Is anyone getting as turned off as I am?

[ArwenMarie]

As much as I hate to say it, EPCOT's turned a corner with this.

They really haven't had a strategic focus for a very long time - and that's both sides of the Lake.

Closures, refurbs, and in-place replacements (M:S) have been the name of the game.

Even Captain EO was resurrected - really, what more needs to be said? It's the standard bearer for how little strategic focus has been placed on EPCOT for so, so long.

Now, we've until sometime in 2016 to go with just Soarin' and TT vying for in demand capacity.

Fun times....

Yeah, I don't get the point of Epcot right now. Well, I guess I should say, I don't know why my family should spend a day's admission to get in anymore.

If it's just a place to hold festivals and make big bucks on drinks and tiny pieces of food, that's cool, but then admission should be free. People say DHS is a half-day park, but I think Epcot is in far worse shape.

 

[PrincessV]

It would take far too many words to note all the things I miss about how WDW used to be - so I will just list the biggest change, imo.

The customer service used to be ASTONISHING! I think if you never experienced it, it is hard to explain what it was like.

THIS! Under Eisner, guest interaction and service was #1. Period. I read a great book on management back then that talked about how Disney created an environment in which both staff and guests willingly took steps to make the overall feeling positive. From repainting things overnight so nothing ever looked worn, to every CM of every level, including top brass, stopping to pick up trash. Greeting guests with smiles. Never, ever discussing personal matters "on stage." Going the extra mile to ensure guest satisfaction. And all of that trickled down to the guest level; the dad that witnessed a WDW suit picking up a wrapper to put in a trash can was far more likely to throw away his own trash appropriately. When CMs treat guests with dignity and respect, guests tend to treat each other that way, too. All of that has nearly disappeared - and that's simply poor management.

 

[MinnieMe129]

My problem with WDW is the lack of flexiblity now. I dont mind planning at all but you are now going to charge me for my ADR. I would have no problem if it was a true no show charge, but you are going to charge me bc we wake up and decide that since it is raining that AK is not a good park and Epcot is better, you are going to charge me $40 to cancel my ADR.

Yes, this. We just got back from a 9 day visit with our three year old. We had a lunch ADR on a day we were very tired. After 4 days of sheer exhaustion (i.e fits) our daughter FINALLY took a nap at the hotel. We felt forced to wake her up to make the reservation because we didn't want to be charged $30 for not showing up. Needless to say, it was not a pleasant meal.

For a place geared toward children and families there is very little flexibility.

My husband decided half way through the trip we would not be returning as a family for next years vacation (we went last year as well, and DD and I went twice this year with my parents). DH has a very stressful, fast paced, over scheduled job and he said a week at Disney was just as much anxiety as work. Too much planning/scheduling/stress for vacation.

(Not to mention it was $70 for us to eat breakfast at our hotel. DD was charged $14.99 for eating a bowl of fruit loops...and she didn't even use milk! )

 

[cakebaker]

THIS! Under Eisner, guest interaction and service was #1. Period. I read a great book on management back then that talked about how Disney created an environment in which both staff and guests willingly took steps to make the overall feeling positive. From repainting things overnight so nothing ever looked worn, to every CM of every level, including top brass, stopping to pick up trash. Greeting guests with smiles. Never, ever discussing personal matters "on stage." Going the extra mile to ensure guest satisfaction. And all of that trickled down to the guest level; the dad that witnessed a WDW suit picking up a wrapper to put in a trash can was far more likely to throw away his own trash appropriately. When CMs treat guests with dignity and respect, guests tend to treat each other that way, too. All of that has nearly disappeared - and that's simply poor management.

You and Mickeynutty have hit my sore spot-

Oh my, the memories of what guest service used to be makes me sad. The parks used to shine , bathrooms were sparkling and I never saw a drop of trash anywhere- near pristine condition no matter how busy.

It all comes from the top down and apparently they don't have those high standards anymore. I sometimes wonder will it ever be that way again. I miss Eisner and his standards for park operations.

I remember once, we were stopped in the parks by a "suit"- he was intrigued by the T-Shirt my teenage daughter was wearing, it was from Disneyland- a POC shirt. He asked her where she got it, she told him and he thought for a moment and said to himself- Why don't WE have that- we have to get that. Then he kind of realized where he was and said thanks, wished us a magical day and we were on our way.

