Is anyone as frustrated as me, due to no 2008DDP info yet?????

[disgram]

I have read this entire thread and have decided that I will continue with the pre-paid dining plan. Will I save money, probubly not. Will it be more convienent in that I won't have to carry lots of extra money and/or creditcards, yes. We did the silver plan when it first came out and we didn't save a whole lot. But the convience was worth the plan.
I try to get to WDW every year. I have been getting the DDP each year since it started and, for me, it is ok.
As for staying onsite, you bet! I am at WDW and want it 24/7 while I am there!

 

[DCDisney]

. It would be nice not to have to worry about what you are ordering and be able to enjoy a nice meal that you wouldn't normally be able to afford.

I agree it was nice not to ever look at prices but if the changes happen and I realize that if we order an entree less than $20 we'll be loosing money I'm not going to feel very happy. I do tend to order steak or fish which tend to be pricey but even on those days I think we'd only come out about $5 ahead which doesn't make it worth it potentially losing money every other day just to not look at prices. Heck, I could buy a WDW gift card to use for TS meals and just not look at prices and spend much less than DDP. It's just getting past the mentality of liking the DDP where now it it just financially really doesn't work unless you want to do all TS meals as dinner with one of the more expensive entrees. That's just too limiting for us.

Yvonne

 

[Cruiser1969]

Remember: it's all just guessing until the glossy brochure shows up in an AAA office near you!

Wait a minute . . . isn't there someone out there who has a friend whose mother is cousins with a guy whose daughter's best friend works at the coffee shop across the street from the printing shop that does all the Disney brochures (sigh) and just maybe she can sneak a peek at the glossy brochure, before it's actually officially released, and then report to us here on the DIS?

 

[solferino]

Wait a minute . . . isn't there someone out there who has a friend whose mother is cousins with a guy whose daughter's best friend works at the coffee shop across the street from the printing shop that does all the Disney brochures (sigh) and just maybe she can sneak a peek at the glossy brochure, before it's actually officially released, and then report to us here on the DIS?

But of course there has to be. We're just not fortunate enough to have them posting here.

 

[JimMIA]

I also don't think that the "loyal" or frequent visitors to the world should feel slighted as the majority of Disney guests can not afford to go multiple times per year or even once a year, it is more like once every 2 or 3 years. Just becasue we can not go as often as you doen't mean we are not intitled to the same benifits as the more frequent visitors.

I agree with you 100%. I wasn't saying you shouldn't get equal treatment. I was saying that Disney runs the risk of reducing revenue from some of their best customers.

 

[suffolkprincess]

I loved the fact that everything was prepaid. I didn't have to worry about what I was ordering and how much it cost. We didn't save a ton of money on it but I liked the convenience. .

AMEN!

The first thought I had was what a bummer it would be to suddenly have to keep track of receipts and a budget on our Disney vacation, and to need to carry cash. We probably saved something on DDP, but where there weren't savings, there was convenience. I LOVE the tip being included and have a very very hard time believing that the servers are making less money with 80-90% of their tables tipping 18% on three course meals. Now, they probably don't like having their tips included in their paychecks (and I am imagining that that was how it worked with DDp tips) because they want to dodge taxes, but still and all, getting rid of the included tip is a real bummer, and not just for "savings."

 

[paulh]

have read thread throught to this point,
my opinions are thet the high $ assoated with the uk is that virgin are gready.They droped the ddp last year as disney wouldent let then price in more profit for themselfs.
They only offered it again as disney pushed the free option.
So you cant read too much into the usa priceing from Mr Bransons firm trying to profit from it.
I am looking forward to this aug where were both paying for ddp and have it free.Will look forward to ordering as much food as posible and the tip being taken care of.
Next year back to of site dinning (have missed my bloomin onnion)and a few CS meals
Will posably spend less next year as usaly only have app or desert not both
Who will lose out on my money,disney.Who will gain Outback,Smokey bones,Charleys steak house and chick-fill-a and publix(buy our desert from there)
IMHO disney are lossing money on the ddp(think its stated in accounts)so in a way there trying to phase it out
Have enjoyed the ddp when we have used it and might only use it again if it was offerd free,but with the tips removed unsure
Paulh

 

[faberj]

AMEN!

The first thought I had was what a bummer it would be to suddenly have to keep track of receipts and a budget on our Disney vacation, and to need to carry cash. We probably saved something on DDP, but where there weren't savings, there was convenience. I LOVE the tip being included and have a very very hard time believing that the servers are making less money with 80-90% of their tables tipping 18% on three course meals. Now, they probably don't like having their tips included in their paychecks (and I am imagining that that was how it worked with DDp tips) because they want to dodge taxes, but still and all, getting rid of the included tip is a real bummer, and not just for "savings."

