Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

[Josh Hendy]

If you think that Universal's last five years have been a storm cloud looming on WDW's horizon ... consider the next five years. Enough new land for at least one entire park. Plus a big water/theme park. New and updated attractions seem to spill out of Uni like popcorn in a popper.

A lot of it is perception ... Uni isn't all that fast or prolific and Disney isn't all that slow or stingy. But the perception is, wow, one of these companies mostly wants to grow and the other one mostly wants to squeeze the lemon. I believe that there have been direct quotes from the CEOs which almost literally say that.

The storm clouds have blown up into a hurricane ... not threatening SS WDW ... but they're definitely going to sink SS Complacency.

Right now the competition between parks, lands, IP and rides is really heating up. You know what he next war will be? Competing on price. Uni was better value especially if you got the Orlando FlexTicket and took in Sea World and BG Tampa. But most people didn't buy it because of the attracting power of pixie dust versus whales and over-the-top coasters, and the relative difficulty of transportation.

Soon with four parks and three water parks within approximately the same footprint as WDW (I'm counting Seaworld in til Uni starts a fourth park) and assuming the quality and family appeal of all of them continue to grow, a lot more families are going to run the math and take a really hard look at the cost of Uni Your Way vs Magic (Kingdom and Some Other Parks) Your Way ... including hopping.

Who knows maybe co-opetition in the form of a super Orlando buster ticket is in the future.

I'm not sure if it will happen but I really hope that he hurricane will sink the SS "2 1/2 minute kiddie rides are rare and precious and need to be reserved months in advance" as well.

 

[rteetz]

In response to the OP. Yes! Parks are stagnant. What new attractions they are doing are anything but inovative. Resorts are slipping in maintenance and housekeeping. Upper management does nothing quickly. It will be a slow decline, but they have slipped far to much to fix without a HUGE investment property wide. And the resulting cost increases will kill them. DVC bailed them out last time but even that has hit it's limit.

You have yet to see what happens in Star Wars land so you can't say they aren't innovative. DVC hasn't hit its limit if it did they wouldn't keep building more.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

Everytime I see these subjects I think like Yogi Berra, "nobody goes to WDW anymore, it's just too crowded."

 

[VegasMike]

Indeed. Until it's finished I have no idea what's in store for Star Wars land. But cutting edge would be out of Disney's budget in light of current trends. As far as DVC , building more is a short term economic windfall. The profitability in the long term is still very much in question.

 

[disneyseniors]

Indeed. Until it's finished I have no idea what's in store for Star Wars land. But cutting edge would be out of Disney's budget in light of current trends. As far as DVC , building more is a short term economic windfall. The profitability in the long term is still very much in question.

Vegasmike I don't really have anything to ad, but I LOVE your avatar

 

[rteetz]

Indeed. Until it's finished I have no idea what's in store for Star Wars land. But cutting edge would be out of Disney's budget in light of current trends. As far as DVC , building more is a short term economic windfall. The profitability in the long term is still very much in question.

Well if Star Wars rumors turn out to be true I would think cutting edge stuff will be there and a good amount of it.

I think if Disney was worried about DVC they wouldn't keep building it. So far their hasn't been a big problem selling it as they want.

 

[Eoghann]

Well if Star Wars rumors turn out to be true I would think cutting edge stuff will be there and a good amount of it.

I think if Disney was worried about DVC they wouldn't keep building it. So far their hasn't been a big problem selling it as they want.

I think people on boards like these over-emphasize "cutting edge". Just because a ride system is cutting edge doesn't actually mean its any good. Rather what Disney needs to achieve with Star Wars land is make it engage people.

That's the real trick behind Harry Potter, not the kuka arms. The majority of what you see in Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade isn't even remotely cutting edge, but it is highly engaging. That's how you get away with a land that only has 1 ride...

 

[rteetz]

I think people on boards like these over-emphasize "cutting edge". Just because a ride system is cutting edge doesn't actually mean its any good. Rather what Disney needs to achieve with Star Wars land is make it engage people.