Here was obviously a higher up of some kind- you can tell, they just have a look about them - who noticed a kid wearing a Disney t-shirt and knew it wasn't carried in HIS park and he wanted to know how to get it. A lousy t-shirt.

No one pays that kind of attention anymore.

Sigh....

 

[Davey Jones II]

THIS! Under Eisner, guest interaction and service was #1. Period. I read a great book on management back then that talked about how Disney created an environment in which both staff and guests willingly took steps to make the overall feeling positive. From repainting things overnight so nothing ever looked worn, to every CM of every level, including top brass, stopping to pick up trash. Greeting guests with smiles. Never, ever discussing personal matters "on stage." Going the extra mile to ensure guest satisfaction. And all of that trickled down to the guest level; the dad that witnessed a WDW suit picking up a wrapper to put in a trash can was far more likely to throw away his own trash appropriately. When CMs treat guests with dignity and respect, guests tend to treat each other that way, too. All of that has nearly disappeared - and that's simply poor management.

I think it's also due to the crowding situation. It's nearly impossible to offer that same level of individual service and attention when there are a lot more people crowding the park. And a lot more of those people are self-centered, with a "me first" attitude. CMs just have a lot more on their plates than ever before (while still being badly underpaid!).

 

[Disneychick75]

I think it's also due to the crowding situation. It's nearly impossible to offer that same level of individual service and attention when there are a lot more people crowding the park. And a lot more of those people are self-centered, with a "me first" attitude. CMs just have a lot more on their plates than ever before (while still being badly underpaid!).

Disney World has been crowded almost every day since it opened. We've gone since the year after it opened. PrincessV is right. Service has gone way down since Iger took over.
Some guests might have a "me first" attitude but it seems so do some CMs.

 

[maxiesmom]

I think it's also due to the crowding situation. It's nearly impossible to offer that same level of individual service and attention when there are a lot more people crowding the park. And a lot more of those people are self-centered, with a "me first" attitude. CMs just have a lot more on their plates than ever before (while still being badly underpaid!).

I think it is that in part. I also think people in general have become less caring and less courteous. I work retail, and have for years. People are a lot less respectful of their surroundings, and have more of the attitude that as the customer they can be as rude and messy as they want to be.

I also think when they cut the training CMs get way down a few years ago, you could tell right away in the parks.

 

[magicbob]

One thing that never changes that I wish would change is people telling me that I just don't like change when I don't like a specific change. Can we change that, or do you just not like change?

Disney not perfect but there are reasons why they have done things they have done but you cannot satisfy everyone. A perfect example for me is the introduction of Starbucks. For years one of the huge complaints has been how bad the coffee is at DW. So (after way too many years) what does Disney do? They bring in the most successful coffee co in world but some people are not happy.

Bringing in Starbucks is not necessarily a bad thing, but what people don't like is that they took OUT the bakery to make room for it. They could have added Starbucks coffee to the parks without scrapping the bakery. Similar issue with Maelstrom/Frozen. Some of us wonder why something has to "go" to make room for these additions when there are SO many other places that desperately needed new attractions could be added.

ADD. Don't REPLACE.

 

[Suvadoo]

I think a big problem with both the parks and resorts is the way the annual budget is divvied up. Each park or hotel manager has their own allotment and they can spend it on whatever they want.

Unfortunately, new attractions and resort decorations do no generate as much revenue as hard ticket events, and new restaurants. So managers choose things that will increase revenue. It's a short term reward and yes I think it's an Iger initiative.

 

[mom2rtk]

ADD. Don't REPLACE.

I'm putting that on a t-shirt.

 

[maxiesmom]

To be fair, it isn't as if a giant Starbucks was plopped down in the middle of Main Street. It still looks old time-y, with a very small Starbucks sign.

The only time I was in was early, and they only offered Starbucks pastry. According to everything Disney was saying at the time, they would be bringing out Disney goodies later on in the day. Does that not happen?

 

[cakebaker]

I think it's also due to the crowding situation. It's nearly impossible to offer that same level of individual service and attention when there are a lot more people crowding the park. And a lot more of those people are self-centered, with a "me first" attitude. CMs just have a lot more on their plates than ever before (while still being badly underpaid!).