I am not sure what the laws are in FL, but in WI you have to claim you tips to the government and if you don't you better hope you never get audited.

 

[faberj]

I agree with you 100%. I wasn't saying you shouldn't get equal treatment. I was saying that Disney runs the risk of reducing revenue from some of their best customers.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. This whole thing just frustates me. I am a huge disney fan (my DH says freak) and I get very excited about my trips to the world. I have been planning for over a year now reading these boards on a regualr basis (Disney should be a religion). DH and I have been reading tons of dining reviews and looking over meus on places we might want to try (not to try and get the most for our buck), but just different places. I had to pay for myself out of pocket last year when we were at Disney (DH was attending a convention, so his meals were paid for and I could not get the dining plan because of that). Anyway we ate a lot of CS and we did eat at some TS locations. I liked it a lot better when we were on our honeymoon on the silver plan and did not have to worry about figuring out tips (even though I tended to leave a little extra, can't help it I used to waitress), it just made it less stressful and felt carefree to enjoy my vacation.

 

[chrismb22]

Hey,

with these POSSIBLE changes, does anyone know if the dining plan changes will be brought out when the package rates come out? Did they do the dining plan at the same time last year?

Just curious

 

[Nancyg56]

Well, if they're really loyal, then there may not be much for Disney to worry about.

Bicker- there is "loyal to Disney so I'll stay on Disney property, buy all of my meals there and only visit Disney parks" and then there is "loyal to Disney so I'll visit the parks but rent a car and have some meals elsewhere because part of the incentive to spend all of my vacation dollars is diminished, still love Mickey, though".

I think that most people are like my family, we have discovered that we love Disney, love to stay on property and use ME, love the DDP because it is so convenient, and stay in the parks because when we pay Disney prices we don't leave to visit anywhere else. If the benefits do not really outweigh the deficits we may think about staying off site and visiting other central Fl attractions. I wonder if we are the folks Disney may find they need to worry about.

 

[faberj]

I agree it was nice not to ever look at prices but if the changes happen and I realize that if we order an entree less than $20 we'll be loosing money I'm not going to feel very happy. I do tend to order steak or fish which tend to be pricey but even on those days I think we'd only come out about $5 ahead which doesn't make it worth it potentially losing money every other day just to not look at prices. Heck, I could buy a WDW gift card to use for TS meals and just not look at prices and spend much less than DDP. It's just getting past the mentality of liking the DDP where now it it just financially really doesn't work unless you want to do all TS meals as dinner with one of the more expensive entrees. That's just too limiting for us.

Yvonne

Where can you buy a WDW gift card??? I live in WI and would want to purchase it before our trip next Dec.

 

[Mad4Dizne]

When I ran the numbers of what the prices would be with and without DDP; I did an option where the tips were not included and the additional cost for us would be at least $50+. If they do make any changes, especially the removal of the tips and possibly the starter, it will just make more financial sense to pay out of pocket and not get the plan. Now we always do at least one TS per day, but we might not always get appy and dessert, so in the long run we might end up saving more. It'll still be interesting to see what happens. I suspect many people will be canceling their ADRs and doing a few more offsite/CS variations if the plan has substantial changes.
Lewis-thank-you very much for the tip about the party size....I'll be making necessary changes to our ADRs.

 

[suffolkprincess]

I am not sure what the laws are in FL, but in WI you have to claim you tips to the government and if you don't you better hope you never get audited.

It has been awhile, but the last time I did payroll for servers (three years ago) this is the way that it worked and I am pretty sure that this is fairly universal--

1) servers make a wage that is often less than the set federal minimum, and always less than their "goal" wage-- so it could be $2.15 or it could be $5.00 or even $7.00, but the idea is that the wage paid for just being there is less than their actual compensation is intended to be.

2) In Florida, as of 2006, employers of Tipped employees such as servers may count tips received as part of the hourly wage, but tipped employees must be paid a direct wage in an amount equal to the state minimum wage of $6.40 minus $3.02 (called the “tip credit”). The bottom line is that tipped employees must be paid a direct hourly wage of at least $3.38 starting January 1, 2006.

3) In order to make sure that employees are making the minimum wage, employers of tipped employees must have the servers report their tips.