That's the real trick behind Harry Potter, not the kuka arms. The majority of what you see in Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade isn't even remotely cutting edge, but it is highly engaging. That's how you get away with a land that only has 1 ride...

Well luckily Star Wars will have 2 rides

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I think people on boards like these over-emphasize "cutting edge". Just because a ride system is cutting edge doesn't actually mean its any good. Rather what Disney needs to achieve with Star Wars land is make it engage people.

That's the real trick behind Harry Potter, not the kuka arms. The majority of what you see in Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade isn't even remotely cutting edge, but it is highly engaging. That's how you get away with a land that only has 1 ride...

A guy I work with just went to Universal for Christmas. I was asking him what his favorite part was and he said the Harry Potter area and when I asked him if he liked the rides he said "They were okay but we had more fun with the dragon and just taking in the fact that it was like we were in the movie." He even loved the feel of the people packed into the area because that's how it is in the books.

While I think people still go for the rides it's clear that theming is becoming almost as critical and that's where I really worry that they'll cheap out.

 

[DDLand]

While I think people still go for the rides it's clear that theming is becoming almost as critical and that's where I really worry that they'll cheap out.

Well if New Fantasyland is any indicator they probably won't cheap out on the theming. Rides? Well that's another story...

I say that in jest, I have full confidence that SW will blend both together. And Seven Dwarfs Mine Train is growing on me too.

 

[peg110]

Everytime I see these subjects I think like Yogi Berra, "nobody goes to WDW anymore, it's just too crowded."

Maybe it was the point of the message, (the irony that is) but Nobody goes and yet it's too crowded.

Funny thing is that the same can be said about most of the parks in Florida. I have yet to go to any of them and not encounter a significant amount of people. Granted, it might not be as busy as Disney Corporate offices want it to be, but for me, it's very busy.

 

[zebsterama]

I have two little Disney fans, and I've more or less converted my husband in that last decade. Both my kids would like to live at WDW. We own DVC, we go to WDW every year, sometimes more than once a year. Neither my kids nor my husband hover on message boards reading about how much hasn't changed, or hasn't changed fast enough. Yes, DH has been known to wonder "aren't they done with that yet?", but really, even going every year, WDW still has a lot to offer. And I still manage to plan something new for them to try every single trip.

MK has more than enough to entertain us. DS (age 10) will tell you that he does not care about the NFL additions at all, although in actuality he has enjoyed most of it (although he refuses to do ETwB.) DD (age 4) absolutely loves everything about NFL. Everything. The must do areas in MK for my kids are Adventureland and New Fantasyland.

DHS was actually on the "eh, skip it" list for us for several trips. The only thing both kids could and wanted to ride was TSSMM, and before FP+ we were never there early enough to get FPs. As of this year, they can both do Star Tours, too, which helps make it a more fun park for them. DS liked the Playhouse Disney/Disney Junior show when he was little, and now DD likes it, and they both like the VotLM. They both like the playground. That's about the list of the things the kids wanted to do. FP+ actually put DHS back on our list for our trips, but even so, it's a short day for us. This is the one park that I agree should be an embarrassment to Disney. I am so glad they have a new vision for it, and are going to pump a lot of money into it. It needs it desperately.

Epcot was my favorite park before I had kids. However, the Epcot with truly amazing food and plenty of non thrill rides of my memories is long gone. (I still miss Horizons and the World of Motion. I do not miss Body Wars, which inevitably made me sick.) The kids don't have the patience for an afternoon wandering through shops and looking at displays in WS. But they love "the Nemo pavilion" and both rides in the Land, and they'll put up with Ellen for dinosaurs, and they've come to accept that Mommy is going to make them go on Spaceship Earth every single time we go to Epcot. And, for some reason, they love the Grand Fiesta Three Cabelleros boat ride in Mexico, which no one ever talks about as an addition of the last decade, but is far more engaging than Rio del Tiempo. (Although the last times we rode it, my kids were the only kids around and EVERYONE else was drunk adults. Go figure.) They are both looking forward to the Frozen Maelstrom. Making them pick between FP+ for Frozen and Soarin' is going to be a nightmare, however. My husband and kids like Epcot. We still find more than enough to do. It certainly isn't the embarrassment that DHS is (except for Captain EO, my gosh, just get rid of it permanently), even if it could benefit from some updates. Honestly, if they would either add a new "country" with a ride, or put a solid new ride in any of the existing countries, and redo one of the currently defunct pavilions using the Inside Out characters, I think almost everyone would be happy. (Ok, they are never going to make almost everyone happy, who am I kidding? But it would please many people.)