It's not always wall to wall people- We've been there during Christmas and in the fall- the highest crowds and the lowest- it's not due to crowd levels or it would get better when it wasn't crowded.

I just refuse to believe the decline in service is due to the decline in the quality of guests- It's because management doesn't demand as high a level of service as they used to. They could do it still, they just choose not to.

Examples of poor training are everywhere. When I have a CM at POP tell me that a specific building is all preferred view ( it's not) and doesn't know where the 50 ft tall (that's a guess ) Baloo character is on resort property ( by the main pool, look out the doors of the main building and you can see it)- while we're standing at check-in no less, someone isn't focusing on training.

Disney wasn't great because their guests were great. They were great because they chose to be.

 

[Lucky4me]

I'm turned off because planning a vacation should not be like solving a Rubik's cube. I get a headache just thinking about all the planning that needs to go into a week at WDW.


I also have noticed the parks not as clean as in years past. Quite shocking when you were so used to them being spotless. They have been cutting corners there and it shows.

 

[PrincessV]

Here was obviously a higher up of some kind- you can tell, they just have a look about them - who noticed a kid wearing a Disney t-shirt and knew it wasn't carried in HIS park and he wanted to know how to get it. A lousy t-shirt.

Yep, I remember seeing that type of thing often, too. The desire to always be looking for more and better ways to improve the guest experience was a priority in every job position.

I think it's also due to the crowding situation. It's nearly impossible to offer that same level of individual service and attention when there are a lot more people crowding the park. And a lot more of those people are self-centered, with a "me first" attitude. CMs just have a lot more on their plates than ever before (while still being badly underpaid!).

I'd give you this, but for the fact that the only times in recent years I see service approximating what it was in the 90s... is during peak crowd times. Christmas. Easter. July 4th. More suits are out and about, parks are fully staffed, there's an air of care and concern that, I swear, seems to vanish when the crowds thin.

However, you nailed it with the pay issue. As a local-ish Floridian, I hear about it first-hand from friends and acquaintances: WDW doesn't pay as well as other theme parks in the area, they've reduced the majority of workers to part-time to avoid giving benefits, while asking them to work huge amounts of hours during busy times, and they aren't being appreciated in tangible ways. All of that filters down to the guest experience, ultimately.

I just refuse to believe the decline in service is due to the decline in the quality of guests- It's because management doesn't demand as high a level of service as they used to. They could do it still, they just choose not to.

Yep, exactly.

I'm turned off because planning a vacation should not be like solving a Rubik's cube.

Hands down, the best description of the "new" WDW yet!

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I'll tell you what's been annoying me, and that's people hoarding ADRs. I get why they're doing it- you have to schedule them so far in advance that you may not necessarily have your plans set in stone. On the other hand though, you've got multiple reservations that other people want and can't get that you're not going to use. I'm subscribed to one of the ADR cancellation threads (trying to get BOG), and someone the other day cancelled no less than 3 different morning ADRs for one of the character meals- that were all scheduled on the same day but at different times. That's ridiculous.

Since they instituted the CC hold on ADR's I've found a lot less hoarding going on and a lot more availability.

I agree completely.

Also I find it odd that people seem to act like the 3 rides you choose are the only ones you get to do...You can still ride whatever else you want even if you don't have a fast pass for it.

Repeat after me three times. The SB lines are longer. The SB lines are longer. The SB lines are longer.

This is absolutely what happened to us a few times. We did our 3 and out both at MK and DHS. Epcot and AK had other things to do besides shopping for 3 hours which IMHO is boring as every shop has just about the same items.

How about the FP+ lines is now about the same length as the old SB line at SE?

:

ADD. Don't REPLACE.

Unless you are talking about accomadations.

Has ride capacity risen at the same rate as resorts and DVC?

Count me in as someone who won't be taking 5-6 trips a year. If I want to sleep in and lounge around the pool. I'll go to South Beach.

If I want to eat well even if it is pricey, I'll go to NYC. The food quality has gone down so much I can't even think of anyplace other than Yachtsman I enjoyed. And taking away the wonderful mushroom risotto away from the $46 mushroom filet at Le Cellier?! I just ordered an appetizer for dinner thanks.

Very sad that WDW is removing some of the entertainment included in admission at Epcot. I guess they couldn't figure out a way to charge for it or make it a hard ticket event.

