aspects, like work history, education and personality.

Unless mentors are assigned or mentors have said outright, it can't be shown that it has effected their work.

if there is a clear pattern of not mentoring women, or not mentoring certain minorities, etc then it can be assumed this will effect things. And if ther are men flat out saying they refuse to work individiúally with a woman, then YES; that is going to effect how the women are able to advance versus the men regarldess of other factors. SO, for example, Snarling Coyote's coworker who refused to dine alone with a female coworker and stated her gender was why---I think it could be pretty easy for someone to make a case that they are being denied advancement oppurtunity if their work is related to collaborting or learnign from him in ways typically done over a meal, etc and i would imagine HR wouldn't be ahppy about it and would explain that gender discrimination in the work place is illegal.

Like my husband in the example I gave a while back---he has the 12 people he works with to get them better trained to handle the individual issues. If he worked with the 10 male ones one on one so they learned and improved and refused to do the same with the two female ones---it WOULD prevent the women from leanring as much, especially since he creates teh training programs they are implementing. Since he really only ever sees any of these people while travelling and not at the same time, it would be possible the women would have no idea they were missing out on hours of instruction the men were getting and it woudl be possible their manages would have no idea either. But it would mean they'd be a lot less effective in their jobs than their male coutnerparts which would in turn reduce their chances of promotion. I am grateful that my husband would never mess with people's careers like that. I have no issue at all with him having dinner with anyone, but I would take issue with him limiting someone based on their gender.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

How is she assuming when she said "IF that spills over" she did not declare that it DOES spill over.

Although, for the record, an article citing peer reviewed studies on the subject was also included. Is it so hard to acknowledge that, while it may not be an issue in your house/jobs, limiting contact of genders can have real consequences in other industries?

The OP said that it was a problem. But it could be that she just doesn't qualify based on another reason. Like I said.

You also might want to notice, I haven't said anything about how my marriage works. I've only indicated that IF (funny that word is key again) my husband decides to not go to lunch. Or IF I decide. I haven't given any indication what we do.

 

[pryncess527]

The OP said that it was a problem. But it could be that she just doesn't qualify based on another reason. Like I said.

You also might want to notice, I haven't said anything about how my marriage works. I've only indicated that IF (funny that word is key again) my husband decides to not go to lunch. Or IF I decide. I haven't given any indication what we do.

I was using "you" in the general sense. I wasn't trying to make any claims about you. I'm not trying to make any claims about anyone on this board. I am, however, baffled that people refuse to acknowledge a well documented problem just because it doesn't apply to their marriage.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I was using "you" in the general sense. I wasn't trying to make any claims about you. I'm not trying to make any claims about anyone on this board. I am, however, baffled that people refuse to acknowledge a well documented problem just because it doesn't apply to their marriage.

I am equally baffled