Animal Kingdom is already on the right track. We're really looking forward to the new nighttime safari and show. We can't wait to see what they do with Pandora/ Avatar. (The movie was fine. The setting is gorgeous. I am sure it is going to be a beautiful addition to the park.) I still wish they'd add Australia, or even the Americas, as a new land. My daughter wishes that the Pocahontas meet and greet would get FP+ because I won't wait in line with her for 45 minutes outside in the heat.

WDW is still wonderful to my family. I'm not someone who is happy about every decision they'd made about the parks. I'm not someone who thinks they can do no wrong. However, I do think they provide a solid experience overall, and that many of the projects currently underway will be good additions.

That said, we went to Universal for the first time a year ago. After hearing about how they weren't good for young kids for so long, we decided to try it out anyway, because we wanted to see Harry Potter. My kids LOVED Universal. (They did not love being woken at dawn to get dragged at a breakneck pace through a park they'd never seen to get in line for ollivanders, and then forbidden journey (which neither of them were going to ride.)) Universal may not have been good for young kids at some time in the past, but that is just not true any more. My kids liked their 2 days at Universal as much as WDW. DS doesn't like thrill rides, DD is too little for many thrill rides, and they still had an amazing time. Honestly, people who are telling you there is nothing at either Universal Studios park for kids have clearly not taken kids. The Barney, Dr Seuss, Curious George, and American Tail areas are NOT aimed at adults, let me assure you. Both Universal Parks were great. My kids want to go back, and we're tentatively planning to next year.

Disney lost two days of our business last year, and they're probably losing two days of it next year. That's a pattern that's going to continue to be true. Every year or every other year, we'll probably spend a couple of days at Universal. That's a function of how good Universal is now, not a function of "how bad" Disney is. It isn't that Disney has lost our business, its that Universal has won a bit of it.

This sums it up for me.

We've been to Disney on a number of 10 night (on sight) stays every few years. Two years ago we spent 9 nights at HRH, and Universal - awesome!

This year we are going back to Disney - see my trip tag line below. The trips now are Universal and Disney moving forward. That (at least in my family) would have been unheard of a few years a go.

Now Disney gets my money, but not all of it - and certainly not as much as they used to.

Disney is not going away, but they're not the defacto gold standard that they used to be in my heart.

Too many posters on this thread talk about profit margins, business cases, and shareholder interests when speaking about Disney.

Walt was about making money for sure, but I believe if he saw what his vision turned into today - he'd be spinning in his grave.

 

[Spacedog1975]

I don't think the new land acquisition threatens Disney's very existence.
I also don't think Walt is "spinning in his grave".

If Universal breaks ground on a new park, Disney Parks has the power to respond if they see fit (or not).
If they felt it was now time for a 5th Gate, they could do it if they wanted to.

For now, I think they see the value of the forthcoming expansions, and without engaging a new gate, they will have plenty of new in the next 5 years to draw crowds.

In the end, Orlando wins. In the end, theme park fans win.

 

[Eoghann]

Too many posters on this thread talk about profit margins, business cases, and shareholder interests when speaking about Disney.

Walt was about making money for sure, but I believe if he saw what his vision turned into today - he'd be spinning in his grave.