We loved our Universal trip and won't be going to FL again without splitting our stay and spending some of the time there.

 

[ktlm]

Haven't read this whole thread, but had an interesting conversation with a relative last night, who was there in July. She is more on the newbie end of the scale. She likes Disney, but is not a fanatic. She is a sporadic WDW traveler, might go and then be several years before she goes back. She has been more regularly and has been a few times in recent years as she is in her 50s and has grandkids and has been taking the grandkids or going with their families.

Her take on after going with one of her grandkid families for her recent trip was. "Disneyworld wasn't that fun this trip". This was an exact quote, the rest is as best I can remember. "We've always had a great time in the past, but this time it was a hassle before we even got there. We all had to spend days figuring out where we wanted to be when and negotiating for FP+ because kids had different priorities when it came to things we knew would have long lines, and with the tiers and limits, some of the adults had to give up FP+ for the rides we really wanted to we could split and take the kids on the ones they each wanted. So, it was kind of a battle a couple of months before the trip. The old days we would just get there, FP the ride we knew would have the longest lines, and then take turns FPing what each kid and/or adult wanted. We never had an issue. We all stayed together unless a kid was too short, and then an adult would stay with that kid and when the others came back could use their FP and go- and if the short kid or kid who didn't want to ride was 3 or over we would have grabbed a FP for them, so someone could go again with the person who stayed behind"

"When we got there this trip it just wasn't as fun. We were constantly watching the clock. I felt like every minute of every day was planned. Someone always had to be somewhere for the next FP+. Instead of staying together, we were split up a lot of the time because we did not have all the same FP+ because the kids had different priorities.We used to all go together on everything, and the only time someone stayed back was if a kid wasn't tall enough, and they would find something to do in the area and we would switch off and most of those rides were FP rides, so everyone got to ride with FP. There were favorite rides I didn't get to ride this trip because, I had to get a different FP+ to take one of the kids somewhere, and then the standby line for what I wanted was too long and no one wanted to wait for me to ride it, or wanted to be split any longer. All this stuff being planned out is too much hassle and takes the fun out of it".

Made me sad for her. I'm not sure she will be going back anytime soon, and she was really looking forward to this trip.


I also heard another perspective last week from a total newbie looking at their 1st WDW trip who was totally overwhelmed and contacted me asking for help. "Can you explain to me all this FP+ stuff". I did. "So you are telling me that I have to figure out what we want most to ride over 2 months in advance, and if it is something really popular, that I have to be on my computer at midnight eastern trying to book it, or else we might have to wait an hour or possibly even more for it". Yes, you will still get to ride if you want, you just might have a long wait for things like TSMM and 7DMT, SM, Splash in the afternoon etc. You might be able to find a time the lines are lower and get lucky and not have to wait that long. "But, I don't even know what my kids are going to like or want to do since we've never been there. Why don't they make everyone wait and do this FP thing in the park the day they are there. They could put a machine by the ride that spits out paper times to tell you when to come back to the ride". Me- after I quit laughing uncontrollably- "Yes they used to have it like that, but they changed it". Her: "Why the heck would they change something like that to this crazy mess? Now, I know my kids are going to want to see A&E and you are saying that even if I get on the computer in the middle of the night, it is possible that we don't get FP+ for A&E or 7 Dwarves, so I should keep messing on this website every day until our trip after that trying to get them". "Yep- you can still get in line for them, and you should keep an eye on the line and try to hit it when it isn't huge. Later at night might be good?" "Okay, yeah but other people will have FP+ and it isn't fair because the only reason they have FP+ and I don't just because they are coming in a day or two earlier than us. It isn't even for everyone". Me: "No it really isn't. At least you are booking 60 days out, people who don't stay onsite have to wait until 30 days out, so it is worse for them. At least book something, and then you don't have to use them if you get there and don't want to, and you might have some luck changing them while you are there. We didn't, but some people say they do?" Her: "You're kidding me, people staying on site like us get twice as long to book, but people that don't get stuck with our leftovers, and even with all those poor people getting stuck behind, I'm probably going to have issues getting A&E?" Me: "Yes, you might have issues, but you probably will be able to get everything except A&E and 7DMT at any time of day you want at 60 days out without hassle". Her "Yeah it's not going to be without hassle because my kids are going to have WWII over which FP+ we are going to pick because they like totally different things. I can see that coming already. Maybe I should just cancel our trip and we should do something else. I could handle the ADR thing you helped me with a while back, but this FP+ thing is totally overwhelming and I'm not sure I want to deal with it". Me: "WDW is still great. The kids are going to love it, and you probably will too". "Her, yeah but now I'm just so mad about the unfairness of this whole deal, and this whole going through all the rides and things and picking them in advance is just too overwhelming".