4) In lieu of actually counting/ reporting the actual tips, many employers have a practice of assuming that the servers will make a certain percentage of sales in tips, and so what gets reported for payroll purposes (for both employee and employer taxes as well as minimum wage compliance) is a percentage of sales. I think that generally, states establish accetpable guidelines for what percentage of sales should be reported; I couldn't find anything concrete on FL but I know that in VA, employers can get away with requiring 8% of sales to be reported as tips and if "charged tips" which the employer has direct reporting knowledge of come to 8% or MORE of sales, then that is the number used to determine if, during that shift, the employee made minimum wage AND how much should be paid in payroll taxes, federal and state withholding, FICA, etc. In some places there is not an established threshold like 8%, and so states and/ or the Department of Labor have gone after employers and looked at their books to see if in fact they could justify claiming such a small percentage of sales. Sometimes the state/ DOL is motivated by a Fair Labor Standards Act claim (servers saying that they are not making minimum wage) but more often the state is going after employers paying too little payroll taxes (and, by extension, employees are paying too little, as well.) That was a hot topic in payroll accounting a few years ago and right about that time we stopped relying on tips for compensation of employees, so I might not be 100% up to speed-- but that is the basics.

SO: a server, by these practices, could quite possibly get by for years with unclaimed income, because they are claiming the amount of tips considered acceptable (8-10% of sales) but are actually earning more (15-20% of their sales.) Most do. AGAIN: some places did crack down on this practice, and I can't determine how strict FL is, but in VA if you were a server working all tables with automatically included 18% tips, and got those tips disbursed to you thru regular payroll, you would end up taking home less money than if you worked for all cash tips and got to claim 8% of sales.

So, the point is that the Disney servers are probably motivated on some level by the fact that they are making less money in reality (might be more on paper, though) and so they would rather take their chances on cash tips therefore they wanted to negotiate with Disney to stop including the tips in the DDP.

 

[Lewisc]

A normal tip for good service is 15-18%. The guest count is combined and the automatic gratuity will be added even if you ask for separate checks and even if you sit in separate tables.

I wouldn't play games just so you can stiff a waiter. If you have 6 guests on your dining card you'll probably be stuck with the 18% gratuity even if you make an ADR of 4 and another ADR of 2 for the same meal. If you're going with another family you'll probably want a table of 6 or more. I think 18% is probably a little high for a buffet but is it worth the scheming, and not having your group together, to save $1-$2 per head?

Lewis-thank-you very much for the tip about the party size....I'll be making necessary changes to our ADRs.

 

[bicker]

I was saying that Disney runs the risk of reducing revenue from some of their best customers.

Or runs the risk of increasing profits from some of their best customers. One or the other. We really don't know.

 

[bicker]

Bicker- there is "loyal to Disney so I'll stay on Disney property, buy all of my meals there and only visit Disney parks" and then there is "loyal to Disney so I'll visit the parks but rent a car and have some meals elsewhere because part of the incentive to spend all of my vacation dollars is diminished, still love Mickey, though".

Indeed, and Disney had better keep the two separate in their mind, and recognize the great value that that first group represents. That's not to say that they should ignore the rest, but we have to accept that that the purchasing behaviors of that first group can substantially trump the purchasing behaviors of that second group. We don't know, but Disney almost surely does, so we can make a very good guess about the reality based on the decisions Disney makes.

 

[Lewisc]

There have read some reports, not sure if it was just internet gibberish, that the "best customers" aren't customers that come back twice (or more) a year. The "best customers" are the ones that only make one or two Disney trips. Those customers spend a lot more $$$ on souvenirs. At least 10 years ago one source said the average Disney visitor, not the average DIS member makes one or two trips to WDW during their lifetime and those customers don't care if they run up their credit cards for a once in a lifetime trip.

The repeat customers, such as members of DIS, tend to know the money saving tricks more then the one time visitor.

Assume the rumors regarding the 2008 plan turn out to be true.
Many DIS members said the plan "provides too much food". Disney dropped the appetizer. Some DIS members said waiters were pushing desserts. Other DIS were concerned servers aren't motivated to give DDP guests good service. Disney seems to be dropping the tip. Other DIS described how to use the snack credit to pay for breakfast. It sounds like Disney may be cutting back the snack options.

I agree with you 100%. I wasn't saying you shouldn't get equal treatment. I was saying that Disney runs the risk of reducing revenue from some of their best customers.

 

[englishrose47]

Is anyone really sure this is going to happen and when or is it just another rumor .Has anyone spoken to Disney about it!I think I might forget DDp and eat lunches at a couple of restaaurants and just cs the rest! If lots of others do this as I think they will the restaurants are going to hurt big time but CS will be booming!! Basically they are making a TS like a cs!!

 

[bicker]

People have talked to Disney about it, and the only official word from Disney is that there is no official word from Disney yet.

People will tell you that they are sure it will happen. Use that information at your own risk.

Even with these changes, TS are nothing like CS. TS offers far more service, better food overall, etc.