People talk about it because that's what drives the company and thus the parks. Walt can spin like a centrifuge and it won't change anything. He's dead, his family has no say in how the company runs and his vision is not the basis of their decision making. How he ran it is an interesting historical story, but it has no impact on what happens now.

 

[MommaBerd]

A guy I work with just went to Universal for Christmas. I was asking him what his favorite part was and he said the Harry Potter area and when I asked him if he liked the rides he said "They were okay but we had more fun with the dragon and just taking in the fact that it was like we were in the movie." He even loved the feel of the people packed into the area because that's how it is in the books.

While I think people still go for the rides it's clear that theming is becoming almost as critical and that's where I really worry that they'll cheap out.

DH and I took a short trip to DL/CA in October - first visit for both of us. We enjoyed so many things, but what did we like best? Hands down it was CarsLand! My DH kept remarking how "it was just like walking into the movie"! The restaurants, the character interactions, the scenery

Disney is obviously capable of high-level theming. And look at the pictures of the Pandora mountains! I have high hopes for these new lands, and I don't think they're unfounded. Just like with TFA, I think we're going to be pleasantly blown away.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I think that Walt would be really angry about a lot of things. Consider just one park ...

How long has that paperboy been broken? What? Five years?

That energy adventure thing ... half the people were sleeping and the rest looked flat out bored. I'm sure that the field of energy can be more interesting than that.

A whole pavilion closed? No plans to do anything? Get me Roy on the phone! Ok then get me Roy Jr! Get me someone, right now!

Hey ... this pavilion is called "Imagination" ... not "Time Waster". Love the fountains but everything from there on in is a big disappointment.

I like a good cocktail too but at times it looks like the whole back half of this park is nothing but a glorified pub crawl. And in the.middle of all that you're building a princess ride?

Let's go over the park theming, branding and marketing on Monday, first thing. Bring the guy who's been greenlighting new rides and kiboshing the maintenance and upgrades too. I want see him.

If you don't want to see me and don't care what I would think, then DON'T NAME THE RESORT AFTER ME. It's either Walt's World or it ain't. Ok? See you Monday.

 

[VegasMike]

Vegasmike I don't really have anything to ad, but I LOVE your avatar

Thanks. I've always been a bit "Squirrely"

 

[Spacedog1975]

People talk about it because that's what drives the company and thus the parks. Walt can spin like a centrifuge and it won't change anything. He's dead, his family has no say in how the company runs and his vision is not the basis of their decision making. How he ran it is an interesting historical story, but it has no impact on what happens now.

There is plenty of Walt that remains, both in terms of legacy attractions and company policies (pixie dust, cast behavior, etc). That said Disney as a corporation does not stop to think "WWWD" very often, if at all.

This said, there needs to be balance. They need a Frank Wells to every Eisner. I don't know that Iger has a Frank. In today's corporate/stock driven climate, when considering the bottom line, you rarely consider the long game. If it were me, everything would be about the long game.

 

[Spacedog1975]

If you don't want to see me and don't care what I would think, then DON'T NAME THE RESORT AFTER ME. It's either Walt's World or it ain't. Ok? See you Monday.

I agreed with your individual points up until here. It's not like they are going to rebrand the corporation or the resort. The naming of the resort happened long before anyone in charge now had any capacity to decide on anything.

That said, Epcot needs a planning committee, stat. Seasonal events will always drive traffic, and World Showcase is what it is. Future World needs serious love.

 

[Eoghann]

There is plenty of Walt that remains, both in terms of legacy attractions and company policies (pixie dust, cast behavior, etc). That said Disney as a corporation does not stop to think "WWWD" very often, if at all.

This said, there needs to be balance. They need a Frank Wells to every Eisner. I don't know that Iger has a Frank. In today's corporate/stock driven climate, when considering the bottom line, you rarely consider the long game. If it were me, everything would be about the long game.

I could go on a day long rant about what is wrong with corporate culture in this country and the damage that an obsession with share price and the quarterly earnings call is doing to it, but that won't change anything. When discussing what may happen you have to deal with reality otherwise it's just fantasy park building.