Just some perspectives on how some non-disers see this thing. We don't have the kid fighting issue as we have an only, but I still had to give up RNRC, which is one of my favorites, our last trip because TSMM is imporant to DD, and I like it too. Normally, DH and I would pull 2 FP for RNRC once our time let us after get got our first thing TSMM FP. Then, we would take turns riding it, as DD won't get near it (and before she was tall enough). Our last trip the standby and single rider were way to long for us to just take turns getting in there, so without being able to get FP, we just didn't get to ride it. We had a trip to DL/CA this summer, after we had done a FP+ trip. We realized just how great it was not to have to deal with that mess on our DL/CA trip. So much more relaxed before and during. We were back to going with the flow, and pulling FPs as needed when they suited us. It was wonderful. I miss those days at WDW!

 

[MouseClubMama]

​

I'm turned off because planning a vacation should not be like solving a Rubik's cube. I get a headache just thinking about all the planning that needs to go into a week at WDW.


I also have noticed the parks not as clean as in years past. Quite shocking when you were so used to them being spotless. They have been cutting corners there and it shows.

Extreme planning is gonna kill me...I was always terrible with Rubik's cube And yes, cleaning is just not the same. I recall waking up at the resort in the middle of the night and watching mousekeeping dusting door and window frames, and groundskeepers and painters wearing headlamps to get the job done.Once upon a time Disney guests were 'protected' from the effort that it took to make the magic happen. Now it is not uncommon to find dust in our resort rooms, and to see trash floating around in the parks. When Disney lowered their standards they burst our bubbles.

 

[magicbob]

To be fair, it isn't as if a giant Starbucks was plopped down in the middle of Main Street. It still looks old time-y, with a very small Starbucks sign.

Sure, they may have kept the theming of Main Street intact (which is a good thing), but the fact remains that the bakery (which was beloved by many) was replaced by it. I think most people don't really object to Starbucks... just to the fact that the bakery was a casualty in the process of bringing Starbucks in. Same issue being debated now concerning Maelstom/Frozen.

 

[RedSox68]

Yeah, I get the feeling that they just don't know what to do with Epcot. IMHO, it was conceptually flawed from day one, although I never visited in the early years (I hear that some of the yesteryear attractions, like Horizons, were great).

I just made our trip schedule, and I've got Epcot slated for 1.5 days out of eight. World Showcase takes up half the park (or so it seems) and soon will be down to two attractions (Three Cabaleros and The American Adventure). The park is huge and burns a lot of shoe leather, but we never spend a great deal of time there. Educational? Thanks anyway. I may not be a kid anymore, but I still go to WDW to have fun.

Reportedly, DHS will be revitalized for years to come with a Star Wars land. AK will get Avatar. MK is endlessly popular. It looks like Epcot will be the also-ran at WDW, unless they can figure out what the heck to do with it. At the very least, the park needs one new killer E Ticket.

Very well put. It's a shame -- World Showcase was our number one favorite place. The last time we went -- 5 years ago -- we had to admit that suddenly it seemed stale and unchanged. I certainly think they jumped the gun by thinking that cancelling four very popular musical acts with no immediate replacements would change it for the better

We went there in the 80's and it was awesome -- and all the countries weren't even built yet but we fell in love. I think their flower and garden show and the food and wine fest truly add an extra spark for those few weeks. Wish they could infuse a permanent new idea.

 

[maxiesmom]

Sure, they may have kept the theming of Main Street intact (which is a good thing), but the fact remains that the bakery (which was beloved by many) was replaced by it. I think most people don't really object to Starbucks... just to the fact that the bakery was a casualty in the process of bringing Starbucks in. Same issue being debated now concerning Maelstom/Frozen.

But is it really? As I asked before, did Disney go back on their promise to bring out the old bakery items later in the day?